grover

Ok, I have a really poor memory, and limited time. So please show where I have defended terrorists or terrorism. You say that you think critically, but when I say that more than 2/3 of the worlds countries have not labelled Hamas or Hezbollah as terrorist organizations, that does not invoke your critical thinking...??? Ahh, you mean selective critical thinking. Now I'm on board. Do Israeli actions make them terrorists by definition? And yeah, the closest thing to a social media account I have is messenger, which I don't use! So cheers to that. Unfortunately, You will not be able to convince me that an American scholar gives unbiased evaluations. I'm not saying they are biased, just that nothing suggests they are completely unbiased. Red Flag for me is their advertising of their being unbiased. But just ask my wife, I'm known to be wrong A LOT! As for Hamas hiding among the civilians of Gaza, Gaza is almost twice the size of Salt Spring Island, but with almost 2.2 million people living there. And you're suggesting Hamas chooses to hide among the civilian population... OK, I'll agree with you there.

Hmmm, where to go from here... I see that you have acknowledged how the Israelis have treated the Palestinians, and how they continue to do so. But my interpretation of this acknowledgement, is that Israel has the full right to do this (cart blanche, if you will?) due to the incessant attacks on Israel by the Palestinians? Is my interpretation correct? Almost feel like I should stop here, so that you might answer my question, but... I don't know why you think I like this war, and how you haven't seen my feeble cry for peace in the region. My only guess is that you saw that I said I was fine with being labelled a supporter of terrorism, which you have taken to heart? Well, just because you label me a supporter of terrorism doesn't make it so. You don't know me, my beliefs, religious background, or the colour of my skin for that matter! Of course, like I just said, this is a vague guess on my part (me supporting this war). And if there is any truth to bibi's words, this war will not end until Israel has destroyed both Hamas and Hezbollah. Then the question in my head is, are Hamas and Hezbollah groups? Or ideologies? And if ideologies, how do you destroy an ideology? Brings to mind the US' wars on terror and drugs. Still ongoing after how many years? No, I am a staunch pacifist and want nothing more than all wars to end. Unfortunately, the only way I can see lasting peace in West Asia is with a two state solution, and that won't happen in my lifetime. I am convinced, that if the state of Palestine already was, then October 7th would never have happened. If Palestine was a sovereign nation, there wouldn't have been a need to attack Israel. And then Hezbollah wouldn't have begun to launch rockets into Israel... As I said earlier, in Hamas' 2017 revised charter, they claim to accept the idea of a Palestinian state within the 1967 borders, but without recognizing the statehood of Israel. Israel was alive and kicking in 1967, so it would still be there if the two state solution was adopted, just not recognized by Hamas. Of course, if there was a two state solution, there would be much less (if any) demand for Hamas, so maybe the PA or another party comes to power, and they recognize the Israeli state for the same reason Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005? But Allah knows, war is BIG money! Heck, Russia is reviving its economy with military spending as we speak. Did I meet your challenge to call for a peaceful Palestinian administration?

I know it sounds like I advocate for Hamas, but I really don't. I just think it's unfair how the west labels them as terrorists, and israel and israeli crimes are given a free pass. There is one thing I like about Hamas, and how they fight for the Palestinian people, and there right to exist. And they do, to some degree, accept a two state solution, although it doesn't recognize the state of israel. So kinda where we are now.

Hey, great to have more advocates for the Palestinians here. Keep it up, but don't sell yourself short. It's not only me who is denying Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist groups, but a majority of the world. Only some 60 countries have labelled Hamas and Hezbollah as terrorist groups, while 135 countries were against. So if more than 2/3 of the worlds nations disagree with your claims... How does that work??? Because the US says so? Or Canada? So yeah, what Hamas did on Oct. 7 was some really bad sh!+. No question about it. And yes, my number of dead civilians was a little low, so I'll raise it to about 5-600. But bear with me here. The official number of dead from the Oct. 7 attack is 1,139 (so yeah, close to 1200). But if you take away the roughly 400 israeli soldiers, and then all the people shot by the responding israeli attack helicopters, well the numbers change a bit. (you should check out "the Hannibal Directive", something bibi implemented during the Oct. 7 attack. And then you'll understand why israel doesn't care about the remaining hostages.) Oh, you've found proof of a rape... This was an unknown for me, which was kind of strange considering how much rape (and gang rape) was reported. I just haven't seen any non-israeli confirmation of this. I am far from denying that sexual violence took place, but I've yet to see any first-hand witness accounts of this. So I would love to see who it was, so I can check out there story and know it to be fact. But that still doesn't excuse all the sexual violence committed by israeli soldiers, which is more documented. And do you still believe the "10 decapitated babies story"? I can give you more numbers to check if you want? Number of babies killed : 1; number of dead babies : 2, though the second one died of an emergency C- section. And the baby that was killed, was reportedly through a door. Although I'm a little vague on that one. I've seen lots of video of the idf usinging human shields, but have yet to see one of Hamas doing so. And I've seen a lot of tik-tok videos of Hamas in action. So again, it's much more documented that it's the idf that is using the human shields. But please, with all the phones in Gaza, there has to be at least one video of Hamas using a human shield. But yeah, isreal has won the propaganda/information war hands down, but are really losing the evidence war. I hope the links work, I really suck at keeping up with technology, so I apologize if they don't. But let me know if they don't work, and I'll have to find some way to prove my claims. That's if you can't find the info yourself. Another good source is electronic intifada, but that will mostly be another Canadian guy showing filmed evidence.

