Ilunga

I really have no clue in regards to what you are talking about. Also, I find nothing to be amused about in regards to this conflict. To truly accept one another, then maybe instead of people defining themselves by the place they happen to be born, or they place they dwell. They define themselves by the planet that we all share. I can absolutely, 100 percent guarantee you, this conflict would not be happening if people did this.

So, because you find a ten second skit about a " Jewish wedding " amusing, this is displaying your humanity ? You are entitled to your views/opinions, they are part of what defines you. When you actually start to display some real humanity for people who are really suffering in this conflict, then I will believe you have some humanity in regards to this conflict. Since the conditions for famine have set in, Gaza, and posters reactions to the suffering of the children. Then people's support of a far right wing nutjob over the last few pages, my respect for some people on this forum has diminished. This makes me feel really sad. What amazes me, is that people who condemn intolerance and religion in other threads, are fine with those things if the people who propagate those ideas support Israel. I seriously thought about quitting this forum, however I have my fantasy teams, and I love icehockey and the Canucks in that order. Even though I don't contribute much to the hockey side of the forum, I read the games days, it's kinda really fun and the PGT's. There are a few really knowledgeable hockey people on this forum. There are people I really respect, and I want to keep in touch with on this forum. And what great distance in understanding are you referring to ? We are all humans being, that all share human nature, and we all share this planet. And to be clear I don't think you are a " bad " person. Bad, good are subjective things. I believe, that like a few people on this forum, you have selective humanity.

Sigh. Who is the poster that has continually throughout this thread posted videos of Isrealis and Palestinians working together for peace Alf ? Who has posted stories of Isrealis and Palestinians forgiving each other, for what is virtually unforgivable Alf ?

This one is a Canadian/ Jewish " proposal. It always makes me feel really good, every time I watch it.

This is the first time I have used the confused emoticon. I am genuinely confused by a 10 " skit " about a Jewish wedding. I have the movie The Conference, on, SBS World movies now. It is about the Conference the Nazis had in regards to the " final solution " As we all know Heydrich was commissioned to orchestrate, plan and implement it. It is such a disturbing movie in regards to the impersonal way the characters discuss the details of the " final solution "

