[PGT] Canucks @ Avalanche Nov 22 2023

[Tusk]

2 minutes ago, Joshua.Guy said:

100% this. I've pointed it out a few times but falls on deaf ears. That said, Pettersson can't or won't shoot the puck right now. He's just not a threat and teams key in on that.

jeez it must be a total fluke I see Myers pass out to JT and Brock almost every game. I mean,isnt he the 3rd pair defense? maybe its just as they are changing with H&H so kinda an optical illusion.

[Tusk]

1 hour ago, Jaimito said:

Report card from Athletics

 

 

Canucks report cards 2023-24: Grading every Vancouver forward through 20 games

 

The Vancouver Canucks pushed in Denver on Wednesday night but struggled to generate Grade-A scoring chances in the third period against a stout Colorado Avalanche side that bested them.

 

The 5-2 loss was Vancouver’s third regulation defeat in the club’s past four games, the sort of flat stretch that’s been few and far between for one of the NHL’s best stories in the first quarter of the campaign.

 

For most of this season so far, all the Canucks have done is win. Now that we’re just about 25 percent into the season, The Athletic’s Vancouver bureau figured it’d use the next two days to assess precisely where this club stands, and grade the contributions of every Vancouver regular to this point in the campaign. We’ll start with the forwards today and then grade all of the defensemen and goaltenders on Friday.

 

Note: Grades are handed out relative to a player’s expectations. If Player X has a better grade than Player Y it doesn’t mean X has been more valuable than Y.

 

Elias Pettersson: A

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 8-20-28

 

Despite playing through an undisclosed ailment during the first quarter of the campaign, Pettersson remains the straw that stirs the drink for the Canucks up front.

 

Now saying that might be a bit controversial today than it would’ve been at any other point this season, given that Pettersson is coming off one of his most pedestrian performances of the year in Denver. Through the first 20 games of the campaign, however, Pettersson has been arguably the club’s most effective penalty-killing forward, remains the Canucks player with the most gravity on the man advantage, has drawn penalties at a dizzying rate and has driven play — albeit somewhat less effectively than he historically has, perhaps due to injury — at five-on-five.

 

By both Net Rating and Evolving Hockey’s Goals Above Replacement model, Pettersson has been Vancouver’s most valuable forward this season — and one of the most valuable players in the league:

 

 

 

Any way you slice it, as Pettersson goes, so go the Canucks. He is, simply put, one of the single most effective and complete centremen in hockey.

 

Ilya Mikheyev: B+

2023-24 statistics: 16 GP, 6-4-10

 

When a player comes back after an injury as severe as Mikheyev’s ACL tear, it can often take a while to shake off the rust. We haven’t seen the same type of explosive foot speed Mikheyev showed in Toronto, and the coaching staff has been careful to limit his penalty-killing minutes, but his return has otherwise been stronger than expected.

 

Since drawing back into the lineup, Mikheyev is tied with Quinn Hughes for the team lead with six five-on-five goals. He also leads the club in five-on-five shots and high-danger chances in that span. That’s pretty impressive considering his linemates Pettersson and Kuzmenko have slowed down at even strength lately.

 

Mikheyev looks confident and assertive with the puck, while even sprinkling in the type of unexpected deke or maneuver to create space that we’ve rarely seen from him previously. His line needs to start generating better five-on-five results but it’s not Mikheyev’s responsibility to be the primary driver of a top-six line. He’s a complementary piece on that line — it’s on his linemates to step up.

 

Individually, he’s performed about as well as you could have hoped given how long of a layoff he had. As he puts the injury further behind, hopefully he can regain the exhilarating explosiveness that can make him even more effective on the forecheck.

 

Andrei Kuzmenko: C+

2023-24 statistics: 19 GP, 3-11-14

 

Kuzmenko remains an absolute game breaker, but it’s been too quiet around him too often this season.

 

The obvious regression — and Kuzmenko converted shots at a 27 percent clip, a historic rate in his first NHL campaign, which was never going to last — has hit. In fact, it’s gone overboard.

 

Kuzmenko is shooting 10 percent through his first 19 games (down from 27 percent) with an individual point percentage in the mid-40s, which is down from 70 percent last season (individual point percentage is a measurement of how many goals scored when a player is on the ice they’ve credited with a point on).

