Ilunga

While I agree with some of what you are stating, I don't really think this is important. What I believe is important and what I really care about is millions of people are going hungry. Isreals accusations against the UNRWA are contributing to this. Like I don't know what else to say mate, I find this situation heartbreaking.

Makes me miss our old friend who used to post videos of this band all the time on the old board. It's frustrating the cognitive decline I am experiencing due to all the concussions I have experienced. I just can't remember that posters user name. It's on the tip of my tongue. He was a very regular contributor to the watcha listening to thread. Edit I just remembered his username Gollumpos

The important point of all this IMO is that 1.1 people, according to that abc news article, are on the brink of famine. Children are not getting enough to eat. Currently this ranks as one of the worlds biggest humanitarian crises. This came up at the top of my google feed when I searched Gaza humanitarian Crisis. " A catastrophic lack of food in Gaza means that families are going for days without a meal - 2.2 million people the entire population of Gaza - is experiencing food insecurity at crisis level or above. The World Food Programme is already warning that the threat of famine in Gaza is looming " One article states 1 million people, the other over 2 million. What is patently obvious is that there is a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Who cares about the " nobility" of the Turkish or any other country that wants/or is donating aid to the Palestinian people. The fact that they are donating aid and that aid is being held up due to accusations, that so far lack any evidence to back them up, is what I am questioning. Why should millions of people be punished like this for the actions of a few ? I believe this is wrong. What I am also questioning is due process, the lack thereof. Providing evidence to back up your accusations, especially when so many are being " punished " as a consequence of those accusations.

Every single post you make it personal, insulting me, stating I come across as offensive and patronizing. Seeing as you have experience with people with autism I would have hoped you would be more understanding of my condition. I had already dealt with the rest of your post by stating in a previous post that I believe it is wrong that the majority should pay the price for the actions of a few. You actually agreed with me, stating , " no I don't agree with that " What you then went on to say was something about terrorists and airports. I don't know what that had to do with what we were discussing, and I still don't. This is why I didn't reply to that part of your post. Also I believe that it is obvious that I wouldn't want my son or friends in the company of terrorists. When you talk about the reality of the situation. It is not only the Palestinian employees of UNRWA that are paying the price for the actions of its also the Palestinians people themselves. " Israeli is holding up food for 1.1 million Palestinian in Gaza, the main UN agency there says. " https://abcnews.go.com/Health/wireStory/israel-holding-food-11-million-palestinians-gaza-main-107101377 " UNRWA's director Phillipe Lazzarini said Friday that a convoy of food donated by Turkey has been sitting for weeks in the Israeli port of Ashdod. The agency said that the Isreali contractor they work with received a call from Israeli custom authorities, ordering them not to process any UNRWA goods. The stoppage means that 1049 shipping containers of rice, flour, chickpeas, sugar and cooking oil - enough to feed 1.1 million people for a month - are stuck, even as an estimated 25 percent of families face catastrophic hunger. The World Program warned Friday that Gaza could be plunged into famine as early as may. The UN food agency defines a famine as when 30 percent of children are malnourished, one fifth of households face acute food shortages and two of every 10,000 people are dying from hunger and malnutrition. " Then there is also those accusations Israel made, which is all they are, about UNRWA people being involved in the October the 7th attack. " Scandal Israeli dossier provides no evidence for claims against UNRWA staff " https://www.commondreams.org/news/israel-dossier-unrwa " An Israeli dossier that more than a dozen countries have cited to justify cutting off funding to the United nations Palestinians refugee agency " provides no evidence " that a small number of the key UN aid body's employees were involved in the October 7 lead Hamas attack according to an investigation released Monday by the British outlet channel 4. The dossier merely states that, from intelligence information, documents and identity cards seized during the course of fighting, it is now possible to flag around 190 Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terrorists operatives who serve as UNRWA employees. More than 10 UNRWA took part in the events of (October 7) reads the six page dossier which Isreal provided to UNRWA donor countries - including the agencies top contributor the United States - shortly after the international court of justice (ICJ) handed down an interim decision ordering Israel to take concrete steps to prevent genocide in the Gaza strip " Happy coincidence that, Israel handing over that dossier just after the ICJ's ruling. " Chanel 4 noted Monday that all 13,000 of UNRWA's Gaza employees' names " have been checked against the UN terrorism list and, as recently as May, were vetted and approved by Israel. " " UNRWA staff accused by Israel of sacked without evidence chief admits " https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/feb/09/head-of-unwra-says-he-followed-reverse-due-process-in-sacking-accused-gaza-staff " The head of the UN agency for Palestinian refugees has said he followed " reverse due process " in sacking 9 staff members accused by Israel of being involved in Hamas' October 7 attacks. Phillipe Lazzarini UNRWA's commissioner general said he did not prove Israel's claims against the employees before dismissing them and launching an investigation. At a press conference in Jerusalem Lazzarini was asked if he had looked into whether there was any evidence against the employees and he replied " no the investigation is going on now " For full disclosure as I don't want to take the time to copy all the rest of the article he does try to justify his decision by stating the " explosive " nature of the claims and the long running claims against the UNRWA. Do you think it is fair to be the victim of reverse due process in regards to not just your job but being called a Terrorist ? I don't. Now so far these have been only accusations, no evidence has been provided to back them up. They might be true, they might not be. I thought we live in societies where we punish people when they are convicted of the crime they are accused of. Part of that process is providing evidence to prove they are indeed guilty of what you are accusing them of. Especially when over a million people are paying such a high price for the alleged actions of a few.