If you, or anyone else for that matter is interested in the truth read this article. https://www.vox.com/24055522/israel-hamas-gaza-war-strategy-netanyahu-strategy-morality " At the end of November Israeli reporter Yuval Abraham broke on of the most important stories of the war in Gaza to date - an inside look at the disturbing reasoning that has led the Isreali military to kill so many civilians. Citing seven conversations with " current and former members of Israel's intelligence community" Abraham reported that the Israeli Defence Forces (IDF) had changed its doctrine to permit far greater civilian casualties than it would have tolerated in previous wars. IDF leadership was greenlighting strikes on civilian targets like apartment buildings and public infrastructure that they knew would kill scores of innocent Gazans. " In one case ", Abraham reported " the Isreali military command knowingly approved the killing of hundreds of Palestinian civilians in an attempt to assassinate a single top Hamas military commander ". Abrahams reporting showed, in granular detail, the way that this war would not be like others: that Israel so greivously wounded on October 7, would go to extraordinary violent lengths to destroy the group responsible for that days atrocities. In doing so it would commit atrocities of its own. " The article then details the death and destruction. " There's no doubt that Israel has done significant damage to Hamas's infrastructure. Israel has killed or captured around one third of Hamas fighting force, destroyed half of its rocket stockpile and demolished somewhere between 20 to 40 percent of its tunnel network under Gaza. The more the war goes on the higher those numbers will become. But as significant as these achievements are " none of them come close to eliminating Hamas " says Dan Nyman, a professor at Georgetown who studies Israeli counter terrorism policy. The group he explains has very deep roots in Gaza - ones that could only be permanently removed if Israel had a good plan for war post war political in Gaza. Israel has still not plan at all. With support for Hamas riding in response to Israeli brutality, Israel runs the risk of actually strengthening the terrorists political position in the long run. A world where hundreds of thousands of Gazans suffer and only Hamas benifits is the worst of all possible worlds. Yet it is increasingly looking like a likely one. " There is some information about why this particular Israeli government is not the " right " government to be in charge of this war. " Walter Walzer is the worlds greatest living military ethicist. His 1977 book Just and Unjust Wars is the seminal modern text that in what's called the just war theory the branch of political philosophy that is designated to when and how a war can be waged ethically. Wether one agrees with it or not, his work is the baseline by which all other work is judged and has influenced law and policy all around the world. On the American left, Walzer is known as one of Israels most famous defenders. In a 2017 essay he describes Just and Unjust wars as the outgrowth of his attempt to reconcile his opposition to the Vietnam war war with his support for Israels 1967 war with its Arab neighbours. After October 7, he has repeatedly defended Isreals right to defend itself and put the majority of the moral blame for human suffering on Hamas. " Israels military response to the atrocities of October 7 is a just and necessary war," he wrote in December. Yet when we spoke in early February he was far more critical of Israels war than I expected. " Israel has created new conditions on the ground that make it virtually impossible to continue the war " ethically he told me. " I am hoping for a kind of ceasefire " Walzer is referring to the Geography of the fighting. When Israel began its ground offensive in Gaza, it concentrated the fighting in the northern Gaza strip - instructing Palestinian civilians to flee to the south to stay out of harm's way. But today, Isreal is threatening a major ground offensive in the southern city of Rafah, where huge numbers of Palestinians civilians have fled with nowhere else to go. For Walzer, Israel cannot wage war justly when Gazan citizens truly cannot escape. But Walzer also pointed to a deeper moral problem with Israels seemingly impossible objective of destroying Hamas. Generally just war theorists war cannot be ethically waged without having a " reasonable prospect of success " the logic is intuitive: War inevitably involves a lot of killing and killing can only be justified if it accomplishes a greater good. If the objective behind the killing is impossible ( or extremely implausible ) then there is no greater good to be won from the bloodshed. Walzer believes that many Israelis traumatized by October 7, did not fully appreciate how intermingled Hamas - the defacto government of Gaza - was with Gaza society. It's an organisation made up of not only tens of thousands of fighters but many civilian functionaries and a vast physical infrastructure. Truly destroying such an entity cannot be accomplished through force of arms alone - at least not with a years long military campaign and an unthinkable amount of civilian deaths. Some Israelis are beginning to acknowledge this reality. In January Gadi Eisenkot - a senior member in Israels war cabinet - declared " whoever speaks of absolute defeat ( of Hamas ) is not speaking the truth " and that Israeli hostages in Gaza could only be brought home as part of a ceasefire deal. A classified Israeli military assessment reported by Israelz channel 12 news station, predicts that Hamas will exist as a terrorist organisation even if Israel destroys much of its more conventional military capabilities. " There is a lot more detailing the futility of this war, and how unethical it actually is.

It's pretty simple brother, you make a claim, provide evidence to back up that claim. 7 - 10 individuals picked out by facial recognition ? I seem to remember that claim. That would be evidence. Then why hasn't Isreal provided that evidence to back up their claims. Tens of thousands of UNRWA employees. Just looked at claim up, apparently the UNRWA employees " 32,000 people across its area of operations in Palestine, 13,000 of them in Gaza. " So you automatically come to the conclusion that is " Mathematically impossible that not one of them was a involved. Sigh. Even though Isreals claims have no evidence to back them up, people still struggle to find ways to apportion blame. Evidence, not spurious claims make something a fact. And what have the teachings of the UNRWA workers have to do with them being involved in the terrorist attacks on October 7. All those other things you brought up ? Whataboutism ? My post is about the false claims that Israel has made against the UNRWA. What upsets me about them, is they achieved their goal of stopping aid getting to the Palestinians. Evidence brother. You make definitive statements, evidence must be provided to make those statements factual. Reuters one of the most trusted, least biased sources of news on this planet https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/reuters/ Far more detailed report. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/review-says-unrwa-has-robust-neutrality-steps-issues-persist-2024-04-22/ " The review said that Israel had not raised any concerns with the UNRWA, based on those staff lists since 2011. Then in March 2024, Israel made public claims that a significant number of UNRWA employees of terrorist organisations. " However Israel has yet to provide any evidence in support of this. Israel stepped up its accusations in March saying 450 UNRWA staff were military operatives in Gaza terrorist groups. UNRWA employees 2 32,000 people across its area of operations, 13,000 of them in Gaza." Remembering that Isreal get access to the lists of the people who are employed by the UNRWA and vet them. No complaints since 2011. Where's the evidence ?