 

Given Kuzmenko’s finishing skill at the net front and his knack for getting his stick on pucks in the blue paint, we’d expect him to convert at a clip north of league average going forward. Given his absurd ability to feather passes through traffic and find open teammates in soft areas of coverage, we’d expect him to be involved on more of the goals scored when he’s on the ice when the sample expands.

 

Despite there being some noise deflating his individual counting stats, Kuzmenko’s two-way contributions have been a bit uneven this season as well. He’s currently playing fourth-line minutes at five-on-five and ranks 10th among Vancouver forwards who have dressed in at least 10 games by even-strength ice time per game, and it’s clear he’s still working on earning Rick Tocchet’s trust.

 

Overall, Kuzmenko hasn’t played poorly and he’s still making a handful of plays that are unique and show off his superb skill level, but given his role — on Pettersson’s wing at evens, and on the Canucks’ vaunted first-unit power play — it’s probably fair to note he hasn’t made a full meal of his opportunities through the first quarter of the campaign.

 

J.T. Miller: A

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 13-17-30

 

Miller has looked like a man on a mission this year. Miller’s 30 points in 20 games have him sitting second in NHL scoring behind only Hughes and his 13 goals are one back of Kyle Connor and Auston Matthews for the league lead. He’s a massive cog for Vancouver’s elite power play because of his dual-threat playmaking and finishing skills, registering the most primary points on the man advantage among the club’s PP1 group.

 

The rave reviews of Miller’s game have a lot more to do with just offense, however.

 

After oft-criticized defensive play last year, Miller’s two-way form looks considerably sharper. He’s held up in a shutdown role against opposing top lines, which would have seemed far-fetched a year ago. There are still nights where his line gets caved — the Canucks are getting outshot and outchanced with Miller on the ice this year — but he’s been sturdy and up to the task on most nights. There’s been a significant improvement in his commitment on the backcheck and at cutting down the egregious giveaways that tainted his reputation last year.

 

Miller has been a monster and his line’s effectiveness in handling the hardest minutes on the team is a major catalyst behind the Canucks’ hot start.

 

Brock Boeser: A-

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 13-9-22

 

Boeser is leading all Canucks forwards in five-on-five ice time per game this season and has scored more goals than every single player in the NHL outside of Kyle Conner and Auston Matthews. That’s a dream start for Boeser, who has endured several uneven, rumour-filled campaigns in Vancouver over the past few years.

 

Although Boeser’s two-way results by the underlying numbers this season have been a bit soft, he’s battling extremely difficult matchups on Miller’s wing and the enhanced maturity and well-roundedness of his overall game has been apparent. The goal totals get the headlines, as they should, but Boeser’s work on the wall, his playmaking and his overall positional intelligence have been key in the Miller line’s success at five-on-five.

 

It should also be noted that Boeser has eight power-play points, and has been the screener on a large handful of other Vancouver goals scored with the man advantage. Boeser has perhaps been the quickest study and the player most positively impacted by the early success of Vancouver’s movement power-play scheme.

 

Phil Di Giuseppe: B

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 3-5-8

 

In an ideal situation, Di Giuseppe would be a bottom-six player. There’s a deficit in both his finishing touch and overall ability to drive offence that makes him a less-than-perfect fit for a complementary top-six role.

 

But in the grand scheme of things, it’s extremely impressive that an AHL/NHL tweener has capably held down a top-six matchup role for a quarter of a season. Eight points in 20 games doesn’t seem that impressive, but it’s solid considering he doesn’t get any power-play time.

 

The question now is how much longer he can last in this high-profile role.

 

Di Giuseppe is excellent as the first man in on the forecheck. Early in the season, his work as the F1 was helping Miller’s line control a lot of heavy cycling shifts in the offensive zone. The Canucks’ blue line hasn’t been quite as fast transitioning the puck on exits in recent games though, which is creating fewer opportunities for Di Giuseppe to create havoc on the forecheck. Without a conducive environment to leverage his puck retrieval skills, Di Giuseppe has been fairly quiet and his underlying two-way numbers have slipped. During the last couple of games, we’ve even seen Rick Tocchet give Anthony Beauvillier some shifts on the Miller line in Di Giuseppe’s place.

 

Dakota Joshua: B-

2023-24 statistics: 19 GP, 2-3-5

 

It hasn’t been the smoothest ride, but on balance, Joshua has been excellent as a mainstay on Vancouver’s third line.

