Rip The Mesh

If you’re someone who likes to draw straight lines in your hockey gossip, try this one on for size:

Brock Boeser and Jake Guentzel have the same agent.

A random observer might wonder if there’s reason to think that Boeser is doing what he can to urge Guentzel to consider joining the Vancouver Canucks, now that Guentzel appears set to hit unrestricted free agency.

You can bet that he’s suggested to his agent more than once that Guentzel would be a great fit with the Canucks, obviously on the ice, but off the ice too. Boeser, after all, has come to love his adopted hometown. You know he’ll sing Vancouver’s praises to anyone who will listen — but especially to high-profile potential teammates.

So that’s one direct line.

The other line you can draw, of course, is to the Canucks’ management team, who know Guentzel so well from their days with the Pittsburgh Penguins.

Drafted by Pittsburgh in 2013, he signed on with Pittsburgh late in the 2015-16 season after three seasons with the University of Nebraska-Omaha. A high-scoring player in junior, he evolved into a top-end two-way player, scoring a point per game and taking on all the toughest matchups.

He played first with the Penguins’ farm team in Wilkes-Barre, quickly adjusting to pro hockey and by midway through the 2016-17 season was ready for the NHL. He made an immediate affect the Penguins, scoring at a point-per-game pace in the second half of the season, then scoring 13 goals in 25 playoff games.

His career has only carried on from there. He was a key player for the Penguins right until this spring, when he was the top trade target at the trade deadline. The Carolina Hurricanes ended up snagging him and he was a strong performer for Carolina down the stretch and in the playoffs.

Now it seems likely he’ll hit free agency next month.

The funny thing here is that in a different universe, Guentzel might have already been a Vancouver Canuck.

At the 2016 trade deadline, a deadline where then-GM Jim Benning and his key AGM John Weisbrod ended up doing nothing, there was plenty of chatter around Canucks defenceman Dan Hamhuis, who was still one of the best blueliners in the game and a pending unrestricted free agent.

The veteran defenceman was one of two notable trade chips that Benning held; Radim Vrbata was the other. But rather than make a move that he felt wasn’t good enough, Benning chose to make no move at all.

Before the deadline there were trade talks with both the Dallas Stars and the Pittsburgh Penguins. The Penguins, you may recall, were then helmed by now-Canucks

president Jim Rutherford, who was always looking to add blue-line depth.

A prospect was offered by the Penguins. The Stars offered a third-round pick.

In the end, neither was what Benning and Weisbrod thought the player was worth and for some reason felt that to accept a lesser offer would somehow hurt future negotiations. (Rutherford would end up moving a third-round pick to Edmonton for defenceman Justin Schultz.)

In pondering a trade with the Penguins, obviously a few names came up. One prospect who came up in the Canucks’ internal discussions was a young forward with the University of Nebraska-Omaha: Jake Guentzel. Now at the time, he wasn’t a player who anyone thought would be a 40-goal scorer, or even a key player a year later in a Stanley Cup chase, but scouts saw a player who did everything well. He’s Swiss Army-type forward now, and even then he was that player, though obviously at a lower level. If they needed a goal, often it was Guentzel who would make it happen. He killed penalties. He lined up against the opposition’s best players. Sometimes he would take the big faceoffs, even though he was nominally a winger

Simply put, he was The Man for Omaha.

Now whether he was the player put on the table by the Penguins, or even whether Benning and Weisbrod heeded the input of their scouts on Guentzel isn’t known. The duo generally kept their own counsel, usually meeting one on one, the door closed to Benning’s office.

Even team president Trevor Linden would have to poke his head in to inquire on what was going on.

But there’s little doubt his name was in consideration.

Anyway, fast forward to today: there’s little doubt that Guentzel is on the Canucks’ radar.

They made inquiries after Guentzel when the veteran winger was on the trade block going into the trade deadline this season. There’s chatter now that the Canucks might even look to flip a mid-round draft pick in the coming weeks to get direct negotiating rights to the player, before of the market opening on July 1.

And you know when the market opens on July 1, if Guentzel hasn’t been flipped anywhere, you know the Canucks will come calling.

And maybe then, finally, Guentzel will be a Canuck.