So Israeli source as of a few hours ago. " UN Says Israel Has Not Provided Proof For Allegations That UNRWA Staff In Gaza Belong To Terror Groups The independent review of the 'neutrality' of the agency is seperate in to investigations of Israeli claims that 12 staff members participated in the in the October 7 attacks " https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2024-04-23/ty-article/.premium/un-says-israel-has-not-provided-proof-that-unrwa-staff-in-gaza-belong-to-terror-groups/0000018f-0866-d0d2-a7bf-7dffd6980000 " An independent review by the UN, released on Monday, found that Israel has not provided evidence for its claims that many employees of the UNRWA, the main agency for Palestinian refugees, belong to terror organisations in the Gaza strip. " As usual, this is Israel throwing some shit against the wall and seeing if some of it would stick. That also happens in this thread. I clearly remember the hysteria that accompanied these claims. They certainly achieved their ends, which was to stop aid from getting to the Palestinians.

I have to point this out in good faith, stating again I have a great deal of respect for you. But isn't this a religious holiday, based on a mythical text ? And from memory your last post in the God thread was a quote " There is simply no polite way to tell people they' dedicated their lives to an illusion " To add to my comments, I believe there is always a polite way to talk to people. In fact all discourse should be polite and respectful. And if we follow that quote to its logical conclusion, the state of Israel is an illusion in the minds of people who believe in that mythical text ? The text that has been quoted by Roman as a justification for Israeli/ Jewish " ownership " of Jerusalem. This is me being a little bit, well maybe a lot cheeky, and as I stated it is in good faith, excuse the pun. On a serious note my brother found God after mum died. He belongs to a, what I would describe, as a first testament church. His week of celebrations began on Sunday, church day is the traditional Jewish sabbath, Saturday. I think he was washing his fellow parishioners feet last night. While I certainly don't believe what they do, I have met some of his friends from the church, they seem like really good people, that's all that matters to me. My brother has always been a kinda of a loner. I am glad he has found his people. I just want my brother to be happy. I love him, and that love is unconditional.

No one is my sworn enemy. I stated screw the Bin Salman's. I don't have enemies. The only really thing I hate is injustice. I don't even hate the people who commit injustice, it is the injustice itself I hate. Murrays claims of " Muslim " rapes in Sweden https://snurb.info/node/2884 " Yet the international far right has tried attempted to reconfigure this figure to image the Sweden is the " rape " capital of the world " and such sexually assaults are predominantly committed by Muslim migrants. Mathilda's work began with far right sites and explored their discussion of rape in Sweden, following the links of the links they provided in support of their claims through a nine step snowballing process. This shows a growth in such claims since the mid 2000's. Most texts are far right blogs and media sites, they also refer to mainstream media reporting, government texts and conservative media content, but the citation practises are driven by far right cites. " More in the article Reuters article " No evidence migration caused exaggerated 2013 Swedish rape statistics " https://www.reuters.com/article/idUSL1N37S2AU/ " Exaggerated rape statistics for Sweden in 2013 that have been used to suggest that migrants have driven an increase in assaults are false. Murray is not the Don Cherry of England. He is something far more dangerous. He is an educated, polished bigot, Xenophobe, Islamaphobe. https://buffsoldier-96.medium.com/the-strange-case-of-douglas-murray-74a670150172 " Unlike other " Eurabia " mongers fellow comrades in the struggle for civilisation, Murray is less crude and bombastic, more subtle, more intellectual, more lucid, more well mannered. Well most of the time. Occasionally his mask of respectability slips off and we can see him for what he really is. In 2006, while giving a speech at the Pim Fortuyn memorial conference in the Dutch parliament Murray describing Muslims as a " demographic time bomb " argued that " conditions in for Muslims must be made harder across the board " before " a larger number of your cities fall to Muslim majorities ". Plus he has given all sorts of soft apologias for all sorts of grisly reactionaries like Gert Vilders ( "defender of Dutch liberalism" ) Marie Le Pen and Donald Trump. " Click on those names in the articles for the links " In other words, he is a homo atlanticus redux, to borrow a phrase from Pankaj Mishra. Tommy Robinson in Tweed; Katie Hopkins with a cultured vocabulary; a cultured Xenophobe; a clash of civilizations warrior. What sort of POS apologises for the likes of Trump, Le Pen and Gilders ? And why would anyone in their right mind support him.

