[PGT] Canucks vs Sharks - Nov 20, 2023

[Poler]

I hope they play better against the avs next game than how they were yesterday. Some of there plays were too fancy and I hope top line can create more chemistry like from the beginning of the season.

[Rusty Shackleford]

11 hours ago, JamesB said:

Late comments.

 

1. Great to get back in the win column. A lot of people (including me) might have been pressing the panic button if we had lost.

 

2. And it was a hard-fought game. San Jose is playing a lot better now than earlier in the season and their goalie played well. Instead of everything going in, like the last game against the Sharks, tonight it was tough sledding for the Canucks. We did not get the bounces and had to play a tough high energy game for 60 minutes. And the 5 minute major against Hogs did not help.

 

3. To re-state the obvious, Hughes was outstanding tonight, much better than in the last game. In the "Statcards" advanced stats he was almost off the chart. And he leads the league in scoring, assists, and plus/minus, playing heavy tough minutes and playing great at both ends of the ice.

 

4. Nice to see the bottom 6 forwards playing well. Joshua had a great game and the entire line of Joshua, Blueger, and Garland had the ice titled in the right direction pretty much every time they were on the ice.

 

5. Juulsen had a decent game and played almost 15 minutes. I would not say his game was "good" but it was a lot better than it has been recently. I was wondering how Tocchet could keep putting him back on the ice, but he  held his own tonight. And Tocchet likes the fact that he plays a fairly tough hard-nosed game.  

 

6. Lots of angst over the Hogs call. I think it was a close call. Sort of looked like two guys pushing and shoving and one guy got pushed over. But in slo-motion, Hogs definitely put his leg behind Lebanc and used leverage to trip him. Having his foot in "slew foot" position might have been an accident, but then using leverage to make the guy fall backwards does not look accidental. The NHL is trying to take that play out of the game. Like I said, it was fairly close to the margin and similar plays are sometimes missed or called minor penalties, but I am not going to complain about the call. I like Hogs and hope he does well but he plays "on the edge" and the referees are not going to cut him any slack.

 

7. The Canucks were the significantly better team tonight. Some people will say that the Canucks should have done better playing against a team this bad. I think that is wrong. San Jose played with a lot of energy tonight and got good goaltending. If the Canucks play this well every night I think they are a lock to at least make the playoffs and maybe do something once they get there. 

 

Just to add to Juulsen.  He has simplified his game but needs to work on his pivots/edge work to solidify himself in the NHL.  Many times he skated himself into a corner, so to speak, and ends up ringing it around the boards.  I'm pulling for the kid to make it as he brings the toughness we need more of.  

 

Great post, as always, James.

[sxqhfeh]

 

[Rip The Mesh]

Wonder where the little sparkplug is?

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

his biggest stumble, per coaches, was BB.  Everything was going well with Green and for whatever reason the wheels came off after the bubble playoff run.  Up to that point, he had them playing very much the way RT has them playing. 

 

Yeah it was quite a similar style. In my mind the team got sick of the GM moves and the lack of putting the right pieces together. They just got sick of having crap players in important positions and collectively butting their heads against the wall and the entire group gave up. There were also some leadership issues on the club as well from both Horvat and also veteran guys like Miller who needed to grow mentally.

[grumpyone]

1 minute ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Wonder where the little sparkplug is?

starbucks run?

[AnthonyG]

48 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Seems like Beau’s play is what is dropping his value. 

In what sense?

averages 13:30 TOI

53.3%oZS in all situations

52.2% CORSI

 

44%oZS at 5v5 and a 49.2% CORSI

He helps drive possession which is attributed to his 10 takeaways which is 2nd on the team, with far less icetime than Hughes, Petey and Miller.

 

Our goalies save % while he is on the ice is .982sv%, which leads the team.

 

He’s been on the ice for 13 goals for and 3 against in all situations.

 

19gp 2g 5a 7pts +8

 

He may not be producing at a .5+ rate, but hes damn close and he is getting limited ice time and no PP1 time and no favourable zone starts. He is however contributing in just about every single way possible and it is having an impact on games. Lets see what he can do with better linemates, more icetime and more opportunities overall 

 

 

 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, JamesB said:

A few comments about Petey.

 

1. First, Petey is 5th in NHL scoring (actually tied for 4th in points with Kucherov but the NHL counts the guy with more goals as being ahead). That puts Petey ahead of guys like McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon, etc.

 

2. Second, even though his +/- is "only" +3 (much less than Miller at +11 despite playing easier minutes) his underlying advanced stats are very good. The Evolving Hockey xGAR stat has him behind Hughes, Miller, and Boeser and ahead of everyone else on the team. I think that is pretty fair. 

 

3. His "Edge" data is very good -- with a high top skating speed (70th percentile among forwards) and lots of high speed bursts (92nd percentile), and one of the hardest shots in the league.

 

4. Petey has improved his faceoffs and is up to 50% overall. He is also good on the PK.

 

5. Petey has clearly had some physical problems at times -- probably his ankle early in the season and his wrist more recently. 

