This whole season seems to beg the Question, What has Tocchet done for this team? Second, did Tocchet make his biggest mistake so far?

[OldFaithfulcap]

3 minutes ago, Rocket-68 said:

 

 

[bishopshodan]

I dont think you are allowed to talk about Toch this way.

 

There may be a day when you can.

But, today is not that day. 

[Rocket-68]

 

Must be fans of the Edmonton Oilers.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Rocket-68

[Goal_thecup]

1 hour ago, Rocket-68 said:

There I was minding my own business and a standup comedy routine broke out on this forum. Quite amusing.

 

Tocchet was one of the rare players that piled up the points while pile driving anyone that came near him. One season Tocchet had 31 goals with 299 PIM with another seeing him score 48 goals and polish the penalty box pine for 252 minutes.  Contrast that with Chris Simon, one very tough dude, who managed one season with 29 goals while collecting 146 PIM. Apples, oranges, something something. Lacing up the skates today would probably have Tocchet making the bottom 6 on some teams ... ba-dum-tsss ... I'll see myself out.

 

Does a good player make a good coach, not really, ask Gretzky. But I like what I see from Tocchet so far and no, he won't be batting 1.000 on every decision made. Let's see what the season brings before passing final judgement - hopefully a Stanley Cup ... ba-dum-tss-Ringo-fill.

Legen..  wait for it.. dairy!

[NewbieCanuckFan]

10 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

I dont think you are allowed to talk about Toch this way.

 

I certainly wouldn't trashtalk Toch in front of his face.  I want to live.

 

Difference between him and Mike Keenan, Toch doesn't have to act 'tough guy' because he actually *is* a tough guy.  

[Nucker67]

Wins

 

DAL*

EDM (x3)

FLA*

MTL

NSH (x2)

NYI

OTT

SJ (x2)

STL*

 

Losses

 

CGY

COL*

NYR*

PHI*

SJ

SEA*

TB*

TOR*

 

Teams currently in a playoff spot are bolded*. Seems the Canucks haven't fared well against playoff teams. Maybe their early success is a result of the easy schedule to start the season? Thank you Oilers and Sharks for those 10 points so far.

 

The Canucks have games coming up against VGK, NJ, CAR and TB. If they lose all of these, then it's pretty telling they're not there yet.

[bishopshodan]

1 minute ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I certainly wouldn't trashtalk Toch in front of his face.  I want to live.

 

Difference between him and Mike Keenan, Toch doesn't have to act 'tough guy' because he actually *is* a tough guy.  

 

Gotta say, I would rather have a coach known for his noodle over his knuckles. If only one attribute existed in a bench boss.

However, Rick has shown to have a confident staight forward demeanor. That likely comes from his balls of steel. I do believe he is more than just a tough guy.

 

The book is still out for me but he has shown he is better than I thought he would be.

 

 

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

 

He took a pretty brutal puck to the face and we don't know all the in's and out's and why's of him not playing. There could be some reasons that they don't reveal (like the fact that he said he is having trouble seeing with the face protection on). 

 

Can you describe what a high danger chance is in YOUR words/view? I'm curious. We can pluck stats all day but cherry picking them only tells partial stories.

 

Your description of Miller, alone, makes me think you're not seeing things as you should. 

 

 

We know miller can do no wrong in your view. Miller was horrible the first couple month last season there’s no denying it. The amount of times he gave up on the play right up until December was unbearable he’s gotten a lot better now. A high danger chance is anything from the slot area bumper area that is on goal and generated a rebound that is also put on goal. Basically anything from the slot that generates a mad scramble at the net?

[Dr. Crossbar]

This all reads like deliberately negative anti-Tocchet bias and sour grapes crying because Kuz got benched.

 

Bob does a good job below of hitting on some of the highlights of what he's done for this team ...

 

12 hours ago, Bob Long said:

He's helping grow a new leadership group, a more professional team identity, his staff is doing a great job improving the defence. 

 

He's building a more consistent and sustainable game.

 

 

He hired Gonchar and Foote - incredible hires for this organization.

 

He also brought necessary accountability, much needed structure, and a team identity (which is obviously ongoing). 

 

He's been instrumental in implementing a much needed change in culture. 

 

He has guys now competing in the right areas and winning board battles.

 

He set in a new standard of preparation and expectations for the team in offseason. He deserves credit for contributing to our great start.

 

He supported and guided Miller through a pivotal identity crisis.

 

He's given Hoglander the opportunity to succeed. 

 

He's had the balls to stay with the Hughes and Hronek pairing to massive success.

 

He's gotten us to a 14-7-1 record at the quarter mark of the season. 

 

He's been successful to date. 

 

 

[NewbieCanuckFan]

20 minutes ago, bishopshodan said:

 

Gotta say, I would rather have a coach known for his noodle over his knuckles. If only one attribute existed in a bench boss.

However, Rick has shown to have a confident staight forward demeanor. That likely comes from his balls of steel. I do believe he is more than just a tough guy.

 

The book is still out for me but he has shown he is better than I thought he would be.

 

 

I will admit I too had some real reservations about him when he was first hired.  Good thing I didn't take any bets on that.

[Coconuts]

He took too many penalties, which is simply unacceptable

 

 

 

[Ballisticsports]

2 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Considering JR and Allvin haven't been with the Canucks for 2 years yet, they have done a heck of a lot to try and fix this team. They aren't there yet, but pretty close I think. Tocchet and his coaching staff are perfect for this team. 

 

There are still some players on this team that won't become Stanley Cup champs. Beauvillier and Kuzmenko are two players I don't believe have a long future in VAN. 