Finished Jean Jacques Rousseau's Of The Social Contract And Other Political Writings A few weeks ago. While the first few words of this book were written nearly 300 years ago " Man is born free, and everywhere he is in chains " They make me question how free we actually are, in regards to decisions made by the people we elect to govern us. While this book is political, I find its themes of justice, and his view that nobody has a right to sovereignty intriguing. He puts forward his belief that that instead we should have a " social contract ", and that this should be the basis of governance. I always have some fantasy/science fiction on the go as well. I have slowly been collecting Steven Erikson's Malazan Book of The Fallen series, from the second hand book stores I frequent. 10 books, 1000 pages. Finally managed to get the first one, have 7 of the other 9, missing the last two. The first 4 are really good. 100 pages into the fifth book. This series is just as good as the Wheel of Time series by Robert Jordan IMO. The world building is brilliant, and the shear amount of interesting characters and " races " is just as good as anything else I have read in this genre.

What about the far right figures that seek to divide us ? Making it and " us " and " them " scenario when it comes to race and/or religion. As I have pointed out, and provided evidence for my claim. The west has more to fear from far right terrorism than it does from Islamic terrorism. And yet I see people championing a far right figure in the last few pages of this thread.

Jewish people are like any people. They have good to bad and everything in between. I have criticised their fascist government, the government you support. I also criticise the fundamentalist religious nut jobs. The type of people you criticise in other threads, yet seem to support in this thread.

Coming from you this is pure gold. Who is the person who champions that we are all humans sharing this planet together Alf ?

That's not the case now though is it. I have already provided evidence of the power of Israeli lobby groups in our western nations. The most powerful nation of all. Isreali source Jim. https://www.haaretz.com/us-news/2024-02-28/ty-article-magazine/.premium/aipac-explained-the-inside-story-of-americas-powerful-and-divisive-pro-israel-lobby/0000018d-e4ac-d972-a5bf-efaf96c60000 " AIPAC, EXPLAINED: The Inside Story of America Most Powerful and Divisive Pro- Israel Lobby The American Israel Public Affairs Committee has clashed with and cosseted, targeted and championed US presidents and politicians turning Israel into an increasingly partisan issue. Here's what you need to know about AIPAC, the revered, feared and reviled lobbying and Political fundraising group, poised to play an oversized role in 2024' elections. "

You are fucking kidding right ? I don't hate anyone. As I have stated many times the only thing I hate is injustice. I don't care what race, creed, religion, progression or trade you are. I judge people by their actions and the content of the their character. Why do you support a fascist government ? I know you are anti religion. Why do you support people who believe the right of ownership to their land is because a god gave it to them. One of the people you continually " like " his posts in this thread , used a mythical religious text as the basis of Isreali/Jewish ownership of Jerusalem. How does that sit with you ? That same religion bans marriage with people from another ethnicity. How does that mesh with your anti - religious views. Why do you support a government that has a convicted terrorist as a member ? Why do you support a state that practices arpartheid ?

Really ? Do you believe Canadian Jews feel less safe in Canada than say first nations people ? The people that were there thousands of years before anyone else. Do you believe Australians Jews feel less safe than first nations people here in Australia, the oldest continuous culture on this planet ? Do you believe that American Jews feel less safe than African - Americans in the US. Maybe driving while Jewish can be compared to driving while black ?

