(PGT) Canucks at Sharks

[Miss Korea]

2 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

The other take?

 

"Or course there will be all those insecure fans who immediately panic when the team looks tired, depleted and beat up. Rather than exercising patience"

 

Most sports fans would be concerned when their team looks tired, depleted and beat up.  Those issues typically compound as the campaign drags on.  San Jose was also playing on short rest, and they've got lots of injuries piled up: Couture, Barabanov, Lindblom, Rutta, and Zadina.  All of them would be playing for the main squad when healthy.

 

To paraphrase Tocchet, playoff teams don't make excuses.  They own the loss and know they need to be much better next game.

 

Just now, -dlc- said:

Only reading to here because you won't change my mind on Miller. 

 

I supported when he got sat...you may have missed that.His emotions were getting the best of him and he needed to reel it in. And did.

 

He can do wrong but it's never because he's lazy/doesn't care/etc. Usually he's gassed and, last night, was pretty banged up on a back to back on the road. 

 

He doesn't do much wrong...so why would I find fault in him?

 

I think he does a lot more right than wrong but he still does plenty wrong.  That's what happens when you try and do everything!

[Elias Pettersson]

37 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

I disagree........I'm reacting to a return to a  style of play we've seen from this team consistently over the last 2.5 years.  And no one is hitting the panic button, just trying to have objective discussions with other Canuck fans without the getting shouted down for seeing things a little more objectively from fans who are obviously a little insecure about their team

We aren’t playing the same style of hockey from the last 2.5 years. We have new coaches with completely different systems. And we have different players on the ice as well. 
 

Just because we lose doesn’t mean we are falling back to our “old” ways. We aren’t playing pond hockey like last year. And we are scoring at a higher clip than at any time since the Sedins were around. 
 

We are the highest scoring team in the NHL. And our goal differential is #1 in the league. It’s not even close actually. 
 

We actually dominated the 3rd period last night. We should have won the game. But we let in a couple of crappy goals. We were a tired team playing our second game in two nights on the road. 

[Kragar]

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

I'd agree, but they're the same trends we saw over two seasons with TG and BB and they've returned in the last 10 games.  When the same problems happen again and again, you can't pin it on schedule or tiredness etc, and I don't think Tocchet is doing that, just fans who seem to be very insecure about the success of the team.

 

However, Tocchet hasn't been able to stop it from happening either.

You might be right, although it might be too small a sample size to suggest a trend. If it continues when they are rested, that changes things.  If they bounce back after staying at home for a while and practice in familiar territory, then we can all (mostly) go back to reveling in the potential for an awesome season.

 

2 hours ago, stawns said:

 

And when it comes to excuses from the fan base, it makes it difficult to have objectiv discussions on a discussion board because they simply won't tolerate a different perspective and can't have a reasonable, objective discussion about the realities staring them in the face.

 

Of course the schedule is working against them, of course the refs are going to make some iffy calls, of course some players might be banged up.  So what?  That's the story of every team in the league and the teams at the top work through it.  I'm hoping the Canucks can turn it around and remain a divisional playoff team

The first paragraph could be turned the other way, too.  If someone wants to blow things up (not saying you are pushing that far, it's just an example) because of the lousy play lately, ignoring the reality of the schedule grind (for instance), it hurts the discussions too. Just like any other discussion, if someone just wants to trumpet their position without considering any other input, it's pointless to go further.

 

For a PGT, it's all valid.  Teams get screwed by the refs (calls could have gone better for us last night... I wonder if it was Sandlak trying too hard to be "objective") to some degree or another. Sometimes those teams win and the ref flaws are more quickly forgotten, but if they lose, the bad calls sting.

 

Most times, good teams can weather those kinds of problems. But not always. Maybe we need more personnel changes. Consensus here is pretty much Beau needs to go, and we need D. Not an easy deal to make, especially with Beau's production lacking, and we can all imagine the outcry when/if a move costs us our 1st.

