Ilunga

" It's too late, when we die To admit that we don't see eye to eye " Just because people don't agree all the time doesn't make them enemies.

When they use the term, lest we forget, in regards to our veterans, I think it's more applicable to the Holacuast. We seem to have forgotten that we, as a world society, promised we would never let something like that ever happen again.

It's not science that will get us there brother, it's a mindset. " Those " have already taken the power. Why do you think we live in a world where 1 percent of the population holds 50 percent of the wealth. And we aren't talking about politicians. They are middle management at best.

You have obviously didn't read the article. Here you go, please read it. http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grab There is a difference between legally acquiring land and what the Isreali settlers, backed by their governments have been doing for decades, stealing it. Definition of stealing The action or offence of taking another persons property without permission or legal right and without the intention to return it. Even Aussies are getting in on the act. In case you missed it the first time https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/religionandethicsreport/property-deal-could-threaten-armenian-presence-in-holy-land/103126920 1600 hundred years the Armenians have been living in Jerusalem. Going under the current system, equal rights for Palestinians would equate to them being able to steal land from the Isrealis. And yes I am for a one state solution. Shit I am for a one world solution. Where we all share the same culture, treating each other the way we wish to be treated. Living in a world where 30 percent of the food that is produced in not thrown away, while hundreds of millions don't have enough to eat. Where 1 percent of the world's population does not hold 50 percent of the wealth. Where that wealth is divided more equally. Where people can raise the families in a secure environment. Where we realise that we are all in this together.

Of course you don't. You called on others to step up, I am interested if you care, and act on that emotion, for people less fortunate than yourself in your society. Especially children. I don't think this is a rude question. Again I am sorry if you took offense.

My dad fought against an evil far worse than Hamas. When I could finally get him to talk about it, he didn't talk about extermination or even killing. He basically told me it was just a dirty job that had to be done.

Angry ? Aggressive ? Please quote posts where I express anger or where I am aggressive. As I have taught my son, anger is an emotion that only hurts those that feel that emotion. I don't continually make posts about people being evil, how they must be exterminated. My posts are about how we are all brothers and sisters under the sun. That we should treat each other the way we want to be treated ourselves. That we should show compassion and empathy to those less fortunate than us. This thread makes me feel sad.

You have made statements that kinda deride the people who are protesting on behalf of the Palestinians. Then you just stated that they should step up and fund the rebuilding of Gaza. I am genuinely interested if you care about the less fortunate people in your own society, especially the children. They have no choice in regards to their circumstances. As the saying goes, charity begins in the home. In this case, our societies. " It's easier to fight for ones principles than to live up to them " Alfred Adler I am sorry if you have taken offense, no offense was intended.

People that advocate for peace, compassion and empathy are voices that need to be heard in any forum, society, group of people you can name. The more of us that do this, the more chance we have of peacefully coexisting together. I hope you are having a nice evening with your family.

Not stealing land ? Didn't you read the article, Isreali human rights organisation. I know you have never been much for human rights when they don't suit your purposes. As for being the same ethnicity, actually Palestinians and Jews are of the same ethnicity, they share the same genetic history. https://www.haaretz.com/science-and-health/2015-10-20/ty-article/palestinians-and-jews-share-genetic-roots/0000017f-dc0e-df9c-a17f-fe1e57730000 And above all, we are all human beings that can be traced back to the place that is now called Botswana. I gave a date for the birth rate figures, only four years old.

2020 figures Isreals birth rate 2.90 Palestinian birth rate 3.57 When Jewish people move into the west bank ? You actually mean when Jewish settlers steal the land from the Palestinians and the police aide and abet them. http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grabv The Isreali goverment is making peace deals with many of its Arab neighbours. Many were speculating that the attack on October the 7th was to disrupt talks with the Saudis. Another criminal regime.

Yes with that attitude there will never be peaceful coexistence. There are always those that look for what seperates us, not what brings us together. For the 80 odd years this bullshit has been going on Hamas has only been in charge since 2006. Talking about helping people, 1.3 million children live in poverty in Canada, tell me, do you do anything help them ? This is what I do in my country, I sponsor 2 Smith family children https://www.thesmithfamily.com.au/ 1 in 6 Aussie kids live in poverty. As I have stated we can't even look after those less fortunate than us properly in our own " wealthy " societies. I am sorry if I sound brusque but it's pretty simple to me. Treat others how you wish to be treated yourself, and treat those less fortunate with compassion and empathy.

Please explain the reasoning behind your belief. As I have stated, there has been a circle of hatred for the better part of 80 years. In that time Palestinians, the people themselves, have had no real voice in their own self determination. Nutjobs have been running the show. This conflict has only increased the potential for people to hold extreme views. Meanwhile on the west bank the Palestinians lose more land every year. This is connected to the Gaza strip. They have no real resources, their farm land is being taken from them by settlers. Gaza will be a pile of rubble by the time the IDF is finished. A few posters here keep claiming, despite evidence to the contrary, that Gaza will be rebuilt. Again I ask you and any of those that claim this, to provide evidence that Gaza will be rebuilt, and by whom. We can't even look after all the less fortunate people in our own societies. Taking all this into consideration, why all of a sudden, will things be different this time around.

