(PGT) Canucks at Sharks

[Provost]

It is absolutely fair to be worried about a team being tired and beat up this early in the season.  They had a hot start and have been playing .500 hockey since and haven't faced many tough opponents.

Guess what makes you tired and beat up... the playoffs.  It is the hardest trophy to win in all of sports, what the players are feeling now is nothing compared with what a long playoff run is like.

Does it mean time to panic, not yet.  It does mean there is pressure on management to see if they can take some pressure off.  Hughes and Hronek aren't going to be less tired having to play close to 30 minutes a game because of other injuries on D.  Petterson isn't going to heal up unless some bottom six guys can really step in and make games easier on our top players.  

With that in mind, the way we won in Seattle is more heartening than the way we lost in San Jose is disheartening.  It was other players carrying the load, and the lead meant  the top guys got to play significantly fewer minutes.  That adds up over a season.

[Dr. Crossbar]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We aren’t playing the same style of hockey from the last 2.5 years. We have new coaches with completely different systems. And we have different players on the ice as well. 
 

Just because we lose doesn’t mean we are falling back to our “old” ways. We aren’t playing pond hockey like last year. And we are scoring at a higher clip than at any time since the Sedins were around. 
 

We are the highest scoring team in the NHL. And our goal differential is #1 in the league. It’s not even close actually. 
 

We actually dominated the 3rd period last night. We should have won the game. But we let in a couple of crappy goals. We were a tired team playing our second game in two nights on the road. 

 

THIS ∆∆∆∆

 

Bravo! I've been saying the same thing. Excellent post again, Elias. 

 

Here's where two years ago is relevant ...

 

Remember a couple years ago when we were blowing leads and consistently imploding in the 3rd early in the season between Oct and Dec. Well, the team learned from those, course corrected, and went on that great improbable run. 

 

The coaching and staff change happened last year. We just need to focus on our game and correcting mistakes. 

[Barn Burner]

7 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Re: the slapshot

 

I believe that the more weapons you have in your arsenal, the better. Now sure, if that's all JT was doing.....predictable and ineffective. But it mixes it up. 

 

Sure, it takes time to load up but it also can do some damage, especially when lanes aren't being opened up. Blast guys out of the way. Have them limp off the ice...better for us.

 

I believe the slapshot still has a place in hockey because not many really want to stand in front of one.

 

JT seems to have it figured out...I'm not worried about it.

A perfect, recent example is Hronek's first goal with that 103 mph slapper. 

 

Not many would want to get in the way of that, and the goalie didn't have a hope in hell stopping that sucker. 

 

In most instances, because you only have milliseconds to get a shot off, a one-timer is the best option. 

 

But, like you say, having more weapons in your arsenal, (should be obvious) equips the player with multiple options. Duh? 

[Jaimito]

 

 

 

[JayDangles]

3 hours ago, -dlc- said:

Do you factor in the human element at all?

 

Schedules, injuries, etc.? yes, they're playing .500 hockey right now but that happens at times....they've given themselves a bit of a cushion and can (will) adjust. Road trip wasn't a complete wash...playing back to backs in different cities isn't as easy as some here would pencil it in.

 

Not excuses - things that deplete a team at times. No team just sails through unscathed and without hitting a few bumps along the road. Petey being off is huge for this team but that won't last forever.

 

You were writing the team off in October but I think that's on you, not them. People trying to somehow prove their agenda are premature in doing so. Patience, then we'll really see where we're at. This team hasn't been a write off but sure, some here think we're not there yet. I think they have time to prove that they are. It could go either way and the past has jaded some so they just throw in the towel. I'm glad the team doesn't.

I definitely wasn't writing the team off in October.

As for human element, sure there are lots of different factors to consider when evaluating a team or individual performance.

However...

If I'm being honest and I'm not letting my fan bias influence game analysis, I would say this team isn't playing like a .500 team. 

The games we are winning we are barely winning, and it could be argued we shouldn't be winning. We have scored the last 4/5 goals with a man advantage. 

We quickly forget that we were outshot and outchanced in games we won. 

Of course I love the wins, and I try not to be negative when they lose, but in reality the Colorado game is the only game where they put in a good effort and lost. The other games they lost, it's because they deserved to lose. They were out worked, they made bone head plays, they were hemmed in their zone etc.