 

The hardworking, physical forward is indispensable to Vancouver’s forward group given his unique combination of size and speed relative to his teammates. That has kept him in the lineup despite some pointed commentary from Tocchet about his fitness level during training camp, and his consistency during the season.

 

For the most part, though, Joshua has taken any pointed criticism of his game in stride and continually improved. Over the past month or so, Joshua and his linemates have provided Vancouver with significant stability on the third line. And although he’s not one of the club’s most frequently used penalty killers, Joshua’s impact in short-handed situations has been exceptional. It might even be an area where the club should strongly consider using him more frequently.

 

Conor Garland: B-

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 2-3-5

 

Let’s get the obvious out of the way: Two goals and five points aren’t enough for a $4.95 million forward. There has to be much more bottom-line production moving forward.

 

Garland’s overall impact far exceeds what the disappointing point totals give him credit for, though.

 

Garland has been the play-driving engine for the vastly improved bottom six. The Canucks are throttling teams to the tune of a 60 percent control of shot attempts and outscoring them 8-4 during his five-on-five shifts this season. That underlying profile is the best of any Canucks player.

 

Vancouver’s feisty undersized winger is setting up a ton of chances but what can a playmaker do when his linemates can’t bury their chances? Clever passes into the slot that would normally turn into assists are instead missed scoring chances by Teddy Blueger and Joshua. Garland needs to do a better job of capitalizing on his own chances too, but he’s a distributor first and foremost, which means he’s at the mercy of his linemates’ finishing to rack up points.

 

The way Garland’s hounding pucks, winning battles, drawing penalties and pushing the pace is essential for the third line’s current success. He’s one of the few forwards on this team who can legitimately drive even-strength offence and he barely gets scored on defensively, too. He’s a really important piece for this team, even if the point totals don’t reflect that yet.

 

Pius Suter: B

2023-24 statistics: 15 GP, 4-0-4

 

Suter’s recent injury absence has been sorely felt, particularly given the way the club’s third-line was beginning to cook prior to his injury.

 

Although the counting stats have been pedestrian, Suter’s overall two-way intelligence, high motor and honest work rate have made him a helpful supporting contributor to Vancouver’s red-hot start. He’s just played clean, subtly effective hockey over 200 feet on a consistent basis when he’s been in the lineup.

 

Teddy Blueger: B-

2023-24 statistics: 6 GP, 0-1-1

 

Blueger doesn’t have the offensive chops to hold down a top-nine role. Blueger’s profile has long indicated he’s best served as a fourth-line centre though, so he doesn’t deserve criticism for being unable to bury some of the glorious looks the third line is generating.

 

The veteran defensive centre has added value by winning 54.1 percent of his draws and displaying smart positioning and puck support in all three zones. He hasn’t hindered the third line’s ability to control play by any means and has only been tagged for one five-on-five goal against through six contests. That’s good stuff considering how far a player like Blueger can end up behind the eight ball when they miss a solid chunk of games due to injury.

 

Blueger’s calling card is his penalty-killing ability. It appears that Tocchet is mindful of Blueger’s heavier even-strength workload and is trying not to put too much on his plate until he’s farther removed from that injury because he’s played just 4:19 short-handed through his six games.

 

Nils Höglander: B+

2023-24 statistics: 18 GP, 6-3-9

 

The Canucks need to find more opportunity to get Höglander involved.

 

The waterbug fourth-liner, whom Pettersson has often referred to as a “pint-sized power forward,” has been one of Vancouver’s standouts whenever he’s been in the lineup. While playing a fourth-line role and occasionally finding himself in the press box as a healthy scratch in the early going, Höglander has nonetheless found ways to generate offence and scoring chances on a far more consistent basis than the majority of his teammates.

 

A historic PDO bender has hidden how much difficulty this Canucks team is having generating really high-quality scoring chances at even strength in the first quarter of the season. As the shooting percentage evens out, the Canucks are going to need to generate more if they’re going to continue winning games at the sort of clip they have to this point. The game in Colorado was a fine example — they simply didn’t test Alexander Georgiev frequently enough when down a goal in the third period.

 

Höglander may still have a few warts in terms of his overall defensive IQ, but his work rate is standout, and if this club isn’t generating enough quality scoring chances — and they’re not, at the moment — increasing Höglander’s ice time and the quality of his linemates is one of the most straightforward internal solutions at the club’s disposal.

