[PGT] Canucks vs Sharks - Nov 20, 2023

[Gawdzukes]

 

1 hour ago, spook007 said:

 

While this is true, how long is a string? They could have waited to the end of his contract, and have had zero retention, but when are they going to start the push. Which player would we get rid of to cover his $7.2M... ? 

 

The team was losing, and losing and losing.... Petey's contract is coming up. Are we really willing to wait and hope is happy to continue losing? Miller gets older each year, Demko and Hughes 1 year closer to FA... 

 

I am sure all the pros and cons were weighted up against one another, and with heavy hearts accepted, that despite the massive cap penalty coming up, it was still better, than dragging their heels and continue with OELs Cap hit... In 2 years we'll know, if it was the right decision, when they have to find players to stay competitive with the recapture penalty...

 

I am just delighted, that we at present have a team that is competitive.

 

Yeah we were in a rock and a hard place. Really hard to fault this management group one way or another ... that trade crippled this franchise. It would have been hard to just accept sucking for the next 4 years so they pulled the trigger. So far so good but those two years of $4.75 cap hit is a killer too. Stops us from signing a higher end replacement with that $ as we've got to be cognizant of that hit until 2027/2028. It's going to be incredibly tricky to be competitive during those two years. It will be very interesting to see how they navigate that. Really hoping Willander makes some big strides I guess.

 

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

The thing with Myers was different though. Myers has speed and is actually a really good skater for his size. Myers problem was that he felt like he should be an offensive d man and got himself into trouble by overhandling the puck and not making quick easy plays. 

He'll get to the puck fast and retrieve it quickly but then he'll try to make a play with it and make a bone headed pass. 

He's much improved now because he gets to the puck quickly and moves it out without trying to do too much with it. I bet Foote has had a big influence on that. 

Myers for his own sake should re-sign 3m x 2 and just play a safe game without any expectations on him. He'll deliver if that's the case. 

 

Myers is quick for his size speed wise but he struggles with deciding what to do with the puck when he gets there so the result is the same as Juulsen. His problem is he thinks he's Bobby Orr and he's just going to wheel up the ice before realizing 90% of the time that his huge body turns like an oil tanker.

 

I've seen you mention re-signing Myers several times and I couldn't disagree more on that one. Please move on we've suffered enough. It would be a big mistake from management but I don't think they are that dumb, surely there are better defenders to choose from than Tyler Myers.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

In his "defense" (pun intended heh), he did look better against the Sharks.

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(though it was the Sharks _

He did

Im not just a blind hater lol. 

I saw him turn it over once early in the game after taking too long to move the puck but he settled in and had a really nice game after including a key block. 

Im just worried what he'll look like against a fast team like tonight. 

If he looks good again tonight, maybe we can hold off until Soucy comes back and add another D at the deadline or when Bear is ready

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

I've seen you mention re-signing Myers several times and I couldn't disagree more on that one. Please move on we've suffered enough. It would be a big mistake from management but I don't think they are that dumb, surely there are better defenders to choose from than Tyler Myers.

 

Everything has a price. If the price is low enough, Myers is worth it. You'd be crazy not to take him for 2.5-3m especially with the way RT has turned him around. RT doesn't give out unnecessary compliments but he keeps pointing at Myers and talks about how well he is playing. If he just accepts his role and plays safe boring hockey, he'd be great in a rotation with guys like Soucy and Cole. They're all 3m ish guys... 

[Mordekai]

anyone know how Jett Woo or Johansson are playing in the AHL? I can't imagine Juulsen to be that much better the two.

[CanucksJay]

13 minutes ago, Joe King said:

It will suck to lose him. But P.A. and company have been pretty good in getting value back. And filling a position we may be lacking in.

 

If they get rid of Beau and Garland, that's 9m... Pretty sure when Suter comes back, a bottom 6 of

 

Hogz Suter Joshua

Karlsson Bleuger Lafferty 

 

Would suffice until we use that 9m to upgrade D and a forward position.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

3 minutes ago, Mordekai said:

anyone know how Jett Woo or Johansson are playing in the AHL? I can't imagine Juulsen to be that much better the two.

