[PGT] Canucks @ Avalanche Nov 22 2023

[cusm]

It's completely beyond me why I have to base my opinion on that of others, especially in this shithole x or anywhere else.

If I check my stick in someone's face, I shut my face and sit on the bench. Period.

[Mrwipeout]

well after this meetin and the others vs rangers, panthers.....id say its safe to say that we CAN compete with them. we are good this year. 

 

Miller line is pretty constant and a revived brock and miller continuing his production they will be great this season.

 

my main issue right now is our first line. Our first line is not producing which ofc is a factor.....Kuzmenkov has lost his groove, not many goals from him which is his thing so to say. u can tell hes got not as much confidence. EP40 has also ended up in a slump and they are gonna have to simlify and work twice as hard to get out of it....

 

for now id say theres ofc no panic....we have had a heck of an amazing start to the season but we are not even a quarter through a long season. everyone will have ups and downs and its more of a challenge to have shorter slumps and get back to the level that EP40 and Kuz can be at. imo they were not terrible...but they are far from the level we expect them to be. 

 

 

[Miss Korea]

1 minute ago, cusm said:

It's completely beyond me why I have to base my opinion on that of others, especially in this shithole x or anywhere else.

If I check my stick in someone's face, I shut my face and sit on the bench. Period.

 

But he didn't sit.  He got tossed.

 

You're entitled to your opinion and so is everyone else.  And I think your opinion/outrage doesn't make sense considering we got the best possible outcome out of it.

[Miss Korea]

What a mess this is to look at:

 

[CanucksJay]

9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol coming in here watching the EP bashing just shows how toxic this fan base is.. you want to know why EP line is struggling 5v5? coz the 2 defenceman he plays with majority of the time 5v5 creates 0 space can't push tempo can't get the puck up to the forwards..

 

JT miller spent 160 mins with QH and Hronek compared to EP only spending 80mins with QH and Hronek.. easy to do well 5v5 when your defenceman is creating so much space for you on offence. guess what.. Miller's line looks terrible 5v5 offensively whenever they are not playing with QH and Hronek either which is rare... EP can dominate with inferior defenceman when the other teams are bad which is majority of the teams we played this year.. and when the tougher team shows up.. he can't do it by himself without the 2 defenceman.. it's literally playing 3v5 right now

Thanks for your insight 

I wonder what would happen if RT flipped the script to get Petey going and told him he's going to be the 1A line and will go head to head with the opposition best while having Hughes and Hronek as their D. 

Can Petey handle it? I would like to see

[Curmudgeon]

 

First time I have seen this clip. Suspension-worthy.

[cusm]

6 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

But he didn't sit.  He got tossed.

 

I haven't said a word about the penalty or its severity. The constant reference to it in connection with my posts is irritating.

Manson's behavior is grotesque.

And not worth another post from me now.

[Ladyluck]

Petey needs to show up vs the best teams and be an X factor during these tough matchups. Definitely not a 12mil player regardless of the points

[J-23]

Makar and Hughes are going to lead the league in points this year.

 

1. Hughes

2. Makar

[Kragar]

42 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

He is getting scorn from literally nowhere but here.  All over X people are laughing about it.  All over reddit people are laughing about it.  It's funny.

 

As for Manson's hit, I watched it again.  He isn't even looking at Boeser when he retaliates.  This is just another case of two guys cross-checking each other.  Since one was worse and drew blood, you just give the extra two to that guy.  Not 5 and a misconduct.  

 

Look at the video one more time.  If I crosscheck you and you hit me back without looking, under no circumstances would I think you deserve a 5 and a game for that.

I've gone back to it, and watched it a few times.  FWIW, I don't recall John n Ray suggesting it wasn't deserved, but that may have been at a point I was focusing on video.  Unfortunately, I can only stream it, and I don't get any decent frame by frame when streaming so had to watch it a lot to try to see Manson better.

 

It doesn't matter whether he is looking at him or not (just like accidental high sticks), although I would argue that Boeser was still easily in Manson's field of vision.  I see what you are talking about, but don't think it's enough of a factor.

 

Manson's acting is funny in its delivery, just not appropriate. It's not like Boeser threw his head back drastically, like you see on so many high-stick plays. Manson is just trying to blame Boeser for it the call.  Fine to try, but unwarranted in this case.

 

Thanks for the discussion and the added perspective. I gotta hit the sack... big day tomorrow.