@Optimist Prime To continue our discussion from the Hamas thread. Of course you don't need a belief in a god to do good things. However many people are driven by their religious beliefs to do good things and be good people. You talk about fear of the other, you display this with comments like, fear of punishment, in relation to religious people doing good. You are inferring that religious people are driven by fear to do good. Respectfully, this is not true at all. Kindness is motivated by the urge to put others needs before your own. Fear does not motivate this. Do you know that studies have illustrated that being kind to others actually releases the good hormones in your brain and contributes to your well-being https://www.cedars-sinai.org/blog/science-of-kindness.html I have no biases in relation to a person being religious, secular, agnostic or athiest. All I care about is the content of their character, that they have a good heart. Many of the best people I have ever known have been religious. Some have been secular/ agnostic, very few athiests. You talk about killing in the name of, my country has never gone to war in the name of a God. Neither has yours. Tolerance my friend, in all its forms is a good thing.

As I have asked, tell me your realistic path to both people coexisting peacefully. You don't see hope in the fact the peaceful coexistence takes compromise from both parties ? Mutual respect ? Nearly 60 years on this planet has taught me that these things are the only real basis for lasting relationships on both personal and societal levels.

As you know I have always been agnostic. I have volunteered in a few forms most of my adult life. I have also given at least 10 percent of what I earn each year to people less fortunate than me. These values were taught to me by my parents who were very religious people.

Honestly show me a realistic path for change. That can only happen if the Isrealis change some of their policies as well. In any relationship be it personal or societal, it takes compromise to achieve peaceful coexistence. What I really believe is any pretensions of a 2 state solution are now dead. The only real way forward is a one state solution where everyone is equal, with equal representation. PO talks about fear of the other and he is correct. There are people who see each other as fellow human beings on both sides, I have posted example if this.

He was always a good bloke however it was his religious convictions that drove him to do the good work he has done in Thailand. He hadn't done anything like this before he found god. Because I am not getting to see my son this Christmas day I have volunteered to work with the salvos, I have bought a bunch of food and toys, we will make up hampers and take them to people the salvos know, the homeless, victims of domestic violence, not just giving them food and toys for their kids, but showing them they are cared about and worth something in our society.

This conflict has/ will breed new hatreds on both sides that will fuel the the circle of hatred that has been happening for nearly 80 years. Many are questioning what sort of regime, better or worse, will replace Hamas. The Isrealis keep illegally taking land from the Palestinians on the west bank http://www.btselem.org/publications/summaries/200205_land_grab As for Gaza what evidence do you have that contradicts the last 50 odd years of history. The Palestinians co - religionists don't really give a fuck about them. Who from the west is going to pay for the rebuilding of Gaza ? Your country is is $2.1 trillion in debt which is 113 percent of its GDP. My country is nearly $900 billion in debt, with projections to increase to over a trillion. America is in debt to the tune of 30 trillion. Britain is 3.3 trillion in debt. France is 3 trillion, Euros, in debt. Can't find an exact figure for Germany however it is a lot lower due to their fiscal policy of a debt brake, so it's hard to see them financing the rebuilding of the west bank. Their is over 800 million people, roughly 10 percent of the worlds population starving, apart from some aid agencies what governments are helping them. Ukraine will need rebuilding after the Russian are defeated there. Again I will ask for some evidence that these claims, that Gaza will be rebuilt after this conflict over, are factual.

So because some people use their belief in a god to justify bad shit, people who are driven by their religious beliefs to do good should be forced to " get over religion " Just one example is here in my own society 4 out of the top 5 charities are Christian. https://www.eternitynews.com.au/australia/four-of-australias-top-five-charities-are-christian/ The Salvation Army in particular do so much fantastic work here in Aus. And apparently they the most recognised charity in your society, for working with homeless people and families in need. Edit. Was just talking to my oldest friend last night. One of our friends who was a tattooist found god. He saved a heap of money, went to Thailand and amongst other things paid for and helped build a school. He returns every year and pays for improvements, such as building a proper sewerage system. He does this because of his religious beliefs.

The only message I was sending is pointing out you are wrong about south Africa. As for what happens after this conflict is over any rational, intelligent person knows what will happen. Things will go back to how they were before this particular conflict started, no matter who the governing body of the Palestinians is. That's what history teaches us. Regarding the west bank Even an Aussie is stealing land in Jerusalem from people who have lived there for 1600 years. https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/religionandethicsreport/property-deal-could-threaten-armenian-presence-in-holy-land/103126920 While not in Israel, the Armenian people are victims of genocide.

Yeah.....naah https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2023-06-16/south-africa-s-crime-chaos-and-corruption-make-it-look-like-a-failed-state

I watched Race a few nights ago. It's the Jesse Owens story. There were a few interesting facts I didn't know. There were a couple of Jewish Americans on the team. Because of his ties to Nazi Germany Goebbels basically blackmailed the head of the US team into not letting them race. Also when Jesse got to the Games village he asked, where are the coloured persons quarters, he was told there were none, all athletes stayed together, unlike the US. When he got home with his four gold medals, he and his coach went to go into a hotel where they were holding a dinner in his honour, he was told to go in the back door. Also the German athlete he competed against in the long jump, Luz Long went out of his way to support Jesse. As Jesse stated later in life " It must have taken him a lot of courage for him to befriend me " " You can melt down all the medals and cups I have and they wouldn't be a plating on the 24 carat friendship I felt for Luz Long at that moment. Hitler must have gone crazy watching us embrace "

Ah fuck it. I feel for a fellow autistic person UNVOTE VOTE SS

To paraphrase one of my heroes I hope my son grows up in a world where a person isn't judged by the colour of their skin but by the content of their character.