[PGT] Canucks vs Sharks - Nov 20, 2023

[CanucksJay]

14 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I have to disagree. I thought Friedman looked good and it kind of seems like we play a better game with him in the line-up as compared to Hirose and Juulsen. Not really a lot separating them but I thought we played a more basic game again yesterday after his return. He seems more in tune with the style RT wants to play, whether or not he's the better player.

 

Everything Juulsen does is slow. 

He processes the game slow, he skates slow and he handles the puck slow. 

 

To be honest, it's infuriating to watch the puck get dumped to his corner. 

 

I can see him turn and lumber toward the corner to retrieve the puck. 

 

As he's skating, he knows the forecheck is coming. He starts calculating how fast he can get to the puck before the forecheck comes but by the time he gets to the puck, he's still calculating... finally gets to the puck and thinks about whether to play it off the boards quickly or eat it. (other players already know what they are going to do with the puck at this point and are on their way to executing) 

 

Anyway, now with the forechecker fully engaged and on him, he now decides what he's going to do with it. 

 

He's only got 2 options in his playbook. 

 

He rings it off the boards but by the time this happens, someone is pinching at the point and keeps it in. 

 

The other option is he eats it and a board scrum ensues. 

 

It drives me crazy knowing other players would have already finished processing before getting to the puck, they skate quickly to it, and then they play the puck and we transition back. 

 

I keep telling myself he's an 8D trapped in a difficult role right now but jeez, I'd rather have someone else like Friedman. 

 

 

Edited November 22, 2023 by CanucksJay

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

12 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

When a guy like Tocchet tells you to jump....you tell him "how high!".  Willie D was more like Ned Flanders.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

Should we go after Bear?

[sashimi]

Was at the game. First game in a while. The vibe in Rogers is so much better than I can remember. Hasn't been like that since I was a kid. Wasn't even a great game but the fans were into it. Wow that was fun. Quinn Hughes is electric live. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Everything Juulsen does is slow. 

He processes the game slow, he skates slow and he handles the puck slow. 

 

To be honest, it's infuriating to watch the puck get dumped to his corner. 

 

I can see him turn and lumber toward the corner to retrieve the puck. 

 

As he's skating, he knows the forecheck is coming. He starts calculating how fast he can get to the puck before the forecheck comes but by the time he gets to the puck, he's still calculating... finally gets to the puck and thinks about whether to play it off the boards quickly or eat it. (other players already know what they are going to do with the puck at this point and are on their way to executing) 

 

Anyway, now with the forechecker fully engaged and on him, he now decides what he's going to do with it. 

 

He's only got 2 options in his playbook. 

 

He rings it off the boards but by the time this happens, someone is pinching at the point and keeps it in. 

 

The other option is he eats it and a board scrum ensues. 

 

It drives me crazy knowing other players would have already finished processing before getting to the puck, they skate quickly to it, and then they play the puck and we transition back. 

 

I keep telling myself he's an 8D trapped in a difficult role right now but jeez, I'd rather have someone else like Friedman. 

 

Juulsen 

 

 

Yup. Juulsson is a dough head. 

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

3 hours ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

Should we go after Bear?

Yes

[Ghostsof1915]

8 hours ago, stawns said:

Given that Oel is back to being a top 2-3 dman, was it really a bad trade?

Maybe much like Eriksson, he just wasn't the right fit here. He sure struggled here. Be it injuries, or just bad coaching.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

13 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

I have to disagree. I thought Friedman looked good and it kind of seems like we play a better game with him in the line-up as compared to Hirose and Juulsen. Not really a lot separating them but I thought we played a more basic game again yesterday after his return. He seems more in tune with the style RT wants to play, whether or not he's the better player.

Friedman had a solid game but I was very unhappy with how often he would shoot with zero screen. It kind of disrupted the offensive rhythm at times. However, one of those goes in and he looks like a genius.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Friedman had a solid game but I was very unhappy with how often he would shoot with zero screen. It kind of disrupted the offensive rhythm at times. However, one of those goes in and he looks like a genius.

With Friedman and Juulsson it’s their play without the puck that’s most important. These are two guys who can’t defend unless they have support from the forwards. 

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Maybe much like Eriksson, he just wasn't the right fit here. He sure struggled here. Be it injuries, or just bad coaching.

People keep saying that, but I'm not sure how they get to that conclusion.  If it's bad coaching, which obviously was a huge part of it, that's not on him.