I agree the team will go through stints of .500 hockey, but I'm seeing a team that's playing .300-.400 hockey, and mostly against opponents they should be fired up to play. 

I'm just concerned is all, and I don't think focusing on the positives is going to get them going again, and I don't believe in hope as a strategy.

[Dr. Crossbar]

4 minutes ago, Barn Burner said:

A perfect, recent example is Hronek's first goal with that 103 mph slapper. 

 

Not many would want to get in the way of that, and the goalie didn't have a hope in hell stopping that sucker. 

 

In most instances, because you only have milliseconds to get a shot off, a one-timer is the best option. 

 

But, like you say, having more weapons in your arsenal, (should be obvious) equips the player with multiple options. Duh? 

 

We're starting to see him shoot more. Crazy to think he's been so successful to date without that aspect to his game.

[Frozen Water Walker]

10 hours ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

I'll give them a pass, this schedule has been brutal, so many b2bs and 3 in 4s with a lot of movement and travel is pretty unfair. Two days off now then a little home-stretch is exactly what we need. We were 0.500 during a horrendous bit of travel. If we beat Vegas then none of these losses matter but I don't see it right now.

 

Our stars have cooled off and we're so reliant on them to be honest. Our defence is still bringing it offensively but defensively we're getting a bit loose. Goaltending is becoming average at times, and most importantly Petey looks like a shadow with 1 assist in his last 4 games.

 

We need to get back to basics, hopefully some good training sessions at home on the defensive side similar to what we must have done in the off-season to tighten things up.

That's a good call but to be honest back to the basics is what Petey is doing, the strong defensive plan, and now really starting to hit, I like it.

 

I like it more when he brings the offence but no one is perfect, and this isnthe NHL.

[Barn Burner]

1 minute ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

We're starting to see him shoot more. Crazy to think he's been so successful to date without that aspect to his game.

What a stroke of luck? Genius? putting him on the PP. 

 

He's playing exceptionally well to begin with, and along with the rest of the guys, that is, and can be an even more lethal PP. 

[-dlc-]

17 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I definitely wasn't writing the team off in October.

As for human element, sure there are lots of different factors to consider when evaluating a team or individual performance.

However...

If I'm being honest and I'm not letting my fan bias influence game analysis, I would say this team isn't playing like a .500 team. 

The games we are winning we are barely winning, and it could be argued we shouldn't be winning. We have scored the last 4/5 goals with a man advantage. 

We quickly forget that we were outshot and outchanced in games we won. 

Of course I love the wins, and I try not to be negative when they lose, but in reality the Colorado game is the only game where they put in a good effort and lost. The other games they lost, it's because they deserved to lose. They were out worked, they made bone head plays, they were hemmed in their zone etc.

I agree the team will go through stints of .500 hockey, but I'm seeing a team that's playing .300-.400 hockey, and mostly against opponents they should be fired up to play. 

I'm just concerned is all, and I don't think focusing on the positives is going to get them going again, and I don't believe in hope as a strategy.

I question your qualifications on game analysis though. We're all just fans and seeing things from that perspective. We don't even know the behind the scenes stuff....what's with Petey? Kuz? So in order to analyze things you need all the information and none of us has that. We're watching games unfold and some expect too much and, perhaps, too little from the team. Depends on where you set the bar for them. I haven't even done that yet because I feel it's early on and they're still finding their groove. A bit better than I maybe expected.

 

And what you saw maybe was influenced by your bias against this year's team. You looked past the team this year early on to focus on 2-3 years down the road. So, in my opinion, that's writing the team off (this year) and setting an agenda that supports that. This was October 27:

 

Quote

Honestly we need to just let this season ride, and see where we are at at the TDL. We may not need to move a 1st just yet. Salary comes off the books end of year. We are still 2-3 years out IMHO, so of we improve just a bit each year, in 2 year you go all in a trade a 1st. 

You're still working on a team in progress but Rick and the boys are working on this year. And showing us that they have some things in place that could surprise some people. When you have the likes of Hughes, Demko, Petey and Miller....that's good solid footing.

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

For the team, sure.

 

For the fans? Has no impact on things for us to worry and fuss...we're merely passengers on this ride. Sure, a "discussion" board but it allows for both sides and those supporting the team are not blind and stupid as some would make us out to be.

