Jeremy Hronek

Yes to Bear, no to Edler.  

Edler, god bless him, is washed up now.  

I'd be in favour of signing Ethan Bear as opposed to trading young assets (i.e. Hoglander+) for someone like Tanev.  

Let Bear be our solution to the "hedge against potential injuries to the defense," problem.  

Initially, I was in favour of trading for a top pairing RD that could play alongside Hughes (while allowing Hronek to "captain" a 2nd pairing), but the Canucks seem content to play Hughes-Hronek together........and so I'm not sure if we really need a "#2A/#3" calibre defenseman (especially at what it would cost).    

Sign Bear for free.  

Let Edler fade off into the sunset.

2 hours ago, AK-19 said:

Yeah except we got boned by OEL's buyout caphit. It's really now or never. Trade the farm while were finally firing on all cylinders this season to do as much damage as possible.

With OEL's buyout cap hit (the peak of which is still to come), would that lead a greater argument in support of prospects 'stepping up' to the NHL on ELC's or less?  I haven't done the math yet but my gut says the former.  

For me personally, I'm not sure if I want a repeat of the last 15 years (2008-2023). Sure, if we 'go all in' and sacrifice our farm in an effort to do so, we'll very likely have a strong 5 year window (so, following the 2008-2013 example, maybe that's two second round appearances, a cup appearance, two presidents trophies, and a 6-7th overall finish as we begin our descend).  After that?  10 years of hell (give or take 1-2 outlier seasons).   I'm not really sure if I want to risk going through that.

Another thing to consider - IF we decide to go "all in," Pettersson will likely need to sign a shorter term deal in order to keep his cap hit slightly lower........meaning that he can leave as a UFA right around the time we would begin our descend.  

Don't get me wrong - I completely understand the 'other side of the coin so to speak.'

-Boeser and Kuzmenko are UFA's in two years

-Demko is a UFA in 3 years

-"prime" JT Miller probably has about 3 years left.

-Hughes is a UFA in 4 years

I get all of that.  But I still think the smarter play is to take the long term approach since Gillis' "blowing up the farm" approach (combined with awful drafting) is the main-reason why this team fell off a cliff in 2013-2014.  I know @IBatch mentioned earlier that we could always sell players for picks/prospects once our window starts to close (i.e. rebuild our farm), but we all saw what happened in 2012/2013.  Gillis tried to sell Aqua on this idea and Aqua basically told Gillis to fuck off. So,.....maybe Aqua would be wiser this time around?   Maybe......maybe not.   

So, taking all of that into consideration, my rough plan would be as follows:

1) Sign Ethan Bear.  Instead of trading for Tanev, Andersson, etc, and giving up significant assets to do so, sign Ethan Bear for free.  Bear becomes our answer to the "hedge against injuries to the defense" problem.

2) This Summer:  Walk from Beauvillier and Myers.  

3) Sign both Pettersson and Hronek to long term 8 year deals.  None of these "rinky dinky" Michael Jackson at Neverland Ranch type deals where you sign someone to a 3-4 year deal.  Give both Pettersson and Hronek 8 year deals (or whatever is the max term).   Build a foundation.  If there is some money left over (i.e. increase in cap), then maybe you can sign Chris Tanev *for free* to a 1-2 year deal (i.e. having Tanev here before Willander is ready to take his place). 

4) Move one of Boeser or Kuzmenko if/when the team feels that Lekkerimaki is ready to step into the line-up.    Unlike Garland, both Boeser and Kuzmenko should have some tradable value (if Boeser continues his current level of play).   

5) Silovs has looked good on the farm and although nothing is guaranteed, he does look like a strong bet in terms of being able to 'take the reins' from Demko one day.  

6) Quinn Hughes.  As an American born player, combined with the fact that his brothers and family are in the States (brothers playing for the same team), there is a reasonably strong chance that Hughes leaves us when he becomes a UFA.  That's life.  It happens.  Still - if/when that time comes, the Canucks should be able to attract good UFA's (or one good UFA) to replace Quinn Hughes if they are able to establish a consistent winning culture here with good core pieces to surround themselves with (i.e. Pettersson, Hronek, Willander, etc.).    And who knows - the flip side of this is that we are successful in signing Hughes LONG TERM just as we did with JT Miller.  