 

I don't get too much involved in trade discussions, as I don't have the bandwidth to focus on other players so much (even less for prospects) and so my opinions are less informed than is good for discussion. I just have to trust PA and all. They've done pretty well so far.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 minute ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Most sports fans would be concerned when their team looks tired, depleted and beat up.  Those issues typically compound as the campaign drags on.  San Jose was also playing on short rest, and they've got lots of injuries piled up: Couture, Barabanov, Lindblom, Rutta, and Zadina.  All of them would be playing for the main squad when healthy.

 

To paraphrase Tocchet, playoff teams don't make excuses.  They own the loss and know they need to be much better next game.

 

 

I think he does a lot more right than wrong but he still does plenty wrong.  That's what happens when you try and do everything!

That’s so not true and you know it Bob. Miller is the second leading scorer in the entire NHL. He’s also dominant in the faceoff circle. And he plays in every situation. He’s as much of a complete forward that you can find in the NHL. He is more dominant right now than the Edmonton bros. He is even more complete than Matthews. 
 

He makes mistakes like everyone else. But as of right now he is having his most dominant season ever and is literally a top 10 player in the entire NHL. 

[Goal_thecup]

32 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Back to ignore.

CIBT: Chastise, Ignore, and Ban that Troll.

Just fills up threads with people trying to rein in the crap, even when he/she/it is they are on Ignore.

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Dumb Nuck said:

The sky is falling, it’s the end of the world, the seasons over……..

 

……..oops, sorry, thought I was on the Oilers forum.

Who is saying that?

 

Oh right, no one

[stawns]

21 minutes ago, Kragar said:

You might be right, although it might be too small a sample size to suggest a trend. If it continues when they are rested, that changes things.  If they bounce back after staying at home for a while and practice in familiar territory, then we can all (mostly) go back to reveling in the potential for an awesome season.

 

The first paragraph could be turned the other way, too.  If someone wants to blow things up (not saying you are pushing that far, it's just an example) because of the lousy play lately, ignoring the reality of the schedule grind (for instance), it hurts the discussions too. Just like any other discussion, if someone just wants to trumpet their position without considering any other input, it's pointless to go further.

 

For a PGT, it's all valid.  Teams get screwed by the refs (calls could have gone better for us last night... I wonder if it was Sandlak trying too hard to be "objective") to some degree or another. Sometimes those teams win and the ref flaws are more quickly forgotten, but if they lose, the bad calls sting.

 

Most times, good teams can weather those kinds of problems. But not always. Maybe we need more personnel changes. Consensus here is pretty much Beau needs to go, and we need D. Not an easy deal to make, especially with Beau's production lacking, and we can all imagine the outcry when/if a move costs us our 1st.

 

I don't get too much involved in trade discussions, as I don't have the bandwidth to focus on other players so much (even less for prospects) and so my opinions are less informed than is good for discussion. I just have to trust PA and all. They've done pretty well so far.

Pushing that far?  I'm on the complete opposite end of that spectrum.......I don't want them to make any inee jerk move that will cost a 1st or a top prospect.  I'd rather they work their way through this season, get playoff experience and improve in the off season.

 

I like this team and I like the part they're on.........my disagreement is where they are on that path.  

[Gawdzukes]

37 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

The other take?

 

"Or course there will be all those insecure fans who immediately panic when the team looks tired, depleted and beat up. Rather than exercising patience"

 

I find a happy medium to be the best. You've got to exercise patience at times but you also can't let it slide to far if things do need to be corrected. I find being critical and always trying to get better more beneficial than standing pat and hoping things go your way.

 

I'm not panicked but you can't let your focus and desire to get better go by the wayside in this league or you'll quickly get left behind.

 

[Rip The Mesh]

Look! We won a prize!  Well Quinn did. 

 

[Goal_thecup]

35 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

The other take?

 

"Or course there will be all those insecure fans who immediately panic when the team looks tired, depleted and beat up. Rather than exercising patience"

This poster is full of insults all the time; can't get through a post without insulting someone or something.

