Just now, Bob Long said:

 

UCP policy I guess?

 

 

yikes. That would feel quite hostile to me. 

Yeah JK was still the premier when they allowed all that to happen early in 2022 they allowed it. I'm going to be perfectly honest with you man. I don't hear anything about covid unless I come in this thread. I don't know if you want to say the tail of two provinces but honestly I never hear anything about it. Radio, people, church, anywhere. Never hear anything about it. If there's the odd person in a mask, which I can't even remember the last time I seen somebody wear a mask. Generally, the conversation I hear is that they're likely sick with something.

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

no but she has been sympathetic to people that e.g., choose not to be vaccinated and still want to go work in a public setting. So that gets people's backs up. 

 

If people want to make choices that effect them individually, thats great, but when someone says I won't wear a mask, and I'm going to come sit beside you in a movie theatre or restaurant, e.g., yeah people get pissed because now that individual choice is being forced on other people. 

So couple things here. Alberta allowed  unvaccinated people to work in all fields before she became the premiere. Secondly, I can't speak to British Columbia but from what I've seen in Alberta people get more bothered if somebody sits beside them with a mask on as the assumption is they're likely sick.

2 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

exactly. For some reason, my  last two posts were combined, so it seems I was quoting two different posts. My brother in law is one of those that medicates online, that to me is how distrust in the medical field has grown. His answer is just youtube it. 

I remember years ago I said to my doctor I seen online it could be cancer. He told me don't go online. Everything is cancer!

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't understand why people equate access to knowledge they aren't trained to assess, with actual medical experience. I guess this is what drives a lot of the stuff we see online now. 

 

It doesn't matter that you can find a paper on medline if you're not trained to understand it. 

 

its a reaction to the nutters that harass people that have got a vaccine, or choose to wear masks. 

The premier has never done that. In fact, she said shortly after she was elected. If people want to wear masks they can but they won't be forced to.

So the UN is calling on the Israelis to stop killing children. One would think the UN wouldn't have to say that to a country like Israel..

But I'm sure it's all fake videos and photos of burnt kids...

14 hours ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Braid: UCP's public-health policy trumpets individualism over common good

 

https://calgaryherald.com/opinion/columnists/braid-25

11 hours ago, Johngould21 said:

What else do you expect?

We seem to have a thread full of you guys one upping each other by bragging about getting another covid shot, but I actually agree with what the premier had to say here. Every other vaccine people just take and don't jump into the internet world to brag about how often they are going in. Who cares if she's vaccinated or not. That's nobody's business but hers and her doctors.

this is something I should talk about with my doctor and not media.”

7 minutes ago, the destroyer of worlds said:

What gets me is that TRUMP can't even really campaign on a major success of his administration.

 

Operation Warp Speed.

 

Whenever he brings up vaccines during his rallies, there are audible boos.  I know for sure it happened in a rally in Alabama, and another time when he shared the stage with Papa Bear Bill O'Reilly.  

It should be a slam dunk for him, but because of how many QAnon, tinfoil hatters are in team MAGA, it rarely gets mentioned.

You know, just a couple weeks ago I was reading a story and of course it came from anonymous sources so I have no idea if it's accurate or if anybody else is covered it. And admittedly I don't really follow too much news, especially down in the states anymore, but apparently they were saying he was quite close to death when he had covid-19.

1 minute ago, Johngould21 said:

Putin’s vaccine, would you take it? China’s? The people in Hong Kong weren’t taking the vaccine made in China, as many had very bad reactions. My wife’s cousin lives in HK, and she didn’t trust it. Her husband is a gynaecologist, and neither did he.
In Alberta those politicians were Jason Kenney’s cabinet ministers, one resigned no?

So considering I didn't take any coronavirus vaccine, I think you can make your mind up that I didn't really trust any of them. Secondly, what you are saying about Alberta again your lumping in conservatives but you aren't wrong. There was a bunch of Alberta politicians that were flying around, but again, the health minister in Ottawa who is a liberal was flying back and forth to British Columbia so it wasn't just a conservative thing. All party members were violating the rules. If you don't want to admit the facts, there's no point of having this conversation. Also, we are kind of getting off the topic I was trying to have which was how people seem to be turning away from vaccination rather than moving towards it and I think the booster numbers are a telltale sign of that.