Even with the above plan, the Canucks should have a couple of very solid chances of making a cup run..........without blowing up the farm.  

Now..........having said ALL that, I do believe that the Canucks are going to be very aggressive this season and next in terms of going for the cup.  It fits Aqua's "modus operandi," and I think both Rutherford and Alvin will want to create legacies for themselves (or in JR's case, further his legacy).

44 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

To Vancouver:

Nikita Zadorov (50% retention)

Chris Tanev     (50% retention)

Adam Ruzicka

 

To Calgary:

Anthony Beauvillier

Nils Hoglander

Noah Juulsen

2024 1st round pick

 

Hughes        Hronek

Zadorov       Tanev

Cole             Myers

Soucy          Friedman

 

That is a Stanley Cup winning defence.  We are 8 deep and can sustain injuries too.  We now have completed our defence and we can go for the cup...

Not a fan of this proposal.

For one thing, we'd be able to sign Chris Tanev for absolutely free in this off-season (Myers + Beauvillier will come off the books). 

Secondly, I realize that injuries occur throughout the season but you'd basically be paying Soucy three million dollars to be a 7th defenseman?   

Soucy has been decent for us and doesn't deserve to be treated like that.  That's the type of move that could discourage free agents from wanting to sign here (i.e. sign someone long term and then put them in the press box for no good reason).  

Juulsen has about as much value as my poo with corn in it and so I don't see why Calgary takes him (other than the fact that he has low cost).   

I don't like the idea of trading assets to go for it this year.  With Myers and Beau off the books next year + cap going up, the Canucks might have an even better opportunity to go for it next season.   

I think this season is akin to our 2008-2009 season (personally, I think our record is a bit inflated at this point).  However, I can see next year and beyond being this core's equivalent to its 2010-2012 elite window.  Be patient would be my mantra for this year.  Let the Canucks make the playoffs and win a round.  Then, take the next step next year.  Be consistent and progressive in building.  

When Mike Gillis took over as the GM in (2008?) or whenever it was, ownership told Gillis to be aggressive in terms of building a winner.  And for the short term, the plan was brilliant.  Our 2008-2013 era was probably the greatest Canucks window of all-time, with 2010-2012 being the peak. Unfortunately, we saw what happened to this team from 2013-2023.  My point being this - do you want to build *another* team that is good for 4-5 years followed by another ten years of struggle? (give or take 1-2 outlier seasons), or, do you want to build a consistently good team for the long term? (i.e. Pittsburgh, Boston, Carolina, etc.).  

Let's keep Hoglander, 2024 1st, and the great Noah Juulsen (unless we are offered a 7th round pick and dog shit in exchange of course ;-)).

Signing Ethan Bear *for free* should give us the necessary defensive depth (a good point you raised in your post btw).  

9 minutes ago, Tusk said:

yeah this is bullshit that the game is blacked out in all east when we are not the "market"

I guess they dont want to see Calgary refs CHEAT

 

It's annoying because I'm out here living in China and very much look forward to seeing games during my lunch break.

Sportsnet has been great for me so far but I was unable to see the Canucks-Islanders game (home game), and now this.  

Sportsnet 360 isn't exactly a cheap service.  I expect value for my money.  

3 minutes ago, Snoop Hogg said:

 

As much as I want to rip Calgary for their sporting impotencies so to speak, I also want to be reserved in my approach.

Sure, the Canucks look like they might be elite again but we also know what we've been through from 2014-2023.   

Success is wonderful but it's fleeting and cyclical.  

Enjoy the success while it's there but I'm never pissing off the hockey gods ever again.

Lesson learned from 2008-2013.

I'm just grateful that we've got a good team again.....had started to lose hope.

"Bunch of calf roping donkeys," @-dlc-

In their defense, most of them do use condoms with said calfs and so that's a bit of a plus I guess.

Anyone have an online stream for the game?  

My sports net 360 APP says, "game not available in your region."  