Insecurity much?  Gawdzukes is thy name.

 

Had them on Iggy for years, but people keep quoting them so I see bull crap like this: Of course there will be all those insecure fans that don't want to discuss any shortcomings the team may have.

This comment is directed at posters like me that do not want to look at useless posts like this, especially when they are insulting.

Please CIBT.

[Miss Korea]

12 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

That’s so not true and you know it Bob. Miller is the second leading scorer in the entire NHL. He’s also dominant in the faceoff circle. And he plays in every situation. He’s as much of a complete forward that you can find in the NHL. He is more dominant right now than the Edmonton bros. He is even more complete than Matthews. 
 

He makes mistakes like everyone else. But as of right now he is having his most dominant season ever and is literally a top 10 player in the entire NHL. 

 

I don't care about Edmonton or Toronto.  Fuck 'em.

 

Miller is good.  Just... no more slap shots please.  One-timers are fine.  But no slappers.  It's a dead art.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

3 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Vegas won the Cup last year. They can do what they want. 

No lol

[-dlc-]

51 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Most sports fans would be concerned when their team looks tired, depleted and beat up.  Those issues typically compound as the campaign drags on.  San Jose was also playing on short rest, and they've got lots of injuries piled up: Couture, Barabanov, Lindblom, Rutta, and Zadina.  All of them would be playing for the main squad when healthy.

 

To paraphrase Tocchet, playoff teams don't make excuses.  They own the loss and know they need to be much better next game.

 

 

I think he does a lot more right than wrong but he still does plenty wrong.  That's what happens when you try and do everything!

As a long time (my entire life) sports fan, I've learned to take it all in stride.

 

My Lions lost 6 of the first 7 games to start the season in 2011 and most gave up on them. I saw that they had a team worth getting behind and were better than their record....and scooped up tickets to the WF and Grey Cup (that we won).

 

It ain't over till it's over is a lesson some need to learn.

 

Good teams don't make excuses but there's something else they don't do...dwell on the past. They put games behind them and face forward...onto the next. That's a lesson well learned too.

 

The negativity, at times, just swells around here and it's not fun. It's ok to be critical but it's also ok to be hopeful. And the team's given us reason to be. It's very much a life is what you make it deal.

 

Anyhow, cheers. We can all do it differently and that's what makes it a lively place to discuss things. But I won't ever apologize for 100% backing my team....through thick and thin. And don't kid yourself, I know a lot more about sports than most here give me credit for (because I'm a woman who obviously just waves pompoms).

[TheGuardian]

44 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

If you try to predict the future based on the past it's basically called generalized anxiety. I know because I have it and have worked hard on it. Along with the "what abouts" are the "what if's" (which is how GA is pinpointed).

Just a life point here, failing to learn from the past results in failing in the future. The past does teach us how to deal with the future events.

"What if's" can be expressions of hope or despair. "What about ?" Is the opportunity to explore other options and not get trapped in stasis or one way of thinking, this is done in all schools to learn. Sometimes learn from our mistakes.

The Canucks management method is they don't want the "What about ?" They want fans to forget the past except for what they want you to remember sticking fans in stasis. They want every day to be brand new without the baggage of their past mistakes but will remind all about their successes. Manipulation can happen if only "What ifs" are supplied by the team. 

Way too much that can be said of putting the blinders on.

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

I disagree........I'm reacting to a return to a  style of play we've seen from this team consistently over the last 2.5 years.  And no one is hitting the panic button, just trying to have objective discussions with other Canuck fans without the getting shouted down for seeing things a little more objectively from fans who are obviously a little insecure about their team

Well said and a good point. They were winning at the end of the last two seasons, more than now but ....This time they did it backwards and it might be enough to make the show. BUT they have only won 4 of the last 9 games and one of those was in OT. So hardly a panic at all and barely a concern because they haven't achieved anything yet, the season isn't over. But it is a better start than some of the past years

1 hour ago, Blue said:

I still contend that we are getting a little greedy and unappreciative of what we do have when healthy. 