That says alot of the farm system Alvin inherited.  Though I think all hope is not lost with Woo though the clock is ticking on him.

[Outsiders]

1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

 

If they get rid of Beau and Garland, that's 9m... Pretty sure when Suter comes back, a bottom 6 of

 

Hogz Suter Joshua

Karlsson Bleuger Lafferty 

 

Would suffice until we use that 9m to upgrade D and a forward position.

 

 

Yes if we somehow allocate that 9M to one top 6 fwd and a top 4 D man that would be great. 

 

I'd be more than comfortable running a bottom 6 of 

 

PDG-Suter-Garland

Joshua-Bluegar-Lafferty

 

[CanucksJay]

I love kuzy but one thing I'm noticing is that he doesn't fit the character of the team in how RT wants everyone to play. 

 

Every one can move up and down except kuzy. 

Mik can play 3rd line wing if we need him too if we are trying to crate some spark by promoting Garland and swapping him out with Mik. 

Same for PDG who can be 4th line grinder if we elevate Hogz to Miller's wing. 

 

Even Boeser can move to bottom 6 and elevate their play if he's making room for someone to jumpstart 2nd line. 

 

Only kuzy is the one that would be sitting on the bench if he doesn't have a role in the top 6. This means he needs to start performing as he is too one dimensional. I love the guy so I'm rooting for him. If Boeser can learn how to play the 2 way game, I have faith Kuz can as well. I really hope he's figuring it out. 

 

[CanucksJay]

5 minutes ago, Outsiders said:

 

 

Yes if we somehow allocate that 9M to one top 6 fwd and a top 4 D man that would be great. 

 

I'd be more than comfortable running a bottom 6 of 

 

PDG-Suter-Garland

Joshua-Bluegar-Lafferty

 

 

I see Hogz prob got promoted to line 2 on your suggested lineup. I don't mind that at all. I think Hogz has been playing really well. 

Edit..nvm you said trade for a top 6...didnwe use Hogz as bait? I hope not

 

Joshua and Garland have seen great chemistry though. I feel like Garland plays better knowing that there's a big guy on his line. 

 

 

I honestly don't recall when we used to have a bottom 6 that was buzzing in the opposition zone like this. 

This seems better than the Lapierre, Higgins years... 

Edited November 22, 2023 by CanucksJay

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, CanucksJay said:

 

Everything has a price. If the price is low enough, Myers is worth it. You'd be crazy not to take him for 2.5-3m especially with the way RT has turned him around. RT doesn't give out unnecessary compliments but he keeps pointing at Myers and talks about how well he is playing. If he just accepts his role and plays safe boring hockey, he'd be great in a rotation with guys like Soucy and Cole. They're all 3m ish guys... 

 

For me it's too big of a chance, especially if he wants any term. If I can allocate $ to two defenceman I don't want to be banking on Myers to sustain anything near the "passable" game he is giving us right now. Keep in mind it's a contract season and he's probably playing better than he will moving forward.

 

It also feels like it would be a mistake to turn around and re-sign a player whose contract we've (CFF) been desperately trying to trade for the last 3 years. Just when I thought I was out they pulled me back into cap hell again. (Scarface lol). Even though he's played better he is still making some pretty dumb plays and giving up bad goals. It's kind of like if he only makes one or two huge gaffs a game we celebrate now.

 

Maybe it's just me but I think you'd be crazy to sign him again, even at $3 m. That sounds like a Benning move. Decent price but really are you playing the stock market collecting decent pieces or trying to build a hockey team? Personally I'd be trying to make more meaningful change on the RD as part of the movement forward.

 

I think any money should be spent upgrading the D, not keeping it the same. Time to turn the corner. Myers has been holding us back from improving for years now.

