27 minutes ago, occ78 said:

Bringing lindholm made the team worse and gave up all that assets including #1 pick 

 

The trade in itself doesn't suck.  

What sucks is that Tocchet et al have gone out of their way to try and address a problem that never existed in the first place.

All was good in the Paradise City 5-6 weeks ago.  The grass was green, the men were pretty, and the egg rolls were swinging freely past the knees so to speak.  

Our 2nd line was struggling, but we were still getting both primary and secondary scoring courtesy of the Lotto Line and Bluegar/Garland line.   Our 4th line with Hoglander, Aman, and Lafferty were also doing well.

All we really needed for that 2nd line, with the acquisition of Lindholm, was to be an elite shut down line.  Mikheyev, Suter, and Lindholm are all exceptional defensively and are more than capable of taking on the toughest defensive assignments (even if they are offensively challenged).    

Instead - we broke up the Lotto line and are driving around under the false assumption that Petey is a bus driver a la Matthews/McDavid/MacKinnon.  He's not!  Him and Lindholm aren't a good 2nd line.  

If the Canucks want to do well again, you need to put Pettersson's face straight in Miller's crotch where it belongs.  Reunite the Lotto line + put PDG with Bluegar/Garland until Joshua gets back (for the physical presence), and make Lindholm/Suter/Mikheyev an elite shut down line.  

Make Canucks Great Again.

5 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Y They were the best line in the league leading up to the ASG. Then we acquire Lindholm and make a mess of our chemistry up front. Now we're shuffling players everywhere.

100%

I don't know why others aren't seeing this.   Despite our impotent 2nd line, pre-Lindholm trade, the Canucks were still getting secondary scoring via our 3rd and 4th lines.  Lindholm has struggled offensively this season but is still defensively elite.  Use that!  Play the guy with Suter and Mikheyev and see how they do with toughest defensive assignments.  If they can succeed in such a role, then that frees up the Lotto line for more offensive deployment.  Bluegar/Garland + PDG (Joshua when he comes back) will give us all the secondary scoring that we need.  Hoglander on the 4th line is also a hidden gem (with Aman and Lafferty).  

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser [primary scoring]

Mikheyev-Lindholm-Suter [elite shutdown]

PDG-Bluegar-Garland [secondary scoring]

Hoglander-Aman-Lafferty [auxillary scoring]

3 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

JR has a left an interesting legacy behind in those two cities.  There is a reason he isn't totally revered.  You can divide his reign on each team into a part 1 and part 2.  Canes/Pens loved part 1.  They hated part 2.

 

Water is wet and Rutherford will trade aggressively.  I neither oppose nor support it - it's just a matter of fact.  So to that end, I wouldn't look for a scapegoat here.  It's not any one person's fault we're losing games.  There's plenty of blame to go around.

I'm just wondering if a part of the reason is stemming from the fact that the boys don't feel comfortable (i.e. fear of being moved, wondering if old man JR doesn't have faith in the current team, etc., and that's why he's making all these moves).    

A month or so, I think too many people (fans, media, and management) were making too big of a deal of our impotent 2nd line (Mikheyev-Suter-Kuzmenko).  

While I agree that the 2nd line probably needed some kind of change, the Canucks were still firing on almost every single cylinder.  Lotto line was producing, Bluegar/Garland line was killing it, and Hoglander was producing on the 4th line.  

Even now, I say put the Lotto Line back together on a permanent basis and let them drive the team.  Yes, they'll have ups and downs but let them gel and don't look back.

Mikheyev, Lindholm, and Suter are all excellent defensive players......quite possibly among the best in the league.  So they can't score, who gives us fuck?  Make them an elite shut down line.  See how they do with the toughest defensive assignments.  Let Lotto Line + Bluegar/Garland line (with PDG while Joshua is out) provide primary and secondary scoring.

Why was Juulsen playing with Hughes?  

If the wheel ain't broke??

Tocchet, Alvin, and Rutherford need to stop overthinking shit.  

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Hey!  You're one to talk!  You make a proposal almost daily and some of them are batshit crazy!  It's like... trying to write a song each day.

Fair enough.  

3 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Not seeing a PGT, so here's my low effort, first and last one because I wanna meme.

 

5-1 Kings, Canucks are 1-5-1 in their last 7.

 

Miller, Boeser, Hogs, and Garland looking at the rest of the squad.

They're overcomplicating things in my eyes.   