 

That's mostly my point...I'm quite sure this team, with its past history, understands the magnitude of not letting it slip away. We're not any smarter than they are. They're making strides and it's toughest when they ARE tired and depleted. Those things factor in and they're not invincible, but they have to work on finding ways to offset that (as Tocc's said...through angles, etc.). 

 

I believe some home games will be a better litmus test than a road trip with back to backs where Petey (and likely Miller) are not 100%. But some jump straight to "we're not there yet". We're a quarter of a way through the season...so we're certainly not "there yet" in regard to deciding on this team or ripping them up.

 

Good points and very fair. Fans should be allowed to engage in a way that best makes them enjoy the experience. For me it's about problem solving. I am most happy constantly trying to find ways to make the team better and I'm rarely content with where we are, unless it's first place overall. That's just the way sports have evolved for me. It's like having a really tough job in my opinion. You seem to really enjoy feeling close to the players and always supporting them, no matter the circumstances. That's awesome!

 

One thing I absolutely 100% agree with you on is that this team has deserved some credit and leeway for the way they have played so far. These next games will be important and we'll see how they deal with this bit of adversity. I am no where near ripping this team up. We've had a great start and should be very happy considering where we were last year at this point.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[-dlc-]

Honestly, this almost gets comical to me. I mean, all that we share here are opinions and we know what they're like (everybody's got one). Yet:

 

Those constantly "worried" about the team and injecting their qualified (often negative) opinion in (to help the team because the coaches clearly don't get it) = good analysis, played the game, experienced, objective

 

Those having fun watching the season unfold and taking it all in stride: biased, whining, insecure, "marry me" poster carrying types

 

Not sure who's doing it right/wrong here.

 

We're all on the same plane though....no one's better/worse. Smarter than the rest. You don't have to have played the game to know the game. Some may know the x's and o's better...but don't really understand the human dynamics or it all. You don't have to analyze the game to enjoy it. But one thing's for sure....this team has made huge strides to open the season over last year's start and they sit in a position that deserves SOME recognition and support. Despite how they got here and who they went through. Even IF it's not the prettiest and has been a grind at times. I think if you analyze the overall situation without bias (or team history coming into play), you'll see that all teams will have great games and some that aren't picture perfect. But gathering the points is what counts in the end and any team making the playoffs has a shot at them. For the millionth time: goaltending, overall health and injury status, momentum, coaching/strategy, officiating all come into play. 

 

Sometimes the very best teams fall flat on their faces. Sometimes Cinderella stories unfold. It's what  makes sports great....that you just never really know. Sure, you can predict and play the odds...but nothing on paper is guaranteed.

[420Fish]

Toil over your grief from a single game all you want. These problems and challenges are way better than the ones from a season ago. Better stakes. Greater expectations. I'm invested this year.

[Miss Korea]

54 minutes ago, 4petesake said:

I value your opinion Bob but I think I’m going to defer shot selection to the 4th leading goal scorer in the NHL on this one.

 

I literally cannot recall a single instance where J.T. Miller walked in and scored off a slap shot.  He has scored a lot of goals for us in almost every imaginable way.  Wrister, snap, one-timer, forehand deke, backhand deke, tip-in, you name it.  But never off a slap shot.

 

Hard to think of many instances a Canuck has scored that way - at least recently.  Hronek got one like that the other day in Seattle, right?

[Frozen Water Walker]

5 hours ago, spook007 said:

Holy Batman an overreaction to a defeat (narrow)...

 

What are folks expected from back to back games with travel in between?

 

This is the 4th back to back in the first 22 games, and they have at 2 points in each of these games (3points in the only back to back without travelling).

 

Are folks actually expecting us to go through the season unbeaten? Yes its Sharks and they suck just now, get over it...

This team is in general miles better that what we have seen recently... 

KA POW

[Joe King]

1 hour ago, Provost said:

Guess what makes you tired and beat up... the playoffs.  It is the hardest trophy to win in all of sports, what the players are feeling now is nothing compared with what a long playoff run is like.
 

Playoffs are a different beast for sure. But unlike the regular season play teams are more evenly rested for the most part. During the season you may get a game where one team has played 3 games in 4 nights with travel,while the opposing has had more rest and practice time. I think our team has done a lot of back to backs with travel and several time zones. I'm not worried just yet.