Seriously ? You think his anti immigration, Islamaphobic views are acceptable ? The war on the west ? The strange death of Europe ? I thought you of all people, living in a multi - ethnic society like ours would repudiate his views. And Murray is not smart. Murray is educated. There is a huge difference. You know that far right terrorism poses a greater than threat to western nations than Islamic terrorism, right ? https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/sep/08/post-911-domestic-terror https://www.euractiv.com/section/justice-home-affairs/news/far-right-terrorism-bigger-threat-to-west-than-islamic-state-study/ And David Murray is a far right figure. If you support David Murray you are in great company, with the likes of Marie Le Pen, Victor Orban and Gert Vilders. You keep comparing those fucked up islamic regimes as an excuse for Isreals behaviour. Isreal is OK because they are worse. Two wrongs make a right. Let's support a fascist government because they are surrounded by nutbag religious theocracies. You do realise that you wouldn't be living in Australia, if Australia had the same immigration policies as Israel, right ?

What I meant is for the main part, they get a free pass in this thread. I am reasonably certain that some posters don't want the grief that is associated with posting in support of human rights in this thread. I gave up for a while. It is only the plight of the children that has driven me back to posting. To not only be confronted by the same old justifications for Isreals actions in Gaza, but also people posting in support of bigoted, Xenophobic people. I don't watch the news regularly, I am already struggling with my mental health. However when I do, the footage coming out of Gaza is heartbreaking in regards to seeing the suffering of the kids. I understand the human condition well. I have studied history for over 50 years. After WW2, we as a species, had apparently evolved in regards to a rules based order, and the formation of International Humanitarian Law, which was based in part on the horrific events in WW2. I used to tell mum she had seen the best of times after WW2, through to the 90's. Life expectancy went up. Nations like ours starting spending our money(taxes), on the healthcare of our citizens. I will always remember seeing an interview with one of the founders of the NHS in Britian, and how he stated that he believed that if they could spend billions during the war killing people, surely they could spend a bit on the healthcare of British citizens. After years of life expectancy going up around the world, between 2019 - 2021 life expectancy fell by 1.6 years. From 73.3 to 71.7. As I have stated before what is the most precious thing we have apart from the people we love... time. 1.6 years may not seem like much time however every second we live is precious. We are going backwards in many parts of the world. Far right authoritarian leaders are popping up everywhere. Even where they are not in charge, right wing fringe elements aren't as fringe as they once were. Like there is a chance that the biggest idiot of them all will be elected to be the " head " of the worlds largest economy, and the most powerful military force on this planet. And we all know the consequences if that happens. And you have nothing to be sorry about my friend.

Sources with questionable reliability ? I quoted his own words. His own words condemn him as an Islamaphobe, and for being Xenophobic. Unlike you Roman, I provide links to evidence to back up my claims. Most of the time you provide us with your opinions. Just finished watching a movie about some real Jewish heroes, the Bielski Brothers. They were instrumental in saving over 1,200 Jewish lives during WW2. Here is an interview with Aron and his wife https://www.jns.org/a-conversation-with-aron-bielski-last-of-the-bielski-brothers/ Henryka Bielski " We should love each other. Doesn't matter what is your skin colour, what is your religion. You should always be nice to each other. We're all sharing the same Earth, same sun and same moon. We're sharing everything. Love everybody, be nice to everybody " Aron Bielski " People should be nice to each other, to help each other, whoever needs help. Be good to your family and people. If you see a person needs help, help him or her. Because the good lord will know about it. " I can guarantee you, any research you do, will provide you with evidence that these values aren't what David Murray preaches. Quite the opposite is some circumstances. The name of the Movie is Defiance. I highly recommend it to all.

The Detroit Redwings recall Alex Turcotte.

