[PGT] Canucks vs Sharks - Nov 20, 2023

[stawns]

29 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

No question mark.  He had 7 years to get the right head coach for this team.  That should be more than enough time to fill that very important position.  A better position for Jim Benning would've be assistant GM (much like Dave Nonis).  And certainly not for him to have a guy like John Weisbrod as his #2.

 

his biggest stumble, per coaches, was BB.  Everything was going well with Green and for whatever reason the wheels came off after the bubble playoff run.  Up to that point, he had them playing very much the way RT has them playing. 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

his biggest stumble, per coaches, was BB.  Everything was going well with Green and for whatever reason the wheels came off after the bubble playoff run.  Up to that point, he had them playing very much the way RT has them playing. 

Well Demko was playing out of his mind then (granted, Demko playing even at just "regular levels" is still a pretty damn good goalie).

Edited November 21, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[PhillipBlunt]

To Benning's credit, he did draft well (for the most part). Hard to look at Virtanen and Juolevi and not feel some rage.

 

I think Benning would have fared way better had he had a president who kept him in check and questioned some of his less than sensible moves. There was one when he first started, but once Linden left(?), nothing. 

[Hairy Kneel]

3 hours ago, grumpyone said:

not sure how THIS isn't intent to injure.

That should have been a 5.

[Rekker]

50 minutes ago, Chickenspear said:

1st career major, no suspension or fine history, no injury on the play. Should be a fine at the most, but he's a Canuck, so I expect he gets 3 games.

We will probably have to forfeit our first as well. 

[JayDangles]

11 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Good.  No suspension 

 

 

 

I'll admit I'm pleasantly surprised. My Canucks fandom automatically assumed he would be suspended given how the DOPS like to stick it to anyone not named Marchand, and especially a west coast team. Maybe there is life in the DOPS after all.

 

[EdgarM]

23 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

It's honestly incredible to see what he is doing on the blue line. RT talks about Quinn walking the line all the time and talked about how difficult it was as a forward to cover a dman when you had no idea which way he was gonna go. 

RT was talking about how Quinn added a few moves on the blue line this summer. I really think it's a cheat code. 

The problem with Quinn was that while doing amazing things, he used to turn it over sometimes which led to transition and goals against. I believe the things he worked on this summer were things that gave him outs when walking the blue line to eliminate these turnovers and keep puck possession and create better looks. 

It's like he's programmed in that if a forward angles him off one way, he already has 2 moves at his disposable to escape it and find either a skating or passing lane. 

He's literally changing the game of hockey for defensemen. 

 

I don't disagree with you but that abilty to turn it up when we need a goal or we need something else, is an art form. Whether something needs to said in the dressing room between periods to get the guys to push out that little extra? or just lead by example? Thats what makes Hughes a different Captain then say , a McDavid. We are lucky to have this group who have many of the tools needed to be successful.

[EdgarM]

26 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

his biggest stumble, per coaches, was BB.  Everything was going well with Green and for whatever reason the wheels came off after the bubble playoff run.  Up to that point, he had them playing very much the way RT has them playing. 

I disagree, yes they had increased their overall effort but they still cheated defensively and I never once seen Boeser "body check" or "back check" back then. Demko kept them afloat for most of it. That kind of  play was not sustainable at all.

[conquestofbaguettes]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

 

We had an empty farm system at the start of this current management team.  Certainly no better than the one Benning inherited.  And that's after years of drafting in a significantly higher drafting position(s).

 

Our Canadian amateur scouting still sucked as bad as under previous regimes.  The "home run" hits in the draft were from our international amateur scouts largely.

 

Discussing the "farm team" like that is basically a false equivalence argument.

 

Each regime was simply at different stages of team development.

 

Benning had "no prospects in the system", largely because they were playing in the NHL already.  Rebuilds be like that.

 

Gillis had no prospects because they were shit at drafting, traded away picks and prospects while trying to compete for cups. (Which I don't necessarily disagree with as you need to strike while the iron is hot.) Nevethelsss, that's why he had nothing.

 

Very different reasons.

 

Which is also of note, maybe if Gillis left the previous regime with a little value to build around you wouldn't have a false equivalence argument to make in the first place.

 

What's past is prologue, my friend.

 

 

[luckylager]

22 minutes ago, Rekker said:

We will probably have to forfeit our first as well. 

And we get a new 3m cap penalty.

[JamesB]

5 hours ago, Silent Man said:

Thank you, James! What is your opinion on Petey's game?

A few comments about Petey.

 

1. First, Petey is 5th in NHL scoring (actually tied for 4th in points with Kucherov but the NHL counts the guy with more goals as being ahead). That puts Petey ahead of guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, etc.

 

2. Second, even though his +/- is "only" +3 (much less than Miller at +11 despite playing easier minutes) his underlying advanced stats are very good. The Evolving Hockey xGAR stat has him behind Hughes, Miller, and Boeser and ahead of everyone else on the team. I think that is pretty fair. 

 

3. His "Edge" data is very good -- with a high top skating speed (70th percentile among forwards) and lots of high speed bursts (92nd percentile), and one of the hardest shots in the league.