 

How many other teams have a far better D than us now ..? Honest question. I don't know 

Lots of teams have superior overall better defence but Vancouver has had the hockey gods gift them with Luongo, Schnider, Miller (that was unexpected), Markstrom and now Demko. There is another supposedly great one in the farm. Hughes is really playing more of a rover.

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

Not very, I can't emphasize how much the Canucks still have to prove after the past decade or so. A hot start is great and this season has been a step forward, but they need to learn to put things together consistently, injuries and tough schedules or not. Our travel is worse but every other team has to deal with these things too to some degree.

 

They also need to shed cap and have most of their contracts be good value.

 

It's a stepping stone season, it's why I hope management is hesitant to make any large moves that don't have longer term roster impacts. I want to retain our assets if possible, particular high picks. 

 

Maybe after making the playoffs a few season they can start thinking about being contenders, but not til then. Most teams have to beat their heads against playoff walls before even getting a sniff at a conference final, let alone a cup final. Lots left to prove, lots for management to sort out.

 

It's been a better start then the past couple seasons, take that for what it is.

OH NO! A poster that considers the future and leans on the past for experience. Must be a tin hat guy!  So many will break their ankles falling off the wagon. I might strain my back getting on but then I might not get on all the way either.

50+ years of Canucks.

55 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

The other take?

 

"Or course there will be all those insecure fans who immediately panic when the team looks tired, depleted and beat up. Rather than exercising patience"

Patience? PATIENCE!!!!! 

Hardly any panic when the team sets up the future the way they have. "The young team" has two regular NHL players under 25 on it. Just encumbered the cap for 8 years with a nonsensical buyout of OEL which will cost more to do and last longer than if they had attached a 2nd and later round picks or two, which they have used before to increase cap space, when one of the key players isn't signing what could be up to 12+ million per year contract to commit to the future, mind you I wouldn't commit to 600+ games based on 22 games results either if my main goal as stated a few times was to playing of a winning team and playoffs.

 

Depleted and beat up, you think this is the first time most fans haven't seen this before? It is not panic, it is resolution of the past coming back AGAIN to haunt the market. To seeing once again the outcome of too much hope being squashed like a bug. Then being told it was good!

 

50+ years of Patience, 50+  years of failure. In truth not ALL 50 but all those 12 year and now 16 year gaps for one shot. How many times does a donkey need to be strapped before it learns? Even a chicken can learn. Now if every person put 15% of their money on the team I am sure the word patience would be a swear word.

 

IMO the team is doing as expected, started off great but now is coming back to earth. I think they will win their next couple of games they certainly were not going to lose them all. Anaheim losers of their last five games and Vegas in the 2nd of two nights.

Edited November 26, 2023 by TheGuardian

[Gawdzukes]

44 minutes ago, DrJockitch said:

Miller has made huge adjustments over the last year. 
Do emotions get the best of him sometimes yeah. Does he respond to frustration a little more negatively than would like at times, again yeah sometimes. 
‘But no player is perfect and he has improved leaps and bounds over even a year or two ago. If he is showing no emotion and going about his business he is Bo. 

 

I haven't seen JT's attention to detail and playing the right way better than it's been for this entire season. My hats off to him for buying in to playing the right way. The last couple games I've seen him try to deke a guy out at our blue line when he's the last man which is a no-no, but with his team first attitude and complete game this year he's earned a couple passes. I've always thought JT was a very good player but his cheating offensively and attitude held him back from being great. That's all changed this year so far. He's undoubtedly one of the best players in the game right now and I sure hope he keeps it up. He just has to keep trusting the process and not start doing to much himself.

[Goal_thecup]

17 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Look! We won a prize!  Well Quinn did. 

 

Unstoppable:  Mr. Hughes is.

"That's a small body over there gentlemen."

But WOW!  What a body; and an even better brain.

Perhaps the best brain in the league.