[Jaimito]

 

[luckylager]

31 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

What a mess this is to look at:

 

 

Crazy how Myers always looks like this after road games.

It's almost like teams key in on him eh

[wai_lai416]

38 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Thanks for your insight 

I wonder what would happen if RT flipped the script to get Petey going and told him he's going to be the 1A line and will go head to head with the opposition best while having Hughes and Hronek as their D. 

Can Petey handle it? I would like to see

EP have proven he's one of the best defensive forward in the game last year i see no issues with him handling the top players. he's out mostly against other teams shutdown line.. it's hard to generate anything if your defenceman ain't capable of creating space.. i mean at worse Miller can still play against other teams top player while having 2 defenceman less offensive but more defensive like cole... ideally hughes and hronek would be on 2 seperate pair.. but our defence is too inept for that to happen.. so you have 1 really good offensive defenceman pairing both capable of creating space.. and then 2 pairing that can't create and kinda chaos in their own zone.. it further highlights the need of a top 4 defenceman whether it's LD or RD ideally someone similar to hronek that can create space.. not necessary a QH type super offensive/agressive.. since we have cole already that can cover the defensive side of things

[J-23]

1 hour ago, Miss Korea said:

What more does Garland need to do to get more ice time?  Every shift where he had the puck he created some excellent scoring chances.  Literally every pass to the slot turned into a shot.  But those shots came from grinders like Joshua and Blueger.  There was another play where a defender cleared the puck and Garly caught it mid-air before setting up another attack.

 

Give him and Höglander some goddamn shifts.  Not Anthony Beauvillier...

I thought all 3 players were good tonight. 
 

The Canucks are a 1st line winger and another RHD away from competing with these top teams.

 

For now though, need to see Hoglander with Pettersson or Miller at least.

[LillStrimma]

2 hours ago, CanucksJay said:

Thanks for your insight 

I wonder what would happen if RT flipped the script to get Petey going and told him he's going to be the 1A line and will go head to head with the opposition best while having Hughes and Hronek as their D. 

Can Petey handle it? I would like to see

Well, if Petey should be a C1 he must.

The only way to learn a trade is to work with the best. 

1 hour ago, J-23 said:

I thought all 3 players were good tonight. 
 

The Canucks are a 1st line winger and another RHD away from competing with these top teams.

 

For now though, need to see Hoglander with Pettersson or Miller at least.

Lafferty Petey  Hogz

Boeser   Miller   PDG

Kuz.      Joshua Mik

Beau.    Blueger.Garland

 

I would like to mess around a bit like the good old days when Petey played with anybody.

Now we have so many good players so we can do that on purpose.

Reward Lafferty as he is almost a 0,5ppg player now so put him and Hogz with Petey.

That means we got three, almost fourlines that is lethal.

 

 

[Canuckleheads Fan]

3 hours ago, Mrwipeout said:

well after this meetin and the others vs rangers, panthers.....id say its safe to say that we CAN compete with them. we are good this year. 

 

Miller line is pretty constant and a revived brock and miller continuing his production they will be great this season.

 

my main issue right now is our first line. Our first line is not producing which ofc is a factor.....Kuzmenkov has lost his groove, not many goals from him which is his thing so to say. u can tell hes got not as much confidence. EP40 has also ended up in a slump and they are gonna have to simlify and work twice as hard to get out of it....

 

for now id say theres ofc no panic....we have had a heck of an amazing start to the season but we are not even a quarter through a long season. everyone will have ups and downs and its more of a challenge to have shorter slumps and get back to the level that EP40 and Kuz can be at. imo, they were not terrible...but they are far from the level we expect them to be. 

 

 

Last year was something of an aberration for Kuzzy, he was never a big scorer in his career before last season. In the KHL, which is consistent with the AHL, he scored like a middle six winger. He was bound to regress and he has. The new mobile PP works against him, last year he was a net front presence, and a lot of his PP goals were tip ins and cleaning up the trash. He does not have a great shot, and seems to be more of a playmaker with this new set.

[AussieCanuckinUK]

a disturbing trend is starting to evolve here.....still not enough secondary scoring...and defensive lapses and taking bad penalties...sigh...sounding like the Nucks of old...but they aren't...well at least I hope they are different....Cmon Toccy...gotta nip some of the  bad habits...especially with the kraken rematch....and FFS ..stop it with the 5 goals given up!!! 

