[PGT] Canucks @ Avalanche Nov 22 2023

[-dlc-]

6 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

He is getting scorn from literally nowhere but here.  All over X people are laughing about it.  All over reddit people are laughing about it.  It's funny.

 

As for Manson's hit, I watched it again.  He isn't even looking at Boeser when he retaliates.  This is just another case of two guys cross-checking each other.  Since one was worse and drew blood, you just give the extra two to that guy.  Not 5 and a misconduct.  

 

Look at the video one more time.  If I crosscheck you and you hit me back without looking, under no circumstances would I think you deserve a 5 and a game for that.

The refs might have been also factoring in a missed call where he swiped Brock's feet out from under him at the blue line prior to the net front stuff. Dangerous....and considering Hoglander's deal, warranted to factor it all in. Plus...crosscheck to the neck/head area just isn't cool.

 

Reffing was atrocious on both sides though. Very hit and miss.

[spook007]

6 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

Of course the game's been analysed to death but to be honest the Makar goal sums it up - star vs star and theirs won. MacKinnon was pretty tightly checked to be fair and Petey did just about nothing, Quinn looked decent and Miller was incredible for us, and the two goalies were basically a wash, but that one play decides the game. Pretty tight battles across the board everywhere.

 

5-2 obviously isn't indicative of how close the game was, there were some great turning points everywhere and when it was tied I thought we pressed well, but started the 3rd really badly. Their GWG came out of nowhere, a bit like a playoff goal with a good battle in front of the net. We pushed a bit after but that was a great smart play by Makar to beat two of our best players in Miller and Demko so fair play to him. Quinn makes some incredible plays from the blueline but nothing that explosive. It's a pretty stupid, risky play by Makar - a defenceman jumping up and pinching the point, and when it doesn't work you need good low-down coverage by your forwards, but when it does work wow, it ends the game.

 

We're close to playing with the big boys but as has been said before, we're not there yet. Our defence needs an extra top-4 guy and that was the case in the off-season as well despite Cole and Soucy's additions. Something's wrong with Petey and we need to fix it, whether it's his wrist bothering him or linemates. Those are two big holes on the team which are costing us right now. Bright spots are still Hughes, our secondary scoring (in particular Hoglander) and Demko is sometimes good, sometimes showing signs of weaknesses.

 

We can't expect 5 guys to just win us every game, we need some help and some depth, whether it's via trade or from within.

 

For me for next game, I say we lineup like this:

 

Hoglander - Pettersson - Boeser

(grinder - playmaker - shooter)

 

Mikheyev - Miller - Kuzmenko

 

Garland - Blueger - Beauvillier

 

Joshua - Lafferty - PDG

 

 

Hughes - AHLer (Juulsen, McWard, Woo)

Cole - Hronek (shutdown pairing)

AHLer (Wolanin, Hirose) - Myers

Why would you play Hughes with some AHL plug?

'You are our best player, and we make you Captain, now go sit in the back of the bus'...

 

Wouldn't mind Miller between Mika and Kuz, but I fear for EP, if he plays with Brock and Hogs. Petey will be a target as neither Hogs nor Brock are strong enough to stand up for him or themselves. 

A player like Lafferty would be good if Brock plays with Petey. 

[-dlc-]

I will say that Petey has to be better (no matter what the deal is right now). He's a star player going for a big contract and a drop off in play doesn't bode well in that. Sure, he'll regain his form but the time is now....the team can't afford to hit a skid and lose momentum. But he will.

[IBatch]

30 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Hopefully we are developing one of those in Podz. 
‘Suter has been good in that 3 spot but would kind of like to shift him to wing if the third hadn’t looked so good with Joshua and Garland. 
Blueger can move up where needed to 3rd though kneecaps the offence from that line. 
Still that 2nd pairing right D is a massive hole that I am betting another first will go out to fix if/when a decent one becomes available. 

You bet.  Don't forget Raty either, he's still developing though.   Can see their plan kind of.   And think they've done a good job so far, both in their signings and their trades.    Buying out OEL was a statement as well.    A statement that they want to try an win now and compete now.   Just needs the follow  through.     Teams still got a lot of options next year.    Think EP is playing hurt.     If the team could pull off a trade to help the D, that would be the first thing.    The center position is a luxury item for sure.   What would Suter look like in the top six?  Or Bluegar?   Hopefully we won't need to find out. 

Edited November 23, 2023 by IBatch

[-dlc-]

18 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Think EP is playing hurt. 