Roberto Luongo is so close, he can taste it. The legendary former Vancouver Canucks goaltender and Hockey Hall of Famer never won a Stanley Cup as a player.

 Famously, he came up one win short in 2011.

But now, for the first time since 2011, he can finally hoist Lord Stanley’s mug. Not as a player, of course. Luongo is part of the Florida Panthers’ front office, holding the title of “Special advisor to general manager” since he retired as a player in 2019.

TORONTO — Viewed from afar, the decision seems pretty simple. You have a pure designated hitter — someone who's rarely trusted to run and never trusted to field. Midway through June he has a .578 OPS with just one home run. 

Cutting Daniel Vogelbach, as the Toronto Blue Jays did Friday, seems obvious. Yet internally, it wasn’t quite so simple since Vogelbach can still barrel up a fastball and he was a well-regarded teammate, talking hitting constantly with the likes of Bo Bichette.

“Kind of a crowd favourite in here,” manager John Schneider said from within the Blue Jays clubhouse Friday afternoon. “Professional, understood his skillset and just was really well-liked.”

He wasn’t producing, though, and the Blue Jays wanted more flexibility with their bench, so Vogelbach became the second somewhat prominent position player to be removed from the roster in the last week, joining Cavan Biggio, who was traded to the Dodgers Wednesday.

These latest moves are interesting in and of themselves, of course. But they also offer insight into how patient team decision-makers are willing to be with struggling players — an important question in a season where even the best-case scenario likely involves a close finish where a single win or loss makes all the difference.

And unfortunately for the Blue Jays, they’ll face versions of this dilemma again, as Biggio and Vogelbach weren’t the only ones performing well below career norms. As long as George Springer, Justin Turner and Kevin Kiermaier continue struggling at the plate, the question persists: stay the course expecting better results, or respond to what’s happening on the field with further changes?

It’s taken a long time to get here — arguably too long — but we’re now seeing hints that the Blue Jays are willing to dial back playing time on some established names at least a little. How they navigate that question from here will go a long way toward determining their fate.

What’s clearest of all is this: Spencer Horwitz and Addison Barger, the two left-handed hitting rookies called up to replace Biggio and Vogelbach, are joining a team in desperate need of offence. There’s opportunity, too, with Horwitz appearing in each of the last six games and Barger expected to play against lots of right-handed pitching, too.

TORONTO — Viewed from afar, the decision seems pretty simple. You have a pure designated hitter — someone who's rarely trusted to run and never trusted to field. Midway through June he has a .578 OPS with just one home run. 

Cutting Daniel Vogelbach, as the Toronto Blue Jays did Friday, seems obvious. Yet internally, it wasn’t quite so simple since Vogelbach can still barrel up a fastball and he was a well-regarded teammate, talking hitting constantly with the likes of Bo Bichette.

“Kind of a crowd favourite in here,” manager John Schneider said from within the Blue Jays clubhouse Friday afternoon. “Professional, understood his skillset and just was really well-liked.”

He wasn’t producing, though, and the Blue Jays wanted more flexibility with their bench, so Vogelbach became the second somewhat prominent position player to be removed from the roster in the last week, joining Cavan Biggio, who was traded to the Dodgers Wednesday.

At the Letters
Ben Nicholson-Smith is Sportsnet’s baseball editor. Arden Zwelling is a senior writer. Together, they bring you the most in-depth Blue Jays podcast in the league, covering off all the latest news with opinion and analysis, as well as interviews with other insiders and team members.
Listen and Subscribe for free Follow Ben on Twitter Follow Arden on Twitter
These latest moves are interesting in and of themselves, of course. But they also offer insight into how patient team decision-makers are willing to be with struggling players — an important question in a season where even the best-case scenario likely involves a close finish where a single win or loss makes all the difference.

And unfortunately for the Blue Jays, they’ll face versions of this dilemma again, as Biggio and Vogelbach weren’t the only ones performing well below career norms. As long as George Springer, Justin Turner and Kevin Kiermaier continue struggling at the plate, the question persists: stay the course expecting better results, or respond to what’s happening on the field with further changes?