 

Sam Lafferty: B

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 4-5-9

 

Lafferty’s speed, size and grit have added a unique dimension to the Canucks’ bottom six. He’s combined those tools with an unimpeachable work rate to put pressure on opposing defenders, whether that’s on the forecheck or even rush chances where he attacks the net hard. The Canucks have gained enormously from the four goals and nine points he’s chipped in with as well.

 

Lafferty’s underlying numbers are a bit soft but it’s worth remembering he’s played a lot of games at centre, whereas last season, he was mostly lining up on the wing.

 

Jack Studnicka: C+

2023-24 statistics: 5 GP, 1-0-0

 

Studnicka forced his way into the Vancouver lineup with a stupendous run at training camp, and looked solid and physically assertive while playing both at centre and on the wing in his five appearances this season. Studnicka will surely be back as injuries hit later on in the season and looks the part of a solid depth contributor.

 

Anthony Beauvillier: C-

2023-24 statistics: 20 GP, 2-6-8

 

Vancouver’s glut of wingers meant somebody would suffer in terms of opportunity. Beauvillier’s been the odd man out, spending most of the year in a fourth-line role. The 13:30 he’s averaging this season is a far cry from the 16:59 he averaged in 33 games with Vancouver down the stretch.

 

That reduced usage is justified because he’s been invisible offensively for the most part. Beauvillier’s only two goals were the ninth and 10th tallies in the Canucks’ 10-1 blowout of the Sharks. He has been a lot more noticeable and dangerous during the last 2-3 games and has earned shifts higher up the lineup, but he still can’t buy a bounce right now. Beauvillier has been a streaky player so hopefully the floodgates will open for a hot stretch once one finally goes in.

 

Beauvillier is reliable defensively (he rarely makes mistakes and is dilligent on the backcheck) and has positive play-driving numbers, but he needs to provide more value considering his $4.15 million cap hit.

 

(Photo of Andrei Kuzmenko celebrating with Elias Pettersson and Brock Boeser: Stan Szeto / USA Today)

 

If you cant tell a story, you make a story? Geez the Canucks are A+++ compared to Canucks last 10 something years. 

[CanucksJay]

11 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

EP have proven he's one of the best defensive forward in the game last year i see no issues with him handling the top players. he's out mostly against other teams shutdown line.. it's hard to generate anything if your defenceman ain't capable of creating space.. i mean at worse Miller can still play against other teams top player while having 2 defenceman less offensive but more defensive like cole... ideally hughes and hronek would be on 2 seperate pair.. but our defence is too inept for that to happen.. so you have 1 really good offensive defenceman pairing both capable of creating space.. and then 2 pairing that can't create and kinda chaos in their own zone.. it further highlights the need of a top 4 defenceman whether it's LD or RD ideally someone similar to hronek that can create space.. not necessary a QH type super offensive/agressive.. since we have cole already that can cover the defensive side of things

I wonder if that's worth a try then. It might be enough to get Petey going. 

 

Looking at the game though,it looks like Hogz scored when Friedman and Cole were on their line. 

Ofcourse, they were playing against weaker opposition. 

Bleuger and Joshua also created opportunities playing with the bottom pairing. 

 

If Petey is commanding top 5 NHL money, what level of line mates does he need to produce against tough opposition? 

Is Soucy and Myers level good or does he also need star level D like Hughes Hronek? 

 

I almost feel like you pay superstars that type of money because they are supposed to be the guys that elevate their line and produce. 

Is there a site where you can check how many minutes Petey has spent with different players?

I do believe that with Hughes and Hronek playing almost 30 min, Petey would have spent sometime 5v5 with him as well as Cole and Myers. 

 

 

 

[Frozen Water Walker]

13 hours ago, JamesB said:

Some comments.

 

 

 

1. This game is balancing out some earlier games when the score flattered the Canucks. Tonight was the opposite. In Natural Stat Trick the Canucks had slightly more high danger chances and slightly more expected goals. The Canucks had more shots and a higher fenwick number. That Avs had a slightly higher corsi (57 to 55). But, in terms of the underlying stats, it was a close game and, if anything, the Canucks were the slightly better team.

 

 

 

2. As Tocchet said after the game, the Canucks had a lot of good chances, both at 5-on-5 and on the PP. It is not like the PP has gone cold. They are generating lots of good looks. The pucks just isn't going in. People worried about the PDO being too high to be sustainable might be happy that the PDO is dropping pretty fast and is now back in reasonable territory. Their 5-on-5 PDO is now essentially tied with Boston (1.041 vs. 1040).