3 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

Evidence is required first before a government can accuse another of malfeasance. 
 

In this case, it has to be irrefutable, I reckon. 

Well, I don't want to derail this thread but as a Canadian I'm sure you can understand why I would be skeptical of that response.

2 minutes ago, Satchmo said:

I have never worked in health care but still understood how messages changed as knowledge grew. 

 

I agree that a few social distancing decisions were ill timed and/or a bit sketchy.

 

Still, it must have been bloody hard work for those in health care and government.  This was a novel (meaning brand new) virus.  I give them all high passing grades.

 

I know what novel means just because I live in Alberta hey..

My wife is in healthcare and yes I will give them passing grades but I will also recognize the message wasn't delivered well and you are right it was new. They were struggling. They were changing but it doesn't change the point people started asking themselves. This doesn't make sense. So if they are doing that that means the message they are hearing isn't making sense or it isn't being delivered well in my opinion anyways.

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

actually I think it does. He'll do anything to divide the US, and covid disinformation on twitter from Russia was a major issue.

 

That sputnik vaccine was trash though. 

Okay, admittedly maybe I'm missing something but I remember seeing Putin sitting at like 40 ft long tables and would never meet with even as closest ministers or whatever they call them over there because of fear of covid. Sure. One can say Trump or balsorano were down playing it but I certainly didn't think Putin was from all the photos and videos I seen. Even today he's hesitant to get close to people

2 minutes ago, Sharpshooter said:

No one is blaming ‘everything’ on Russia. 
 

Personally, I don’t put anything past Putin. 
 

However, evidence needs to link the two together, for me, but again any information about the possibility of the link isn’t terrible in and of itself. 

 

Either it can be corroborated or it can’t be. Wait and see. 
 

 

I agree with your point here but I mean this conflict goes a lot longer than since Putin has been president. I do believe if there was even an ounce of suspicion that they were behind it, the United States would be running with that story left right and center as with the Ukrainians. Weather we like it or not we have to remember Putin and Russia are also allies of Israel Or used to be.

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

oh for sure. I had to check multiple sources at times, having to deal with elderly parents during this, as well as my family. 

 

What did/does worry me though is the equivalence that seems to have emerged between information from someone like Dr. Henry, and someone's Facebook group. Thats really concerning. And then there's all the Trump-Fauci stuff and all the other strange shit that came with that.

 

I think people like Putin and other groups that spread disinformation are having a good laugh tbh. By sowing so much disinformation he has really helped to divide politics in the US and to a large degree up here. 

 

I guess I'd ask someone that was hesitant, why? what would Dr. Henry e.g., have to gain by providing advice? what would some other political leader or group have to gain by making someone doubt information? 

 

I can understand if a person looked at the covid risk numbers, then looked at the vaccine risk, still wasn't comfortable and still said you know what I'll just be a shut in and deal with it that way. 

 

What I can't understand are the people that got militant about hassling people who did get vaccinated, I mean why do that?

Thanks! I think that was a great post. I do agree with you and I tell everybody that somewhat of what I call a conspiracy theorist about it. Why is it that every leader on the planet had lockdowns was wanting vaccines because Putin doesn't get along with the US. Canada doesn't get along with Iran. China doesn't get along with the US. India doesn't get along with China. You got my point right? Why would everybody be doing the same thing if it wasn't real that's how I look at it. 

But really my point I'm trying to make and I won't go back and forth on it is just a concern that this virus had such a low death rate and nobody trusts health professionals or government anymore. What happens when we get the big one that kills 10 or 20% and people don't get vaccinated?

3 minutes ago, Johngould21 said:

At the first outset, the goalposts were moving quickly. Not one Country in the Western World reacted to the virus the way they should have, and that's if there was any type of a binder to work from. No one had one! Mix in the tRumps of the world, the Bolassarno's, the British PM whose name escapes me, Putin, the denial from China that they didn't want to share with the world. 

I was proud of the job that Trudeau federally, Horgan and Dix Provincially did for us in Canada. Our health minister and top doctor couldn't have done more, with the TV questions, video conferences with the opposition health critic, who was coordinating Interior health. People ask what would a Conservative gov't under Harper, Scheer, PP, or any of the recent CPC leaders have done. Look what Jason Kenney did to Alberta during that time. He didn't want to shut anything down. Thus, we get the Trucker Convoy idiots.