3 hours ago, King Heffy said:

It was still the right move considering the turtle's character issues.  You don't want a gutless piece of trash like him anywhere near your room if you're a respectable team.  He's a talented player but a locker room cancer who consistently disgraces the sport with his refusal to play like a man.

Is Tkachuk really a locker room cancer?   I haven't heard any reports out of Florida and even the rumoured ongoings in Calgary seemed farfetched/fabricated.  

Tkachuk works his butt off, wins puck battles, is tremendous defensively, and produces goals.  The dude is a terrific hockey player.  Yes he can be dirty at times, and sometimes does avoid fights/turtles, but he probably has answered the bell more times than not.  

He's a great player.

Nothing much really needs to be said about this game.

The good teams find a way to win and the bad teams find a way to lose.

In contrast to last year, I'm glad that the coin has been flipped.

I'm also proud of the way the fans treated Bo.   

He deserved to receive a warm reception and the fans delivered.  

2 hours ago, ngoway said:

Just saw this posted on TSN 

 

https://www.tsn.ca/nhl/columbus-blue-jackets-place-emil-bemstrom-on-waivers-1.2036158

Interesting.....

This guy was a highly touted prospect a few years ago.  

9 hours ago, Provost said:

Not at all, go look at the game by game breakdown of that season.  At the beginning and end of that season he played just as poorly as he had the rest of his career before and the rest of his career afterwards.  There is no such thing as a drastic decline with Virtanen because there was never a hill he climbed to fall off of.  He didn't produce for almost his entire career, had a few good weeks one season with a 1st line production rate, then went back to what he was before.  His career arc looks like an EGC... flatline, heartbeat, flatline... no gradual sustained improvement and then drastic decline.

Oct 2019 - 5pts in 12 games. 
Nov 2019 - 7pts in 15 games.  
Dec 2019 - 11pts in 13 games (most of that coming near the end of that month when his blip of good play started)
Jan 2020 - 8pts in 11 games
Feb 2020 - 4pts in 13 games
Mar 2020 - 1pt in 5 games
Playoffs - 3pts in 16 games

Aside from a 6-7 week stretch, Virtanen was producing at a 3rd or 4th line rate just like he has his entire career.  36 points over a season while getting mostly offensive zone assignments against poor quality opponents.

Believe what the player showed you he was over 6 years in the NHL, not what he was for 6 weeks.

This is a pretty good post but even those November and February totals that you listed aren't that bad for a bottom 6 player.  

What's especially alarming to me is his 2020/2021 season where he performed even worse than his Rookie year (after having had his best season - luck or not).  

Take a look at this:  

So even in his "awful" performances from 2017-2020, Jake was still able to score 10, 15, and 18 goals per season, with overall point totals of 20, 25, and 36.  

Now, is that the stuff of legends?  No, but it's decent production for a 3rd line player (2018/2019 + 2019/2020).   

So again I ask, what the hell happened in 2020-2021?   Did Jake Virtanen magically become a 38 year old man?  Was he doing drugs?    

Or, is it possible that the Covid lockdown/restricted lifestyle took a toll on his mental health and he never found his footing after that?  

Virtanen is still only 27 years of age.  Even if he can't duplicate that 6-7 week stretch in 2019-2020, would it be inconceivable to believe that he could go back to his 2018-2019 level?  (i.e. 15 goals).  He's dumb as a rock but the kid has speed and size when he's in shape.  

And who knows?  Maybe before the covid lockdowns/restricted lifestyle, maybe he was showing signs of taking the next step even if he struggled a bit in February and March of 2020.  

33 minutes ago, -AJ- said:

Not only did he score 18 goals and 36 points, he did it in just 70 games, indicating he could score 20 goals.

 

That said, he was particularly inconsistent that year and scored in bunches, which was a little worrying. His usage that year was slightly favourable with about 55% OZS, but not off the charts in that zone. If I wasn't at work, I'd do a deeper dive. Sounds like a fun research project.

Please do.  I'd be interested to see this myself.  

54 minutes ago, Provost said:

This is silly… the guy was crap his entire career except for a short stretch of play for about a third of a season where everything aligned and he put up some points.