 

 

 

3. The Blueger, Joshua, Garland line was particularly good. Admittedly they faced weaker opposition than the top two lines, but they had an 8-2 Corsi advantage. They gave up nothing defensively and had some good chances. But the puck just would not go in for them.  Beauvillier also had a good night and at least picked up an assist. Hogs was pretty good also and got a nice goal.  So the bottom 6 is definitely pulling its weight.

 

 

 

4. If we want to identify weaknesses, aside from not getting the bounces, the most obvious thing is the Pettersson line.  This is just a continuing story. Petey has not looked great for the last few games. Not bad, and even pretty good, but not like he did earlier. As for Kuzy, he is a good player, but not as good as he looked last year. This is probably just regression to the expected value (to the "mean").

 

 

 

5. But, overall, the forwards are good. They did not get the bounces tonight, especially on the PP, but they will score at a fairly high rate.

 

 

 

6. The defence is more of a problem. First, both Friedman and Myers were hurt tonight. Let's hope those are minor injuries. With Soucy out for a while and Wolanin and Brisebois (remember him) both hurt, things will be looking desperate if Friedman and Myers both have to miss some time. Jett Woo might get a chance to make his NHL debut.  And we might see Irwin.

 

 

 

7. In tonight's game, both Hughes and Hronek played heavy minutes again (28 for Hughes and 27 for Hronek). They are good, but it is hard for them to maintain their energy through a full 60 playing this much every night. Juulsen had another pretty decent night. He was -2 but I would not say the goals were his fault. His underlying stats were actually pretty good and he was up over 15 minutes. But Myers had a bad game according to the advanced stats and it looked to me like he was reverting to his more chaotic style of play. 

 

 

 

8. I would add that Demmer did not have his best night. None of the goals were his "fault" -- cross seam tap in, deflection, screened shot that trickles through, and a breakaway. But on a good night (or a luckier night) Demmer probably stops one of those.

 

 

 

9. Just one day to rest and then a road back-to-back. This is an important weekend coming up. The Canucks need a bounce back against Seattle and them, despite being tired, they cannot let two potential points against the Sharks slip away. 

 

 

 

I like the take, except for Petey, his offencive play has ben hampered by alot of double teaming, but his defensive play has been outstanding.

 

Teams will now start to double team Miller that power move to the net for that goal was just sick, wow.

 

They can't double team both Petey and Miller so one of them is going to be scoring, that is some nice depth to have, that defensive depth is really quite poor.

[Goal_thecup]

3 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Absolutely embarrassing... it was blatant pens, every single one of them.

Cross check Boeser in the face and complain he goes down... Big man Manson, cross checking lady bing in the face... Really want us to sign a boy that can take them on...

 

To see Makar battling Petey behind the goal also really wanted me to see one of the other guys run him over... big time.

Seems to be the way the league is going, with yappy clown behaviour like Tkachuk  and Manson getting away with stuff they should have to answer for, and bulldogs like Nils Höglander get slapped for standing up for themselves.  Kinda like the Rat-Nosed Marchand speed-bagging Daniel Sedin and the zebras giving Daniel the penalty (for unsportsmanlike conduct).

 

What I think we need is a couple big, mean, wingers who can stand up to the heavyweight fighters; the rest of the team will get 'tougher' just by putting these 2 on the bench.

Guys who know how and when to get suspended, kicked out of the game, or take penalties; you know, guys who scare the shit out of you.

 

Individuals like Boeser and Pettersson have to learn how to stand up for themselves without getting killed.

But that doesn't mean that The Bruiser Twins can's extract punishment on anyone at any time, as needed.

 

You need this type of team toughness to Win The Stanley Cup.

You need it to win in the playoffs, get in the playoffs, and we need it as soon as possible.

 

We also need to draft, develop, players who show they may grow into this type of player.

Just look what they're worth once you have them

So you have to get prospects from every possible source.

 

If you don't, you end up with a non-playoff, non-winning, lotus land, country club, easy to play against rep that makes every other team think they're tougher and then it is open season on Petey, Quinn, Hoglander, Kuz, etc, without deterrence.  (We have too many softies.)

 

When our Bruisers lay into key players on the other team, they will quit running ours.

