(PGT) Canucks at Sharks

[-dlc-]

13 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Still a valid excuse.  I have looked at the other team schedule, no team has endure the three 3 games in 4 nights type of schedule in less than 16 days than the Canucks this early and even the whole season, while comparing other schedule and the Canucks is the only team that has this type of schedule.  Not much you can do but to go through it.    Next tough stretch is in February where they will go through two 3rd games in 4 nights in less than 15 days.  Many other teams go similar with two three games in 4 nights but Canucks has the only one that has 3 three games in 4 nights in two weeks.

Yet excuses are offered for the ref's shitty performances.

 

Double standards are applied.

 

"Game's fast"

"They're doing their best"

"Tough job"

"Can't see everything" (anything)

 

Hmmmm, what makes refs different? They're all human beings subject to things that can hamper their performance. Yet some here feel like the team should be supermen and immune to things like fatigue and injury in a "fast moving" game that is "hard".

[spook007]

3 minutes ago, coolboarder said:

Still a valid excuse.  I have looked at the other team schedule, no team has endure the three 3 games in 4 nights type of schedule in less than 16 days than the Canucks this early and even the whole season, while comparing other schedule and the Canucks is the only team that has this type of schedule.  Not much you can do but to go through it.    Next tough stretch is in February where they will go through two 3rd games in 4 nights in less than 15 days.  Many other teams go similar with two three games in 4 nights but Canucks has the only one that has 3 three games in 4 nights in two weeks.

Yep... and they still got at least 2 points out of each of the 4 double headers they've had to play.

The only double header that didn't include long distance travelling ie b2b home games they got 3 points in...

 

It's true they haven't totally played teams off the ice recently, but that happens in periods for most teams. They haven't been in this position in a long time, and it takes time and possible a change of mind set to turn up most games to win... But they are slowly getting there.

 

[coolboarder]

Just now, -dlc- said:

Yet excuses are offered for the ref's shitty performances.

 

Double standards are applied.

 

"Game's fast"

"They're doing their best"

"Tough job"

 

I completely agree with you there.  Ref are supposed to apply the standard here and they are not up to the task for a while now.  Maybe it's time for NHL to remind the ref again to make sure that all is up to standard.  Too bad, the union wouldn't allow the firing or demotion unless being forced out by news on corruptions.  Maybe it's time to have a part-time ref and I'm sure that they would do better job of it than a full timer.  Even if the upper ups has the standard, the ref still have it's own bias and needs to be rooted out or assigned to different teams where they might be neutral toward them. 

[Frozen Water Walker]

4 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said:

Guess I watched a different game.  ---- https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/video/chaos-ensues-between-canucks-and-sharks-after-massive-blind-side-hit-on-pettersson/

Nice!

[TheGuardian]

1 hour ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

THIS ∆∆∆∆

 

Bravo! I've been saying the same thing. Excellent post again, Elias. 

 

Here's where two years ago is relevant ...

 

Remember a couple years ago when we were blowing leads and consistently imploding in the 3rd early in the season between Oct and Dec. Well, the team learned from those, course corrected, and went on that great improbable run. 

 

The coaching and staff change happened last year. We just need to focus on our game and correcting mistakes. 

Hmmm, highest scoring. Yup, okay, Playing up to five games more than a few, scoring 34 goals against 2 bottom feeders in 6 games winning 5. You know if Makar doesn't play as many games Hughes could be head of him!

 

Last year, Demko was hurt. The year before he was hurt as well but the team played better for Bruce, scoring more and winning more games without Demko at 100% than Tocchet did. Bruce also got Pettersson out of his funk, that funk that seems to be coming back.

 

What has changed in the clubhouse is called the Hawthorne effect. In the NHL they call it the coaching bump. Just goes to show how attitude makes a difference. Boudreau didn't win around 600 games without knowing a thing or two about coaching. For all that they have lots of points they played more games than some other teams and had more games against the worst two teams in the league on those dates.

 

Are they better than last year? Maybe even probably but if so not by much.

[-dlc-]

Excuses. French for facts.