Isreali soldiers ? There was no Israeli soldiers talking on that video. There was just a person making claims with no evidence to back them up. He lost me when he started speaking about Palestinians and Isreals Arab neighbours, stating " there is going to have be an acceptance and acknowledgement of the fact that god designated this land, the land of Israel for the Jewish people If they can't believe that this is what the will of God is " Then he suggests that the above is part of the ultimate solution and path to peace. Here is the same dude talking about some Talmudic end of times shit

I have stated that Isreal stealing land is one of the root causes As I have also pointed out, the status of Jerusalem is another major cause of dispute. I have also stated, many times this is a circle of hatred that is trauma driven. All of these reasons are major contributing factors to this never ending conflict. Even the Irish, those contentious mfers have managed to get their shit together. Sinn Feins Michelle O'NEILL was named First Minister of Northern Ireland, making history. The truth is the truth, just as factual information is either factual or not. As I have stated I do my best to research any topic I am interested in thoroughly. As I have also stated, I am always prepared to take others input onboard, and if they provide me with information that is factual I am always willing to learn. In the scheme of things the amount of knowledge any one of us will accumulate is a drop in the ocean in regards to the amount of information there is. How did the storm affect you ? We didn't have power for nearly 2 days and have only got the internet and my phone connection back up in the last few hours.

So I am not allowed to state that I love facts with out you or anyone else taking offence ? That I can't question whether people value the truth ? Did I state that you don't like facts ? Did I state that you don't value the truth ? No I did not, please don't accuse me of doing something I did not do. Try researching what the effects Asperger's syndrome has on some one. How they can get very focused on certain things, in this case factual information and truth. Which has been a constant in my life. As for the rest it's easy to say reality sucks when you're not a victim of the reality our discussion has been about.

You know, you are right. What's the point. A few of us believe that Palestinians and Israelis have the right to a state of their own. A lot of others don't apply the same rules to the Israelis that they do to the Palestinians. Certain posters make it personal attacking others, mocking their desire to live in a free, peaceful and just world. One of them has a habit of doing this regularly, slandering people, having to be warned by the mods to restrain himself. Often treating others who don't agree with his position with contempt. You made it personal with me, saying I had a " blind spot " because I thought I was a good person and all the land in Australia is stolen, and because I supposedly think I am a good person the rules I apply to others don't apply to me. I provided evidence that the Australian people have acknowledged first nations ownership of Australia and in particular the land I live on. Also, how is what has happened here in Australia hundreds of years ago, relevant to what is happening in Israel, Gaza and the occupied territories now ? And as for me being a good person, that's for others to determine, not me. My preexisting position is simple, treat others the way I wish to be treated myself. It becomes even more important to do this when those around you don't behave this way. Both at an individual and societal level. I am very concerned with accuracy and truth. The information I post, many of it from Israeli sources I believe to be accurate. I always try and find several sources that confirm each other. The bottom line IMO in regards to this particular phase of the conflict, is does one believe that killing thousands of women and children, destroying a large percentage of homes and infrastructure in Gaza, is an appropriate response to the events of October 7. Not only do I believe that this response is disproportionate, I like many others who have followed this conflict for decades, believe that that it will only hurt both the Israeli and Palestinian people in the long run. Over the course of this thread I have posted articles and videos about Israelis and Palestinians working for a peaceful resolution to this conflict. I know certain posters are being derogatory when they call me a pacifist, using words like utopian. I wear these labels proudly.

