Ilunga

I didn't find any differentiation between the Muslims ? They all lived in the area that as far as I can ascertain was first called Philistia, in 12BCE.

As I have stated, the guy who is considered the founding father of Zionist state was Thomas Herzl. When he died, in 1904, the Zionist organisation had about 100,000 members out of a population of 15 million Jews world wide. Many Jews at that time thought it would be blasphemous to return to Isreal before the messianic era. As for the rest that pertains to the discussion about who has what right to what land in Isreal. I have always defended Isreals right to defend exist. It's their constant illegal settlement/ land grabs in the last 30 odd years are what I am stating is one of the core impediments to a peaceful solution. Edit I am not giving any culture/ people the right to expell anyone. Please quote me were I have stated this.

So you agree with the Zionist slogan ? A country without people, for a people without a country ? When referring to Palestine ? When Herzl had the idea for a Zionist state ? As those 2 rabbis that the Zionists sent to Palestine stated " The bride is beautiful, but she is already married " This was their way of saying to Herzl that there were already people living there. It wasn't a country without people as he and his fellow Zionists were claiming. Herzl wasn't even fully attached to the idea of Zionist state in Palestine to start with, he also wrote a lot about South America, there were Jewish agricultural colonies there. One of his articles was titled, Palestine or Argentina ? I can't find the date those rabbis were sent to Palestine, Herzl died in 1904 so it had to be before then, The demographics of Palestine in 1890, closet year I could find, 43,000 Jews, 57,000 Christians and 432,000 Muslims. And yes the borders were rewritten by the Colonial powers, Britian and France, an agreement I have mentioned many times on both boards, the Sykes - Picot. Again western powers screwing over people, in this case the Arabian tribes.

I stated " Out of their region " meaning the middle east. Isreal is part of the middle east. Again unlike western nations, especially the US, the Arabian states don't have a history of illegally invading/ interfering with the politics of other nations in many other parts of the world including the middle east. What has the rest of your post have to do with the history of the conflict between the Isreali and Palestinians, since the idea for a Zionist/ Isreali state, or the formation of the state of Israel ?

https://www.standing-together.org/english

When I was young dumb and full of ....did everything except Heroin and sticking a needle in my arm. The bikers code, right. The best drug I have ever experienced is riding pow. In 2000 I rode over 280 days between here and Canada. It was an epic season here in Aus. Dropped dargo bowl 2 weeks before opening weekend, bottomless but no base, it took me hours to " swim " out of there. Half the season at least was powder days, it just puked. Picked up niggling injuries but it was too good not to ride. I think those days are gone in regards to climate change. I have never been involved in a lifestyle, except maybe for surfing, where people devote chunks of their lives to chasing pow and living in the bubble of ski resorts, and hiking and camping in the back country.

We had a band at Hotham, just a few of us locals. Played at a bar called Herbie's. This was our drummer before he invented this character. https://www.instagram.com/djeddyhoth/ He was dick tricking before Friendy put puppetry of the penis together. His character then was a fucked up clown called Clivus Multrum which is the name of a composting toilet system in the dunny at the bottom of heavenly valley. I would turn around and see him banging away on the drums with his dick. I was the lead singer, I would take songs like kill all the white men by NOFX and rewrite them about local issues. That song I rewrote to, kill all the lift company, they were trying to get rid of the " bum " element, us. That song was the last of our set, I would start the set dressed up in opp shop clothes from the seventies and strip down to my boxers, screaming out the lyrics. I was told I reminded people of Henry Rollins on speed. I used to tell Herbie, the owner of the bar, that I couldn't believe we could get away with this, back in Melbs they would have probably locked us up. Was living the full ski bum life in those years, sleeping in the back of my car, riding everyday, hangin with my friends, writing songs and generally living the dream.

