HarbularyBattery

20 minutes ago, IBatch said:

What the heck Demelo done that has moved the needle?  Just curious.    Myers career is >>> then his.    Would we want a QHs Myers pairing?   Nope.    Dillon would be a QHs Schenn deal which is ok.  

Demelo has been a reliable top-4 stay at home shutdown defenseman for one of the best defense corps in the whole league

myers was much better this year than previous years, but hes the chaos giraffe for a reason

demelo is most often described as "reliable", sounds kinda perfect 

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

not me, even if we struggle a bit we can always pick up a winger at the TDL. With that d group we're also really going to dominate play so I like our chances. 

we do have some pretty good offensive guys who may make the jump next year

Podkolzin, Bains, Raty, Karlsson should all be in the running for bottom6 spots, and all have proven to have decent hands

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

we can afford it by moving Mik and Garly, and it would be worth it. I know people have fallen in love with Garly, and for good reason, but to make this kind of improvement on d you have to go for it and fill in the wings with some of the kids or UFAs. 

 

 

id be pretty concerned about getting any offense from our bottom 6 with garland gone

idk maybe they try reuniting hoglander/aman/karlsson as our 3rd line, they had some magic in the ahl together

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Think cap percentage not dollars.  6% of the cap is just fine for a 5th D with our teams make-up.   His left leg weighs as much as QHs and Hronek together.     We saw how easily the regular season went once they figured them out, playoffs yikes.   QHs was creamed.   At one point Tochett started to play Z with QHs for some shifts.    QHs/Hronek together didn't work anymore.   In the regular season.   Teams figured them out. 

hronek has gotta be on the second pair i think

we need to be able to move the puck up the ice for at least 45 mins

problem is who do you play hughes with? id argue you now need to go get someone else, and thats going to be pricey

hughes-demelo

zadorov-hronek

soucy-myers

is a great set up but doubt we can afford

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'll go further, imagine an injury or two. 

thats probably the logic in having 2x additional top4 LDs in soucy and zadorov

we have to keep hronek though or someone in his profile, we wont get anywhere with only 1 defenseman that can move the puck up the ice

6 minutes ago, IBatch said:

It's a scale of overpay.    His UFA value without taxes or anything, is set at 5.25 x 4.      Who's going to replace him?  Dillon?  The Dickinson plus age of rough and tumble UFAs who really has nothing  else to prove?   Nah.   Plus someone else will likely overpay for him.     The higher you go, the more the overpay.    Hronek.   Yikes.   8 x 8 that's scary as fuck. 

 

Every year the CDC goes wild over the X-box UFA game.  Like it's at all close to that easy.   32 teams.  Why us?  One of the worst taxed teams in the league.   Zadorov actually wants to be here.   Not sure why that's not valued.   It's not just the 13 games either.  The team was completely in the mud when Soucy went down.   Until Z came on board.

zadorov at 5m is probably ok value for us but damn does it leave us in a tough spot to improve elsewhere

On 6/15/2024 at 3:31 PM, cripplereh said:

If we can get more cap room I would get Genz and Toff.

 

But I am dreaming as that will not happen.

 

One is worth a shot,maybe bigger trade to get another great player or D.

 

Think we need a lot of work to get to the big show.Tje D needs 3 to 4 and Hronek and Zad seem to want to much.Myers wants to stay for less and I am ok with that.

even with mikheyev gone, if we get guentzel thats basically it for upgrades at Forward

hroneks gotta get his 7.5 or w/e, and we need 5-6m to fill out the D bare minimum, more if we keep zadorov

i think its pretty clear they wont be able to solve all our problems in UFA, there wont be the money for it, theyll have to solve 1 or 2 things, then go try to make trades to solve the others

Big, fast, penalty killer, at 1m a year for the fourth line, get er done

11 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

Well, with simple geography, if there's a corridor between West Bank and Gaza, then we are talking about Israel being divided into 2 parts. Are you suggesting moving the entire population of Gaza into an expanded area in the West Bank that currently belongs to Israel?

 

Let's just put it this way - if any of us had a real solution that would be accepted by everyone, we would be nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. From my vintage point - there is too much evidence that Hamas and its actions are having wide spread support among the Palestinian population. There are also numerous quotes attributed to Arafat and other notable Palestinian leaders that state that any peace with Israel is just a temporary solution to roll the can down the road but it never removes the ultimate goal - not to have Jews in that part of the world. This is what makes so many Israelis very pessimistic with regards to the lasting peace. And with every rocket attack, every terrorist act - that pessimism only grows.