[-dlc-]

Just now, TheGuardian said:

What has changed in the clubhouse is called the Hawthorne effect. In the NHL they call it the coaching bump.

Uh, changed since last year?

 

Out:

Bo

OEL

Schenn

Burroughs

Pearson

Stillman

Rathbone

McDermott

Lockwood

(etc?)

 

In:

Beau

Blueger

Lafferty

Suter

Cole

Friedman 

Hronek

Soucy 

DeSmith

 

A lot has changed, including the attitude....which has shifted to more JT physicality and less Bo spokesman. Loved Bo, but the truth hurts.

 

 

[coolboarder]

3 hours ago, Kragar said:

You might be right, although it might be too small a sample size to suggest a trend. If it continues when they are rested, that changes things.  If they bounce back after staying at home for a while and practice in familiar territory, then we can all (mostly) go back to reveling in the potential for an awesome season.

 

The first paragraph could be turned the other way, too.  If someone wants to blow things up (not saying you are pushing that far, it's just an example) because of the lousy play lately, ignoring the reality of the schedule grind (for instance), it hurts the discussions too. Just like any other discussion, if someone just wants to trumpet their position without considering any other input, it's pointless to go further.

 

For a PGT, it's all valid.  Teams get screwed by the refs (calls could have gone better for us last night... I wonder if it was Sandlak trying too hard to be "objective") to some degree or another. Sometimes those teams win and the ref flaws are more quickly forgotten, but if they lose, the bad calls sting.

 

Most times, good teams can weather those kinds of problems. But not always. Maybe we need more personnel changes. Consensus here is pretty much Beau needs to go, and we need D. Not an easy deal to make, especially with Beau's production lacking, and we can all imagine the outcry when/if a move costs us our 1st.

 

I don't get too much involved in trade discussions, as I don't have the bandwidth to focus on other players so much (even less for prospects) and so my opinions are less informed than is good for discussion. I just have to trust PA and all. They've done pretty well so far.

That is my pet peeve about the ref, trying to be objective.  News flash, all teams are trying to cheat their way so it's up to the ref to put to a stop and call it accordingly.  Most teams know game management and play like it accordingly and would try to cheat their way to snatch a point with a comeback undeservedly because entertainment is the flavor of the NHL nowadays.   Ref understood the concept of momentum and they shouldn't have the power to change that.  They must call a penalty regardless of the score and they shouldn't never be under the influence of changing the momentum, ever.   They still do it because NHL wants game management.  That is awful philosophy to have by upper ups. 

 

Penalty is a penalty and teams would stop doing that and try to play clean way and the game would be better for it.  My favorite season was 2010-11 except for the final, they called EVERYTHING and it worked, teams would try to keep it clean and test the ref patience and they weren't having it.   Not just the Canucks but every teams in the league enjoyed the benefit of no game management.  I don't ever recall fans complaining about this except for the Final where standard has completely changed due to Campbell's son being on the team.   Then I remember, they changed the standard the season after to compensate this and introduce this new concept: GAME MANAGEMENT!  Guess what, fans started to complain.  They stood their ground and didn't want this to happen again with changed standard in the Finals next season or they'd be under investigation.

[LillStrimma]

5 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

I believe the Oilers fans are currently in a state of yelling at their team and not cheering for them.  Local liquor sales on Jasper and Whyte Aves are... UP!

Yes, but I think both McDavid and some other low life used the words you used. 
 

In NHL every team is beatable and no team is a roll over team. In periods yeah but not the whole serie.

[spook007]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We aren’t playing the same style of hockey from the last 2.5 years. We have new coaches with completely different systems. And we have different players on the ice as well. 
 

Just because we lose doesn’t mean we are falling back to our “old” ways. We aren’t playing pond hockey like last year. And we are scoring at a higher clip than at any time since the Sedins were around. 
 

We are the highest scoring team in the NHL. And our goal differential is #1 in the league. It’s not even close actually. 
 

We actually dominated the 3rd period last night. We should have won the game. But we let in a couple of crappy goals. We were a tired team playing our second game in two nights on the road. 

 

THIS

How is this so hard to fathom? 

