Ilunga

People who can't contribute equally, cannot be treated equally ? So just because a person might not work as hard as you do, then they are not entitled to the same human rights and freedoms you have ? That's what I mean by people being treated equally. Too many people not willing to pull their weight ? Most economists state when you are down to 3-4 percent unemployment, most of the " employable " people have jobs. Here in Aus we are at 3.9 percent unemployment. And what about the underdeveloped/ third world countries, where they not only don't have the opportunities we do, in some cases western countries exploit their workforce. You really should do some research before stating things that are incorrect. Russia does not have a communist government. It has been described as variously, as a kleptocracy, an oligarchy or a Plutocracy. It is a Crony capitalistic government. https://www.jstor.org/stable/j.ctvgc61tr https://www.forbes.com/sites/arielcohen/2019/05/31/russias-oily-and-gassy-crony-capitalism-the-path-to-kleptocracy/ Fat Mike is a capitalist ? For starters he started his own record label so he could pay the bands he signed to it more than the big companies. Fat records used to sell their records and CD's cheaper than the big record companies before streaming fucked them all. And he donates a percentage of profits he makes to charities of various sorts. He lives and dresses much the same as he did when he started 40 years ago. If as you claim you have play with them and are conversant with the Punk scene, you would know this. No just stop it. People have not lived what I have am talking about. How many times does it have to be said that communism has been a failed experiment because it doesn't take into account human nature. Marx's ideas have never truly been put into practice. Capitalism has taken human nature into account, it rewards greed. But of course you will find justification for the fact that in the the US, 20 percent of the population controls 86 percent of the wealth, while 80 percent of the population controls 14 percent of the wealth. Those 20 percent work so much harder right ? Just like those bankers that caused the GFC and then took taxpayers money, to not only bail out their institutions, but fund their own bonuses after destroying millions of people's lives, who lost their jobs, their wealth and their homes in many cases. As for the rest, stop projecting on me. You are the person complaining and telling us all what your rights should be. I have not called for a communist government, please quote me where I stated this. I simply stated the five economic ideas that Marx wrote about, are ideas I admire. And you have stated that you agree with some of them. So why your head is hurting has nothing to do with me. Maybe its because you can't interpret my posts correctly. The only thing I have complained about is the fact that globally, 1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth, while the " bottom" 50 percent of the population holds .75 of the wealth. Betcha if you were in that bottom 50 percent you wouldn't be very happy about it.

Brother that is not limited to Russian schools. American schools try and hold onto or others try and poach the higher achieving students in regards to funding. Raise your grade average and you get more funding. Again I have stated many times that communism doesn't take into account human nature, but capitalism sure does, it rewards greed. As for Russia spreading propaganda, it is certainly not " communist" propaganda. Russia stopped being a communist society over 30 years. It has been described as a kleptocracy, an oligarchy maybe a plutocracy. It's basically a crony capitalist economic system.

I am well versed in the life of the Russian peasants under the Tsars. And I am very certain that there was an improvement in the quality of life for Russian peasants sometime after the revolution. Take for instance serfdom, a really fucked up form of slavery. Unlike a slave, serf could only be sold together with the land they were " attached to. This practice stopped in the 19th century and they were simply treated as slaves. On that point alone the revolution had a positive effect on people's lives. Anyone who has any knowledge of Russian history knows that slight, though that may be, life improved for the Russian people after the Revolution. My history teacher actually gave me a book about the Russian revolution when I was 13, after I expressed an interest in Lenin and Trotsky. I get it you hate Russia and I don't blame you. The Russians are a weak people, easy to control people. Some Psychologists state this is because they are born into a harsh climate/ environment so many of them are coddled and grow up accepting the " Yoke". Me, I know they have never really been a " free" people, the way we know freedom.