 

6. By the "eye test" I think Petey has been very good overall, but not quite as good as I expected. One thing is that Petey's scoring numbers benefit quite a lot from being on the PP where I think Hughes and Miller really "drive the bus".  Also, his scoring numbers are a bit inflated by a couple of blow-out wins where everything was going in. The other big factor is that Miller gets much tougher minutes than Petey. Miller is almost always hard-matched against the other team's top line and Miller gets more D-zone faceoffs. Petey "should" actually be scoring more than Miller.

 

7. Petey's linemates have not been as good as I hoped. Mikheyev was still injured to start the season and no-one really managed to fill that spot effectively until Mikheyev came back. And Kuzy has not been as good as he was last year. Most of us were thinking of Petey, Mik, and Kuzy as the "top line" but, by deployment and performance, the Miller line is definitely the top line.

 

8. Over the last few games in particularly Petey has not looked quite 100%. It is reasonable to expect that he might be better as the season progresses than he has been in the last few games as his nagging injuries go away and his linemates (Mik and Kuzy) get more comfortable with Tocchett's approach and with their own health. (Mik's knee is still probably not 100% and Kuzy just took a slap shot to the face).

 

Bottom line: I think Petey has been the 3rd most valuable skater on the team this year (after Hughes and Miller). I don't think he has  played like a guy who deserves a $12 million cap hit but I would jump at the chance to sign him for 11 or less for any term of 3 or more years. We are pretty lucky to have three elite skaters on the team and an elite or near-elite goalie. We are struggling with depth on D, which makes me nervous, but I am optimistic about the season.

Awesome post. Thanks for all the data. 

I do feel like pucks will start going in for that line. 

What a luxury it is to have the Miller line and the bottom 6 playing so well. Allows the Petey line to work through it and get back on track. 

I do wonder if a buzz saw like Hogz can get that line going. 

The other lines are playing well so not sure if we should keep the lines intact and let Petey figure it out. 

 

[JayDangles]

30 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

I would try Hoglander with Petey and Mik. Drop Kuz to the 2nd with Miller. 

 

At least give it a shot. 

 

Shake it up a bit. Hogz is a buzz saw, gets in on the forecheck and has enough offensive prowess to potentially click with Petey, and or Miller. 

 

There's nothing to lose. 

 

And by the way, this isn't about upping Beau's value. He's been playing pretty decent, anyway. 

 

This is about finding the best chemistry for each line, and getting 'em all rolling.

I hate to say it... but we might want to drop Kuz further down the lineup. He really isn't showing much of anything this season. 

There are other guys that are working a lot harder and may produce better if given more opportunity.  Kuz is the likely guy to go down the lineup

[JayDangles]

9 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

In what sense?

averages 13:30 TOI

53.3%oZS in all situations

52.2% CORSI

 

44%oZS at 5v5 and a 49.2% CORSI

He helps drive possession which is attributed to his 10 takeaways which is 2nd on the team, with far less icetime than Hughes, Petey and Miller.

 

Our goalies save % while he is on the ice is .982sv%, which leads the team.

 

He’s been on the ice for 13 goals for and 3 against in all situations.

 

19gp 2g 5a 7pts +8

 

He may not be producing at a .5+ rate, but hes damn close and he is getting limited ice time and no PP1 time and no favourable zone starts. He is however contributing in just about every single way possible and it is having an impact on games. Lets see what he can do with better linemates, more icetime and more opportunities overall 

 

 

 

 

 

He has also hit a couple posts and missed some really good chances that could have gone in. He could easily be above .5ppg. Seems a bit snake bitten right now.

But I'm not hating him. He is forechecking hard and forcing things. Petey could use that on his line right now.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I hate to say it... but we might want to drop Kuz further down the lineup. He really isn't showing much of anything this season. 

There are other guys that are working a lot harder and may produce better if given more opportunity.  Kuz is the likely guy to go down the lineup

Kuz either plays with Petey or he’s in the press box. Guys like Beau and Garland have the games to player lower in the lineup. 

[greenbean30]

Just now, Alflives said:

Kuz either plays with Petey or he’s in the press box. Guys like Beau and Garland have the games to player lower in the lineup. 

It might actually be time for a Kuz healthy scratch, and have Hogs on that line for a game. Though only once Suter is good to go.

[stawns]

16 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yeah it was quite a similar style. In my mind the team got sick of the GM moves and the lack of putting the right pieces together. They just got sick of having crap players in important positions and collectively butting their heads against the wall and the entire group gave up. There were also some leadership issues on the club as well from both Horvat and also veteran guys like Miller who needed to grow mentally.

 

I don't think the team was at the point of stumbling moves yet, and the ones he made failed bcause of injury..........that had the chance to be a very good team, with young guns and solid veterans like Beagle, Sutter, Roussel etc.  I think there was a dressing room split around those loyal to Green and those who didn't like his methods.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

It might actually be time for a Kuz healthy scratch, and have Hogs on that line for a game. Though only once Suter is good to go.