I do think you're lumping all conservatives together and that doesn't help your argument. Boris Johnson was very pro lockdowns. It's just like our politicians here. He himself violated all the rules. But the same thing with the health minister federally she was flying back and forth to Vancouver Island. All parties had members that were flying traveling going to different countries. It's ridiculous and then they told everybody stay home. This is how bad it is. Get vaccinated. This is how bad it is. You can't blame people for not trusting government. 

And your Vladimir Putin comment doesn't even make sense that guy still today is paranoid of coronavirus. In fact, I think it was Russia that had the first vaccine made.

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yeah thats such a sad example too. People can really get hurt by that drug, and for what? not doing a usual diet? (not counting the folks that actually need it)

 

I understand what they were trying to do. I think they feared people rejecting self quarantine outright so tried to come up with some ideas on the fly to allow some things. It was easy to get lost in it. 

But you work in health care and have for much of your career. So for the rest of the folks that don't you can understand the confusion I would think?

1 minute ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Perhaps young people don't realize how vaccines have saved lives.  we older people defiantly know.

Oh well.

So do we let all the young people die? Doesn't sound like a model for a successful country moving forward..

My point is they need to explain it better and do it in a way where the story isn't constantly changing or make it clear to people about the story may constantly change. 

One would have thought a global pandemic would have brought the understanding of vaccines closer to home. However, it's done the opposite in my opinion and it's pushed people away from vaccines.

2 minutes ago, Darius said:

I’ve thought about the Egyptian angle in all this. Haven’t they basically locked in the Palestinians on their side of the Gaza border? 

To be honest, I have no idea. I just know that a Jewish invasion and potential conquering of Arab land will only lead to thousands if not millions of deaths.

1 minute ago, The Lock said:

 

I know you don't want to have a conversation here about it, but at least read this article. Al Jazeera tends to be a very fair source when it comes to just reporting facts: https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/10/12/russia-israel-hamas

 

It's easy to just laugh and point and say "it's just people claiming everything's Russia's fault". However, you have to at least know there's a good chance there's a lot more to it than that. Chances are, you don't know the things that these people claiming it's Russia's fault know and there's nothing wrong with that; however, if you just suddenly start laughing at them in this manner... it's not much different than people from BC laughing at Albertans for some things.

I will check it out. But yeah, I don't want to derail this thread.

4 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think one thing you need to remember though is health data can (and usually does) change over time. As these things evolve, health professionals learn more and better ways of adapting. Just because there were changes to the messaging, it doesn't mean there was a mistake made. As they learned more, they can refine the messaging. 

 

Responsible health professionals will adjust based on the evidence. 

And I think what you're saying is very compelling. However, do you think the average citizen is aware of this? So maybe that should be part of the message. Hey be on board. Things may change from day to day or month to month. I just know that I've heard from a number of people that have said they would never trust another vaccine again because they were told get it and they wouldn't be locked down. That wasn't true. They were told they wouldn't get coronavirus. That wasn't true. My point is just try and get people to understand the importance of it. Does that mean maybe teach it in school? I mean vaccination has saved how many lives over the decades, but yet I don't think the average person is aware of any of this. Admittedly, I don't think I was pre 2020 and I'm married to a healthcare professional so what does that tell you. Either I'm dumb or she doesn't deliver the message very well

Just now, Darius said:

i have no doubt this has happened as it happened in numerous other places in the region post WW1

 

imho Hamas and the state sponsors do not want peace - its in their “constitution” to wipe out Israel.  How, in your opinion, do the Palestinians rid themselves of Hamas?  This is a mandatory prerequisite to move forward imho. 

Maybe they need liberation from an Arab Nation like say Egypt? I mean it's never going to work if the Israelis try to liberate Palestine they hate the Jewish people.

30 minutes ago, The Arrogant Worms said:

Because people look for studies that validate their opinion.

That's a fair point for both sides to be Perfectly honest. Government sure didn't do any good trying to roll it out by constantly changing the stories behind it. To be perfectly honest, I think governments and medical professionals need to do a better job at explaining things because when the big one actually hits, I'm fearful nobody will trust them and won't take a vaccine and it could lead to billions dying. 