Yes it's working for me to. It still blows me away that people buy flowers, a highly disposable product. My mum did tell me, when I asked why they, my parents chose to grow flowers when they already had high paying professional jobs, that apart from loving it, in the great depression, she lived through it, if people had a bit to spare, they bought some extra food and invited people around, and those people if they had a bit to spare bought flowers. Covid was good for me to, after an initial crash, prices picked up and flowers sold well. Things are pretty tough at the moment, with the cost of living and way more competition for the disposable dollar, flowers have been getting harder to sell. That's farming full stop. You have your good years and bad and average years. As I have stated, what I have an issue with is the fact that globally, 1 percent of the population controls 50 percent of the wealth, while the " bottom " 50 percent of the population controls .75 percent of the wealth. That's pretty messed up in my books. As for the bums comment, according to most economists when you are getting down to 3 - 4 percent unemployment, that's pretty much most of the " employable" work force being employed. As of mid December last year, we here in Aus sit at 3.9 unemployment rate. Your comment makes me think of the Everlast song " We've all seen the man at the liquor store begging for your change The hair on his face is dirty, dreadlocked, and full of mange He asks for what you can spare with shame in his eyes Get a job you fuckin slob, is all he replies God forbid you ever had to walk a mile in his shoes Cause then you really might know what it's like to sing the blues "

I am sure he endeared himself to many Canadians when he referred to Canada as a " frozen communist shithole "

I missed this. This song is considered politically incorrect these days however he is not a rascist and I think it's funny as fuck. The first time I heard this was nearly 40 years ago in Cairns. There were these south Australians camped next to us the fresh water caravan park. They played it as we were sitting round our campfire. I was that stoned and laughed that hard, I fell backwards and dropped six feet into the river behind our camp.

He is another Israeli voice that will be ignored not only in the world, but in this thread. So many Isrealis themselves state what he is saying, I have provided the evidence as you now are.

I, and others have commented on this. I get knocked for being a person who believes in trying to use peaceful means to achieve change, however isn't it that sort of person we want from the Palestinian population, advocating for them ? A Palestinian MLK or figure like him ? Not people who use violence as a means to try and initiate change.

Don't get me wrong brother, I am not telling anyone else how to view their or their relatives actions in war, or the medals they were awarded. My views have been shaped by my father's words and thoughts and by my own conscience. As for the people I chose to surround myself with, as I stated in reply to a post from Sharpie. The only criteria I have in my friends is that they have a good heart. I don't care what you own, or what you have achieved, it's the kind of person you are that matters. That's the legacy we all leave behind. People won't come to your funeral/visit your grave, because you were rich or because you were a world champ, they will come because you made an impression on them. Being kind, compassionate and that you cared about others. Speaking about that, when I went to NOFX's last gig, last weekend, I sat next to my friend and a girl on the other side, she was on her own. Me being me, I talked to her a bit, talking about the meaning behind some of their songs, just being friendly. When my friend rang me a couple of days later for my birthday, he told me, that she told him, as we were leaving, that I made her night. I only met this person for a few hours and that was the impression I left. In my book, that's being a successful person.

While we do have Tafe and it's free not everyone is in the position to access it. I am not trying to paint a picture of fortunate advantage, actually the opposite, those who have unfortunate circumstances. I didn't state my friend had an extra property, I stated that he built a bungalow on his property for his son. I do apologise for reading your comment wrong, thinking you had an extra property. As for your Communist bullshit comment, you haven't provided any rational, logical arguments why people should not Be treated equally That Every citizen has a job There is an eternally stable economic system Strong social communities should be established And there should be an efficient distribution of resources And you have failed to comment on the fact that under current economic conditions 1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth, while the poorest 50 percent of the population holds .75 percent of the wealth. Tell me do you think this is a fair and just situation ? You have also failed to acknowledge that I have now stated twice, that a mixture of the best parts of all economic theories, would be the probably be the best answer in relation to an economic model. And where did I say poor me ? Go check the Canada population thread, I stated that I have lived a life most can only dream of. Check the music thread, people have thought my life is interesting enough they felt the need to tell others about. And out of the rad things I have done, bikes, cars, 20 years of ski- bumming, a chunk of them around the world, couch surfing. Five of the happiest years of my life was when I was sleeping in the back of my car at Mt. Hotham skiing every day, hanging out with my friends and generally living the dream. No poor me. Very lucky me on so many more levels than that.