 

If you go to the start of the thread - I relayed my personal experience of missing being killed in a bus terrorist attack in Jerusalem in 1996 by mere minutes. Such experiences stay with you for the rest of your life.

Maybe Gaza is part of the land swap idk, or some kind of internationally guaranteed/maintained corridor exists between both territories, but i just cant imagine a state without the ability for residents to move freely within its borders would work

i am sorry to hear about that experience, i didnt know. i can imagine that stays with you forever. 

i think that same phenomenon youve described israelis experiencing with growing pessimism is exactly the same on the other side too. one injustice by one side created retaliation, begetting another injustice, etc etc. but i still believe that deep down everyones main concern is just their survival, feeding their family, etc. and with the right leadership on both sides de escalation and a permanent resolution is possible. the trouble is right now i dont think its in either partys incentive for peace. Israel can handle the status quo. Israeli civilians suffer, but the smotriches and ben gvirs benefit from that because it helps create political will to settle more and more Palestinian territory. Hamas gets all kinds of support from Iran and others when it attacks Israel and puts Palestinians in harms way. The fact that Hamas kept hostages in an apartment building- it seems obvious Hamas wanted Israel to come in and for as many palestinian civilians as possible to die, because the more palestinians die, the more soldiers Hamas gets and the more support it receives. 

Just now, Drive-By Body Pierce said:

Class act... That Perry guy, wherever he goes.

i said it earlier - the human embodiment of a buttplug

CORY PERRY IS CURSING THE REF

10 MINUTE MISCONDUCT PLEASE

CACKLING RIGHT NOW

CACKLING

6 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

I don't think it's realistic at this point to have all the Arabs that left (and their children/grandchildren) all return to where they lived before 1948, just like it's unrealistic for the same thing to happen with the Jews who left Arab countries. Some sort of compensation needs to be negotiated. But for that to happen - there must be a will on both sides. What bothers me is that the world's expectations from Israel are on a whole different level than the expectations from the other side. I think the fact that you brought yourself - that Arab Israelis have all the same rights as Jewish Israelis, is pretty solid argument that Israel isn't looking to eradicate Arabs. Are there racists within Israel? Unfortunately, yes, in that regard we are no different than any other nation in the world. Are there idiots in positions of power in Israel? The same, we are no different than majority of the countries in that regard. There's a famous phrase by Ben Gurion - "We will become a true nation when we have our own thieves, our own prostitutes". Well, I should also add "corrupt politicians". But again - we didn't invent the wheel in that area either. But I will defend my country against external enemies all the time and then will try to fix internal problems within our own house.

i agree, its not realistic. it would have to be compensation of some kind, likely in the form of a land swap to make the palestinian territories more viable as a state. no serious person believes that palestine as it stands today, two entirely separated landmasses, could ever be a viable state. a land swap to join the territories into a parcel of land that would be a viable state and if this was offered with the conditions we discussed, i believe it would work. Unfortunately, since the early 2000s, Likud has made it clear that a Palestinian state of any kind is not acceptable, it will take a much more moderate negotiating party to not only accept a palesitnian state in principle, but acknowledge the responsibility to provide compensation and landswaps in exchange for forfeiting right of return. It will also take Palestinians willing to throw Hamas out on their own accord, and a new leader to stand up and say - Israel deserves to exist as a Jewish state, and we're willing to give up our past demands to return in exchange for a viable state.

the discrepancy in expectations of israel comes from two places i think

1. sometimes its antisemitism- some of these people just dont like jews, and theyre usually pretty clear thats their reason

2. i make no secret that even in my ideal plan, im expecting way more of israel. Im expecting Israel to give up territory, withdraw from settlements, etc. Thats a far bigger ask than just recognizing the right of israel to exist and putting down weapons. My lopsided expectations arent based on antisemitism, theyre just based on the fact that I think thats whats fair to resolve the existing injustices in the region, and what would create peace. Israel should not be occupying and settling the West Bank, Hamas should not be murdering civilians or sending rockets into Israeli towns. Israel has the  right to exist, Palestinians deserve self determination in a manner that does not threaten Israelis right to live in peace. 