7.5 million Jews have a safe place in America. Almost as many as there are in Israel. 100,000 Jews have a safe place here in Australia. Over 335,000 Jews have a safe place in Canada. 271,000 Jews have a home in England and Wales. ETC....ETC Why should we hold China to account ? Why should they be any different from what they are now ? Why should any country not be held to the same standards we hold ourselves to ? Please provide me with evidence of anyone with the power in Israel, that wants to do anything about implementing a two state solution. I have provided plenty of evidence that for the better part of the last 20 years, Netanyahus administrations have been directly working against a two state solution. This is common knowledge. This is why he built up Hamas' in the first place. You realise that Isreal has gone backwards since it was created, democratically wise. Especially in the last 20 years. The fundamentalists have taken over from the more liberal minded Isrealis that helped create the state of Israel, and used to run the country. Like they have a convicted terrorist in their government ffs. There are more religious nut jobs than ever in the Knesset. There is even less seperation of church and state than there has ever been. Again whose fault is it that the mullahs are in charge in Iran. The British and Americans that's who. They helped overthrow a democratically elected government. Again screw Hamas'. And screw the Bin Salman's, all of them. They are despots. Anyway, thanks for the polite, respectful discussion. I respect your ideas and views.

Cheers brother. Thanks for the kind thoughts and words. Hit a freakin stump riding my MTB during the week, fractured my toe. Don't like or want pain killers, that's why I am up at 3 am posting.

Whatabout ? I hold all countries, and all people to the same account I hold myself, treat others, the way I want to be treated. What has the extermination of Jewish people have to do with their ultra nationalism ? Not interested in those that support Hamas'. I do not. Still as I have mentioned, in that Four Corners report, an ex head of the Shin Bet was asked what we he do if he was a Palestinian, he replied, he would fight, when asked how " dirty " he would fight, he replied, I would do what it takes. This is in regards to Palestinian Freedom, Statehood. I posted the episode. So you are saying that we should have kept the white Australia policy to keep the Australian identity as white Caucasian ? Should we kick out the 100,000 Jews here in Aus ? They don't solely identify as Australians. What is a Canadian Identity ? Don't you get that this racial " identity" is bullshit. What do you think of the Nazis Aryan " identity" How is this different from a distinct Jewish identity ? They are both distinct racial identities. They are both ultra nationalist Ideologies. I know you don't like religion. This " Jewish " identity is a religious based idea. It is based on the belief that a god chose them. Roman used a mythical religious text to justify Isreali/Jewish ownership of Jerusalem. That a God gave them the land of Israel, according to said mythological religious text. What are your thoughts on this ? Again whatabout. I have criticised Saudi Arabia. Screw Mohammad bin chainsaw and his fucked up society where women are second class citizens. I have pointed out if it wasn't for western meddling back in the 50's, Iran could have been a very different place under their democratically elected government. However screw those nut job religious dudes that run that country. Other places such as Qatar and UAE are probably not as free as Isreal. So what ? They aren't killing thousands of Isrealis and starving hundreds of thousands more. That doesn't change the fact that Israel is an ultra nationalist state run by far right nutjobs at this time. That is what Fascism is. I know you don't support fascism.

You bet I work fast to counter far right conspiracy theorist nut jobs. This is a British publication https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/douglas-murray-mainstreaming-great-replacement-theory " Conspiracy Theory In the Strange Death of Europe Murray warns " that Europe is committing suicide. Or at least it's leaders have decided to commit suicide. " In a thoughtful essay Jonathan Portes, professor of economics at king's college London called Murray's book, essentially an intellectual version of the ' great replacement conspiracy theory ' advocated by white nationalists here and in the US - that liberal elites are plotting the demographic transformation of western societies. " " One of Murray's bigger targets is Islam. In 2006 he told the Dutch parliament that " conditions for Muslims in Europe must be made harder across the board: Europe must look like a less attractive proposition " He also said, " all immigration into Europe from Muslim countries must stop " These are his literal words. Far right leaders like Marie Le Pen, Victor Orban and Gert Vilders admire this guy. Keep on posting defending your Islamaphobic, xenophobic buddy. Edit I can't believe you posted a Piers Morgan video and expect to be taken seriously.