You have talked about this story before however I think you go deeper into the circumstances this time around. I think it was when you first mentioned this, I did more research on the " red " and " white " Finn's. I have also seen the movies, The Unknown Soldier, The Winter War, Rukajarven tie, and I have also seen the doco on Simo Haya, for those that don't know he is considered of of the deadliest snipers in history. As I have stated brother, we have these free to air Chanel's SBS, three of them including a 24 hour world movie chanel. Here is the link to the " on demand " ie streaming. https://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/ If this doesn't work just go to Google app store, they have they app. So many good docos, series, movies from all over the world. As for medals I used to hold my dad's in some form of esteem however he stated he wasn't proud of what he did. It was just a dirty job that had to be done. He said most of his fellow soldiers felt the same way. He said that while some of them did say it did get easier to kill the enemy, it did damage something inside of them for want of a better word. I have no plans to give them to Lachie. Lachie was only 11 months old when dad died. I wish he was old enough to remember the kind, gentle man I knew and remember. My mum was the geanologist in our family. I find it hard to find a connection to people I never even knew and had no real ties to at all. Every single person who I have ever loved in any form has had no biological ties to me. It's not biology that ties people together, its actions. I grew up with a few of my friends whose biological fathers beat them and their mothers up. Biology ain't love.

You first point I have brought up in many posts in the past. And probably before you were born, if you are younger than 46, that was when I first the the communist manifesto, 46 years ago and shortly afterwards came to the conclusion that it like all, economic systems are ineffective in delivering any form of equality, they don't take human nature into account. And good on you, you had access to to good education, you are a very lucky person. 3.3 million people including over 760,000 kids live under the poverty line here in Aus. Even with people like myself who sponsor a " Smith family" child, I sponsor 2, many of these kids will never be as fortunate as you have been. You claim you know the struggle, yet you state you have an extra property ? Sounds like you are really struggling. Maybe like a lady that was living in her car with her 2 kids I met a few years back ? Check a more recent post where I stated that a mix (the best parts)of all the economic theories would provide the most efficient and just economic system. And none of what you have stated in your post refutes my claim that People should be considered equal All people should have a job We should have an eternally stable economic system Strong social communities should be established And there should be an efficient distribution of resources Whatever label you want to place on these ideas. Or don't you agree with them ? What do you think of current system, where the richest 1 percent of the worlds population holds 50 percent of the wealth, and the poorest half of the worlds population holds .75 percent of the wealth Me I consider that really fucked up.

First off I just noticed the, there it is, emoji or whatever you call it is gone. That was the response I wanted to use in relation to this post, but I am also a hugger in real life and I love the emotion that emoji conveys. I to consider myself both socialist and a humanist, if you want to apply labels. They don't fully accurately describe all my views however the come closer than other labels. As I used to state to mum, my overriding dynamic/label is to treat others the way you wish to be treated yourself. That covered her " ten commandments ". You don't want to be stolen from, don't steal from others. You don't want to be murdered, don't murder others. Etc. This covers all the different ways human beings interact with each other. That's why some of us call it the golden rule. Your last paragraph really warms my heart and it is exactly how I feel. As for the being a humanist and an argumentative sod, my last post in the God thread was about a guy called Greg Raffin PHD Evolutionary biologist UCLA lecturer in natural sciences courses Has been awarded the Rushdie award for Cultural humanism from Harvard chaplaincy. While he doesn't believe in a god, he states he practices Naturalism. He believes, as I do, that Naturalism is a belief system. Any way what I wanted to say in relation to our discussion is to quote some words from one of his, Bad Religions songs " your obsessed and distressed Cause you can't make any sense of the ludicrous nonsense And incipient senescence That will deem your common sense useless I want to believe in you, but my plan keeps falling through I know I have to face the harshness, and grin and bear the truth And I have to walk this mile in my own shoes I'm a materialist A full blown realist Physical theorist And I guess I'm full of doubt So I'll gladly have it out with you I'm a materialist I ain't no diest It's there for all to see, so don't talk of hidden mysteries with me Like Rome under Nero our futures one big zero Recycling the past to meet immediate needs And through it all we ramble forth with preserve and climb Our mountains of regret to sow out seeds