They said on the post game after the TO game that he's playing through something (whether that be illness...he was coughing the game after, or injury)

[JayDangles]

6 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

What a mess this is to look at:

 

One of these days this graph will make sense to me... but it's not today

[JayDangles]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol coming in here watching the EP bashing just shows how toxic this fan base is.. you want to know why EP line is struggling 5v5? coz the 2 defenceman he plays with majority of the time 5v5 creates 0 space can't push tempo can't get the puck up to the forwards..

 

JT miller spent 160 mins with QH and Hronek compared to EP only spending 80mins with QH and Hronek.. easy to do well 5v5 when your defenceman is creating so much space for you on offence. guess what.. Miller's line looks terrible 5v5 offensively whenever they are not playing with QH and Hronek either which is rare... EP can dominate with inferior defenceman when the other teams are bad which is majority of the teams we played this year.. and when the tougher team shows up.. he can't do it by himself without the 2 defenceman.. it's literally playing 3v5 right now

What game are you watching?

You're trying to make a point, but the evidence on the ice doesn't support it.

We know Petey is being paired with low offense defenders... but that's not the reason man.

It's not like petey is out there dangling guys and then passing to a bad D man who flubs it up. It's not like Petey is feeding beauty passes back door and his teammates are missing open chances.

Petey is doing nothing individually out there either.

I'm not shitting on him for the sake of being negative.

Miller has scored 3 goals driving to the net in the last 6 games... non of those goals had anything to do with the defenceman.

Petey needs to be better individually. At this point it doesn't matter if it's an injury, mental, struggling linemates, whatever. He needs to be better.

[JayDangles]

9 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

They said on the post game after the TO game that he's playing through something (whether that be illness...he was coughing the game after, or injury)

Petey rumored to be possibly coughing almost 2 weeks ago cannot still be an excuse. 

I'm guessing it's a serious injury that would take him out of the lineup for a long time, and the team is trying to get far enough into the season to be comfortable in the standings before pulling him out....or he is slumping hard. Kind of like he did to start the 2021 season before Budreau took over and got him going. 

Not sure which one I prefer it to be though.

[IBatch]

15 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

They said on the post game after the TO game that he's playing through something (whether that be illness...he was coughing the game after, or injury)

For sure a noticeable difference in his play.   COL isn't an easy city to play in either, if you've got any lung stuff.     Sure that he wouldn't be on the ice if it wasn't something that can heal while enduring the rigours of the sport too.    We aren't at that part of the season.   

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Petey rumored to be possibly coughing almost 2 weeks ago cannot still be an excuse. 

I'm guessing it's a serious injury that would take him out of the lineup for a long time, and the team is trying to get far enough into the season to be comfortable in the standings before pulling him out....or he is slumping hard. Kind of like he did to start the 2021 season before Budreau took over and got him going. 

Not sure which one I prefer it to be though.

Hope not.   We'd be better off to just take him out and let the team deal with a possible losing streak then push that hard.    Team needs to be healthy down the stretch.   

Edited November 23, 2023 by IBatch

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, IBatch said:

For sure a noticeable difference in his play.   COL isn't an easy city to play in either, if you've got any lung stuff.     Sure that he wouldn't be on the ice if it wasn't something that can heal while enduring the rigours of the sport too.    We aren't at that part of the season.   

I actually thought last night was the best game he's had on awhile.  He certainly looked more engaged.

[IBatch]

18 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

One of these days this graph will make sense to me... but it's not today

Yep.   So guess we want to see blue in a variety of colours on the positive side of the ledger.   

Edited November 23, 2023 by IBatch

[EdgarM]

6 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol coming in here watching the EP bashing just shows how toxic this fan base is.. you want to know why EP line is struggling 5v5? coz the 2 defenceman he plays with majority of the time 5v5 creates 0 space can't push tempo can't get the puck up to the forwards..

 

JT miller spent 160 mins with QH and Hronek compared to EP only spending 80mins with QH and Hronek.. easy to do well 5v5 when your defenceman is creating so much space for you on offence. guess what.. Miller's line looks terrible 5v5 offensively whenever they are not playing with QH and Hronek either which is rare... EP can dominate with inferior defenceman when the other teams are bad which is majority of the teams we played this year.. and when the tougher team shows up.. he can't do it by himself without the 2 defenceman.. it's literally playing 3v5 right now

Yeah thats it, Hogs and Garland seem to be having the same problem too?   13 Million dollar players shouldn't need excuses for their poor performances.

[Silent Man]

Well. it's hurts. Really painful. 

[stawns]

One thing is for sure, they need to win the next 3

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

I actually thought last night was the best game he's had on awhile.  He certainly looked more engaged.

