Ilunga

Yes, a lot of this discussion is like the conflict itself. Let's play the blame game instead of trying to find solutions. As for your question, Hamas has been wanting Isreal to release women and " young people " held in Israeli prisons. Up until now Isreal has refused to negotiate a prisoner exchange. That might be changing. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/11/13/israel-hamas-hostage-deal-qatar-talks/ Looks like there might be a deal coming together. I don't know of anyone who has defended Hamas's actions.

who always knew

For me, my society, Australia, has a duty to treat all nations/ other societies with decency and respect. To help those less fortunate than us, just like I do on a personal level. One of the most shameful acts my society has done in my lifetime is the past treatment of asylum seekers, and the past and current treatment of our first nations people. Tell them that it is our duty to protect them. It is our duty as a species to look after the most vulnerable members of our species.

I have never stated Isreal should lay down their arms. I don't know how many times I have to say that they have the right to defend themselves. Again what I am stating that people who can forgive, that advocate for peace are the only hope for peaceful coexistence. I will post this again Note the lyrics " When all the soldiers lay their weapons down " " There will be sorrow no more " Imagine if most of the people in the world believed as I do.

You just don't get forgiveness do you As for your 9/ 11 reference, research how many Palestinians have died in the last 20 years compared to Isrealis. There has been horrific acts on both sides over the last hundred years. It is the need for revenge, for vengeance that fuels many extremists on both sides. What I am stating is the only chance of a lasting peace is that people from both sides overcome their need for vengeance and realise that peaceful coexistence is the only way forward. As for the US waiting ? 2 carriers groups were sent in a matter of weeks. Do you kniw much destructive power one carrier group is capable of ?

I don't believe you are getting the message I am putting out there. It is an endless cycle of vengeance for the better part of a century. And while I am totally behind Isreal defending itself, Hamas will never destroy Isreal. Even if Isreal couldn't take them down, which they can, the US would step in. It takes people like the Grandfather of that 7 year old boy, the ex soldiers in disturbing the peace, to end the cycle of vengeance.

I have posted a bunch of docos about Palestinians and Isrealis coming together to work towards peace. There are kind compassionate people from both sides. In the doco thou shalt not kill, apart from documenting a young radical settler group, it also tells the story of the Dawabshe family. 3 Palestinians including an 18 month old baby that were burned alive in an arson attack by settlers. If you were the parent of those people what would you be teaching the survivor, your Grand son, a 7 year old that suffered severe burns but still lived ? That Grandfather is teaching his grandson forgiveness not hate. https://www.aljazeera.com/program/radicalised-youth/2018/11/13/thou-shalt-not-kill-israels-hilltop-youth " I am teaching Ahmed that you don't have to seek vengeance. That you do not have to kill. Your vengeance must be your success " Do you believe you are capable of such forgiveness ?

Guilt ? I am sure there are some Isreali soldiers who feel some sort of emotion when seeing the dead bodies of women and children. It would be inhumane not to. I don't believe that many Isreali soldiers are inhumane. Before this particular conflict started, this documentary was made, I posted a longer version a while back. " Enemy " soldiers from both sides coming together for peace

Every now and again Palestinians do protest against Hamas. Unfortunately for them, they don't live in societies like ours where we have freedom of speech. https://apnews.com/article/gaza-hamas-demonstration-israel-blockade-palestinians-306b19228f9dd21f1036386ce3709672 A few weeks ago Gazans in Paris " I refuse to be associated with Hamas " https://www.france24.com/en/middle-east/20231019-i-refuse-to-be-associated-with-hamas-gazans-in-paris-lament-ban-on-protests Don't like using Fox however it's video of the Isreali ambassador to the US, Michael Herzog talking Palestinians " don't like us, but they don't like Hamas either " https://news.yahoo.com/palestinians-dont-us-dont-hamas-151437474.html

As I have stated many times on this board, we should look for the things we share in common, that bring us together In regards to Palestinians and Isrealis " We don't eat pigs, you don't eat pigs, it seems it's been that way forever So if you don't eat pigs, and we don't eat pigs Why not, not eat pigs together " Tim Minchin

I disagree. After speaking to veterans including my father, I know that exactly what war really is, the look in their eyes actually speaks louder than words. War is suffering. War is pain. War is the violent death of people that are loved by others. I don't have to live something to know what it is. Of course living through something gives one more of an insight into the suffering and pain of war, however I know what suffering and pain is. I often rationalise that billions of people would trade places with me right now, Inspite of the fact that I am going through the worst time of my life. That doesn't make my pain less or theirs more, it just puts my pain into perspective. The only pain I can envisage that would be worse than what I am going through now is that if my son actually died.