[Ghostsof1915]

It's an 82 game season.

It's a marathon, not a sprint.

Getting lots of wins to start just gives you better odds to make the playoffs.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

4 hours ago, DeNiro said:

Vegas lost to the Coyotes last night. That’s a team they should beat. Guess the Knights aren’t a very good team either?

 

People need to stop desperately trying to draw conclusions after every game it’s ridiculous. 
 

 

 

^ THIS!

 

Thank you. 

 

Ive seen many " top " teams hit stretches of little to no offense and lose more than win lately. Hello Vegas.

 

There is always elements of the team's game or players specifically not doing the right things. Injuries and an 82 game schedule determine this for every team.

 

Passionate fan base but very disappointing to see how many turn on the team or run with narratives or ideas like maybe the team actually sucks and is the exact same as last year or two years ago. Finding and reaching.

 

Could cheer for your team, not be bothered that a player had a good game because he was part of the Canucks losing team and got media attention for it ffs.

 

We all know Petey is elite but something is really limiting him right now which is very much contributing to 5v5 less than ideal production 110%. We should also realize he's not going to provide quotes as to his situation, we all get hes battling something.

 

Someone wanted to hear from Miller why he didnt score. Are you fucking kidding? He has produced oh I dont know near or literally at the top of the league in the first quarter of the season. Miller how dare he not score.

 

Come on guys long season, overall the team has a very high success rate vs lesssr teams and has overall.

 

 

[-dlc-]

6 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

Unstoppable:  Mr. Hughes is.

"That's a small body over there gentlemen."

But WOW!  What a body; and an even better brain.

Perhaps the best brain in the league.

The thing that really stands out to me is his calmness....even when it's getting hectic out there. He never looks rushed or panicked...he just takes it all in stride and uses smooth agility and speed to .... elude everyone out there. It's quite amazing...we're so lucky to have him.

[RupertKBD]

I'm not pressing the panic button yet, but as I said earlier, the lack of 5 on 5 scoring lately is concerning.

 

The one thing I'll say about this team is that they haven't gone on a losing streak.....yet....That's a positive for sure, but they have a tough stretch of opponents coming up (thankfully mostly at home).....

 

If they lose a few in a row, or even come out of the homestand sub .500, I think PA might have to think about making some kind of move.

[Gawdzukes]

50 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

Most sports fans would be concerned when their team looks tired, depleted and beat up.  Those issues typically compound as the campaign drags on.  San Jose was also playing on short rest, and they've got lots of injuries piled up: Couture, Barabanov, Lindblom, Rutta, and Zadina.  All of them would be playing for the main squad when healthy.

 

To paraphrase Tocchet, playoff teams don't make excuses.  They own the loss and know they need to be much better next game.

 

 

I think he does a lot more right than wrong but he still does plenty wrong.  That's what happens when you try and do everything!

 

Nice points. The reality of hockey and sports in general is very different from most jobs. It's not like if you're a painter who is painting a school and if you show up on time and in good condition you will likely do your job with good results without much problems or concerns. In sports unless you're in first place overall and just roiling over the competition there should be an element of worry and concern across the whole team with a focus on getting better.

 

Professional sports is not easy physically and can be even tougher mentally. You need to be able to exist in a climate where there is constant and healthy concern and consternation, otherwise you're not doing it properly.

 

So yeah, the proper stance would be to show some concern after the last stretch of games. I completely agree with Tocchet, you need to accept when you haven't done the job and focus on getting it right in the future. That doesn't make you some Debbie Downer or something, it just makes you engaged in the process.

[-dlc-]

23 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Nice points. The reality of hockey and sports in general is very different from most jobs. It's not like if you're a painter who is painting a school and if you show up on time and in good condition you will likely do your job with good results without much problems or concerns. In sports unless you're in first place overall and just roiling over the competition there should be an element of worry and concern across the whole team with a focus on getting better.