 

 

 

 

Do you think you are exaggerating a little here?  18 goals + 18 assists with little to no PP time + mainly 3rd line minutes hardly seems indicative of someone that "good for a short stretch of play lasting about a third of the season" (although his drastic decline would align with your narrative).   Meh.  Like Benning, I genuinely thought Virtanen had turned a corner.  I was wrong. 

2 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

I’ve dove into this several times on the old forums to explain to the clueless people who just love to shit all over Virtanen.

 

Virtanen’s production rarely saw any increase in ice time. Never really given PP1 time, no favourable offensive zone starts and less ice time in the end.

 

2015-16

All situations 55.2%oZS

7G 6A 11:34TOI

 

2017-18

All situations 45.2%oZS

10G 10A 11:59TOI

 

2018-19

All situations 49.1%oZS 

15G 10A 14:49TOI

 

2019-20

All situations 55.1%oZS

18G 18A 13:05TOI

 

2020-21

All situations 39.6%oZS

5G 0A 39.6%oZS

 

 

As you can see, his production increased, his icetime began to increase and then for whatever reason they beganf reducing his TOI, plus his zone starts drop 16% from the ozone and that is then allocated to the dzone. IMHO he was mishandled, however perhaps they saw better defensive zone numbers which is what led to more dzone time. Which if you look… he is rarely scored on, has few giveaways and plenty of takeaways.

 

Our goalies sv% with Virtanen on the ice

2015-16 .897sv%
2016-17 .1000sv%(10GP)

2017-18 .911sv%
2018-19 .925sv%
2019-20 .927sv%
2020-21 .959sv%
 

 

Those are really interesting advanced stats and I'm glad you posted these.

For the life, I just can't fathom as to why Jake just fell off a cliff.   The guy was pretty damn good in 2020 and no, I don't buy some of the other arguments that he was being fed sheltered minutes (like Adam Gaudette was).  Virtanen looked good in 2020.  18 goals + 18 assists + limited PP time + mainly 3rd line minutes.  I just don't understand what happened to him in the 20/21 season and beyond.  Did Covid take too much of a toll on his mental health?

27 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Benning picked Jake to put his stamp on the team. 

But according to our good friend @Elias Pettersson, et al, Benning had nothing to with the 2014 draft because he was in Boston at the time, and his condition for being a part of the Bruins' organization that year was that he wasn't allowed to partake in any scouting or drafting meetings (and hence, Benning does not get credit for Demko). 

Or are we just going to do with the toxic media in Vancouver does?   (i.e. Blame Benning for the Virtanen pick but praise Judd Bracket and (Thomas Drance?) for selecting Demko, McCann, and Forsling?

11 minutes ago, LaBamba said:

Drugs, a shocking amount of decline in NHL careers can be linked to drugs or alcohol. Coke doesn’t stay in your system. It doesn’t mess with nutrition, so alot of players use it. 

Do we know for a fact that this is what contributed to Virtanen's decline?  

13 minutes ago, Dankmemes187 said:

nope that alls a mirage... Sutter beags and motte were taking all the defensive matchups against the lower tier offences, while Hockey Gaud and virtanen and sutter(he was needed to double shift) played all the offensive minutes against the crappiest players in the history of the NHL... Their minutes where more sheltered in the history of when theses advanced stats where measured... they were poo poo in a lunch bag lit on fire, then thrown into a dumpster fire, surrounded with tires and add gasoline and then lit that on fire too...

 

this is actual picture of me watching them play...

 

That was definitely the case for Adam Gaudette but I'll have to do my homework again on Virtanen.  It's been 4+ years but I seem to recall Virtanen playing fairly well during this time (or perhaps I'm wrong?).  If he was in fact receiving highly sheltered minutes, then I have no idea why Benning chose to re-sign him.  

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

 

 

 I just think Garland is an excellent alternative and his playmaking talent is underutilized on the third line.  Those who are dismissive of his ability on a nightly basis... should pay closer attention and watch the impact he has on the game.

I'm interested to see if our 3rd line has a spike in offensive productivity now that Bluegar is back in the fold.  

Suter-Bluegar-Garland has the potential to be a pretty good 3rd line.

The year is 2020.  