8 minutes ago, RomanPer said:

 

This is precisely the point of why we (Jews) are getting so defensive every time someone is trying to blame Israel in anything - because it's always being used to raise the overall level of antisemitism in the world. And we know how it usually ends. Holocaust was just the latest attempt to kill all of us and it was in relatively close past, so majority of people know about it. But it wasn't the first such attempt, and, unfortunately, won't be the last one either. Our memory keeps all of them. We even celebrate our victories in some such attempts from ancient history (Purim).

i dont disagree with any of that

half the time criticizing israel is an excuse to criticize jews

if u challenge someone on what beef they have with israel, its either some antisemetic trope or they just dont know

fuck them 

but there are very legitimate criticisms which u and i have discussed in this thread, and real mistreatment and injustices that not only are morally unacceptable but also radicalize palestinians which threatens the survival of Israel. It is better for everyone to be fully honest about all of it and make an attempt to understand and advocate for a resolution to those things

none of this is intended to minimize the injustices and evils that palestinians have inflicted on israelis. its just an attempt to fix the underlying problem so everyone can have peace. 

6 minutes ago, Barnstorm said:

I didn’t know they sell booze at those viewing parties? Does that mean 19 years or older only?

i guess 18 year old sam bennett wouldnt be allowed in

Great goal by Foegle, breakaway assisted by 

OLIVER

EKMAN

LARSSON

1 minute ago, RomanPer said:

 

You can't have it both ways. Just because Jews owned 6.6% land doesn't mean that the remaining 93.4% was owned by Arabs. It simply isn't true. Majority of that land was uninhibited and not owned by individuals.

Im not arguing that 93% was owned by Arabs, the vast majority was owned by the British Mandate. Land "ownership" by way of titles and deeds wasnt even a thing in that region until mid 1800s. 

The entire point i was trying to make is there was a ton of inhabited land, villages and towns from where people were expelled and fled from, and they wnated to go back but weren't allowed to

Taxis entire argument revolves around the UN partition plan - if the arabs didn't want to lose everything they should have said yes, but he ignores that Israel too ignored the UN when the UN told Israel to let people move back to thier towns and homes.

Again, I respect you and appreciate what you said about not going back to the well of history to re-adjudicate everything, but just like we cant deny that Jews were unjustly expelled from Arab countries, we cant deny that the same happened to Palestinians, and the only reason I say this is if someone is really interested in finding a solution its about being fair to everyone - the people that lost their homes and towns and land, as well as to the Israelis who live there today who played no part in those people being disposessed. I get frustrated by the way Taxi speaks because it purports this myth that the reason we have his conflict is because muslims hate jews. there are real reasons why we're where we are today and if someone really wants to solve things u have to try to address as many of the injustices as possible. what doesnt work is nonsense like taxi pushed which was to say arabs werent really expelled, jews owned all of the land in the partition plan anyway, which is just not true. 

20 minutes ago, Taxi said:

 

Jews owned most of the land outside of the Nagev (which was and mostly is uninhabitable) that was allocated to them.  

 

Here's a map of what Jews owned:

 

 

H

 

Here's a map of the partition plan, notice any similarities? Most of the land in white was state owned. So Arabs were getting not only land they owned, but a huge amount of state owned land.

 

 

And yes, I'm quite familiar with the history beforehand. 

Thats wild that you'd post an accurate map and then lie in the exact same sentence

The map shows the truth which is: Jewish owners legally owned 6.6% of the total land in 1947. 55% of the total land was allocated to Israel in the partition plan.

So yeah, back on ignore, not debating with someone who has no problem just making shit up for no reason. 

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

A lot did happen before 1948. Begins with "H" 

youll have to forgive me, i dont know what you mean. i am a very literal person, i usually dont understand insinuations even if they seem obvious to other people

1 minute ago, Taxi said:

Why do you keep stating that your the balanced one? You clearly have biases.

 

Yes Jews wanted to be in control of their own state, instead of being persecuted minorities in a Muslim state. Palestinians want their own state too. It's natural to want to control your own destiny, particularly when the other side has a brutal history of oppression. The foundation of the conflict is the war the Arabs started in 1948. If that war hadn't happened no one flees. Jews keep the land allocated to them in the UN partition plan, which was largely land they already owned.

a lot happened before may 1948 that you either are just uninformed about or just dont care about. and thats just straight up bullshit that jews already owned all the land allocated in the partition plan. nobody who has taken more than 5 minutes to read the history disputes that huge parts of what would be allocated to Israel were villages and towns that were 90%+ Arab. 

blocked and muted, dont really have any interest in debating someone who so uninformed. 

Roman on the other hand clearly knows his history even if we disagree on some of the detials. 