Too much volatility outside of the rink with Rutherford/Alvin trying to over-trade (and inadvertently altering the culture and/or demonstrating a lack of faith to the boys who have worked hard all season).

If the wheel ain't broke?

Create three lines with a duo anchoring each line:

Line One:  Petey/Miller

Line Two:  Lindholm/Boeser

Line Three:   Bluegar/Garland

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I think Joel Eriksson Ek is one of the cheapest 1st line centres in the NHL right now.  Can't think of too many others.  Boone Jenner?  Ryan O'Reilly?  Hehe - Elias Lindholm!??

 

@CanucksFan26 This is an extremely poor return for Minnesota.  Think of it this way - do you think Lindholm would accept a long-term $5M AAV contract?  Because I can't think of a player on that Wild team that offers more cap flexibility than Eriksson Ek.  He's already a fantastic fit on that team, so getting rid of him (for such a pitiful return) is absolute insanity.  Add two first round picks and the trade still makes zero sense.

You're correct.

It's why I always cringe when posters on here make proposals involving guys like Eriksson EK or Jack Hughes.  

In the cap world, it's not necessarily about getting the best player.  It's more about which player brings the most 'bang for the buck' so to speak.  

Semi-related note; Petey's not worth $12 million in my opinion.   I know the advanced stats point to the fact that he's a bus driver (atleast to a large extent), but the eye test for me says otherwise.  Petey's a very very good player but he's not McDavid/Matthews/MacKinnon category.   

Should be an interesting few days......

5 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

No player is safe under a team run by Jim Rutherford.  He has always been an aggressive GM under Carolina and Pittsburgh.  If there is a trade to be made, you can bet your ass that Trader Jim's gonna try to make it happen.

For better and for worse I guess.  

The more trades you make, the greater the likelihood in altering culture and team chemistry.  

Speaking of which, what's our overall record been since the Lindholm trade?   

Kuzmenko wasn't playing well for us but the guy was loved in the lockeroom.  

Just saying....

9 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Nope, now is the time to give signals to Allvin about eventual upgrades. 
Where are the holes? 

Does it make sense for a Top 5 NHL team to be making numerous changes?..........especially after they've been successful for 90-95% of the season?

Or, would it make more sense to create stability and let the team gel?  

To what extent do constant trades and constant volatility start to have a negative effect on the players?

Eriksson EK arguably has the best value contract in the league. 

He's the heart and soul of Minnesota.

No way the Wild give him up for that package.  

20 minutes ago, KesLord said:

I'm a big fan of Petey, but if the Hurricane's offer a package that involves Svechnikov... I feel like you HAVE to take it. 

 

Svech

Necas

1st

 

for

 

Petey

What about something around Brady Tkachuk and Ottawa?   

BT wants out and Sens are apparently trying to change their culture.

Petey and Boeser for Tkachuk and Stutzle.

Bo Horvat wanted to sign long term and be a Canuck for life.

Just saying.  

1 minute ago, JeremyCuddles said:

The Lotto line has been ass when they were together. Petey has been bad. Honestly would rather see them stick Hogs with Miller and Boeser and just let them hard carry this team til Joshua comes back. So we can reunite our actual 2nd line of Blueger, Garly and Joshua. Tell Petey, Mik and Lindholm to just not get scored on.

Have we seen Miller with Lindholm yet?  (I haven't been able to watch much hockey this past month).  I'd try Miller/Lindholm as a match-ups line of some kind and then have Suter-Pettersson-Boeser on Line 2 (Suter helping out with Faceoffs, etc.).    

Line One:  Miller/Lindholm

Line Two:  Petey/Boeser

Line Three: Bluegar/Garland.   

Interchange the wingers.  

Let’s be honest. As of this writing, the Canucks are being taken to Michael Jackson’s Neverland Ranch by the LA Kings.  In thinking about the Canucks and their first real slump of the season, two things have come to mind:  

1.  No more trades unless they’re very minor ones.  The old saying?  If the wheel ain’t broke?  While it’s admirable to make trades to improve the team, the flip side is that over trading can lead to alterations in team chemistry.  We’ve had excellent team chemistry all season and so making more deals can only hurt chemistry at this point.  Making too many trades also creates too much of a volatile environment which can make players nervous.  
 

So with that, I say this:  NO MORE TRADES THIS SEASON (unless very minor).  
 