[Chicken.]

Oops wrong thread lol

Edited November 22, 2023 by Chicken.

[stawns]

16 hours ago, JamesB said:

You are absolutely right about Juulsen. In the Edge data he appears to be slowest skater on the team and his pivots are not good and his edge work is not good, at least not compared to NHL level. (He looks fine in the AHL, but the pace in the AHL is slower.) I am sure he has tried to improve his skating but some guys just are not great skaters.

 

Obviously he needs to play conservatively and really focus on playing with structure -- being in the right place -- and on being aware of where his teammates are and making good first pass.  That takes focus but I think that is what the coaches are focusing on. With Soucy out we really need Juulsen to be able to hold his own against bottom 6 NHL forwards. And of course his physical play helps, as the Canucks are not exactly a tough team. 

 

I think he looks fine at the NHL as well.  I think people have unrealistic expectations for a #6-7 dman

[Ghostsof1915]

59 minutes ago, stawns said:

People keep saying that, but I'm not sure how they get to that conclusion.  If it's bad coaching, which obviously was a huge part of it, that's not on him.

Bottom line is we couldn't afford his cap hit. Especially with Petey coming up for a new contract. We certainly wouldn't have been able to sign the defensive changes we made. And we might have had to let Kuzmenko go to free up cap space. Would have been an interesting "what if scenario".

[stawns]

18 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Bottom line is we couldn't afford his cap hit. Especially with Petey coming up for a new contract. We certainly wouldn't have been able to sign the defensive changes we made. And we might have had to let Kuzmenko go to free up cap space. Would have been an interesting "what if scenario".

 

I'd argue the dead cap is far worse for a lot longer and the timing is terrible.  I dpon't have an issue with moving on from OEL, just tat they should have put it off for another year and let him boost his value

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I'd argue the dead cap is far worse for a lot longer and the timing is terrible.  I dpon't have an issue with moving on from OEL, just tat they should have put it off for another year and let him boost his value

Alvin probably knew the chances of OEL's value increasing under a coach like Tocchet would be pretty remote (OEL wilted under him in Arizona when OEL was actually a good player at the time).  Team is *WAY* better now under Tocchet (look at Miller today; sure he was putting up allstar points under Green but the guy also plays a FAR more complete game now (with consistancy), Boeser, etc.,) than would be under another coach (& OEL) even with the dead cap space.  Likely an significantly easier time re-signing Petey with this team than the team under Green as well.  

 

Benning knew how to draft/build a solid core but that was it.  You also need a good supporting cast as well as a legit head coach (look at the Oilers for example).  He (Benning) came at a time when the Canucks needed his skills.  But now they need someone else to take the team to the next level (and it sure looks like Alvin & Co. are that crew).

Edited November 22, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

No GDT thread yet?

[Mando27]

I really wish they would try splitting up Petey's line, they are not working at all right now.

[stawns]

32 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Alvin probably knew the chances of OEL's value increasing under a coach like Tocchet would be pretty remote (OEL wilted under him in Arizona when OEL was actually a good player at the time).  Team is *WAY* better now under Tocchet (look at Miller today; sure he was putting up allstar points under Green but the guy also plays a FAR more complete game now (with consistancy), Boeser, etc.,) than would be under another coach (& OEL) even with the dead cap space.  Likely an significantly easier time re-signing Petey with this team than the team under Green as well.  

 

Benning knew how to draft/build a solid core but that was it.  You also need a good supporting cast as well as a legit head coach (look at the Oilers for example).  He (Benning) came at a time when the Canucks needed his skills.  But now they need someone else to take the team to the next level (and it sure looks like Alvin & Co. are that crew).

We'll see how we feel when they're paying OEL $5m+ to play for Fla and they have to cover all the new contracts for the young guys.

 

Hanging onto OEL, even for a year, would have made a huge difference 

[Jaimito]

10 minutes ago, Mando27 said:

I really wish they would try splitting up Petey's line, they are not working at all right now.

 

Garland? 

 

Let the rumors begin. 

[Mando27]

Just now, Jaimito said:

 

Garland? 

 

Let the rumors begin. 

I think he was banged up and took the practice day off I believe.