Lets see if they crap the bed once they start their home stand, but its surprising, how this team is being viewed in such negative views.

 

[DeNiro]

27 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

Excuses. French for facts.

I doubt any teams have travelled more or had more back to backs either.

 

People can say we’re making excuses all they want but the fact is a schedule like this will cause a team to wear down. Not to mention not be able to practice nearly as much as other teams.

 

We’ll see how those other teams do when they have to squeeze in 5 or 6 games into the schedule later on. My guess is they struggle the same way.

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by DeNiro

[MikeyD]

16 hours ago, stawns said:

 

How many times have we heard that in the last two weeks?  Tocchet says it after every loss (and some wins) and they keep coming up with the same effort.  

 

Now we'll see how good of a coach RT really is.  

I don't recall anybody saying this in the past 2 weeks. They've looked pretty average and for the first time for a period they looked like they had urgency. 

[coolboarder]

8 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I doubt any teams have travelled more or had more back to backs either.

 

People can say we’re making excuses all they want but the fact is a schedule like this will cause a team to wear down. Not to mention not be able to practice nearly as much as other teams.

 

We’ll see how those other teams do when they have to squeeze in 5 or 6 games into the schedule later on. My guess is they struggle the same way.

 

 

I hate the fact that it's early and they haven't had a chance to practice to work out their warts in their game and other teams would have their chance to eliminate their bad habits and the moment that they go in a rough stretch, they are in a far better habits and won't allow for bad habits to creep in due to muscle memory changing every 21 days from bad habits to a good habit.  That's the difference.  They may win one or two extra games during rough stretch than they would have been early in the season due to changed players in the offseason when trying to learn new system.  It is harder to create a new muscle memory if you are travelling with so many games early especially if you are new to the team or a new coach.

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

Still pining over JT staying and Bo going.

 

Good points, Bob.

 

Different results/situation this year. Team this year is tied for 2nd in the West.

 

Last year this time?  We sat in 12th place.

 

Also: last night with the Petey deal? Guys flew in there to have his back. Last year, Bo skated off the ice at times when teammates were "engaged". Loved Bo, but hated that part.

 

Anyone seeing things as "same ol" is missing a lot.

 

It really is a huge difference. Could we have had a better forecheck last night? Sure. But I wouldn't call it a structural issue or some problem thats lingering through 3 coaches.

[Gawdzukes]

2 hours ago, Dr. Crossbar said:

 

We're starting to see him shoot more. Crazy to think he's been so successful to date without that aspect to his game.

 

Absolutely. What a fricking great heavy and hard shot he has. An amazing compliment to Hughes. In my humble opinion one of the ingredients to becoming champs. The yin to Hughes Yang if you will. 

 

Not that Hughes shot isn't becoming more impressive every day because it's been a huge component to our success so far.

[Miss Korea]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

To be honest, there's little difference in a slapshot and a one timer.....except maybe you tee the puck up for a slapshot rather than just being ready to blast one off. Sometimes it happens....the puck's on its edge or bouncing a bit so you settle it. 

 

JT Miller's doing just fine regardless of if you like his preferred method of shooting or not. Seems to be working for him.

 

I think you're stuck on the name "slapshot" and it's really not a huge point of contention. Deflection maybe.

 

If that's your beef with JT (that he took a slapshot), you're looking too hard for something that's not there. Dissecting his game to find something/anything.

 

We are 12 pages into a post-game thread.  All of this is obviously nitpicking.  You were the one who orignally suggested Miller was injured.  I think he's fine.

 

I'll say it again - the slap shot is a dying art in hockey.  The average claps per game has gone from 7.11 (2011) to 3.73 (2022).  The one-timer is also on a massive decline.  Pettersson rarely fires it now.  Miller shoots in a hybrid style with his stick on the ground (something that Leon Draisaitl has turned into an art form).  The game has completely transformed and is faster than ever.  There is simply no time left for *most* players to just walk in and tee one up.  Even the best young defencemen (Hughes, Makar, Fox, McAvoy) avoid one-timers because they have no time or space, and because they can fire quick wristers with more power and precision than ever before.