2) Re-unite the Lotto line.  Again, if the wheel ain’t broke. Much like the 2002-2004 WCE and the 2010-2012 Sedins/Burrows, the Lotto line were tearing shit up.  Yes, they had started to cool down a bit but they had a very strong presence.  While our 2nd line was impotent, it was almost irrelevant since our 3rd and 4th lines were creating almost all of the secondary scoring that we needed. You had Garland’s line on the 3rd while Hoglander was lighting it up on the 4th.

Again, if the wheel ain’t broke?

Turn Mikheyev-Lindholm-Suter into a “defense first” shut down line.  Let Lotton line + PDG-Bluegar-Garland (Joshua when he comes back) provide our primary and secondary offense. 
 

Move Lindholm up if someone from the Lotto line gets hurt.  
 

No more trades, reduce the volatile environment, and go back to the way things were. That’s how we get this Canucks team to its pre all-star 2011 levels as opposed to this poor man’s 2012 version that we are currently seeing.

19 minutes ago, stawns said:

18 goals 40+ points last year as a 22 year old

Kotkaniemi sucks more balls than prime Michael Jackson.  Easy pass for me.

13 minutes ago, aGENT said:

 

I'd take Forsberg over McDavid any day.

Prime Forsberg just might be the most underrated legend of all-time.  I think many fans forget as to just how good peak Forsberg truly was.  Now having said that, I’d probably still take McDavid (22-23 version), but the decision for me would not be easy.

For fun, Something around Pettersson to Tampa for Cirreli and Cernak (again, I wouldn’t do this, but just a hypothetical).

Suter-Miller-Boeser

Hoglander-Cirreli-Lindholm

Joshua-Bluegar-Garland

Mikheyev-Aman-Lafferty

Hughes-Cernak

Soucy-Hronek

Cole-Zadorov

Demko

DeSmith

I still think a line of

Mikheyev-Lindholm-Suter would have some practical use for us as an elite shut down line that can take on tough defensive match ups and potentially counter/score.  
 

Let the Lotto line and Garland line produce primary and secondary offense. 
 

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser

Mikheyev-Lindholm-Suter

Hoglander-Bluegar-Garland (until DJ comes back)

Seravalli: Pettersson extension could be finalized in the next few days

2 hours ago, Tocchet.A.Hockey.God said:

Mikheyev for Grandlund. Canucks throw in a kicker lower end prospect or 4th 5th round pick.

 

Simply the Canucks do it because Mik has 2 more years after this season Granlund has 1 more. Granlund Can center PP2 unit and center a PK unit. Granlund can play both center and right win. Petty Lindholm and Granlund would be better then we have now. 

 

Since Granlund came back from injury SJS hasn't sucked as much. The return of Granlund to the SJS help them get out of their terrible losing streak in the beginning of the season.

 

Yes I am aware that Mik has a M-NTC and he would have to wave to go to SJS. But if he did would you like or dislike the trade.

 

Granlund I believe is underrated. Lindholm was over rated. If we lose Blueger in the off season Granlund could easily slide into that 3rd line center spot. 

 

Why SJS does it, possible decent return to them if Mik finds his grove again, which I believe is possible in SJS as it is not under a strong defensive structure. 

 

Why Mik might wave, if he doesn't find is grove again his last contract in the NHL wont be as much as his current one is.

 

Why JR and PA do this trade to get rid of one of their biggest mistakes to date. They already moved on from Kuz which was a bad signing as well.

I would but why would San Jose?  I think it would take a bit more than a 4th/5th or a mid calibre prospect.

That extra year off the books would be a nice advantage however.

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Weighted across the last three years - I never get why people miss that part.  As you can see from his trends on the right, his finishing has completely plummeted.  But Miky plays a very solid two-way game.  As for his penalties?  He has drawn 12 penalties for us this season.  Mikheyev earns too much for his lack of scoring, but just because he can't score doesn't mean he's not an effective player on this team.

I wonder what a line of

Mikheyev-Lindholm-Suter would look like.

All of these players are exceptional defensively and would have the makings of an excellent shut down line (with some half decent potential to score).  Under a fully healthy line up:

Miller-Pettersson-Boeser 

Mikheyev-Lindholm-Suter

Joshua-Bluegar-Garland

The Lotto line would be alpha line while the Garland line would produce secondary scoring.  The Lindholm line would then be our match-ups/shut down line and take on the toughest defensive match ups.  Wondering if something like that could work?

