Ilunga

Provide me with evidence that a some form of being that created the elements that make up the universe and ourselves does not exist and I will become an atheist. I am sitting on the same fence in regards to Multiverses, in regards to what existed/ came before the big bang, on a whole lot of things I lack the knowledge to make a judgement call on. I don't have enough evidence to come to a conclusion either way. Like Einstein " My position concerning god is that of an agnostic " Like Degrassi Tyson " If I find a word that came closest, it would be agnostic " Like Darwin " The mystery of the beginning of all things is insoluble by us, and I for one must be content to remain an agnostic " Like Sagan " An athiest is someone who is certain god does not exist, someone who has compelling evidence against the existence of God. I know of no such compelling evidence. Because god can be relegated to remote times and places and to uptime causes, we would have to know a great deal more about the universe than we do now to be sure that no such god exists. To be certain of the existence of God and you be certain of the non existence of God seem to me to be the confident in extremes in a subject so riddled with doubt and uncertainty as to inspire very little confidence indeed " If these great minds, and many more I could post up, think this way, that's good enough for me to join them. I wasn't aware that length of time being a member of CDC in any of its forms was relevant to our discussion. More importantly I would like you to state your opinion about Isreal. Do you agree with the overwhelming evidence that it is a state that practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people ? Hope you are having a great weekend.

Either you assert there is a god, you assert there is not a god, or like myself one is agnostic. I see you have " cheered " PO's post about the conflict in Isreal. Do you really believe that is driven by a belief in a god or the conditions the Palestinian people are forced to live under by the Isrealis ? The international community states Isreal is an arpartheid state, human rights organisations including an Israeli one ,state this, a quarter of Isrealis agree with this including ex PM's and ex mossad chief. Do you agree or deny that Isreal practices arpartheid on the Palestinian people ? How would you feel if you were a Palestinian living in the conditions they are forced to endure ? Even though your government refuses to condemn Isreal most Canadians agree that Isreal is an apartheid state. https://www.readthemaple.com/similar-to-apartheid-most-popular-description-of-israel-among-canadians-poll-shows/ How would you feel if you were a Palestinian ? If there is one people who are religiously driven by wanting to possess the state of Palestine/ Isreal, it is the Isrealis who believe that it was promised to them by a god.

Are you talking about this ? https://www.9news.com.au/world/israel-news-hamas-launches-thousands-of-rockets-into-israel/cc538325-be14-494c-b153-e8488fa715c1 If so I would not put it down to any god. The Palestinians are victims of arpartheid. The international community, United Nations states this https://news.un.org/en/story/2022/03/1114702 Human rights organisations both within Isreal and organisations such as amnesty international state this http://www.btselem.org/publications/fulltext/202101_this_is_apartheid https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/campaigns/2022/02/israels-system-of-apartheid/ Prominent Isreali politician's and officials state this https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/05/amnesty-israel-apartheid-israeli-politicians-agree The Isrealis have stolen the Palestinians freedom and they are slowly stealing their land. How can anyone defend an arpartheid regime.

So you assert there is no God ?

Prayer is a form of power of the mind. If you read that article you would have noted the results. I have a friend who has just been informed he has cancer, terminal diagnosis. He is a strong willed guy. We talk about the power of the mind and strength of will in relation to any hope he has of surviving. I am also aware of the power of placebos, which again display the power of the mind.

You are twisting words. I will make it simple for you. Do you assert there is no God ? Yes or no.

You are the one making the assertion that a god does not exist. The burden of proof is on the individual making the assertion. As you know, I make no assertion either way. As for the Pink Elephants, are you claiming they really do exist ? Again the burden of proof lies with you to prove your assertion.

It's about having an open mind. We currently don't have evidence of Multiverses, does that mean we should give up exploring the possibility they exist ? What was there before the big bang ? The big bounce ? https://www.popularmechanics.com/space/deep-space/a34941841/big-bounce-universe-theory/ And what was there before that ? Should we just give up exploring possibilities just because we don't currently have evidence for them ?

Yes I have heard this " idea " proposed before. I welcome any and all ideas/ thoughts on this subject.

Dress it up however you want, you are claiming that a god does not exist. Provide some facts to back up your claim. I will gladly accept these facts and stop being an agnostic and become an athiest. I am an agnostic because I believe that the nature and existence of gods is unknown and inherently unknowable due to the subjective nature of experience. Kinda dictionary meaning of the term agnostic.