@Canuck Surfer And further this conflict can't be traced back as far as you are claiming. The guy that had a vision for a Jewish state was a person from Vienna, Theodore Herzl, his/ the Zionist slogan was, a country without a people for a people without a country. Remind you of something ? The got some money together sent a couple of Rabbis over. They came to the conclusion I stated in reply to your post, " The bride is beautiful but she is already married " There were already people living there. Now let's pull apart your assessment of the Arab tribes, you know the tribes the British used in WW1 and then betrayed after the war. Colonial powers drawing up borders without taking into account tribal associations. I suggest you read the Seven Pillars of Wisdom. Written by a englishman that lived and fought with the Arabian tribes. Then after WW2 the west has continually manipulated/interfered with the Arabian states affairs in regards to wanting their oil. Right up until the invasion of Iraq, which was the central reason they invaded that country. https://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/index.html So who has been fucking with who ? Now let's pull apart your claim that these Arab groups would slaughter the Jews, are these the same groups that have been making peace with Isreal for the last few decades ? The Jews/ Isrealis are the current guards ? Have any Arab tribes ever invaded/ interfered with other countries out of their region since their formation ? Say like us, when we illegally invaded Iraq ? The state of Israel did not exist before 1848. The idea for the state of Israel did not exist 50 odd years before that. The conflict between these 2 groups of people did not exist before 1948. Respectfully do you claim to know more that an Jewish Oxford emeritus professor of international relations ? I don't even need him to tell me the obvious, Isreal prefers taking/ stealing land instead of peace. Land grabs and peace don't go together. Do you agree with the international community and many Isrealis themselves when they state that Isreal practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people ? That at the very least, they live under some form of oppression, whatever you want to name it. Personally I only need to use my ability to think critically to come to this conclusion. These are the root causes of this conflict between these 2 groups of people that share a genetic heritage.

" The bride is beautiful but she is already married "

Until those root causes are dealt with by the Isrealis and the Palestinians there will be no end to this conflict full stop. You haven't answered my question, how many innocent people have to die before the cost is to great ? How much destruction of property, peoples homes ? Even if Hamas is removed from the equation who/ what is going to replace them ? The IDF's actions are breeding new generations of people who will feel hate towards the Isreali people. People are stating this is like Isreals 9/11. Well it's just like that in the sense that the people who are paying the price for these acts of terror, aren't the people who committed them.

There would be no independent state of Palestine if many Isrealis had their wish Here are the thoughts of an Isreali/ Jewish emeritus professor of international relations at Oxford University. Some one who is far more well versed in international relations than any of us posters on a hockey forum " Land grabbing and peace making don't go together and by constantly expanding settlements, Isreal has shown that it prefers land to peace " https://thewire.in/world/full-text-israel-palestine-karan-thapar-avi-shlaim No getting lost in those weeds, this is an accurate/ truthful account of what has led us to the point we are at now. To condense all that Avi states us that Isreal consistently chooses to ( take/ steal ) land over peace. I present source after Isreali source, that Isreal has caused, by its actions, this never ending conflict. Of course the Palestinians exacerbate this by their use of violence which I totally condemn.

With respect, you don't deal with any of the points I made in that post. What the IDF is doing is exactly what the young girl stated, increasing support for Hamas, which is what they want. You are correct, stating in previous posts, that Hamas doesn't give 2 fucks about the Palestinian people, however the IDF are playing into their hands. Support for Hamas has dramatically increased since the attacks on Gaza. Also most of the civilised world is now starting to condemn what the IDF are doing in Gaza. This was 2 months ago https://www.cnn.com/2023/11/02/politics/biden-administration-warning-israel-gaza-civilians/index.html How many innocent civilians should die Alf ? Women, children ? Before the cost becomes to great ? There are supposedly 25,000 odd Hamas fighters, this killing has been going on 3 months and there is speculation it could go on for another year. Apart from the Human cost Gaza is being destroyed. You keep claiming that Gaza will be rebuilt, I replied to this with a comprehensive post why this is unlikely to happen. As I stated nobody wants to deal with the root causes of this conflict. I see no difference between this conflict, and the feuds the highland clans used perpetuate. Actually I can see the similarity between the Campells and Hamas.