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Alright, so I can tell you haven't really followed Kane and the Oilers much this year.  The man has scored only 15 points in his last 34 games - the bulk of his goals came at the beginning of the year, when they were losing.  Now that Knoblauch's defensive system has set in, he's completely lost his top six spot to Warren Foegele.  Foegele, to his credit, is not offensively gifted like Kane but works his ass off and has been rewarded with more minutes. 

 

Evander Kane has always been an extremely streaky scorer throughout his career, but right now, he simply lacks the work ethic to play both sides of the ice.  When he's not scoring, Kane is an extremely lazy player who negatively impacts the game when he's not scoring.  He will spear and jab at players and get himself into penalty trouble, like he did last night against the Kings.  You say we have the best coaching staff in the entire league.  He would probably lose his spot on the top six after one game under Tocchet.

 

What did our coaches do with Tyler Myers?  You tell me - what did they do with Myers?  Did Myers have an attitude problem or a work ethic problem like Evander Kane?  No.  You are misunderstanding what the coaches have done to drive this team to success this year. 

You are correct that I haven’t followed the Oilers this year.

One thing that you’ve highlighted, which I think is an excellent point, is the fact that Kane has struggled under a new system that stresses two way play and accountability. Given that, I think you are correct that there would be a strong likelihood of Kane not fitting well here.

Just now, Miss Korea said:

 

Evander Kane would likely have an immediate negative impact.  The reason he has lost minutes under Kris Knoblauch is because he lacks the work ethic to be an effective forechecker and takes stupid penalties all the time.  It would be better just to get Phil Kessel, who also cheats defensively but isn't guilty of putting his team shorthanded all the time.  Plus he'll be dirt cheap on a short term.

Kane still has 21 goals this season does he not?

Also, do we not have arguably the best coaching staff in the entire league?

I mean look at what these guys did with Tyler Myers.

Is Kane past his prime, or just a few quick fixes away (from a good coaching staff) to get his game back on track?

1 minute ago, Bardown said:

There was talk yesterday from Ryan Rishaug that Kane is causing waves in the Edmonton locker room now. Apparently unhappy with his 3rd line minutes and having issues with Draisatl....As usual, the real Kane eventually shows up. No thanks, we don't need a locker room cancer, non team player, and guess what, let the Oilers deal with the turmoil, even better for us.

Evander Kane is a first class cunt.  Absolutely no argument from me there.

He was a lockerroom cancer in Winnipeg, Buffalo, San Jose, and now Edmonton.   Absolutely no doubt.

However - based on Evander’s history, here is what I think would happen if he came to Vancouver.

1. He would have an immediate positive impact in Vancouver and would want to “stick it” to Edmonton (ie a potential 2nd round opponent)

2. He would help us greatly for this season.

3. Kane wouldn’t become a lockeroom cancer in Vancouver until 2025-2026……which would be the final year of his contract (i.e  we could send him to the minors if he acts like a little shit, lol).  
 

Bottom line?  I think Evander would help us greatly for this season and unlike Guentzel, he could be potentially had for far cheaper.

52 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

Like the idea but nah. Too much risk for an aging goal scorer. 

 

I'd rather keep Mik and see if we can get him going again. Or pair him with a 1st and try to upgrade on that position. 

 

Lawson Crouse for a 1st round draft pick and Mik would be a dream. Not really sure what Arizona's plan is at this point but if they are still rebuilding then perhaps they would be willing to move off a couple of their guys in their mid 20s. 

Agreed that there’d be too much risk, but my question is……..when?

While history has shown the Eastvander is a lockerroom cancer, history has also shown that he’s actually “the consummate professional” (lol) during his first two seasons on a new team. 
 

If history is of any indication, we wouldn’t see the “real” Evander Kane until 2025-2026……..when he’d be in his final year…….a few years removed from our cup victory.

1. Forget about Guentzel.  Would cost too high quality of a prospect.

2. Mikheyev++ for Evander Kane.

The bad news?  Evander Kane is a lockerroom cancer and a douchebag. The good news?  Kane doesn’t turn into a douchebag and a lockerroom cancer for atleast a couple of years on a new team…….meaning, that we’d get only the positives of Kane for the first two seasons.  Kane would turn into a douche two years later but he’d only have a year left on his contract……and he will have helped us win a cup in 2024.

Buddy is everything that we currently need.