[IBatch]

3 hours ago, Kragar said:

I've gone back to it, and watched it a few times.  FWIW, I don't recall John n Ray suggesting it wasn't deserved, but that may have been at a point I was focusing on video.  Unfortunately, I can only stream it, and I don't get any decent frame by frame when streaming so had to watch it a lot to try to see Manson better.

 

It doesn't matter whether he is looking at him or not (just like accidental high sticks), although I would argue that Boeser was still easily in Manson's field of vision.  I see what you are talking about, but don't think it's enough of a factor.

 

Manson's acting is funny in its delivery, just not appropriate. It's not like Boeser threw his head back drastically, like you see on so many high-stick plays. Manson is just trying to blame Boeser for it the call.  Fine to try, but unwarranted in this case.

 

Thanks for the discussion and the added perspective. I gotta hit the sack... big day tomorrow.

If you watch some different feeds, they call the ejection "a joke", "Manson barely lifts his stick and Boeser walks right into it"   "What?!'"  "Wasn't even looking and put his stick up to protect himself"  ... It was a lucky break for the Canucks.   If it was Myers or Soucy or Juulsen instead and say Rantanen challenging for net territory,  we'd be pretty furious about the call.    It should have been a double minor,  it's not like he tried to take Brocks head off or anything, Garland took a lot worse the previous game.     Manson's Dad was one mean SOB, two time all-star and one of the better fighters,   Manson does play the game on the edge so maybe he gave him a deliberate cross check, the gate was too much though.   

Edited November 23, 2023 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

We weren’t going to be a cup contender this year with any plan other than Demko gets hot. 
We started great, hit a really tough part of the season and injuries started piling up but still are hanging around 500 in that stretch. 
This is better than expected and very encouraging. 
We have lost very few games that we should win. 
Tocchet is trying to get them to develop professionalism more than anything. In the NHL professionalism brings a consistency of effort night in night out. Ours has improved dramatically but still has a way to go. 
Huge steps forward so far but still at least one big hole on the D and some imbalance in the forward group. 
Lots of work to do by management, coaching and especially the players but heading in right direction. 

[IBatch]

As for the game.   Could have gone either way, refs disturbed the flow (not unusual there).   Not a morale victory.    EPs line needs to get some jam, if they were on flip the score.   

 

    Injuries now are showing exactly what our weakness is, lack of legit top four D's, or at least more quality proven NHL vets.   The forwards would be producing  better, if they had a two-way second pairing to play with them.  QHs and Hronek will have to play close to have of these games, while waiting for guys to get better, or Allvin to make the trade(s), we need.    A few years back it was Dermott, but he came in late.    Curiously, my brother was right, by trading Schenn and not re-signing him, we will need to now use at least a 3rd rounder to bring someone in to plug that hole.    Cole and Schenn would be a nasty tough defensive pairing, that's too bad.  

 

EP needs a boost too, acquiring a better NHL D, that can pass him the puck would be nice.   Maybe Tochett can start playing QHs and Hronek a little differently, split the time between our top two lines.   Not sure.    
 

The season could pivot fast if more injuries to our blue line keep happening.   It's bad luck, that our top two call-up depth guys, Brisbois and Wolanin are both out.    Irwin likely draws in soon. 

[IBatch]

24 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

We weren’t going to be a cup contender this year with any plan other than Demko gets hot. 
We started great, hit a really tough part of the season and injuries started piling up but still are hanging around 500 in that stretch. 
This is better than expected and very encouraging. 
We have lost very few games that we should win. 
Tocchet is trying to get them to develop professionalism more than anything. In the NHL professionalism brings a consistency of effort night in night out. Ours has improved dramatically but still has a way to go. 
Huge steps forward so far but still at least one big hole on the D and some imbalance in the forward group. 
Lots of work to do by management, coaching and especially the players but heading in right direction. 

Think we are close.   Missing 3 things.   And we don't need Demko to be hot, can't re-call a game he's stolen for us yet (this season) , all we need is for him to be solid and consistent.  

 

One area this team has drastically improved since Bruce's time with us, is shots against and high danger chances.    There isn't many games, all season, that we haven't had more high danger shots then our opponents.   Thad's a drastic difference from the Green era (that roster stunk too), and don't have to rely on goaltending every single night.  