 

4. Petey has improved his faceoffs and is up to 50% overall. He is also good on the PK.

 

5. Petey has clearly had some physical problems at times -- probably his ankle early in the season and his wrist more recently. 

 

6. By the "eye test" I think Petey has been very good overall, but not quite as good as I expected. One thing is that Petey's scoring numbers benefit quite a lot from being on the PP where I think Hughes and Miller really "drive the bus".  Also, his scoring numbers are a bit inflated by a couple of blow-out wins where everything was going in. The other big factor is that Miller gets much tougher minutes than Petey. Miller is almost always hard-matched against the other team's top line and Miller gets more D-zone faceoffs. Petey "should" actually be scoring more than Miller.

 

7. Petey's linemates have not been as good as I hoped. Mikheyev was still injured to start the season and no-one really managed to fill that spot effectively until Mikheyev came back. And Kuzy has not been as good as he was last year. Most of us were thinking of Petey, Mik, and Kuzy as the "top line" but, by deployment and performance, the Miller line is definitely the top line.

 

8. Over the last few games in particularly Petey has not looked quite 100%. It is reasonable to expect that he might be better as the season progresses than he has been in the last few games as his nagging injuries go away and his linemates (Mik and Kuzy) get more comfortable with Tocchett's approach and with their own health. (Mik's knee is still probably not 100% and Kuzy just took a slap shot to the face).

 

Bottom line: I think Petey has been the 3rd most valuable skater on the team this year (after Hughes and Miller). I don't think he has  played like a guy who deserves a $12 million cap hit but I would jump at the chance to sign him for 11 or less for any term of 3 or more years. We are pretty lucky to have three elite skaters on the team and an elite or near-elite goalie. We are struggling with depth on D, which makes me nervous, but I am optimistic about the season.

[PAVEL_BURE10]

Really love how Joshua played last night

[Outsiders]

2 minutes ago, PAVEL_BURE10 said:

Really love how Joshua played last night

 

He played well last night. He needs to be physical and win his battles down low to be in the lineup.

 

Hopefully when Suter is back we can run with a lineup of

 

 

Joshua-Suter-Garland

PDG-Blueger-Lafferty

[PhillipBlunt]

12 hours ago, Shekky said:

 

Fresh off his win at the Mini Tom Selleck lookalike contest. 

[PAVEL_BURE10]

1 minute ago, Outsiders said:

 

He played well last night. He needs to be physical and win his battles down low to be in the lineup.

 

Hopefully when Suter is back we can run with a lineup of

 

 

Joshua-Suter-Garland

PDG-Blueger-Lafferty

Who you have sitting out?? Hogs?? He’s playing good to tho 

[Viper007]

I don’t know if it has been said, but those matte black helmets looked awesome!

[Outsiders]

4 minutes ago, PAVEL_BURE10 said:

Who you have sitting out?? Hogs?? He’s playing good to tho 

Tough decision. Love Hogs but until Beau is traded him and Laff/Joshua might need to rotate. Can't bench Beau or his value goes to 0.

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

Tough decision. Love Hogs but until Beau is traded him and Laff/Joshua might need to rotate. Can't bench Beau or his value goes to 0.

Seems like Beau’s play is what is dropping his value. 

[Rip The Mesh]

59 minutes ago, Jaimito said:

Good.  No suspension 

 

 

 

I hope that 58 cents goes to good use. 

[Outsiders]

5 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Seems like Beau’s play is what is dropping his value. 

He looked good last night with Boeser and Miller. I'd try him there another game and drop PDG. We need to score more 5v5. Doesn't hurt to try it for a game. Doesn't work bring PDG back up to that line

[Silent Man]

26 minutes ago, JamesB said:

A few comments about Petey.

 

1. First, Petey is 5th in NHL scoring (actually tied for 4th in points with Kucherov but the NHL counts the guy with more goals as being ahead). That puts Petey ahead of guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, etc.

 

2. Second, even though his +/- is "only" +3 (much less than Miller at +11 despite playing easier minutes) his underlying advanced stats are very good. The Evolving Hockey xGAR stat has him behind Hughes, Miller, and Boeser and ahead of everyone else on the team. I think that is pretty fair. 

 

3. His "Edge" data is very good -- with a high top skating speed (70th percentile among forwards) and lots of high speed bursts (92nd percentile), and one of the hardest shots in the league.

 

4. Petey has improved his faceoffs and is up to 50% overall. He is also good on the PK.

 

5. Petey has clearly had some physical problems at times -- probably his ankle early in the season and his wrist more recently. 

 

6. By the "eye test" I think Petey has been very good overall, but not quite as good as I expected. One thing is that Petey's scoring numbers benefit quite a lot from being on the PP where I think Hughes and Miller really "drive the bus".  Also, his scoring numbers are a bit inflated by a couple of blow-out wins where everything was going in. The other big factor is that Miller gets much tougher minutes than Petey. Miller is almost always hard-matched against the other team's top line and Miller gets more D-zone faceoffs. Petey "should" actually be scoring more than Miller.