As I have already stated, I am on the side of the families of the victims of the 7th of October attack. I am also on the side of the families of the innocent Palestinians victims, especially the children's. As a parent that's my worst nightmare, my beautiful son dying before I do.

We all knew the question about Palestinian self determination before this particular conflict reignited. Right now I am hearing in the background, news on, this conflict could grow into something much bigger. Projections in regards to Isreals rooting out Hamas is minimum months, could turn into years. Don't get me wrong, Isreal has to do what it has to. I am certainly against a permanent Isreali presence in Gaza for ever. Palestinians have the right to self determination exactly like Isrealis do. And they shouldn't have to give up anymore land.

Again you are wrong https://www.pbs.org/newshour/show/israel-has-no-desire-to-govern-gaza-but-will-create-buffer-zone-netanyahu-adviser-says https://www.npr.org/2023/11/06/1210713218/israel-says-hamas-wont-rule-gaza-so-who-will " We learned the hard way in Lebanon " , said Amidror " we cannot be the king makers. You cannot come from outside and determine who who will be the Palestinian government. They have to make decisions. They have to make the choice. "

Clutching at straws.....sigh Man up and just admit you are wrong. Where did I say Isreal should accept what happened to them ? I have consistently stated that Isreal has a right to defend itself. You made a statement that had nothing to do with the war, I gave you an example of a pacifist that was actually more than punched in the face, he was abused, ostracized, bullied and cursed. Like my dad taught me, bones and bruises heal, if people fuck with your mind that stays with you for life. Not only did he remain a pacifist he actually save the lives of some of those who did those things to him.

Who and what is going to replace Hamas ? Even a little bit of research illustrates that no one outside of the occupied territories wants the job. Even the PA who who partially administers the west bank don't want the job unless Isreal complies to a 2 state solution, which to say the least they have been reluctant to do since Netanyahu took over. Again some research indicates that something just as bad if not worse may be born out of this conflict. Who is going to rebuild Gaza ? I am fully behind Hamas being neutralized by whatever means it takes however whose duty is it to rebuild ? We know the Palestinians don't have the resources to do this.

You really should do some research before posting, he was a medic, full stop. That copped a lot of abuse from his fellow soldiers for his pacifism. Soldiers, many of whom he went on to save their lives. The Japanese killed far more people than Hamas. As I have stated they committed a form of genocide and many other war crimes and crimes against humanity Are you stating that we, Australians as well, should not have fought against the Japanese ? WW 2 is one of the few wars that had/ has any moral justification.

Yes he was helping " complicit " in fighting against an evil group, that actually did commit a form of genocide, the rape of Nanking, amongst other war crimes and crimes against humanity the Japanese committed before and during WW2. He was a pacifist that wanted to save lives not take them. You stated he was complicit in killing babies, prove it. I can find no evidence of any US soldiers killing babies in WW2, let alone his unit. So even though US soldiers did not kill babies like you have claimed,and Desmond was complicit in killing these fictional babies of yours, Isreali soldiers are not complicit in killing women and children, who are being killed, when applying the logic you have used in your previous posts.

The Penguins are terminating the contract of Paul Stastny as he has retired. https://www.espn.com.au/nhl/story/_/id/38790366/paul-stastny-37-retires-nhl-17-seasons The Penguins call up Kaiden Guhle to our senior team.

I dunno brother. I am for equal pay no matter what the " strengths and weaknesses" may or may not be. Was watching this, again, a few nights ago. Not only the struggle for equal pay but also the sexism and homophobia some of these girls faced, and fought, so the girls of today not only have equal pay but more importantly the respect they deserve.

Not only did his pacifism not result in people dying, he saved 75 lives in one battle alone. Men, many of whom used to abuse, bully, ostracize and curse him.

Are you really serious ? You are comparing some one who wanted to save lives to people who are complicit in killing babies ? His unit was fighting fanatics that in some ways were similar to Hamas. I am unaware of any instances where US troops killed babies in WW2. So are you willing to apply that same logic to the Israeli armed forces who are killing women and children in their efforts to root out Hamas from the Gaza strip ? Should they have avoided military service ?

You weren't taking about Hamas. You stated " EVERYONE is idealist/ pacifist until they get punched in the face. After the rest of his battalion had retreated, he stayed up on hacksaw ridge. He saved men who used to mock and ridicule him for being a pacifist. He was ostracized, bullied, abused and cursed by some of the men he went on to save. So yeah, not only do some people stay pacifists, they go on to help the people that abused them.