This thread brings out the worst in people. I have defended both the Israelis and Palestinians right to live in free and just societies. I have defended all peoples human rights, on this and the old board for years. I am fucking sick and tired of the personal attacks and slurs on my character. I am fucking Autistic. How that expresses itself in relation to how I hold a discussion is that I am blunt, forthright and I speak my mind. If this offends people I apologise. I am unfailing polite, have virtually never made it really personal with another member. Express compassion and empathy for others. What you see is what you get with me. I will say to your face, what I state on this discussion board.

You know what is said when people make a discussion personal instead of sticking to the topic at hand. You labelled a person an anti-Semite, that's a serious accusation. If you said that to my face, I am going to be pretty pissed to say the least. Now you have labelled me argumentative, on a discussion board that is pure gold. Now you are accusing me of grandstanding ? Why are you making this personal ? When I made the mistake of getting a bit personal with @Bob Long, I apologised, twice. This is a 378 page thread, were a discussion has been going on for over 4 months. I can't remember everything that is posted. As I have explained I have trouble with my memory due to the amount of serious concussions I have experienced in my life. Are you going to make a personal issue out of this ? I simply asked for clarification in regards to your views on the human rights of the Palestinians.

I post facts and I am just being argumentative....sigh I posted facts from 2 Isreali sources in response to a claim made by another. I made no judgement nor did I try to justify, the actions of the 10 percent that have links to Hamas, or even the UNRWA itself. It's like living in an alternative universe where facts, reason and logic don't seem to matter.

I am not implying anything except for the fact that I value the truth. So just to be clear,because I don't want to offend you (seriously), do you believe that a majority of people should pay the price for the actions of a few ? We are not just labelling these people as criminals, being labelled a terrorist is a far more serious accusation. Would you like this to happen to you if you were innocent ? I certainly wouldn't. If you lost your job, and more importantly had your good name questioned how would you feel ? This is exactly what that article I posted about empathy was about. Putting yourself in other people's shoes.

I could quite easily call you an anti- semite due to some your views on the Palestinians in regards to defending Israel's actions against them. Correct me if I am wrong, but have you ever defended the human rights of the Palestinians ? You do realise that the Palestinians are semites themselves ? Why are people, who defend the human rights of the Palestinian people, labelled by some as anti-Semites ? Especially when some of those people defend the human rights of the Israeli/Jewish people themselves ? Me, as is commonly known, defend the human rights of all the people I share this planet with.

Mate, I love these things called facts. There is a massive difference between 10 percent and 80 percent especially when you are talking about 12,000 people. That's a difference of 7000 people. I guess it gets down to whether you value the truth or not. Would you like to be called a Terrorist if you weren't one ? Especially if it involved losing your job ? And this is not the only incident of misinformation that has been put out there by Israel. Don't get me wrong, Hamas does the same thing. Here is some of the Bullshit Hamas has propagated. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-gaza-misinformation-fact-check-e58f9ab8696309305c3ea2bfb269258e I think it was @Gurn that first used this adage, in this thread " In war, truth is the first casualty "

I have always stated that the Germans and the Japanese lost the war, but " won " the peace. The example I am making is the success of their economies post WW2 One of the big reseasons for this is the strong work ethic those people's had/ have. Another is that especially the Germans were/are great design engineers and build quality products. The Japanese took others ideas in regards to products and manufacturing processes, and made better, cheaper products than their western counter parts. The success of their economies led to a better quality of life for the " average " person in those countries. In regards to the Palestinians, as I keep stating we have to replace their current Ideology with better ideas that provide them with a better quality of life. Give people hope and you will change their lives, and their Ideology.