 

Which brings us back to that late sequence last night, net empty.  Miller just walks in and it's easily blocked by the Shark defenders.  Comes to Miller again... rinse and repeat.  He did it three times in a row, and none of those shots went through.  It was poor shot selection and didn't do anything to spread the ice.  After that, they figured out that the Sharks were too high on the coverage and opened up the bumper.  Boeser roofed one.  Millsy almost roofed one but got too much on it.

 

Here is a good video on the current state of the slap shot:

 

 

Edited November 26, 2023 by Miss Korea

[Elias Pettersson]

55 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Hmmm, highest scoring. Yup, okay, Playing up to five games more than a few, scoring 34 goals against 2 bottom feeders in 6 games winning 5. You know if Makar doesn't play as many games Hughes could be head of him!

 

Last year, Demko was hurt. The year before he was hurt as well but the team played better for Bruce, scoring more and winning more games without Demko at 100% than Tocchet did. Bruce also got Pettersson out of his funk, that funk that seems to be coming back.

 

What has changed in the clubhouse is called the Hawthorne effect. In the NHL they call it the coaching bump. Just goes to show how attitude makes a difference. Boudreau didn't win around 600 games without knowing a thing or two about coaching. For all that they have lots of points they played more games than some other teams and had more games against the worst two teams in the league on those dates.

 

Are they better than last year? Maybe even probably but if so not by much.

So their success this year is due to a coaching bump and they are not much better than last year?  

 

Are you practicing writing satire for the Babylon Bee?

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, coolboarder said:

Still a valid excuse.  I have looked at the other team schedule, no team has endure the three 3 games in 4 nights type of schedule in less than 16 days than the Canucks this early and even the whole season, while comparing other schedule and the Canucks is the only team that has this type of schedule.  Not much you can do but to go through it.    Next tough stretch is in February where they will go through two 3rd games in 4 nights in less than 15 days.  Many other teams go similar with two three games in 4 nights but Canucks has the only one that has 3 three games in 4 nights in two weeks.

 

Not really though. If you break down the schedule other teams will go through the same thing during the year. It's no excuse unless of course you make it one. At the end of the year either you've handled the challenges thrown at you or you haven't. Simple as that.

 

A valid excuse is not "I'm too tired to play hockey". All teams go through tough stretches, it's how you navigate it that determines your success.

[-dlc-]

6 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Not really though. If you break down the schedule other teams will go through the same thing during the year. It's no excuse unless of course you make it one. At the end of the year either you've handled the challenges thrown at you or you haven't. Simple as that.

 

A valid excuse is not "I'm too tired to play hockey". All teams go through tough stretches, it's how you navigate it that determines your success.

It's not "I'm too tired to play".

 

Bodies do get depleted....it's not a mental attitude as much as a physical "hit the wall" deal.

 

Yes, other teams WILL go through it and we'll see, then, where we're at. Right now we're being told we "should" win games during a tough stretch of road games and back to backs. Will we remember this when they play or will they be given a free pass "because".

 

They're handling the challenge....they've put themselves in a position to have a bit of a cushion and be "ok" despite some fatigue and grinding. So that counts.

 

Point is, they're playing some teams that have more gas in the tank. Whatever, it'll even out in the end. And I bet we'll still be "ok".

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

Still pining over JT staying and Bo going.

 

Good points, Bob.

 

Different results/situation this year. Team this year is tied for 2nd in the West.

 

Last year this time?  We sat in 12th place.

 

Also: last night with the Petey deal? Guys flew in there to have his back. Last year, Bo skated off the ice at times when teammates were "engaged". Loved Bo, but hated that part.

 

Anyone seeing things as "same ol" is missing a lot.

 

Definitely a different vibe yesterday after that play. It took a half second to re-act but we wouldn't have backed Petey up the same way last year. Shows a different level of compete.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Gawdzukes]

8 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

It's not "I'm too tired to play".

 

Bodies do get depleted....it's not a mental attitude as much as a physical "hit the wall" deal.