Edited November 22, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Hairy Kneel]

I don't mind Myer's at a lesser price as a bottom pairing  dman. Lesser minutes lesser responsibility,  I trust his coaches to keep him on track. 

(also try a shorter stick to improve his stick handling)

2.5-3M

[Honky Cat]

1 hour ago, Jaimito said:

 

Still some savings, and the cap will go up too.  The management have weighed the pro and cons.  I like the move.  He was toxic to the culture.  Nice guy by all accounts.  But he's not a leader for this group of players.  Good riddance. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm glad that we moved on from OEL, but toxic to the culture?

 

He's always been a popular teammate.

 

Not his fault we traded for an anchor contract.

[Eddie]

45 minutes ago, Mordekai said:

anyone know how Jett Woo or Johansson are playing in the AHL? I can't imagine Juulsen to be that much better the two.

On all my watchings they look good with flaws - which is about par for the course with AHL defencemen. 

 

Johansson still isn't strong enough on the puck and in board battles but has some flashes of great skill - i don't think he will make it to the NHL personally, as his upside doesn't overcome his downsides. 

 

Woo - Very much reminds me of Juulsen actually, i think he's a bit better skater and offensively, but prone to huge lapses in judgment at times that leave massive holes open that he doesn't seem able to stamp out of his game, which likely means that Toch and his time are never gonna trust him. I think there's still an outside chance he can make it, as he has all the tools, but the brain is still week.

[CanucksJay]

34 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

For me it's too big of a chance, especially if he wants any term. If I can allocate $ to two defenceman I don't want to be banking on Myers to sustain anything near the "passable" game he is giving us right now. Keep in mind it's a contract season and he's probably playing better than he will moving forward.

 

It also feels like it would be a mistake to turn around and re-sign a player whose contract we've (CFF) been desperately trying to trade for the last 3 years. Just when I thought I was out they pulled me back into cap hell again. (Scarface lol). Even though he's played better he is still making some pretty dumb plays and giving up bad goals. It's kind of like if he only makes one or two huge gaffs a game we celebrate now.

 

Maybe it's just me but I think you'd be crazy to sign him again, even at $3 m. That sounds like a Benning move. Decent price but really are you playing the stock market collecting decent pieces or trying to build a hockey team? Personally I'd be trying to make more meaningful change on the RD as part of the movement forward.

 

I think any money should be spent upgrading the D, not keeping it the same.Time to turn the corner. Myers has been holding us back from improving for years now.

 

18 minutes ago, Hairy Kneel said:

I don't mind Myer's at a lesser price as a bottom pairing  dman. Lesser minutes lesser responsibility,  I trust his coaches to keep him on track. 

(also try a shorter stick to improve his stick handling)

2.5-3M

 

at this point, the management team has gained a long leash from us fans. 

If they deem Myers is worth 2.5-3 and sign him, great. If they deem that they'd rather spend 3m on another Cole or Soucy and let Myers go, I'm good with that too. 

We just need reliability and  quiet play from our 3rd pairing. 

The main thing is, if Myers and Soucy start playing well as a duo and becomes a solid pairing, why risk disrupting the chemistry and bringing in a new guy that may or may not perform as good as Myers.  That would be an unnecessary risk unless management knows that it is a solid upgrade (like the Hronek trade that was highly debated) 

 

I'll trust management to make the right evaluation. 

 

 

[Gawdzukes]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

 

 

at this point, the management team has gained a long leash from us fans. 

If they deem Myers is worth 2.5-3 and sign him, great. If they deem that they'd rather spend 3m on another Cole or Soucy and let Myers go, I'm good with that too. 

We just need reliability and  quiet play from our 3rd pairing. 

The main thing is, if Myers and Soucy start playing well as a duo and becomes a solid pairing, why risk disrupting the chemistry and bringing in a new guy that may or may not perform as good as Myers.  That would be an unnecessary risk unless management knows that it is a solid upgrade (like the Hronek trade that was highly debated) 

 

I'll trust management to make the right evaluation. 