3 hours ago, RomanPer said:

Im pretty sure that if the first 2 options are truly implemented (and not considered by Palestinians as a temporary concession before trying to achieve their ultimate goal to get rid of all the Jews in that part of the world) than the Israeli part will be much easier to achieve.

i agree, and if the this offer with the conditions was made by Israel, its a whole lot easier for everyone to stand behind Israel (except for the antisemities and nazis of course, theyll always be themselves)

if that deal is offered and palestinians fuck it up/turn it down/fail to do their part, nobody can say that Israel hasn't done everything it can to actually address the root cause of palestinian anger. Israel not only reclaims the moral highground in the conflict, but they immediately win over the vast majority of palestinians who just want an opportunity to live safely and feed their kids

3 hours ago, RomanPer said:

There are just as many examples where it was Arab leaders who called for their people to vacate in order for the armies of the Arab countries “taking care of the Jews”. You can’t put all the blame for what happened in 1948 on one side. After all, it was Arab countries that started the war, using Der Yassin as an excuse. Also, I bring up again about 700k Jews who had to flee Arab countries and have their properties confiscated after their departure. Everything in that part of the world is a two way street.

we can debate the history of exactly what happened, there were terrorist attacks by Arabs on Jewish communities before 1948, and similarly there were terrorist attacks by Irgun and the like on Arabs before 1948, there was a ton of violence and a lot of the expulsion and flight happened before May 1948 when arab armies invaded. Jews who fled arab countries should be entitled to restitution as well if desired, and if they ever wanted to go back (though i cant imagine why they would) they should have the right to do so or at least be compensated for the confiscation of their property. 

Regardless of how it exactly came about, theres no dispute that 700k palestinian civilians fled and/or were expelled and the key issue is - their property was confiscated and they were not allowed to return home despite being very clear that they wanted to. the reason they were not allowed to return is it would have fucked up israels demographic requirements in order to ensure it could remain a jewish majority state. this is the foundation of the conflict today and why we've had no solution. 

3 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

Hes been on pace for 30 goals every season except for 2020-21. Laine also hasnt played with someone with an IQ and as much talent as Pettersson. Could be the perfect match.

If we have to, get salary retention one way or another, either CBJ retains or a 3rd party is involved who is looking for draft capital. Laine is 26, this could very well be the move that solidifies two top lines of scoring and gives more options for the PP1/PP2

theres a number where it makes sense for sure

idk, maybe 1.7m retention, Laine for 7m is probably a gamble worth taking

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I think you're going to need some way of holding fair elections as well as some kind of security agreement whereby Israel can guarantee that there aren't more tunnels and arms capacity being rebuilt.

If the new state of Palestine in any way attacks the state of Israel, it would be handled the way any country attacks another country - Israel would have every right to a military response. If that attack comes from the government of Palestine, Israel would have the right to overthrow that government. 

 I also forgot to add one provision - there has to be limits on any kind of military by the Palestinian state. It cant be allowed a full fledged military, given the proximity to Israel. No airforce, etc. Adherence to these terms would have to be set up by international inspectors, and if there was a buildup of weaponry in Palestine, the state would have to be sanctioned and Israel should have the right to destroy that weaponry and those installations. Maybe after 40-50 years of proving peace and good neighborliness, those restrictions could be lifted. Palestine would have the right to have its own police force, but no full fledged military. It could enter into some collective defense agreement with another government it trusts, god knows its surrounded by enough allies that it shouldn't require its own military.

Edit: and yes, free and fair elections, ofc. 

24 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Spare me the sermon. Tell me the next logical step to solve this conflict.

What Sermon? Nothing I said was untrue. "Bomb the shit out of Hamas" is a dumb plan for peace, nothing gets solved until you fix the causes for its existence, which is rooted in mistreatment and abuse of the Palestinians. 

The fairest outcome? here it is:

1. Palestinians have to root out and turn over Hamas leaders to the IDF themselves, and the following provisions do not kick in until this is done

2. Upon fulfillment of the deal terms below, Palestinians have to recognize Israel as a Jewish state according to the current borders, forfeits claims to return to their 1948 homes, with some modifications for land swaps

-

A. Withdrawal of IDF and all settlements, checkpoints, and military installations from the West Bank and East Jerusalem

B. Israel provides land that connects the West Bank with Gaza to create a contiguous land mass, in exchange for palestinians forfeiting their right of return. 

C. Israel recognizes a Palestinian state based on those terms and borders