Tocchet will sit anyone who isn’t playing the right way. 

[Strawbone]

18 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Wonder where the little sparkplug is?

 

He might actually be banged up after that dirty hit last night. It's amazing the punishment he can take as a guy who's probably 40 pounds lighter than the average player.

[CanucksJay]

12 hours ago, Mordekai said:

Myers probably take that to stay in BC and also to be with part of a soon to be contending team

We need him but I wonder what would happen if an enticing offer came along. 

Say we traded Beau for a 5th or something and then the oils offered us a first for Myers with 5m retained so it only counts as 1m cap hit? Would we take it?  We would now have 5m in cap space and could potentially use the first to grab another player like Hronek? 

If this ever happened, I would ask Myers to sign the 2.5 x 2 extension or we'd have to trade him and let him decide his own fate. 

 

 

[Nucker67]

It looked like Kuzmenko was trying to play with more energy, checking, but I'm not sure he has it in him to have that aggressive, pitbull mentality. He's not a hitter. And he's kinda slow IMO. 

 

There was also one play in the O-zone where the Canucks were passing it around and he made this fancy blind-backpass that was intercepted and the Sharks were able to exit the zone. My first thought when seeing that was "Tocchet is not going to like that at all".

 

 

[JayDangles]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Kuz either plays with Petey or he’s in the press box. Guys like Beau and Garland have the games to player lower in the lineup. 

I think Kuz just needs space. He is creative but doesn't do well under pressure. If he moved down the lineup to play against some "weaker" opponents he might be able to find his scoring touch again.

I don't know what the answer is, but we know Petey's line is dying at 5 on 5 and something might need to change there

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Nucker67 said:

It looked like Kuzmenko was trying to play with more energy, checking, but I'm not sure he has it in him to have that aggressive, pitbull mentality. He's not a hitter. And he's kinda slow IMO. 

 

There was also one play in the O-zone where the Canucks were passing it around and he made this fancy blind-backpass that was intercepted and the Sharks were able to exit the zone. My first thought when seeing that was "Tocchet is not going to like that at all".

 

 

I saw that play too, and I saw what he was trying to do. If it had made it all the way across ice it would have been a highlight play. But he definitely whiffed on it. 

[CanucksJay]

18 minutes ago, greenbean30 said:

It might actually be time for a Kuz healthy scratch, and have Hogs on that line for a game. Though only once Suter is good to go.

 

When is Suter back? We are definitely a better team with him. 

Looking forward to a bottom 6 that consists of Suter, Bleuger, Lafferty, Joshua and whoever else (Garland, Hogz, Beau) 

 

Unfortunate for Kuzy. The guy is such a great personality and he started to play better until he got the puck to the face. That was one of his best games. I do feel like Hogz might jumpstart that line. But then I wonder, who'll jumpstart the 4th line? 

[JayDangles]

17 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Tocchet will sit anyone who isn’t playing the right way. 

Didn't he healthy scratch him late last year because he wasn't playing the right way in the defensive end? 

Scratching a guy for not playing the right way is justified. It's harder to scratch a guy who is doing the right things but for whatever reason just not performing. But, I do think some line mixing is in order.

[Nucker67]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I saw that play too, and I saw what he was trying to do. If it had made it all the way across ice it would have been a highlight play. But he definitely whiffed on it. 

High risk, but I'm okay with him trying stuff. In fact, I wish Tocchet would allow Kuz, AND ONLY KUZ, to play how he wants. He had so much success last year free-wheeling and being creative. 

[Rip The Mesh]

31 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I hate to say it... but we might want to drop Kuz further down the lineup. He really isn't showing much of anything this season. 

There are other guys that are working a lot harder and may produce better if given more opportunity.  Kuz is the likely guy to go down the lineup

I wouldn't touch the top two lines unless there was an injury. The stats and our position in the standings, point totals in the league and individually

[Rip The Mesh]

I think much of our success so far this year is have a real hands on coach!  

 

[Gawdzukes]

48 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

In what sense?

averages 13:30 TOI

53.3%oZS in all situations

52.2% CORSI

 

44%oZS at 5v5 and a 49.2% CORSI

He helps drive possession which is attributed to his 10 takeaways which is 2nd on the team, with far less icetime than Hughes, Petey and Miller.

 

Our goalies save % while he is on the ice is .982sv%, which leads the team.

 

He’s been on the ice for 13 goals for and 3 against in all situations.

 

19gp 2g 5a 7pts +8

 

He may not be producing at a .5+ rate, but hes damn close and he is getting limited ice time and no PP1 time and no favourable zone starts. He is however contributing in just about every single way possible and it is having an impact on games. Lets see what he can do with better linemates, more icetime and more opportunities overall 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think it's more of a case that unless he really pops and starts scoring at a high pace his play can't outweigh the negative value of his contract. He hasn't really been playing poorly or anything and actually has looked pretty decent lately, especially last night. It would be nice to re-acquire a third for him.