 

 

 

Signing Myers feels like giving up on getting better to me

 

Having said that I agree they have earned the leash so:

 

I will trust management as well

[CanucksJay]

53 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Signing Myers feels like giving up on getting better to me

 

Having said that I agree they have earned the leash so:

 

I will trust management as well

 

The team can still get better with Myers on 3rd pairing if we improve our top 4D and add another forward? 

 

I guess the question is can we find a better dman than Myers @ 2.5m if that's what he's willing to sign for? 

[Hairy Kneel]

Nothing on the farm improves the bottom pairing.  We're waiting for the next class of defenseman, Willander, Jurmo etc.

I think Myer's would be a good placeholder. 

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, Hairy Kneel said:

Nothing on the farm improves the bottom pairing.  We're waiting for the next class of defenseman, Willander, Jurmo etc.

I think Myer's would be a good placeholder. 

And D Petterson

 

Yes we have to also remember Cole only signed 1 year and is a UFA this summer. 

That means if we let Myers go, we are going to next season with Hughes Hronek (rfa) and Soucy. Management would need to sign Myers and Cole replacements as well as an additional defender. 

 

That's a lot of change to the blue line once again. 

[cuporbust]

On 11/20/2023 at 11:25 PM, theochar said:

 

 

Yes me too. Not surprising really

[conquestofbaguettes]

12 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

Pearson, Dickinson, OEL, Garland, Myers, Boeser and not having a plan to fill the RD position have put us in cap hell. He should have been cautious due to Covid but signed players like Pearson, Garland, and Dickinson anyway. Always spending to the cap with a crap team was terribly short-sighted. After Covid hit it was especially dumb.

 

Not really. Had they known a pandemic flat cap was coming all these years they simply wouldn't've signed those contacts at those amounts in the first place. (Or maybe at all.) And this goes for GM around the entire league and their contracts and cap situations the same way.

 

Hell, even Jim Rutherford mentioned this at a press conference this year,  stating he would have done the same thing. Signing guys at certain prices thinking the cap was going to keep going up. To blame Benning, (or any other GM for that matter) is essentially to blame them for not having crystal balls and of which would be "especially dumb" to do.

[Gawdzukes]

9 hours ago, conquestofbaguettes said:

 

Not really. Had they known a pandemic flat cap was coming all these years they simply wouldn't've signed those contacts at those amounts in the first place. (Or maybe at all.) And this goes for GM around the entire league and their contracts and cap situations the same way.

 

Hell, even Jim Rutherford mentioned this at a press conference this year,  stating he would have done the same thing. Signing guys at certain prices thinking the cap was going to keep going up. To blame Benning, (or any other GM for that matter) is essentially to blame them for not having crystal balls and of which would be "especially dumb" to do.

 

Actually yes. I knew the flat cap coming before they signed those guys and I'am just a fan on a website. It was dumb. Pearson was the beginning of the stupidity.

 

That was a general statement with players like Myers and I don't think that applied to Pearson, whom Rutherford has now traded 3 times.

Edited November 23, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[conquestofbaguettes]

10 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Actually yes. I knew the flat cap coming before they signed those guys and I'am just a fan on a website. It was dumb. Pearson was the beginning of the stupidity.

 

That was a general statement with players like Myers and I don't think that applied to Pearson, whom Rutherford has now traded 3 times.

 

And that means every GM around the league that signed contracts at that time projecting the cap would go up are equally as dumb... including JR who said at a semi-recent press conference he would have done the same thing. ? Let's be fair here. They don't have crystal balls. The business is still trying to move forward but what do you have to go on?  Even the fucking countries protocols around the virus changed consistently. So how could you reasonably expect....

 

Secondly, I was mostly talking about contracts signed before the pandemic, like Tyler Myers.   That 6×6 wouldn't have happened in the first place.

 

Think butterfly effect