Ilunga

My stance is that is unknown and unknowable. You have not debunked that stance.

If you were persecuted, had your freedom taken away, lived in ghetto like conditions with not much else to do, maybe as a teenager you might do the same, yes ? I believe you are aware of my history, I did some really stupid $hit as a teenager. The police actually shot above our heads a few times. Maybe you can ignore the past events, I guarantee you, people on both sides of this conflict aren't. That's why this circle of hatred continues.

Personally I don't see the difference in people killing children. Killing a child is a crime against humanity. As I have already stated, if my child was killed, I wouldn't be asking questions about collateral damage. I actually find that term offensive,it was invented by lawyers, reduces the killing of civilians to abstraction, and also a way of justifying the death of innocent people.

So you think shooting and killing a child, and that's what a teenager is, is a proper response for that child throwing a stone at you ?

Go back through the thread. I have expressed my appreciation for his input. Told him this thread is better for his presence. His arguments have not persuaded me to change my views. As I have stated, I am an agnostic and will remain so until evidence can be provided to convince me otherwise.

Well my moral compass is somewhat different than yours. Targeting kids full stop is a crime against humanity as far as I am concerned. You can be confident all you like, however you don't know for a fact. Can you state with certainty that the religious fanatic settlers have made no plans to kill children ? If you think there is a difference in your child being killed accidentally on purpose, or on purpose, is less painful to a parent, then I don't know what to say to you. The fact of the matter is that a lot more Palestinian children had been killed up until this conflict that is happening now.

I have asked you to provide me with evidence that a creator does not exist. As you have stated yourself, you have provided arguments not evidence. I am not trying to argue for the existence of a creator being. Until evidence is provided for, or against the existence of a creator being, I will remain an agnostic, which is the only the logical, rational position to hold.

F#ckin right on Brother. The double standard is unbelievable.

PB's claims have already been refuted. Isreali soldiers have targeted children in this conflict. From memory you are not a parent ? F#ck your collateral damage. If my son was killed by a bomb or beheaded by some lunatic I would not be questioning his form of death, I would be feeling the worst pain imaginable.

Didn't you read the articles ? Those kids were targeted. But hey the parents were talking sh!t, right ? Are you a parent ? I am and I know this would be my worst nightmare. You are totally naive if you don't believe Isreali soldiers have not targeted children in the last few decades of this conflict.

I am not a believer.

Really ? https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/8/24/global-outcry-over-israels-targeting-of-palestinian-children https://news.un.org/en/story/2020/12/1080402 Both sides have targeted women and children. And it's not just killing and wounding them, Palestinian women and children are forced to live in ghetto like conditions.

I have not stipulated anything. In fact I used the word creator in the post you have replied to. Please don't bother replying unless you can provide me with evidence. It's obvious our discussion has come to an impasse.

I have also enjoyed reading the works of Philosophers. That is what a the discussion really is, a philosophical one. This article is not about a theological discussion, it's a about religious leaders gathering to agree to work together to help the world become a better place https://www.onecountry.org/story/religious-leaders-gather-their-own-un-summit-also-pledging-work-peace-and-tolerance

These points are not evidence for the non existence, they are arguments against. Give me some solid evidence that a creator being of some sort does not exist and I will gladly become an athiest.

Detroit places a claim on Shayne Gotisbehere.

The Penguins opening night Roster Brady Tkachuk....Tim Stutzle....Troy Terry Travis Konecny....Mikael Granlund....Mats Zuccarello Sam Steel....Scott Laughton....Paul Stastny Lias Andersson....Sam Carrick....Jakub Lauko Brent Burns..... Mikael Sergachev Matt Grzelcyk.....Jake Sanderson Esa Lindell......Calen Addison Cody Ceci Logan Thompson Benjamin Gaudreau

The Penguins call up Benjamin Gaudreau

Lawrence is a great example. His British superiors wanted him to betray the men he fought with when they had finished using them. It has all contributed to what we now call the troubles in the middle east.

Iran is a major backer of Hamas. Isreal claims Iran funds them, giving them a $100 million year, not sure if that includes military equipment, they do train Hamas fighters. Gulf countries, Palestinians in other countries. This article gives you a head start. https://coopwb.in/info/how-is-hamas-financed/ I don't know about Iran having the most to gain, they simply hate the Isrealis the most. I believe, as others do, that this was timed to disrupt the upcoming agreement between Isreal and the Saudis.

The Penguins call up Jakub Lauko

Respectfully and I agree with much of what you state, it's not as simple as that. I posted the comments of Ex Isreali PM's, ex head of Mossad, Isreali human rights organisation B'tselem amongst other prominent Isrealis that all state Isreal is practicing arpartheid. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/05/amnesty-israel-apartheid-israeli-politicians-agree This is ignoring the UN and amnesty international amongst others stating the same thing. The state of Israel has a right to exist. I am fully aware of the history of this conflict from the moment of the Balfour declaration to the current day. There are extremists on both sides that are exacerbating this conflict. There is no way anyone can condone what has happened in the last couple of days. Hopefully we won't have to say this in a few days time when the Isrealis fully retaliate however I fear for the worst.

Brother I think you have taken this too seriously. As I stated about the " pacific solution " When I hear the word solution associated with people I kinda freak out. That's on me, not you.

The history of this conflict is what is on people's minds on both sides of this conflict. Someone's parent, child, other close relative was killed the better part of 100 years ago and the circle of hatred has continued since. It's the Hatfields and the McCoys on a national scale.

This article deals with these questions. https://www.newyorker.com/news/daily-comment/israel-may-decimate-hamas-but-can-it-win-this-war As it states in the article, cut the head of the snake, something worse may replace it. The example they give regarding al Qaeda that morphed into ISIS.