Sigh.... It's not a matter what I want to say, it's a matter of what the facts are. I researched your claim and that is the information I came up with. I am not saying this, Israeli sources are stating this.

Big time respect for you brother, for you thoughts on compassion. I have also posted thoughts along these lines. " You can't kill an ideology with a bullet, you can only kill it with a better idea " Queen Rania of Jordan I am a voracious reader. I am very lucky to have a couple of second hand book shops reasonably close to home. I posted this article a week or two ago. I learnt of this book from this article. I have asked one of those shops to get a hold of a copy for me. It's The Ideology; How to Defeat Islamist Terrorism Once and For All https://potomacinstitute.org/reports/39-books/117-new-release-it-s-the-ideology-how-to-defeat-islamist-terrorism-once-and-for-all-2 " Kill that ideology and we kill the terror that it breeds. But we cannot kill ideas with bombs and bullets - we can only kill them with better ideas " " Empathy is dying and so are we " https://www.thesmujournal.ca/editor/empathy-is-dying-and-so-are-we " However there appears to be a decline in human empathy over the years. For example one psychology study surveyed American University students and reported a 48 percent decrease in between levels of empathy between 1979 and 2009. Imagine that: this sample portrayed half the level of empathy they once had 30 years ago. Overall scientists are reporting a generational decrease in empathy and a rise in narcissism around the world, particularly in the west. " At the same time we see an unprecedented and alarming rise in xenophobia racism and misogyny around the world that has even generated the concerned attention of the United Nations. " " As our empathy decreases we pay less attention to others around the globe who are suffering, provide less support, and carry on with our lives while millions die. " " In a 2011 study researchers reported strong desensitisation effects only to violent media content. As humans we innately react to violence with fear. With repeated exposure to violence, the fear reaction decreases in strength to habituation to the violence. In turn we lose the adverse reactions and become desensitised meaning we don't respond with anxious arousal in response to media violence. Another study found that desensitisation to violence in the news led to reduced emotional reactivity and diminished empathy. When you respond less emotionally, it's hard to understand other people's emotions and imagine what they are experiencing. "

You accused me of something I didn't do and you don't have the courage to admit you were wrong. People who know my posting history know my bias is that all people have the right to live in free and just societies. To be treated equally. I have quoted MLK many times That I judge a person by the content of their heart, not the colour of the skin. As I have stated many times, in many threads one of the few things I hate, hate is such a waste of emotion, is racism I post a lot of facts/ evidence like my reply to your post above this. If you don't agree with those facts/evidence provide facts/evidence to counter my claims. I also post rational, logical arguments to support my position that both the Israeli and Palestinian people have the right to live in free and just societies and have the right to self determination. It's incumbent on anyone that disagrees with that view, they provide rational, logical arguments as to why they don't agree with this. You accuse me of bias ? I have always wondered if you are one of these people " Israel to pay students to defend it online " https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/08/14/israel-students-social-media/2651715/

Really ? Isreali source " Systematic Witch Hunt What Persecution of Arab - Israelis Looks Like Amid Gaza War " " Arrests, interrogations, firings, expulsion from college - Arab citizens are being targeted Israeli security officials and even by their own co-workers in a recent wave of incidents that threaten to tear apart the delicate fabric of Israeli society " https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2023-11-02/ty-article-magazine/.highlight/systematic-witch-hunt-what-persecution-of-israeli-arabs-looks-like-amid-gaza-war/0000018b-90db-db7e-af9b-fbdb254e0000

Still waiting for you to admit you were wrong. You basically called me a liar. So an apology would be appropriate as well.