7 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

I've actually seen it happen where some have changed. Never say never. Some people are just harder to convince than others.

 

Being perfectly honest here: a thread like this where they'd like get ganged up on.. probably isn't the way to convince a lot of them.

You know what I'm seeing a lot is those that are vaccinated, changing their minds and saying they won't do it again. So like I said earlier I think it has to be explained to people better and stick to one story, not the constantly changing stories.

21 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

The problem with this way of thinking is that there's actual motives for Russia. Russia wants badly for the rest of the world to shift eyes away from Ukraine. Also, think about Russia's involvement in the region: Armenia, Syria, Iran, etc. It would only make sense that Palestine would make that list as Israel a US friend. And this doesn't even go into the evidence gradually building up about it.

 

I'd even go further and argue that that cold war you mention... it never fully went away. It might have left a bit in the 90's, but you just have to look at how Putin's tried to manipulate so many neighboring countries (Georgia, Ukraine, Moldova, the counties I mentioned earlier, etc) to see the same sort of intelligence operations being performed against the west by Russia. Conversely, we're likely to have intelligence operations against Russia as well in modern times.

I'm not going to have this argument, especially in this thread. I would think that israeli or American intelligence would love to pounce on this if it were there. Not only that, when you mentioned Israel is America's friend, they are also Russia's friend. So again I'm not having this conversation in this thread cuz I get it. Everything is russia's fault. They are such a powerful nation and control everything lol

40 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

They certainly have something to gain by diverting Western attention towards Israel.  They also gave a history of meddling in conflicts in Africa. Not sure why you'd doubt that they'd stoop to this level considering their barbaric regime.

36 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I guess the guys in the video just studied in russia and learned the language and then randomly decided in the high pressure situation to use that language. Of course, makes perfect sense  

34 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

I honestly had my suspicions even before you posted yours, but had no source other than my own guess.  Russia really wants to avoid Israel deciding to strike the Iranian drone factories.

32 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

There are several other pieces of information that make sense but unsubstantiated at the moment - October 7th wasn't selected randomly. It's a combination of 2 dates - 50th anniversary of Yom Kippur war and guess whose birthday?

But yet not a word from the Israeli government about it. Don't you think it would be wise of them to point out this evidence? 

But yes, I'm sure ones suspicion coupled with a YouTube video should be compelling enough.

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

OK lets not go too far with this. No one did anything out of generosity. 

Sorry, compassion.

Oh FFS! This is like living through the cold war. Blame everything on Russia. 

10 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

That’s a legitimate argument. It certainly came at a time when it could make a difference but overall I’ve never been a fan of bailing out those who are too big to fail. Low interest loans or the like maybe…

 

Here’s one you may like. I hated the ‘grocery rebate’ that the government handed out. Of course it helped people that needed it but in reality it was just subsidizing the grocery industry while they were overcharging consumers. I would have been ok with it if it was tied to some action by big grocery.

So I didn't get any handouts so it's not as if I'm going to take a position one way or the other. But I would agree with you that the solution is just to get the gouging under control not to give people money because they can't afford the groceries because that isn't solving anything and it isn't sustainable. As far as bailouts and handouts I mean I do agree with you. I don't necessarily agree with them as well. I do think people need to recognize. For example, war hippie goes on and on about how we shouldn't have subsidies for oil and gas companies except what I think a few of you guys forget is that most of those subsidies are going directly into investing in newer and greener technologies for the future.

Just look at what the Trudeau government did with Volkswagen. That was the worst possible deal in the history of making deals with auto companies. Volkswagen completely played us! Bottom line though doesn't matter which party it is. They bail out businesses. The list goes on and on. Even Barack Obama thought it was a great idea to bail out the auto industry.

Generally speaking it's to save jobs but what stings about it all Is we find ourselves saying but look how much money they have Why should we give any money to them. I agree with that sentiment, but admittedly it would be hard to look at people knowing they're going to lose their jobs.

I will say one last thing. We see time and time again. People come on here and post how the government should be investing in green technologies for the future. Why should any of my money be invested in that? If it's a successful business model, why does it need our money? These other corporations they use billions of their own dollars or investor dollars to create their businesses and yet the environmentalists want taxpayers to fund the businesses they support.

It's a never-ending argument.