I listened to that video. It only lasted 30 odd seconds for me. Something about a clash of cultures from memory. I agree that Hamas has to be taken, however who and what is going to replace it. Do you remember that article I posted and what is discussed in relation to trauma. And how it is passed down through the generations. I am living proof of this. My biological mother passed her anxiety onto me in the womb. It is also handed down in the form of memory and the spoken word. This is a trauma driven conflict, the trauma of one violent event leads to another violent event and so on, and on. So many people in positions of power like Josh Paul are stating the Israeli response will only cause more pain for both peoples in the long run. How many " terrorists" will be created by the actions of the Isrealis. I have already posted an article that stated a four star American general, who was very experienced in counter insurgency, claimed that for every civilian killed, 10 terrorists are " created " While it may not be that figure in Gaza, there are going to be a lot of pissed off people who weren't terrorists before, but might consider violence as a means to exact revenge now. That's what Israel is doing, that's the bottom line. It might be a form of justified revenge, however revenge it is. If your child, your brother, your sister some one you loved was killed and you lived in a place where the people who did this weren't held to account, what would you do ? Factor in you are poor and don't have much hope for the future at the same time ?

While the Russian communist dictators lived far better than the people they ruled, the Russian " peasants " quality of life vastly improved compared to life under the Tsars. Their society built up the technological know how to indulge in the space race. They were actually the first to put a person into space. While it could be considered a mix of communism and the free market, over the past 40 years china has lifted 800 million people out of poverty. https://www.worldbank.org/en/news/press-release/2022/04/01/lifting-800-million-people-out-of-poverty-new-report-looks-at-lessons-from-china-s-experience I studied economics at school, I was going to be an accountant before I fucked shit up. The perfect economic theory, in theory, is a mix of all of them. https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/economic-theory-types

A measured response is a really fantastic thing. And no violence does not justify violence in return. Do you believe killing 10,000 kids and destroying 50-60-70 percent of Gaza is a measured response to the October 7th attack ? Many amongst international community do not believe this to be the case. And do you see the pattern here, you state that illegal settler violence dies not justify jihadi behaviour. I am in total agreement. Does the killing of 1200 people, justify killing over 10,000 kids, thousands of women and literally destroying a society in regards to infrastructure and homes ? Being an amateur historian, I know his this will be viewed in 50- 100 years time.

Like fuck me side ways.... How many times do I have to state that just because something hasn't worked yet, why shouldn't we strive to live up to those ideals. Not everyone lives up to my ideal of treating others the way they want to be treated. Does this mean I should give up on my ideals ? Is it wrong of me to believe that everyone should be equal ? That everyone should have a job. There is an eternally stable economic system. That we can have strong social communities. That there is effecient distribution of resources. These are fantastic ideas that should be implemented. I am getting the Senator Joe McCarthy vibes here. Waiting for the witch hunt. Jesus ! There's reds under me fuckin bed !

For starters I am still waiting for you to admit you were wrong in accusing me of " mental gymnastics " in regards to claiming Jews had no historical ties to Israel. As I have already posted before you made that claim, I stated that Solomon built the first temple in 957BC. In many of my posts I state that Jews have had a long connection to the place that is called Isreal, Gaza, and the occupied territories. An apology would be nice to. As for Isreal didn't steal anything, they have been, and are doing it right now. I know you have no respect for international law or the international community, however the international community, including Israel's best friend states, and your and my societies state the Israeli settlements on the west bank are illegal under international law https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/canada-israel-west-bank-reverse-1.6894361 https://www.cnn.com/2024/02/02/middleeast/who-are-israeli-settlers-palestinian-land-intl/index.html And not only that, how about addressing the fact that 374 Palestinians have been killed in the west bank including 94 children " Settler violence in the west bank has also jumped sharply since the war began, with settlers burning cars, destroying infrastructure and assaulting and killing Palestinians " Do you, or anyone else want to confront this issue, or will the Hypocrisy continue. Calling out the Palestinians for their acts of violence but ignoring the acts of violence Israelis commit. As for these Roman records, I am always willing to learn more, knowledge is a precious thing. Can you provide them ?