80 percent of UNRWA were Hamas people ? Not according to this Israeli source "Approximately 10 percent of UNRWA employees in Gaza have ties to Hamas Islamic Jihad WSJ Reports " https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/2024-01-29/ty-article/wsj-about-10-percent-of-unrwa-employees-in-gaza-have-ties-to-hamas-islamic-jihad/0000018d-5565-d8cc-a1fd-576f89eb0000 Another Israeli source " Israeli Intel shows that 10 percent of UNRWA workers in Gaza have ties to Terror Groups " https://www.timesofisrael.com/israeli-intel-shows-10-of-unrwa-workers-in-gaza-have-ties-to-terror-groups-report/

I don't know what to say. One asks a question, to get an answer. Hopefully a definitive answer. If you feel I haven't answered a question you have asked me, ask me directly again. One asks so many questions in this thread about people respecting their governments and the worlds views on the ilegal settlements, and one doesn't get an answer. I just asked a regular contributor to this thread if he considered Isreal, Gaza and the occupied territories as Israel, when he referred to ' all of Isreal ", and I didn't get an answer. So many more unanswered questions. Brother I will fight for people's right to believe pink pigs fly if that makes them happy. I gave you an answer about my views on people's right to hold religious beliefs. I stated, as I have many times on both boards that I will defend people's right to do(believe in) whatever they fuck they want so long as they don't impact(fuck with others)in a negative manner. And there's the catch, many religious people believe that their beliefs, give them the right to infringe on the rights of others. I also stated I that those " holy sites " in the "holy land " have caused so much pain and suffering through the millenia. Again as I have already stated, I believe that religion at a congregational level can be a good thing. My parents congregation was a great example of this. People that actually lived up to the messages that are contained in those allegories. What I am 100 percent certain of, is that there should be seperation of church and state. And geopolitical decisions aren't made in accordance with religious beliefs and mythical texts that were written thousands of years ago. This song sums up my feelings on religion, those that believe the allegorical characters. Governments and " our religion" The " religion " mentioned in the last four lines. " Religion the opiate of the masses But when they talk about god they make him sound like a fascist Jesus Christ was a pacifist Half the shit they do in his name would probably make him pissed Yet they still hold out with the same old line of bullshit Placate the masses tap into their wallets How the hell can you tell me about the afterlife You haven't been there and check neither have I Cause morality don't need no government And the system that they run I got no love for it So I dedicate my life to music And when it hits you know I don't refuse it Me I found my salvation here on earth I roll the tape on my 24 track church " Jaya the Cat

People talk about courage in battle Barney. And you ask a very rational question, could you do this voluntarily ? I will relate this story which I have told before on the old board. I would like to believe I would have the courage to do this even though I would be risking the lives of my family in doing so. I grew up with a friend who lived just down the road. His mum grew up in Holland during the Nazi occupation in WW2. Her parents, like many families in Europe, made the choice to hide a Jewish family in their home. If the (Jewish) family was discovered, both families would be taken outside and shot. Imagine living with the constant fear that you will be caught. That to me is real courage right there. This is the " quiet" sort of courage you don't hear much about. There are no medals awarded. No real honours. You simply know you have done the right thing. This is a moral quandary. As parents, do we have the right to risk the lives of our kids ? I certainly know that my son is now old enough to know the lesson I would be teaching him by acting in this manner. In all facets of our lives, the best anyone one of us can strive to do, is do the right thing. Not for honour, not for glory, not for any rewards. Simply because doing the right thing, is the right thing to do.

Yes using people as human shields is not just wrong, it is a war crime. I not just condemn Hamas for doing this, it has cost the lives of so many women and children which really upsets me to say the least. Some one should tell this to the Israeli soldiers on the West Bank, that used this guy as a human shield. https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-says-israeli-soldiers-used-him-human-shield-west-bank-2024-01-16/ And while this was nearly 20 years ago " Israeli high court bans military of Palestinians as human shields" https://www.theguardian.com/world/2005/oct/07/israel " The Isreali high court yesterday ruled that the Army's long standing practice of using Palestinian civilians as human shields in combat is ilegal under international law " There have been other documented cases since then, including the article above, where the IDF still uses this tactic.

This is perfect example why the regular season doesn't mean much in team sports. If you have teams like KC that just have to get to the post season, they know and more importantly believe they can get shit done.