 

Those 3 things, one more rock solid defenseman, a two-way beast.  Willie Mitchell type would be nice.    That's going to cost us, either through a trade, or free agency.   There are teams out there, that will decide to pull the plug.   CLB and CAL low lying fruit.  

 

Second one is a Jeannot type.   This team needs someone to keep things honest come playoff time (and think we do make the playoffs).   That's a key ingredient, can see why TB provided their team this, they miss Marroon.   Small skilled team.   QHs is the crown jewel, and our team needs someone who the other team knows, is willing to take an instigator penalty.

 

Third is a legit 3C.   Strength down the middle wins cups.    A guy who can move up as needed,  and not hurt us.   Either that or yet another top four D and focus on that.    
 

Thats 3 guys.   And about all we can hope for.   Cap makes it awfully hard to get the full meal deal like TB and Vegas have managed.    Canucks are that close right now, from going from the group of teams that can win at any given night, to a dominant contender.    Hronek.   Made a huge difference.   Soucy also made a difference.    Agree the team is on the right path, but it can't afford to wait too long either.      

Edited November 23, 2023 by IBatch

[DrJockitch]

19 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Think we are close.   Missing 3 things.   And we don't need Demko to be hot, can't re-call a game he's stolen for us yet (this season) , all we need is for him to be solid and consistent.  

 

One area this team has drastically improved since Bruce's time with us, is shots against and high danger chances.    There isn't many games, all season, that we haven't had more high danger shots then our opponents.   Thad's a drastic difference from the Green era (that roster stunk too), and don't have to rely on goaltending every single night.  

 

Those 3 things, one more rock solid defenseman, a two-way beast.  Willie Mitchell type would be nice.    That's going to cost us, either through a trade, or free agency.   There are teams out there, that will decide to pull the plug.   CLB and CAL low lying fruit.  

 

Second one is a Jeannot type.   This team needs someone to keep things honest come playoff time (and think we do make the playoffs).   That's a key ingredient, can see why TB provided their team this, they miss Marroon.   Small skilled team.   QHs is the crown jewel, and our team needs someone who the other team knows, is willing to take an instigator penalty.

 

Third is a legit 3C.   Strength down the middle wins cups.    A guy who can move up as needed,  and not hurt us.   Either that or yet another top four D and focus on that.    
 

Thats 3 guys.   And about all we can hope for.   Cap makes it awfully hard to get the full meal deal like TB and Vegas have managed.    Canucks are that close right now, from going from the group of teams that can win at any given night, to a dominant contender.    Hronek.   Made a huge difference.   Soucy also made a difference.    Agree the team is on the right path, but it can't afford to wait too long either.      

Hopefully we are developing one of those in Podz. 
‘Suter has been good in that 3 spot but would kind of like to shift him to wing if the third hadn’t looked so good with Joshua and Garland. 
Blueger can move up where needed to 3rd though kneecaps the offence from that line. 
Still that 2nd pairing right D is a massive hole that I am betting another first will go out to fix if/when a decent one becomes available. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by DrJockitch

[DownUndaCanuck]

Of course the game's been analysed to death but to be honest the Makar goal sums it up - star vs star and theirs won. MacKinnon was pretty tightly checked to be fair and Petey did just about nothing, Quinn looked decent and Miller was incredible for us, and the two goalies were basically a wash, but that one play decides the game. Pretty tight battles across the board everywhere.

 

5-2 obviously isn't indicative of how close the game was, there were some great turning points everywhere and when it was tied I thought we pressed well, but started the 3rd really badly. Their GWG came out of nowhere, a bit like a playoff goal with a good battle in front of the net. We pushed a bit after but that was a great smart play by Makar to beat two of our best players in Miller and Demko so fair play to him. Quinn makes some incredible plays from the blueline but nothing that explosive. It's a pretty stupid, risky play by Makar - a defenceman jumping up and pinching the point, and when it doesn't work you need good low-down coverage by your forwards, but when it does work wow, it ends the game.

 

We're close to playing with the big boys but as has been said before, we're not there yet. Our defence needs an extra top-4 guy and that was the case in the off-season as well despite Cole and Soucy's additions. Something's wrong with Petey and we need to fix it, whether it's his wrist bothering him or linemates. Those are two big holes on the team which are costing us right now. Bright spots are still Hughes, our secondary scoring (in particular Hoglander) and Demko is sometimes good, sometimes showing signs of weaknesses.