What's the point mate. I get where Hippy is coming from. Apart from Super 19, this is a one sided discussion. I really admire his courage to stand up against the crowd in the name of his beliefs. Everyone involved has denounced Hamas and the October the 7th attacks, however nobody will discuss some of the root causes, the illegal settlements and the fact that not only the international community, but many Isrealis themselves state that Isreal practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people. In fact people have been finding ways to defend the illegal settlements. We are told that Isreal is a just democracy. What sort of just democracy locks up kids who don't want to fight ? Where they are threatened with murder and rape. https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20240106-israel-s-refuseniks-i-will-never-justify-what-israel-is-doing-in-gaza " The 7th of October changed nothing in either direction she said, it should have been expected, because when you put people under extreme violence, extreme violence will rise back at you " " Since the war started and the horrible violence that has been enacted on the Gazans in Gaza and the destruction of the whole place, it made me surer that we must fight for a different option and that this will never solve anything. And that I have to resist this cycle of bloodshed or it will never end " " Isreals attempts to eradicate Hamas are only making Hamas stronger, because if you offer no alternative to the Palestinians and if they think that it's the only language Isreal knows how to speak and...their only chance at freedom...then, yes, of course they will join Hamas and try violent resistance, Orr said " This is the young woman who has been threatened with murder and rape. Her words make perfect sense to me. My life experiences back them up. Doesn't this make sense to you ? Personally I would be extremely proud of her myself if I was her dad. Her courage to stand up for her beliefs, that I share, is far greater than any of the people who are killing each other on both sides of this conflict. I wish I was as smart as her at her age. More examples of kids who have refused to fight https://observers.france24.com/en/middle-east/20221121-meet-israel-s-teenage-refuseniks-who-refuse-to-enlist-in-the-army What's more powerful brother, guns, or words/ ideas ? The use of guns will continue this circle of hatred, the use of words/ideas has the chance to stop it.

Tell your dad happy birthday from your friend dave in Australia. Just checked out his bibliography, very impressive.

Any one that is interested in motor sports the Paris to Dakar has just started. This is the gnarliest race in the world. People die on a regular basis, get severely fucked up. We get it on free to air, an hour of highlights each evening. https://www.sbs.com.au/sport/dakar-rally-2024

I will talk to Petey about the next game. Mine will be really basic, I mean really basic, I have only my phone and shitty computer skills, however always willing to have a go.

Thanks to everyone for a fuckin great game. I know this is classic sports team talk however I truly believe this was a team effort. Commiserations town, Great job my fellow team mates. Thanks @KZA for hosting a beauty.

Fuck brother I am so sorry. It's moments like this that take me back to when my biological mother gave me away, and my friend shot me. I hate betraying friends.

Alright I have trusted you all game. LOCK VOTE SS

Brother I stated I was poking the bear. In another post I stated my main reason for voting for you was to get some action from you. You have been breaking your golden rule. Don't slank.

Yes, don't know what to make of this. Part of my voting for him was to push him into responding.

Yes simply going on my gut feeling about you and BJ over her, if I was forced to choose now. This is not an excuse, simply a statement of fact, nearly 40 years of smoking pot and shitload of serious concussions are really impacting my memory and cognitive functions. I did give up the pot five years ago in order to have custody of my son, however I am paying a price. I had a MRI scan a few years back. I have a significant amount of contusion bruising, and gliosis.

Been getting tp vibes from BJ all game as I have stated. Reasonably certain you are tp. Nassy is gone. 112 is probably, if forced to make a choice now, the player choose currently.

If we are voting for people that weren't on AL last round then then out of the 3, Qwags and SS have been posting fuck all. That's pretty much par for Qwags however Sharpie is breaking his golden rule. I am pretty sure that Lucky was the first of us onto AL, he certainly called on a few of us to vote for him. This is in regards to Lucky's back and forth with Sharpie over who was first to sus AL Then there is the baller, after being on BJ's case for a few rounds he given up, he did make a good post about scum hunting IMO however that is mafia 101. So for now, poking the bear VOTE SS

When I voted I explained that I didn't want I tied vote again, when I was typing my post, it was tied between 112 and AL I also stated that I was saving my vote until close to the end of the round so we wouldn't have another tie.