 

Yes, other teams WILL go through it and we'll see, then, where we're at. Right now we're being told we "should" win games during a tough stretch of road games and back to backs. Will we remember this when they play or will they be given a free pass "because".

 

They're handling the challenge....they're put themselves in a spot to be "ok" despite some fatigue and grinding. 

 

Point is, they're playing some teams that have more gas in the tank. Whatever, it'll even out in the end. And I bet we'll still be "ok".

 

Whatever call it what you want. I'm never going to tell my team it's acceptable to lose because the schedule was too hard, but that's just me.

 

Any yeah, we'll be fine all teams go through attrition and have a hard time with the schedule. It's one of the things that make the NHL tough and determine how successful you are. It may be the reason you lost, because you weren't fit enough, but it's not a valid excuse.

Edited November 26, 2023 by Gawdzukes

[Miss Korea]

42 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Yes, but I think both McDavid and some other low life used the words you used. 
 

In NHL every team is beatable and no team is a roll over team. In periods yeah but not the whole serie.

 

At the time of the puck drop, the Sharks' leading scorer (Hertl) had the same amount of points as a player we just scratched (Kuzmenko).  This was David vs. Goliath.  We are offensive juggernauts and there is always a calculated expectation for better teams to defeat worse teams.  The better team doesn't always win.

[CRAZY_4_NAZZY]

 

once again, petey gets in the way of Benning and Glass

[spook007]

34 minutes ago, TheGuardian said:

Hmmm, highest scoring. Yup, okay, Playing up to five games more than a few, scoring 34 goals against 2 bottom feeders in 6 games winning 5. You know if Makar doesn't play as many games Hughes could be head of him!

 

Last year, Demko was hurt. The year before he was hurt as well but the team played better for Bruce, scoring more and winning more games without Demko at 100% than Tocchet did. Bruce also got Pettersson out of his funk, that funk that seems to be coming back.

 

What has changed in the clubhouse is called the Hawthorne effect. In the NHL they call it the coaching bump. Just goes to show how attitude makes a difference. Boudreau didn't win around 600 games without knowing a thing or two about coaching. For all that they have lots of points they played more games than some other teams and had more games against the worst two teams in the league on those dates.

 

Are they better than last year? Maybe even probably but if so not by much.

 

So when during a coach tenure does the Hawthorne effect take place? I thought it was, when a new coach took over? Tocchet took over last year, so a bit belated if it is a coaching bump...

 

Last year 21 teams averaged 3 or more goals per game over the season... 6 teams scored at 3.5 goals per game

 

So far Canucks has scored 3 or more in 16 games and less than 2 in 1 game only... take the 2 blow outs out of the equation they have still been scoring at 3.5 GPG pace... 

 

Take out the 6 games against the 2 'Bottom feeders' (Oilers being one of them) and the team is still scoring at 3.38 GPG pace

 

Last season Canucks over the season scored at 3.29 GPG pace, so pretty much the same, but what has changed is the goals against...

So to say the goals only is because of the bottom feeder is simply not true... The team is scoring at a great pace... 

 

The team didn't get it done yesterday, and the scoring may drop, but for now they are doing just fine. 

[Diamonds]

45 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

I doubt any teams have travelled more or had more back to backs either.

 

People can say we’re making excuses all they want but the fact is a schedule like this will cause a team to wear down. Not to mention not be able to practice nearly as much as other teams.

 

We’ll see how those other teams do when they have to squeeze in 5 or 6 games into the schedule later on. My guess is they struggle the same way.

 

 

There's no question the schedule has been tough to start the season. But, it's also the start of the season. These are professional athletes who are supposed to have professional level conditioning. One or two off games is fine (last night was probably their worst game of the season) but I don't like people starting to say they look tired only around 12 games into the season. If they've truly been playing tired the last 10 games then Tocchet was right to tear into the team for their conditioning last year.

 

Regardless, hopefully this extended home stretch helps the team reset and refocus. They've still shown they can compete with the best teams this season (even if they fell slightly short of the win in most of them) so one loss doesn't suddenly make them a pretender. But they do need to take last night's game as a bit of a wakeup call.