And we have to beat a few of them up (at least) to get some kind of respectable reputation back.

We could really use even one bruiser right now before this crap goes on any further.

 

Dump Beauvillier and Garland and drop in some meathooks.

At least one Ogie on the bench, waiting for Rick to knee him in the back, will make them think twice.

 

 - Bill "Goldie" Goldthorpe, the inspiration for Ogie Oglethorpe of Slapshot fame.

Fun article about Goldie and the movie Slapshot here:

 https://thehockeynews.com/news/bill-goldthorpe-the-man-the-myth-the-legend 

And if anyone has not seen Slapshot and is a hockey fan, you owe it to yourself to see it and it still holds up well today.

[grumpyone]

6 minutes ago, Frozen Water Walker said:

I like the take, except for Petey, his offencive play has ben hampered by alot of double teaming, but his defensive play has been outstanding.

 

Teams will now start to double team Miller that power move to the net for that goal was just sick, wow.

 

They can't double team both Petey and Miller so one of them is going to be scoring, that is some nice depth to have, that defensive depth is really quite poor.

I've been wondering if this is the main reason that Petey's production is down. Other teams are keying on him. But like you said that opens up the ice for our 1B line ( PBJ) 

You can only put out your best D-men out against one line, most nights.

[EdgarM]

4 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I wonder if that's worth a try then. It might be enough to get Petey going. 

 

Looking at the game though,it looks like Hogz scored when Friedman and Cole were on their line. 

Ofcourse, they were playing against weaker opposition. 

Bleuger and Joshua also created opportunities playing with the bottom pairing. 

 

If Petey is commanding top 5 NHL money, what level of line mates does he need to produce against tough opposition? 

Is Soucy and Myers level good or does he also need star level D like Hughes Hronek? 

 

I almost feel like you pay superstars that type of money because they are supposed to be the guys that elevate their line and produce. 

Is there a site where you can check how many minutes Petey has spent with different players?

I do believe that with Hughes and Hronek playing almost 30 min, Petey would have spent sometime 5v5 with him as well as Cole and Myers. 

 

 

 

I never got this either, players like Mario or Bure never needed any assistance on the ice. They dominated the play when ever they were on the ice. Bure even had Odjick scoring when he played with him on his line. 

Was Hank just as effective without Daniel? 

I hope Petey has some kind of nagging injury , otherwise, i would be questioning his resiliency during tougher games and tougher checking. That is not going to get any easier come play off time.

[bishopshodan]

1 hour ago, aGENT said:

 

Who suggested Miller wasn't a good player?

Nobody.

We are in agreement.

 

Miller is a great player. Has...leadership,  is driven, durable, very productive, can play center and wing, good on the PK and PP. On a good contract. 

I mean, the guy is all round top tier player and massive part of our team. No doubt. 

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, EdgarM said:

I never got this either, players like Mario or Bure never needed any assistance on the ice. They dominated the play when ever they were on the ice. Bure even had Odjick scoring when he played with him on his line. 

Was Hank just as effective without Daniel? 

I hope Petey has some kind of nagging injury , otherwise, i would be questioning his resiliency during tougher games and tougher checking. That is not going to get any easier come play off time.

I have full confidence in Petey.  I think there is a nagging injury. That along with contract negotiations and him putting extra pressure on himself to be better has made things worse. 

 

Petey was amazing during the playoffs in the covid bubble. 

He's at his best when he gets his shots off which then creates lanes for him to make a pass. 

When he gets shooting and scoring again, I'm sure his assists will pile up too. 

 

 

[Goal_thecup]

3 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

Nobody.

We are in agreement.

 

Miller is a great player. Has...leadership,  is driven, durable, very productive, can play center and wing, good on the PK and PP. On a good contract. 

I mean, the guy is all round top tier player and massive part of our team. No doubt. 

@aGENT is just lookin' for trouble.

Who said that?

Where'd he go?

Why, I oughta..

[aGENT]

3 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

@aGENT is just lookin' for trouble.

Who said that?

Where'd he go?

Why, I oughta..

I didn't start this... Wrong guy if you're looking for someone starting trouble

 

[spook007]

23 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

Seems to be the way the league is going, with yappy clown behaviour like Tkachuk  and Manson getting away with stuff they should have to answer for, and bulldogs like Nils Höglander get slapped for standing up for themselves.  Kinda like the Rat-Nosed Marchand speed-bagging Daniel Sedin and the zebras giving Daniel the penalty (for unsportsmanlike conduct).