 

Professional sports is not easy physically and can be even tougher mentally. You need to be able to exist in a climate where there is constant and healthy concern and consternation, otherwise you're not doing it properly.

 

So yeah, the proper stance would be to show some concern after the last stretch of games. I completely agree with Tocchet, you need to accept when you haven't done the job and focus on getting it right in the future. That doesn't make you some Debbie Downer or something, it just makes you engaged in the process.

For the team, sure.

 

For the fans? Has no impact on things for us to worry and fuss...we're merely passengers on this ride. Sure, a "discussion" board but it allows for both sides and those supporting the team are not blind and stupid as some would make us out to be.

 

That's mostly my point...I'm quite sure this team, with its past history, understands the magnitude of not letting it slip away. We're not any smarter than they are. They're making strides and it's toughest when they ARE tired and depleted. Those things factor in and they're not invincible, but they have to work on finding ways to offset that (as Tocc's said...through angles, etc.). 

 

I believe some home games will be a better litmus test than a road trip with back to backs where Petey (and likely Miller) are not 100%. But some jump straight to "we're not there yet". We're a quarter of a way through the season...so we're certainly not "there yet" in regard to deciding on this team or ripping them up.

 

The goalposts change...it was "see how they are after 10 games" (excellent, but sloughed off as "easy")

Then...wait until they have some issues and are on a road trip on a back to back to determine things on one "should win" game and showing some fatigue and sloppiness.

 

Yes...they haven't looked stellar in the past while but they're still just fine and will show us if they're learning from their mistakes and how to beat the scheduling symptoms.

[4petesake]

51 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I don't care about Edmonton or Toronto.  Fuck 'em.

 

Miller is good.  Just... no more slap shots please.  One-timers are fine.  But no slappers.  It's a dead art.

I value your opinion Bob but I think I’m going to defer shot selection to the 4th leading goal scorer in the NHL on this one.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We aren’t playing the same style of hockey from the last 2.5 years. We have new coaches with completely different systems. And we have different players on the ice as well. 
 

Just because we lose doesn’t mean we are falling back to our “old” ways. We aren’t playing pond hockey like last year. And we are scoring at a higher clip than at any time since the Sedins were around. 
 

We are the highest scoring team in the NHL. And our goal differential is #1 in the league. It’s not even close actually. 
 

We actually dominated the 3rd period last night. We should have won the game. But we let in a couple of crappy goals. We were a tired team playing our second game in two nights on the road. 

 

I'm betting Hronek wishes he had those 5 seconds back. Lack of concentration on that one.

 

45 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

This poster is full of insults all the time; can't get through a post without insulting someone or something.

Insecurity much?  Gawdzukes is thy name.

 

Had them on Iggy for years, but people keep quoting them so I see bull crap like this: Of course there will be all those insecure fans that don't want to discuss any shortcomings the team may have.

This comment is directed at posters like me that do not want to look at useless posts like this, especially when they are insulting.

Please CIBT.

 

Get lost man. It's hard to have an honest conversation with people like you. I didn't insult anyone and I have been very civil and accepting with my comments in this conversation. Go back and read them. It's BS that you have to go combing through posts to try and start a fight. Just like the PGT yesterday you're out of line. I was simply agreeing with another poster (which didn't involve you at all) and posting my viewpoint, which you should be allowed to do without people personally attacking you.

[-dlc-]

Re: the slapshot

 

I believe that the more weapons you have in your arsenal, the better. Now sure, if that's all JT was doing.....predictable and ineffective. But it mixes it up. 

 

Sure, it takes time to load up but it also can do some damage, especially when lanes aren't being opened up. Blast guys out of the way. Have them limp off the ice...better for us.

 

One timers, when they miss, tend to zing around the boards and out a lot. Maybe slapshots are slower releases but maybe the aim's a bit better if they're tee'd up first?

 

I believe the slapshot still has a place in hockey because not many really want to stand in front of one. And if they're rare, it keeps them guessing.

 

JT seems to have it figured out...I'm not worried about it.