After getting off to a shaky start in his career, Jake Virtanen has finally 'made it.'

Despite getting limited PP time and 3rd line minutes for the most part, Jake Virtanen has 18 goals and 18 assists for 36 points.   

The guy is finally using his size and speed to his advantage and while his hockey IQ still leaves a lot to be desired, it's not nearly the liability that it once was.

And then the 2020 covid lockdown occurs.     

Bubble play-ins are announced many months later and Jake shows up to training camp way out of shape..........and he's never the same player ever again.  

Absolutely shits the bed during the 2020/2021 shortened season and is rightfully told to fuck off after the season.  

So my dear Nucks fans, I ask you the following:  

What the heck happened to Jake Virtanen?

While we can all sit back and criticize Jim Benning for taking a calculated gamble on Jake Virtanen during the 2020 post-bubble off-season, it's not like Benning didn't have good reason to (again, 18 goals + 18 assists with primarily 3rd line minutes + limited PP time in 2019/2020).  

The guy clearly looked like he had turned a corner.........and then he pissed it all away.  

Damn shame....

10 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

I have always been a believer in Conor Garland.  He is a crafty playmaker with a very unique playing style.  Watch him closely and he makes excellent plays on both sides of the ice.  He puts very good passes into the slot - although his teammates haven't converted many chances yet, they are expected to come.

 

 

I don't know if he's a good fit on this team per se, but I think he should absolutely be bumped up to the line with Miller.  Do I think Tocchet is going to demote Di Giuseppe, his favourite player?  I hope he does.  Di Giuseppe is a hard-working defensive winger and the hustle he brings is a better fit on the third line.

 

This is an excellent post and I'm glad you made this.

Agree with you 1000% that we should consider switching Garland and PDG.  

Give the line a look and see what happens.  

You know what's weird?

I actually feel bad for Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg.  It's the Canadian in me and I do have a soft spot for small Canadian market.  Even Ottawa can be lumped in here.

As much as I enjoy seeing Edmonton and Calgary suffer, I don't went them to suffer to a point where players don't want to sign with these three teams for the long term.  It's just the Canadian in me.   

Would be a shame if any one of Calgary, Edmonton, or Winnipeg ended up losing its franchise one day (i.e. ownership relocating).   

I can't say I was happy with what went on with Winnipeg (i.e. Dubois, Byfuglien, Trouba, Laine, etc.), Calgary (Gaudreau, Tkachuk, Toffoli, etc), and what looks like will happen in Edmonton (McDavid and Draisaitl inevitably leaving).   

3 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Wolanin over Hirose?

I think Wolanin is probably the better defenseman at this point.

Let Hirose continue to log big minutes down in the A for his development.

p.s._________I actually have no idea if Hirose is logging big minutes down there but I'm assuming that he is?

3 minutes ago, Falcons said:

Yup

Kuzy is not top six 

Oh boy.  Attitudes sure change in a hurry eh?  

How many goals did Kuzmenko score for us again last year?

29 minutes ago, Riddikulus said:

  On 11/12/2023 at 6:53 AM, RWJC said:

“He’s good in all three zones and the thing about him is his execution rate with the puck is high,” Benning told me. “He can make a play that leads to a scoring chance.”

Yes he praises Cody Glass, but how does that imply that Benning wanted Glass over Pettersson?  I am open to the evidence if I am presented with actual evidence instead of Prince Charles' urine.  

Quote

Linden himself said after the draft that their draft board had one player higher than Pettersson, that player was Makar. If what you are saying is true, then Linden would not have brought the disagreement at all, since consensus among Canucks scouts was that Makar was the better prospect at the time. Pettersson was #2 on the board, so they had him higher than Heiskanen, so they would not have been trading up for Heiskanen.

Can you find me that exact quote?  I can find you the link/article where Benning explicitly states that he likes Cale Makar, and heavily infers that this is whom he may have selected had he been available.  Funny - in this article, Benning also states why he/they clearly liked Pettersson over Glass!

https://theprovince.com/sports/hockey/nhl/vancouver-canucks/draft-notebook-if-makar-was-available-canucks-could-have-been-sweating

@Riddikulus