 

What I think we need is a couple big, mean, wingers who can stand up to the heavyweight fighters; the rest of the team will get 'tougher' just by putting these 2 on the bench.

Guys who know how and when to get suspended, kicked out of the game, or take penalties; you know, guys who scare the shit out of you.

 

Individuals like Boeser and Pettersson have to learn how to stand up for themselves without getting killed.

But that doesn't mean that The Bruiser Twins can's extract punishment on anyone at any time, as needed.

 

You need this type of team toughness to Win The Stanley Cup.

You need it to win in the playoffs, get in the playoffs, and we need it as soon as possible.

 

We also need to draft, develop, players who show they may grow into this type of player.

Just look what they're worth once you have them

So you have to get prospects from every possible source.

 

If you don't, you end up with a non-playoff, non-winning, lotus land, country club, easy to play against rep that makes every other team think they're tougher and then it is open season on Petey, Quinn, Hoglander, Kuz, etc, without deterrence.  (We have too many softies.)

 

When our Bruisers lay into key players on the other team, they will quit running ours.

And we have to beat a few of them up (at least) to get some kind of respectable reputation back.

We could really use even one bruiser right now before this crap goes on any further.

 

Dump Beauvillier and Garland and drop in some meathooks.

At least one Ogie on the bench, waiting for Rick to knee him in the back, will make them think twice.

 

 - Bill "Goldie" Goldthorpe, the inspiration for Ogie Oglethorpe of Slapshot fame.

Fun article about Goldie and the movie Slapshot here:

 https://thehockeynews.com/news/bill-goldthorpe-the-man-the-myth-the-legend 

And if anyone has not seen Slapshot and is a hockey fan, you owe it to yourself to see it and it still holds up well today.

 

Agree 100%... I do want the bruisers to be able to play as well, and they are expensive. So yes you have to draft size...

Watching morons being smart in the penalty box towards a non fighter like Boeser is embarrassing, and I really wish we had somebody to tune him in next time...

 

Only reason he behaved like that, was the knowledge of no REAL response from our team...

It was the same shit with Marchand, Matheson, Keith etc etc etc... Turn the other cheek only works so long. 

 

If we get to the show, Petey and Quinn Hughes will likely be sidelined very quickly, by some donkey... Only real response is to go toe to toe with them, and let them pay the price, you run one of us, we'll run one of yours... And when you get out from the penalty box, we'll tear you a new one.

Benning knew that, and even tried to address it by getting Gudbransson... unfortunately while he could throw them, it was all he could, and it's hard to have a D Man that struggle that bad.

 

A rugged winger will maybe not stop the opposition from taking liberties, but the victims will be much taller, knowing there are others to answer the bell for them...

 

And yes Slap Shot is a must see film for anyone, who loves hockey... 

Edited November 23, 2023 by spook007

[Goal_thecup]

2 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I didn't start this... Wrong guy if you're looking for someone starting trouble

 

That's what they all say.

"Book him Danno!"

[IBatch]

25 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

I wonder if that's worth a try then. It might be enough to get Petey going. 

 

Looking at the game though,it looks like Hogz scored when Friedman and Cole were on their line. 

Ofcourse, they were playing against weaker opposition. 

Bleuger and Joshua also created opportunities playing with the bottom pairing. 

 

If Petey is commanding top 5 NHL money, what level of line mates does he need to produce against tough opposition? 

Is Soucy and Myers level good or does he also need star level D like Hughes Hronek? 

 

I almost feel like you pay superstars that type of money because they are supposed to be the guys that elevate their line and produce. 

Is there a site where you can check how many minutes Petey has spent with different players?

I do believe that with Hughes and Hronek playing almost 30 min, Petey would have spent sometime 5v5 with him as well as Cole and Myers. 

 

 

 

You absolutely DO pay top five guys to produce with whomever.   Look at Crosby.    For years it was a revolving door of whomever (Rusts of the league) until Geuntzal showed up, and you can bet Geuntzal on the Canucks at the same time would be pretty average.    If we pay EP top ten money, he should be a top ten player.   I've been going against the grain the past two years saying that Barkov is his comp.     Less physically capable, better offense.    Same two-way game.    Yes EP could have an Art Ross in him.   So far i've seen more from Federov though, at the same age.     Flame away. 