[4petesake]

7 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I literally cannot recall a single instance where J.T. Miller walked in and scored off a slap shot.  He has scored a lot of goals for us in almost every imaginable way.  Wrister, snap, one-timer, forehand deke, backhand deke, tip-in, you name it.  But never off a slap shot.

 

Hard to think of many instances a Canuck has scored that way - at least recently.  Hronek got one like that the other day in Seattle, right?

 

He definitely has that wicked wrister as maybe his best shot and offhand I can’t recall a slapshot goal from him either. I don’t know, maybe he thought he was getting a little predictable and wanted to change it up? Anyways, he knows what his bread & butter is so I doubt we’ll see his slapper too often.

 

Hronek’s bomb was a beautiful sight and we’ve seen a few from Petey like that, though not recently. 

[-dlc-]

25 minutes ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I literally cannot recall a single instance where J.T. Miller walked in and scored off a slap shot.  He has scored a lot of goals for us in almost every imaginable way.  Wrister, snap, one-timer, forehand deke, backhand deke, tip-in, you name it.  But never off a slap shot.

 

Hard to think of many instances a Canuck has scored that way - at least recently.  Hronek got one like that the other day in Seattle, right?

To be honest, there's little difference in a slapshot and a one timer.....except maybe you tee the puck up for a slapshot rather than just being ready to blast one off. Sometimes it happens....the puck's on its edge or bouncing a bit so you settle it. 

 

JT Miller's doing just fine regardless of if you like his preferred method of shooting or not. Seems to be working for him.

 

I think you're stuck on the name "slapshot" and it's really not a huge point of contention. Deflection maybe.

 

If that's your beef with JT (that he took a slapshot), you're looking too hard for something that's not there. Dissecting his game to find something/anything.

[Wing]

We don't have any more back to back or 3 games in 4 nights stretches until January. I'm surprised there are only 2 more sets of back to back games for the rest of the season. Hopefully more rest will give some guys to recover better. I am legit worry about Petey now because it's obvious that something is bothering him. I wonder if he's able to get back to 90-100% while playing every game. 

[coolboarder]

15 hours ago, stawns said:

Still a valid excuse.  I have looked at the other team schedule, no team has endure the three 3 games in 4 nights type of schedule in less than 16 days than the Canucks this early and even the whole season, while comparing other schedule and the Canucks is the only team that has this type of schedule.  Not much you can do but to go through it.    Next tough stretch is in February where they will go through two 3rd games in 4 nights in less than 15 days.  Many other teams go similar with two three games in 4 nights but Canucks has the only one that has 3 three games in 4 nights in two weeks.

[Bob Long]

6 hours ago, stawns said:

Well Bo is gone, but the same issues are still there 

 

I don't see how. Different systems, different lines, far superior coaching. Maybe superficially "the same" on the odd mistake,  but all teams have issues regardless. 

[Bob Long]

4 hours ago, RupertKBD said:

 It was also nice to see Lafferty fly in there to take on Benning when he was gooning on Petey....

 

yup. Pre-tocc and Bo trade we had passengers. Now they look more like a team. 

[-dlc-]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

I don't see how. Different systems, different lines, far superior coaching. Maybe superficially "the same" on the odd mistake,  but all teams have issues regardless. 

Still pining over JT staying and Bo going.

 

Good points, Bob.

 

Different results/situation this year. Team this year is tied for 2nd in the West.

 

Last year this time?  We sat in 12th place.

 

Also: last night with the Petey deal? Guys flew in there to have his back. Last year, Bo skated off the ice at times when teammates were "engaged". Loved Bo, but hated that part.

 

Anyone seeing things as "same ol" is missing a lot.

[Dr. Crossbar]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

yup. Pre-tocc and Bo trade we had passengers. Now they look more like a team. 

 

We have winners behind the scenes. Big step forward in cultural change. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

45 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

this almost gets comical to me

 

It's not almost for me. It is.

[Strawbone]

Who knew losing to the Sharks would trigger an existential crisis on the forum! Feels a bit like that at least lol. 
 

Sharks are much improved and played hard, and I don’t think the Canucks are the dominant 115 point team that they played like for the first part of the season, so that loss wasn’t too concerning. 

 

i still think they are good enough to win more than they lose over the rest of the season and make the playoffs. But to be a dominant team, a few more roster moves are needed, that’s pretty clear, and I’m confident the next couple of years will see the Canucks getting better and better.