-dlc-

No, but the one's that leave a guy's face bleeding post whistle. You know, those ones.

To be honest, I'm over the refs and hoping they get it right. I just now assume they won't and go with that. But the team isn't wilting and that's the takeaway for me. We win DESPITE the refs. At times, I get hopeful as they make a good call/non call or two. Then they let someone smash our guys in the face after the whistle's blown and they're right there and...nothing. So sigh, back to square one. The reffing's awful and inconsistent. I can make that statement and feel quite confident in it. Despite how some have argued of hard it is, how fast the game is, how these are the best of the best. We've shifted from that narrative now...now it's that they're subjective. Which is inching closer to the truth.

We don't talk about that. "Whataboutism" is the way to avoid it.

But where do the refs come in? Partway through? Never? When they feel like it?

"is and always has been" "this is the best it's ever been" Because you say so? "I like" The last part is what opinions are...the rest, being presented as facts are just actually stuff tied into "I like" and opinion. Not facts. Which is what bugs me....no, you don't tell us what hockey is or how it's always been. We have our own opinions and they're as relevant/"factual" as your ideas. Sigh, wish I didn't see quotes. More of the same....JT WILL BE gone. Yes, sure, ok because you said so. But wait.......

Bottom line is: we're the paying customers here. We fork out good money for these games and if this is something the refs get to "weigh in on" rather than "call", it matters to some of us. We want the rule book to mean something. And bias NOT to come into play. Refs wanting to prove something or maybe harbouring their own personal grudges. Sometimes players get pissed and spew stuff....so a ref can bring that along? Referee: an official who watches a game or match closely to ensure that the rules are adhered to

Two things here: Your first part? That, again, is "whataboutism". "What about how things used to be?" But we're not supposed to care, remember? The double standard is NHL ref level here. Also, it's not about different refs/different games.....we're talking the same refs applying different standards in the same game. "It's never going to happen" ... exact words you used to me to tell me JT wasn't going to be here. I don't buy what you sell.

The reason it does matter is an elbow implies someone's targeting high and that rep can stick....but that wasn't the case. Dahlin stretched out/reached and JT wasn't going high on him. His own body positioning put him in a vulnerable state. Nothing dirty there (at all) and roughing seems more appropriate. JT went in for a good, solid hit. Greenway, however....was intentionally dirty/a cheap shot after the goal. And that was....let go. "Subjective" The fact that they can't determine what to call speaks volumes to me in "maybe there's nothing there TO call then?" I just hated the inconsistency. If you call that, sure....but call the post whistle high slams our players took or it's lopsided and advantageous to one team. Which it was.

Hi actually didn't get the elbow up. Again....still shots tell the story (I won't bother). So a guy can't go for a puck because another guys leaning in, trying for it too? Another reach that backfired.

Here's where I have an issue. Start that early on...don't chime in after two guys on our team have been hit high (post whistle!!). Oh sure, NOW you want to settle it down...when Dahlin's crying. Seems fair (not). Anyhow, I've put my point out there and it is what it is. I'm glad our team doesn't need fair officiating to get it done....they're finding a way despite it. And it seems that they get fired up and it plays into their favour/energy when they have to do it alone without the refs making calls that they should. Lafferty deserved a call. Whatever that was, it was horseshit.

When they impact the game, it shouldn't be "subjective" it should be clear and concise. There's a rulebook, follow it. Winging it just doesn't fly.

What a bs statement. They're highly paid professionals too. Do better. Weak deflection from them missing the Lafferty high hit. How can you be subjective about that???? Besides....this is a "whataboutism". "What about the fact that they're human/subjective". Stick to the calls they missed without straying? Your rules.

I don't want Toronto people chiming in. Ulterior motives. Focus on Weelander and leave Petey outta your mouth.

I get the sense, especially from our core players, that they've just had enough. Losing. Getting pushed around. All of it. I feel like they really are "all in" and just won't lose. I mean...they will at times...but they're so determined. And have supporting players in place who really help with that. Love what I'm seeing from them. They're pissed off and not complacent. "We are all JT Millers". No excuses, no bullshit....just give it everything.

This. Exactly! I'd be ok if they did call it roughing. Sure, fine. It's them making stuff up that bugs me.

And they were lucky when they didn't call the late high shot to Lafferty's face. Which actually WAS a headshot.

I thought so too. It was kind of weird because they went Bruin instead of skill. Didn't work out, despite the refs giving them a bit of an advantage at times. Someone said childish play and I thought it seemed like a really piss poor game plan. Maybe trying to "ready" themselves for the playoffs a little prematurely?

Dahlin did play it up... And the principle point of contact was shoulder/chest. In these frame by frames it's Dahlin reaching for the puck that's gotten in front of him that puts him low as the hit's delivered. That's on him. JT tucked in the elbow, didn't leave his feet and when he contacted the ref, it was shoulder to shoulder. So did he do a chicken dance to resume that position?? Not sure how tall this ref is, but Dahlin's 6'3". JT's shoulder to shoulder with a ref that likely isn't taller than Dahlin. The same person arguing this was a penalty also thought Nazzy reached for the puck and that Moore's hit wasn't anything. So let's apply that here then. They also are very pro ref (they NEVER get it wrong) and wanted JT out of here. So bias? Yes. He'd love JT to be at fault because he didn't want him here in the first place. Wish people wouldn't quote him because it's easier not to see this bs "because I said so" stuff.

And "whataboutism" Isn't that the same as "what about the 70's and 80's?" So only now it's not relevant because you're not using it? What about the 70's and 80's? Who cares?

LMAO Yes, that's your take. Only. Fancy name for overlooking shitty calls and only addressing the one you want to.

They also were "gifted" the opportunity to hit high post whistle and not be called for it. "Gifts" ... one leaving a good mark on Laff's cheek. Bastards

Whataboutism is relevant even though you ignore it because it doesn't fit. The refs missed TWO obvious high hits post whistle. Didn't call them. One left quite a mark too....proof/evidence. Then they call a penalty on JT because Dahlin reached and put himself low. JT took care to tuck in his elbow and not leave his feet. They made it up to give him 2 minutes. Whataboutism is also called "consistency" despite trying to roll over it. And you can use "IT IS" like yours is the final word but...it isn't. Refs are never wrong, gotcha.

What was the penalty? As the elbow did not come into play?

"Which was" The authority? I don't think so. Someone who's emphatically refused to see anything wrong in the officiating. Ever. It's quite astounding to me. It wasn't (a penalty)...I can counter the opinion/argument and state it as fact too.

So was this, but it wasn't called. So no. They don't get to make stuff up. Statements of "the ref sometimes choose not to call them" shows how corrupt it is when you can pick and choose. They chose not to call two high hits before the Miler clean hit...one on Soucy, and this one on Lafferty. Both POST whistle...not during game play like JT's clean hit was. This wasn't called...so the one on Miller shouldn't have been either. Period. You can defend the shitty refs all you want but that's on you, not us. They allowed the Sabres to hit our guys high after the play was whistled dead...but then called JT for a hit that completely Dahlin reaching for the puck. JT...elbow tucked in, didn't leave his feet. Ridiculous to try to justify this officiating.