 

We can't expect 5 guys to just win us every game, we need some help and some depth, whether it's via trade or from within.

 

For me for next game, I say we lineup like this:

 

Hoglander - Pettersson - Boeser

(grinder - playmaker - shooter)

 

Mikheyev - Miller - Kuzmenko

 

Garland - Blueger - Beauvillier

 

Joshua - Lafferty - PDG

 

 

Hughes - AHLer (Juulsen, McWard, Woo)

Cole - Hronek (shutdown pairing)

AHLer (Wolanin, Hirose) - Myers

[Mikeyman109]

That could have been a good game except for the parade of penalties in the second. It really ruined what was a good game. Some thoughts watching the game.

1 Demko just looks slightly off. not horrible by any means but just not stellar. I wonder if there's a nagging injury there.

2 Petey the same thing. Wow no one timers, no slap shots, no power behind anything hes doing. Hes not setting himself up for a 10+ payday but if hes hurt you cant really argue with being right up there in scoring. we just need premier Petey to be ultra competitive.

3 Miller with the give away at the Avs blue line. He will want that one back. Not the best play he made all year. He has been great so far so i wont crap all over him for it. He scored the 2-2 goal and was on the back check a couple times to stop a threat. hes been a stud all year but really cant make those bad plays.

4 Two guys we are definitely missing are Suter and Soucy. Wow the back end is back to being a tire fire. With Suter missing that third line isnt the same.

5 They hung with the Avs and I would go as far as to say the dominated the second period without getting rewarded. The third period the Avs took over. Im not sure what happened on the first shift of the third when Mik had the puck bounce to the slot but no one moved towards the puck and the Avs player had a walk in on Demmer. He didnt score but it seemed to rattle the Canucks and they seemed gassed after that. They never recovered.

6 in every "measuring stick" game this year we have come up short except for the Dallas game. Im not ripping on the guys, especially with the injuries we have had but i think it shows we still have some work to do to hang with the big dogs.  We definitely need an upgrade on D. Soucy is a big piece when we get him back but we need at least one more solid NHL D man not named Hirose or Juulsen.

7 Seattle is a big game again. we werent going to win every game and there is no shame losing to the Avs on their ice. Denver is a tough place to play even when you are healthy and playing great. If we can beat the Squid, beat the sharks and come home 2/3 on the road trip thats ok. Playing .666 hockey on the road gets you in the playoffs. and then who knows.

[spook007]

24 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Think we are close.   Missing 3 things.   And we don't need Demko to be hot, can't re-call a game he's stolen for us yet (this season) , all we need is for him to be solid and consistent.  

 

One area this team has drastically improved since Bruce's time with us, is shots against and high danger chances.    There isn't many games, all season, that we haven't had more high danger shots then our opponents.   Thad's a drastic difference from the Green era (that roster stunk too), and don't have to rely on goaltending every single night.  

 

Those 3 things, one more rock solid defenseman, a two-way beast.  Willie Mitchell type would be nice.    That's going to cost us, either through a trade, or free agency.   There are teams out there, that will decide to pull the plug.   CLB and CAL low lying fruit.  

 

Second one is a Jeannot type.   This team needs someone to keep things honest come playoff time (and think we do make the playoffs).   That's a key ingredient, can see why TB provided their team this, they miss Marroon.   Small skilled team.   QHs is the crown jewel, and our team needs someone who the other team knows, is willing to take an instigator penalty.

 

Third is a legit 3C.   Strength down the middle wins cups.    A guy who can move up as needed,  and not hurt us.   Either that or yet another top four D and focus on that.    
 

Thats 3 guys.   And about all we can hope for.   Cap makes it awfully hard to get the full meal deal like TB and Vegas have managed.    Canucks are that close right now, from going from the group of teams that can win at any given night, to a dominant contender.    Hronek.   Made a huge difference.   Soucy also made a difference.    Agree the team is on the right path, but it can't afford to wait too long either.      

Been saying the same for some time. A rugged winger (not a plug), that can play up and down the line up, preferrably pacey, and a top 4 cost controlled 4rhd. 
3C can be covered by Suter and Bluger if needed, but the aforementioned two is a must. 
Hope they pull the trigger as soon as any opportunity presents itself. 
 

Lets not waste the two year opening from the OEL buy out, by standing pat. 

Get it done JR/PA...