Sucks that he's had some tough games.    If I had to put a specific game on the schedule, it goes back to the Leafs game.    Nice thing is, even a 80% EP, does things for the team.    Just me maybe,  but haven't felt like EPs really got going yet all season.  

[stawns]

1 minute ago, IBatch said:

Sucks that he's had some tough games.    If I had to put a specific game on the schedule, it goes back to the Leafs game.    Nice thing is, even a 80% EP, does things for the team.    Just me maybe,  but haven't felt like EPs really got going yet all season.  

 

I don't think he's injured, I just think his confidence is gone.  Certainly plausible that he was sick and is feeling after effects and finding it hard to re-engage

[IBatch]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

One thing is for sure, they need to win the next 3

Would be nice.  Canucks need to play around .550 hockey the rest of the way, to make the playoffs.     Basically .500 plus the loser points along the way, the next 62.   95 points should do it.    Pedal to the metal though.   This win one lose one win two lose two stuff isn't inspiring.  

[IBatch]

5 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I don't think he's injured, I just think his confidence is gone.  Certainly plausible that he was sick and is feeling after effects and finding it hard to re-engage

Hope not.   Not sure why he'd lose his confidence either, had a great start, and that's without Mikheyev. 

 

Hope Tochett plays QHs Hronek more with him.   That would break his dry spell.    

Edited November 23, 2023 by IBatch

[stawns]

Just now, IBatch said:

Would be nice.  Canucks need to play around .550 hockey the rest of the way, to make the playoffs.     Basically .500 plus the loser points along the way, the next 62.   95 points should do it.    Pedal to the metal though.   This win one lose one win two lose two stuff isn't inspiring.  

 

Yup, they can't afford to go ve away points to teams below them, teams they should be beating.  It's going to be a fight for the rest of the season, but I think they play better when something's on the line.

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

Yeah thats it, Hogs and Garland seem to be having the same problem too?   13 Million dollar players shouldn't need excuses for their poor performances.

is hogs and garland playing against other teams top shutdown line? last i checked they are not.  EP is playing against the top shutdown line where time and space will be very hard to come by. on top of having your defenceman unable to push the puck up to the forward or create any space. is EP struggling? for sure he is.. but is he struggling because he sucks? or is he struggling because there's lack of talent and the other team just have to focus on 1 player and pretty much ignore the other 4? there's probably no other ppg player in the league the last 3 season that played with less talent and more random players than EP 5v5.. other teams figured out.. just focus and shut ep down.. the other 4 will automatically be shutdown because they are not capable of creating space themselves.

[Ghostsof1915]

27 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Petey rumored to be possibly coughing almost 2 weeks ago cannot still be an excuse. 

I'm guessing it's a serious injury that would take him out of the lineup for a long time, and the team is trying to get far enough into the season to be comfortable in the standings before pulling him out....or he is slumping hard. Kind of like he did to start the 2021 season before Budreau took over and got him going. 

Not sure which one I prefer it to be though.

That is a horrible way to handle a star level player. You can do additional damage and prolong the recovery by "playing through it".

If he's hurt, and it's serious, get it taken care of now before it gets any worse. Players are too valuable to risk long term damage.

 

[Ghostsof1915]

11 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I don't think he's injured, I just think his confidence is gone.  Certainly plausible that he was sick and is feeling after effects and finding it hard to re-engage

I really hope that's all it is. Folks on the board here have said they've had flu effects for 2-4 weeks. I hope it's just lingering illness. It would explain how he can be brilliant one minute and seem to have a brain fog and be unsure of himself the next two.

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

That is a horrible way to handle a star level player. You can do additional damage and prolong the recovery by "playing through it".

If he's hurt, and it's serious, get it taken care of now before it gets any worse. Players are too valuable to risk long term damage.

 

I agree. Rather him sit now and we deal with it. But NHL players play with injuries all the time. 

Maybe it's a season ending surgery God forbid.

I hate to speculate but that's all we're able to do

[IBatch]

Just now, stawns said:

 

Yup, they can't afford to go ve away points to teams below them, teams they should be beating.  It's going to be a fight for the rest of the season, but I think they play better when something's on the line.

One thing that really made the start that much better, was EDM was the favourite (they still have time), and we weren't giving away any points in our division or conference either.    Made it that much more valueable.   Agree they need a bit of a dialogue (a good start was the focus - they achieved that).   Expected a let down.    Shooting percentages were way out of whack.   There are some positives too.  Hogs , Joshua, Lafferty, Garland - our bottom six is bringing it.    EP is too good.   Expect to see something from him soon.    Maybe the pressure of the contract is getting to him a little.   Could also just be mental, not a physical thing.