[dannydog]

Might suck to lose Garly . He  drives that 3rd line . Playing some good hockey of late

[CanucksJay]

45 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

Alvin probably knew the chances of OEL's value increasing under a coach like Tocchet would be pretty remote (OEL wilted under him in Arizona when OEL was actually a good player at the time).  Team is *WAY* better now under Tocchet (look at Miller today; sure he was putting up allstar points under Green but the guy also plays a FAR more complete game now (with consistancy), Boeser, etc.,) than would be under another coach (& OEL) even with the dead cap space.  Likely an significantly easier time re-signing Petey with this team than the team under Green as well.  

 

Benning knew how to draft/build a solid core but that was it.  You also need a good supporting cast as well as a legit head coach (look at the Oilers for example).  He (Benning) came at a time when the Canucks needed his skills.  But now they need someone else to take the team to the next level (and it sure looks like Alvin & Co. are that crew).

 

I was thinking about this as well. 

This is the most complete and thorough management team we've ever had. 

Im sure they dissected OEL from every angle before buying him out. 

If they thought keeping him and bringing in a league minimum guy would produce better results than Soucy and Cole, I'm sure they would have done it. 

Cap had a lot to do with this move as I'm sure they could have retained and traded OEL but then we'd have a higher cap hit this year when we needed the space to sign 2 d-men. 

 

I think they saw that despite OEL still being a serviceable defensemen, our priority was to get TWO good d men on this roster rather than 1 OEL making 7. 26m and a league min guy making 775k for 8m combined... 

 

Cole and Soucy at a combined 6.25 is WAY better. 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

20 minutes ago, stawns said:

We'll see how we feel when they're paying OEL $5m+ to play for Fla and they have to cover all the new contracts for the young guys.

 

Hanging onto OEL, even for a year, would have made a huge difference 

We need to re-sign Petey.  IMHO, far greater stakes at hand to take a chance on that.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

I was thinking about this as well. 

This is the most complete and thorough management team we've ever had. 

Im sure they dissected OEL from every angle before buying him out. 

If they thought keeping him and bringing in a league minimum guy would produce better results than Soucy and Cole, I'm sure they would have done it. 

Cap had a lot to do with this move as I'm sure they could have retained and traded OEL but then we'd have a higher cap hit this year when we needed the space to sign 2 d-men. 

 

I think they saw that despite OEL still being a serviceable defensemen, our priority was to get TWO good d men on this roster rather than 1 OEL making 7. 26m and a league min guy making 775k for 8m combined... 

 

Cole and Soucy at a combined 6.25 is WAY better. 

 

 

Also, we're winning games not because our goaltending (as solid as its been) hasn't been "stealing victories".  The games we have won this season have largely been as a result of the whole team largely playing well.  Yes, Demko has the abilitie to win a game by himself; but for the most part, we haven't needed that this season.  This is why I feel so optimistic about the rest of the season.  Wait until Demko is at his Vezina level play!

 

Injuries are the *only* concern I have.

Edited November 22, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Gawdzukes]

9 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Everything Juulsen does is slow. 

He processes the game slow, he skates slow and he handles the puck slow. 

 

To be honest, it's infuriating to watch the puck get dumped to his corner. 

 

I can see him turn and lumber toward the corner to retrieve the puck. 

 

As he's skating, he knows the forecheck is coming. He starts calculating how fast he can get to the puck before the forecheck comes but by the time he gets to the puck, he's still calculating... finally gets to the puck and thinks about whether to play it off the boards quickly or eat it. (other players already know what they are going to do with the puck at this point and are on their way to executing) 

 

Anyway, now with the forechecker fully engaged and on him, he now decides what he's going to do with it. 

 

He's only got 2 options in his playbook. 

 

He rings it off the boards but by the time this happens, someone is pinching at the point and keeps it in. 

 

The other option is he eats it and a board scrum ensues. 

 

It drives me crazy knowing other players would have already finished processing before getting to the puck, they skate quickly to it, and then they play the puck and we transition back. 

 

I keep telling myself he's an 8D trapped in a difficult role right now but jeez, I'd rather have someone else like Friedman. 

 

 

 

 

lol, he needs to go to the Myers school for kids who don't know how to turn well under pressure

 

You've just described Myers to a T up until his last handful of games ... my favorite part is that after you have all the slow calculations going on there is like an out of memory fault or an xbox controller unplugged moment and they just slowly backhand it down the side boards to a Stamkos, Hintz, or McDavid so they can easily receive and walk in the slot for an uncontested high danger shot from the slot.

 

Absolutely maddening ... lol with you 100% 

Edited November 22, 2023 by Gawdzukes