 

7. Petey's linemates have not been as good as I hoped. Mikheyev was still injured to start the season and no-one really managed to fill that spot effectively until Mikheyev came back. And Kuzy has not been as good as he was last year. Most of us were thinking of Petey, Mik, and Kuzy as the "top line" but, by deployment and performance, the Miller line is definitely the top line.

 

8. Over the last few games in particularly Petey has not looked quite 100%. It is reasonable to expect that he might be better as the season progresses than he has been in the last few games as his nagging injuries go away and his linemates (Mik and Kuzy) get more comfortable with Tocchett's approach and with their own health. (Mik's knee is still probably not 100% and Kuzy just took a slap shot to the face).

 

Bottom line: I think Petey has been the 3rd most valuable skater on the team this year (after Hughes and Miller). I don't think he has  played like a guy who deserves a $12 million cap hit but I would jump at the chance to sign him for 11 or less for any term of 3 or more years. We are pretty lucky to have three elite skaters on the team and an elite or near-elite goalie. We are struggling with depth on D, which makes me nervous, but I am optimistic about the season.

Thank you, sounds good, I am worried about his last few games, seems he was better yesterday

[NewbieCanuckFan]

55 minutes ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

 

Which is also of note, maybe if Gillis left the previous regime with a little value to build around you wouldn't have a false equivalence argument to make in the first place.

 

What's past is prologue, my friend.

 

 

You do realize that our 2nd best defenseman on the team right now was acquired largely from the asset from a player Gills drafted?  How old were Tanev and Markstrom when Benning was hired?  24.  How old was Edler?  28/29.   Not alot to be sure but hardly nothing imho.  And as you said, each GM had different goals when they were hired.

 

We'll just have to agree to disagree.  Think both previous GMs left cleaning up to do on our farm club (else we wouldn't have players like Juulsen anywhere but in Abby.

Edited November 21, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Wiggums]

Kuzy ain't doing enough out there for Petey

 

The Miller line dominates.  Beauvillier maybe sticking with them?  Brings a bit more speed than Phil

 

 

[Rip The Mesh]

12 hours ago, PhillipBlunt said:

I strongly approve of this gif 

[Barn Burner]

42 minutes ago, JamesB said:

A few comments about Petey.

 

1. First, Petey is 5th in NHL scoring (actually tied for 4th in points with Kucherov but the NHL counts the guy with more goals as being ahead). That puts Petey ahead of guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, etc.

 

2. Second, even though his +/- is "only" +3 (much less than Miller at +11 despite playing easier minutes) his underlying advanced stats are very good. The Evolving Hockey xGAR stat has him behind Hughes, Miller, and Boeser and ahead of everyone else on the team. I think that is pretty fair. 

 

3. His "Edge" data is very good -- with a high top skating speed (70th percentile among forwards) and lots of high speed bursts (92nd percentile), and one of the hardest shots in the league.

 

4. Petey has improved his faceoffs and is up to 50% overall. He is also good on the PK.

 

5. Petey has clearly had some physical problems at times -- probably his ankle early in the season and his wrist more recently. 

 

6. By the "eye test" I think Petey has been very good overall, but not quite as good as I expected. One thing is that Petey's scoring numbers benefit quite a lot from being on the PP where I think Hughes and Miller really "drive the bus".  Also, his scoring numbers are a bit inflated by a couple of blow-out wins where everything was going in. The other big factor is that Miller gets much tougher minutes than Petey. Miller is almost always hard-matched against the other team's top line and Miller gets more D-zone faceoffs. Petey "should" actually be scoring more than Miller.

 

7. Petey's linemates have not been as good as I hoped. Mikheyev was still injured to start the season and no-one really managed to fill that spot effectively until Mikheyev came back. And Kuzy has not been as good as he was last year. Most of us were thinking of Petey, Mik, and Kuzy as the "top line" but, by deployment and performance, the Miller line is definitely the top line.

 

8. Over the last few games in particularly Petey has not looked quite 100%. It is reasonable to expect that he might be better as the season progresses than he has been in the last few games as his nagging injuries go away and his linemates (Mik and Kuzy) get more comfortable with Tocchett's approach and with their own health. (Mik's knee is still probably not 100% and Kuzy just took a slap shot to the face).

 

Bottom line: I think Petey has been the 3rd most valuable skater on the team this year (after Hughes and Miller). I don't think he has  played like a guy who deserves a $12 million cap hit but I would jump at the chance to sign him for 11 or less for any term of 3 or more years. We are pretty lucky to have three elite skaters on the team and an elite or near-elite goalie. We are struggling with depth on D, which makes me nervous, but I am optimistic about the season.

I would try Hoglander with Petey and Mik. Drop Kuz to the 2nd with Miller. 

 

At least give it a shot. 

 

Shake it up a bit. Hogz is a buzz saw, gets in on the forecheck and has enough offensive prowess to potentially click with Petey, and or Miller. 

 

There's nothing to lose. 

 

And by the way, this isn't about upping Beau's value. He's been playing pretty decent, anyway. 

 

This is about finding the best chemistry for each line, and getting 'em all rolling.