My cup of tea is continually trying to be better informed on the topics I am interested in. Imagine if our species had closed minds, science would not exist. Again I will quote Artur. C. Clarke " The only way to discover the limits of the possible, is to go beyond them into the impossible " Do you agree with that ? As an athlete to progress/ get more proficient, I had to continually push beyond the boundaries of my abilities.

What have the tooth fairy and Santa have to do with a potential creator being ? Why do athiests continually bring them up when pushed to prove their assertion that a god does not exist ? I will listen to any proof you can offer that a being did not create the elements that make up the universe I will listen to any ideas you have about what actually created the elements, where they came from. What was there before this universe came into being ? Do you have any answers/ evidence to provide for these questions ?

Which does not prove anything. You brought up some rubbish about flying pink elephants trying to mock me, rather than providing a rational argument to counter what I stated. This is what happens with believers and non believers alike, sooner or later the conversation ends in disdain and aggravation.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact. For the third time, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence, or to put it another way, " Just because an investigation does not yield evidence for a certain claim, it does not mean that claim is actually false " Anything you cannot prove, may or may not exist. As for bringing in figures like Santa, the tooth fairy and pink elephants, this displays an inability to actually provide a factual argument as to why I, or others should not keep an open mind on this subject.

Really brother. Do you have an argument/ statement of fact that counters Carl's statement ?

The Redwings call up Eric Comrie.

Good afternoon/ evening my friend. The bible as we both know is a collection of allegories. The themes of these allegories are common in most religious texts. Just because a majority of people believe something, that does not make what they believe factual. For something to be factual evidence must be provided. Conversely for something to be false/ untrue, evidence must be provided. As Carl Sagan noted, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. As for who the onus is on, the person who makes any claim, be that a being does exist, or does not exist.

One persons " deal with god " https://www.curetoday.com/view/-i-struck-a-deal-with-god-a-cancer-survivor-s-story-on-finding-faith Results of study how people with faith cope with cancer. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/science/science-news/11793286/Religious-people-cope-better-with-cancer...unless-they-think-God-is-punishing-them.html

There is no however about it. The statement speaks for itself. I don't claim to believe in a creator. I, like any good scientist, am keeping an open mind until I am presented with evidence that either proves or disproves there is some form of being that created the elements that make up the universe.

Isreal has been labelled an arpartheid state/ regime by human rights organisations both within Isreal and outside of it. https://www.btselem.org/topic/apartheid https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/02/israels-apartheid-against-palestinians-a-cruel-system-of-domination-and-a-crime-against-humanity/ Prominent Isreali politician's and officials have also stated this https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/06/israel-imposing-apartheid-on-palestinians-says-former-mossad-chief https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/feb/05/amnesty-israel-apartheid-israeli-politicians-agree Isreal has stolen Palestinians freedom and they are slowly stealing their land from them, illegal settlements. Anyone with an ounce of humanity knows what is happening. How can we, as a world society, allow arpartheid to exist in this day and age.

The Redwings place Brian Elliot on Waivers with the intention of placing him in our minor league affiliate.

Religious people we all love. How can you not love the Dycks

" Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence " Carl Sagan " If there is a lack of evidence of a presence of a thing, does not always conclude to the absence of that thing totally.

I know you, like I, have some background in the study of comparative religions. You state that if born in a different place people would believe in the " religion" of the place they were born. When you cut to the core of them all they are really all the same. The tree of life has been represented in Ancient Egypt, Christianity, Buddhist, African, Turkish and Celtic cultures. " Horus similar to Mithra Attis analogous to Krishna Jesus different name same story All based on an ancient Egyptian Allegory " Mike Burkett And yes I knew this before I heard the song blasphemy. They contain the same major themes, virgin Birth, Resurrection, " good/ bad " place afterlife. These allegories are universal. What does that tell you about the innate need the majority of humans have to believe in a creator being/ after life. Is it the allegories fault that humans twist their meanings to suit their own ends ? If those allegories did not exist, humans would create other reasons to justify their actions. That is what humans do. It's called human nature. Humans will always do things that the majority define as bad, just as they will always do what the majority define as good. As for indoctrination, many people question their faith during their lives. Some lose it, some gain it.