It’s taken a long time to get here — arguably too long — but we’re now seeing hints that the Blue Jays are willing to dial back playing time on some established names at least a little. How they navigate that question from here will go a long way toward determining their fate.

What’s clearest of all is this: Spencer Horwitz and Addison Barger, the two left-handed hitting rookies called up to replace Biggio and Vogelbach, are joining a team in desperate need of offence. There’s opportunity, too, with Horwitz appearing in each of the last six games and Barger expected to play against lots of right-handed pitching, too.   How can Barger bounce back after tough first stint with Blue Jays?

 

“You’re not looking for one guy or two guys to totally change the trajectory of your season,” Schneider said. “If that happens, great, but we need everyone to be who they hopefully are and have everybody do their part.”

Here’s where it gets interesting for the Blue Jays. On days both Horwitz and Barger are in there against righties, the lineup will also include Vladimir Guerrero Jr., Bo Bichette, Daulton Varsho and a catcher. That means three of Springer, Turner, Kiermaier, Davis Schneider and Isiah Kiner-Falefa would start the day on the bench.

“If it means an extra day off for Schneid, for Izzy, for K.K., George, whoever it may be, you do that, as long as everyone else is performing,” Schneider said. “But it's a fine line. You're not trying to force guys in.”

Granted, that’s just one scenario and there’s no guarantee that Horwitz and Barger hit enough to justify regular playing time. It’s a long season with many adjustments made along the way. And ideally, Springer, Turner and Kiermaier would approach their career norms, pushing Horwitz and Barger back down the depth chart.

But already, the Blue Jays have cut into Kiermaier’s playing time, using him late in games as a defensive replacement to take advantage of his still-elite defence, while asking him to bat less frequently. In June, he appeared in ten games while batting a total of 17 times — more of a fourth outfielder role.

The Blue Jays likely wouldn’t do anything quite as drastic with Turner or Springer, who are still considered important parts of the offence. To be fair, Turner has rebounded from an awful May with better results in June. Yet the 39-year-old, who struck out twice Friday and grounded out twice more, isn’t guaranteed full-time DH at-bats either.

Asked before the game about pinch-hitting for the two-time all-star late in games, Schneider acknowledged it’s a possibility. 

Simply put, the Blue Jays are becoming more of a line-change team that swaps players in and out during games depending on matchups and game state the way the Twins and Rays do. It’s a viable strategy, especially with a more flexible roster in place, but no team wants to adopt it for the reason the Blue Jays are: because their established hitters aren’t producing.

Most concerning of all is the underperformance by Springer, who entered play Friday ranked sixth-last among all MLB hitters with a 73 wRC+. There are long-term questions here, as this is only year four of a six-year, $150 million deal that’s now trending badly. But even if the focus is on 2024, Springer’s numbers are troubling.

Not only are his traditional numbers poor — he's batting .197 with five homers and 14 RBI — his barrel rate, launch angle and max exit velocity are all career lows. This is not the profile of a hitter who seems poised for an offensive breakout. 

For now, Springer will continue playing while the Blue Jays hold onto hope that better results are ahead for the 34-year-old. His off days may gradually become a little more frequent, but he’ll keep starting most days. As the Blue Jays showed earlier in the year when they stuck with him too long as their leadoff hitter, Springer will get plenty of patience.

"There's definitely some bad luck involved with George's season,” Schneider said after Friday’s game. “He's missing his pitches. It's not for lack of effort, intent or prep. No one puts more pressure on themselves than George and a few other guys in our lineup … George is a huge part of what we're doing here."

And granted, at this point, it’s not as though the Blue Jays have nine other hitters producing. That means some struggling bats will be in there, hoping to turn it around. The challenge from here will be coaxing what they can out of their veterans and determining how much patience they deserve if more intriguing options do start to emerge.

To be honest, I would not even have made that 7  x  7 Offer to lindholm now that I think about it.  Yah don't piss away the future because you think

it's our window now. If I recall, we were on our way to a great year before we brought him out of cowtown. 

If he rejected it, as per reports, what the hell does he think he's worth. 

Big boy for a hockey player. Ah, must be gust the lighting...

If I were a bettin man; I'd say done in 10 days or less.

LOL, What's he supposed to say?