I am defending those 5 ideas/ ideals Marx wrote about in his book the communist manifesto 1. People are equal 2. Every citizen has a job 3. There is an eternally stable economic system 4. Strong social communities are established 5. Efficient distribution of resources Sign me up. You have read The Communist Manifesto and Das Kapital ? If you have, you would know these are five of the major ideas he advocates for. Or do you find something wrong with those idea's ? How capatlism working out for us ? Go check the cost of living thread and the housing thread to see how people feel. Come over here to Aus and talk to my friends kids, some of whom not only, can only dream of owning a house, in some cases they can't afford to rent. Was taking to my plumber yesterday, he was telling me his daughter and her family are paying $800 a week in rent in Queensland. They are moving back home to live with him. They have already built a bungalow for his son to live in on his property. Good times......right ?

Could have posted this in the Ukraine thread however it is Israel that has given safe haven to this Russian band that is anti-war/putin There is an Aussie connection. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-02-02/aussie-rocker-among-russian-band-bi-2-deported-to-israel/103417928 @Canuck Surfer

Show where I am trying to tell you anything about life in the USSR apart from the fact that people there have never been free ...ever, before or after communist rule. I certainly haven't told you anything about what life was like in the USSR under communist rule. Why do you claim I am doing this ? All I have stated is the ideals that Marx and Engels espoused in their books, are ideals I believe in. I have actually stated that the USSR did not come close to those ideals. That men twisted those ideals to become a form of control. Just because those ideals have never been put into practice properly does not mean those ideals are not worth aspiring to. 1. People are Equal 2. Every citizen has a job 3. There is an eternally stable economic system 4. Strong social communities are established 5. Efficient distribution of resources These are five key things Marx wrote about as you know. Aren't these admirable ideals we should strive for, no matter what you want to call that social/ political system ?

He is not the only historian with this theory. Can you provide me with proof of the events put forth in the first testament ? A book that any rational person knows is a collection of myths and allegories. Well present me with some of this history you are talking about. I always have an open mind. Which by the statements you are making in your post, you don't. I guess that's the difference between you and me, I judge a person by the content of their character. From the research I have done of him, he seems like a decent person, who wants equality for all. And is he still a member of a communist party, it seems he declined an offer by the Maki Israeli communist party to be sent to do cinema studies in Poland in 1982. I can't find any evidence that he has been an active communist since. Uhh I just found out he was a member of a " radical " group the Matzpen, who tried to bring together Arabs and Jews. What a fucked up idea that is. And no he wasn't part of a group of people from that organisation that was a spy ring for Syrian intelligence service.

I have researched Shlomo. He sounds like me, an idealist He believes in the ideals Marx wrote about, not the forms of control men twisted those ideals to become. And none of this has anything to do with the historical facts he presented in that article. I did further research myself, and what he claims can be verified. Tell me, have you read The Communist ,Manifesto and Das Kapital ? Did the society you live in resemble the ideals that Marx and Engels were espousing ? I have read them and I can tell you, that the USSR bore very little resemblance to those ideals being put into practice.

@RomanPer These are the five beneficial ideas that Marx wrote about in his communist manifesto 1. People are equal 2. Every citizen can keep a job 3. There is an eternally stable economic system 4. Strong social communities are established 5. Efficient distribution of resources Sounds fuckin great doesn't it. Sign me up if that was the end result. You know the two big examples of countries that purported to be communist societies ? China and Russia. Two societies where the people had never been free. And guess what ? Russia is no longer considered a communist society and their people still aren't really free, from Tsars, to communist dictators to Putin. And China while is still " ruled" by a communist party it has become an essentially free market economy. One where 95 percent of the populations health care costs are covered by three public insurance programs. Want to talk about that in relation to the world's richest economy, the US, where they can't even look after the health care of a big percentage of their population ?

For starters he is a historian, that's his job, to study and research history. While you and I are amatuer historians our knowledge is no where near as extensive as his. And what Yitzhak Ben Zvi and David Ben Gurion stated weren't their opinions, they stated the peasants of Palestine were the direct descendants of the inhabitants of ancient Judea. These are facts, as uncomfortable as they maybe to you. As for your statement about communism, we have had this discussion before. Just because a person believes in the ideals of Karl Marx, who was also a Jew, doesn't mean they believe in form of control men have twisted those beliefs into. There has never been a regime that resembled anything close to what Marx wrote about in the communist manifesto. But you would know that if you have actually read that book and Das Kapital.