[Goal_thecup]

FN Rabble Rousers in here.

Always stirrin' the pot; always lookin' fer trouble.

Mods aren't what they used to be.

Ban me, ban me, oughta take a rope 'n' hang me.

 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

FN Rabble Rousers in here.

Always stirrin' the pot; always lookin' fer trouble.

Mods aren't what they used to be.

Ban me, ban me, oughta take a rope 'n' hang me.

 

Is it fishing season? Alf’s ready! 

[hockeyfan-observer]

Thought it was a good effort yesterday - the very top teams seem to find a way to crank it up in the third though (Tampa Colo To) and get timely goals.  Hopefully this is something the Canucks can use as a benchmark to make it the next level.  At this point, I think they are about no 5-6 in the conference based on their schedule so far -  a far cry from last year when they were closer to 10-12th.

 

The next game 20 games will give an indication of where they are  - teams are a bit stronger than the first quarter but at least only 1 back to back with games every other day with the holiday break.

Overall an excellent first quarter - time to look at areas that need improvement starting with the Kraken on Friday.  I think as the season moves forward, they'll probably need to play more "Tocchet" style of hockey - getting goals, rebounds from those greasy areas and around the net - kind of like the Avs third goal last night.  Also, they have lost some recent games with their play in third period so hopefully they improve in that area as well. Regardless, glad to be discussing areas of improvement instead of "tank" talk

 

 

 

Edited November 23, 2023 by hockeyfan-observer

[Barn Burner]

19 minutes ago, EdgarM said:

I never got this either, players like Mario or Bure never needed any assistance on the ice. They dominated the play when ever they were on the ice. Bure even had Odjick scoring when he played with him on his line. 

Was Hank just as effective without Daniel? 

I hope Petey has some kind of nagging injury , otherwise, i would be questioning his resiliency during tougher games and tougher checking. That is not going to get any easier come play off time.

There has to be some kind of nagging injury or illness. Wasn't it a couple of weeks ago, when Button was calling Petey and Hughes the two best players in the league? 

 

Get healthy, and EP should be fine.

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

28 minutes ago, aGENT said:

I didn't start this... Wrong guy if you're looking for someone starting trouble

 

"You're messing with the wrong guy"

Happy Thanksgiving 

[Ghostsof1915]

How about trying Mik, Petey, Hoglander as a line?

 

[Tusk]

that hit on friedman, anyone got a utube link? its not exactly in the NHL highlights. Game was only available in BC

[Tusk]

28 minutes ago, hockeyfan-observer said:

Thought it was a good effort yesterday - the very top teams seem to find a way to crank it up in the third though (Tampa Colo To) and get timely goals.  Hopefully this is something the Canucks can use as a benchmark to make it the next level.  At this point, I think they are about no 5-6 in the conference based on their schedule so far -  a far cry from last year when they were closer to 10-12th.

 

I personally have no issues with the (Tampa Colo To) games, they played like a team who wins 4 out of 7.

I have more issues with the Philly game, Calgary. and the recent Seattle games.

We cant lose to weak teams, we can lose 3 of 7 against strong teams.

[canuck73_3]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

I never got this either, players like Mario or Bure never needed any assistance on the ice. They dominated the play when ever they were on the ice. Bure even had Odjick scoring when he played with him on his line. 

Was Hank just as effective without Daniel? 

I hope Petey has some kind of nagging injury , otherwise, i would be questioning his resiliency during tougher games and tougher checking. That is not going to get any easier come play off time.

He’s obviously battling something, playoffs aren't a concern for me his only playoff appearance he had 18 points in 17 games. No issue with resiliency in tougher games. 

[JayDangles]

9 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

He’s obviously battling something, playoffs aren't a concern for me his only playoff appearance he had 18 points in 17 games. No issue with resiliency in tougher games. 

I'm not sure i'm following the logic.

You're not concerned about his current issues on the ice, or for future playoff games... because 3 years ago he played well? This doesn't track

[Tusk]

I think the point is he is getting points, maybe not highlight reels....

The best thing about Petey this year is the teams have to look to defend against Millar and Brock and people will slowly drop the double coverage on Petey until its too late.

6 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I'm not sure i'm following the logic.

You're not concerned about his current issues on the ice, or for future playoff games... because 3 years ago he played well? This doesn't track