I'm pretty sure the bus bombings and other attacks in israel had little to do with the Oslo Accords. See "Cave of the patriarchs massacre" and "Yahya Ayyash". All though I agree Hamas rejected the idea of a 2 state solution, as did every the israeli far right. So yeah, the israeli far right and Hamas also helped bring down the Oslo Accords, but I think the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin, and israels continuation of creating new settlements in the West Bank were the main issues. I also think the jewish far right knew exactly where to throw the flaming match I have no issues with israels right to defend itself, every country should have that right. But its the methods they use. And the dehumanization of the Palestine people. No people should be dehumanized, as in my mind, dehumanization creates resentment and does nothing to build a lasting peace... And isn't that what everyone really wants, peace?

So is israel a terrorist nation, since they use human shields, indiscriminately bomb and attack civilian shelters they themselves told the Palestinians to migrate to? For attacking hospitals, turning off all water, electricity and gas in Gaza? Chasing people from their homes, and then destroying them? For copying the US detention practices at al graib (spelling)? If israel isn't a terrorist state, then by definition, Hamas isn't. Hezbollah is a widely recognized political party in Lebanon. And yes, they have their own militia.

Officially, Hamas and Hezbollah are not terrorist organizations, as the UNSC (yes, I'm aware that the UN is dysfunctional as a governing body) has not passed a resolution declaring them as such. Also there are only about 60 of a total of 195 nations that have denounced Hamas and Hezbollah. That not even half of the worlds nations identify Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorist organizations makes me adopt the democratic viewpoint that they are not. But most western nations say Hezbollah and Hamas are terrorist organizations, so I understand those that agree with them...

I'm hoping all 3, but if I had to pick one, it would be Sherwood. I've liked a lot of the reports I've read of him becoming a Motte type player. And a sliver of hope that he becomes even better!

Thx for the welcome Canuck Surfer Just to clarify your "separate Hamas or Hezbollah from Palestinians" statement. Are you advocating the israeli right to kill children, label every Palestinian as a potential terrorists (and treating them as such), and using Palestinians as human shields to perpetrate a genocide? I don't completely understand your background for this question? As for me supporting terrorists, when less than 1/3 of the worlds countries declare Hezbollah and Hamas as terrorists, it certainly grants me cause to question the labeling of these groups as terrorists. But when you research the (mostly western) claims of terrorism, it's hard not to see israel as a terrorist state. But by all means, label me a supporter of terrorism, as I have alot of sympathy for the Palestinians and their cause. I won't deny that. But if you could answer this. Do you think that Oct. 7 would have happened if israel had honoured its commitments to the Oslo Accords of '93, with the two state solution? Hopefully this question tips you off on where I lean; which is just to stop all the killing and violence, and to deescalate the conflict in West Asia.

The amount of pro-zionist, anti-Arabic rhetoric in this thread is really scary. I understand that when the media where you live only provides one side of a story, it's really easy to fall in there rabbit hole. Like this UNRWA staffer who was a leader for Hezbollah. What BS that is... And before you all go and lay out proof from AP, and Israeli Times... Google "does israel vet UNRWA staff members". Or don't, because you won't like the answer. And then your social media might start providing alternating viewpoints to what you're used too. It's like the 12 UNRWA staff members israel said participated in the Oct 7 attacks, way back in January. No proof was ever submitted by israel, other than their word. And after a 4 month long investigation by OIOS (because israel didn't/couldn't provide the evidence) no independent authentication was achieved. So because Hamas maybe killed some three/four hundred Israeli civilians, and took a hundred or so more hostage, We G7's want to set the entire West Asia on fire. Yeah, I agree. Makes sense. So much easier than attaining facts... So may peace prevail eventually