 

I'm having some doubts as to whether the Canucks are a playoff team this year, they seem to be missing something. Maybe it's tough, veteran leadership that has been there. Cole's won before, but he's the only one on the team. I'm hoping they can get another Top 4D and Kessel. I just think it would be fun.

 

 

JR has said that there is a lot of work to be done yet with the team

Since Sept there have been 8 trades and the Canucks have been in on 3, showing how difficult it is to make trades with other teams at the moment

 

RT has been saying he likes the play of Beau, You can't expect him to produce where he is now in the line-up like before, but RT likes what sees and expects from what I have heard

 

I agree RT is the right coach at the right time for this team right now, they are playing more accountable and as a team

From management on down, everyone seems to  be on the same page with commitment to make this a better team with what they have all been given and are able to do with the opportunities presented

[-dlc-]

40 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

We know miller can do no wrong in your view. Miller was horrible the first couple month last season there’s no denying it. The amount of times he gave up on the play right up until December was unbearable he’s gotten a lot better now. A high danger chance is anything from the slot area bumper area that is on goal and generated a rebound that is also put on goal. Basically anything from the slot that generates a mad scramble at the net?

Why are you still stuck on Miller last year? You have to let it go at some point...it's on you, not him.

 

Here's something to read about HDC's and why they're not entirely reliable:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/why-quantifying-scoring-chances-in-hockey-is-a-unique-challenge/

[spook007]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

nope i don't blame him.. nor do i praise him as much as some people are. i'm still neutral.. there's a lot of things we still need to work on.. but i don't like the kuzmenko scratched for 2 games.. he has 14 points in 19 games.. we don't need to scratch him for 2 games in a row to get your point across... there are plenty of ppl we can scratch ie beauvillier..

Until I see management or Tocchet falls through, they have my full support. 
The team is playing better than they have in ages, and of course a better squad has helped with that. 
Nevertheless the pond hockey played under Bruce, while fun and exciting, was not going to win anything, unless they figured out, how to keep the puck out of the net... 

They are slowly progressing towards that target, and in order to improve, we need another top 3-4 D... This is well documented, and I'm sure they are working on it, or have a plan ready. They just need a partner to tango...

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

14 hours ago, Hammertime said:

Maybe the Kuzzi world tour wasn't the best way to prepare for a hockey season?

Yup - clearly he’s not the sharpest knife in the drawer 

[canuck73_3]

15 hours ago, joe-max said:

So you are asking, do we really need him?

This thread may come in…

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Clutch. 

[JeremyCuddles]

15 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

I don't think you understood the post it is the accumulation of Tocchet's inexperience that lead him to that decision.

 

As a former Hockey player that played BCHL and then US collage Hockey I can tell you from experience of being benched, a player is banging his stick to get back in there to show he belongs.

 

Nobody, should care what Amen did like I mention in the post he isn't a regular this season Kuz is a first line winger. Just because Amen had two assists doesn't mean he is going to do the same next game. And I guarantee that Kuz is in the line up next game.

Lack of experience? His coaching career goes back to 08/09. What do you mean he lacks experience? Lol. Us armchair coaches really think we know more than a guy that's been around the game longer than some of us even been alive. And he's been in the business behind the scenes over 15 years. This isn't Travis Green or Desjardins that had no NHL coaching experience. He's been around a while.

[Mike Vanderhoek]

2 hours ago, -dlc- said:

Why are you still stuck on Miller last year? You have to let it go at some point...it's on you, not him.

 

Here's something to read about HDC's and why they're not entirely reliable:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/why-quantifying-scoring-chances-in-hockey-is-a-unique-challenge/

 

Its disappointing seeing some of these replies or even posts like the Tocchet one.

 

The Canucks have done well this year. They have one if the top coaching staffs absolutely. Teams win and lose. Let's try not to reach and try to find things that don't exist after each loss.

 

People pulling this crap in my opinion aren't Canucks fans ( unless they are winning ofcourse then they tell everyone who is listening that they knew it all along ) but simply put trolls. 

 

You support your team, coaches, manager, owner etc not look for ways to shit on one or more or try and prove a garbage narrative about how this team sucks or plays like they did or the coach blows etc. Stand with them win or lose.

 

Lost all respect on opening post " what has Tocchet done " followed up by " he'd be bottom six forward nowadays ".

 

Nope

 

 

[canuck73_3]

3 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

Wins

 

DAL*

EDM (x3)

FLA*

MTL

NSH (x2)

NYI

OTT

SJ (x2)

STL*

SEA
 

Losses

 

CGY

COL*

NYR*

PHI*

SJ

SEA*

TB*

TOR*

 

Teams currently in a playoff spot are bolded*. Seems the Canucks haven't fared well against playoff teams. Maybe their early success is a result of the easy schedule to start the season? Thank you Oilers and Sharks for those 10 points so far.

 

The Canucks have games coming up against VGK, NJ, CAR and TB. If they lose all of these, then it's pretty telling they're not there yet.

This is a bit disingenuous as when the Canucks destroyed the Oilers 3 times they were hands down every pundits cup contender and have been spiralling since. 
 

They have also beat Seattle so you were missing a playoff team win, while crediting them with a playoff team loss. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by canuck73_3

[Nucker67]

8 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

This is a bit disingenuous as when the Canucks destroyed the Oilers 3 times they were hands down every pundits cup contender and have been spiralling since. 
 

They have also beat Seattle so you were missing a playoff team win, while crediting them with a playoff team loss. 

 

Pundits were wrong. Oilers suck this year. 

[Dr. Crossbar]

20 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

This is a bit disingenuous as when the Canucks destroyed the Oilers 3 times they were hands down every pundits cup contender and have been spiralling since. 
 

They have also beat Seattle so you were missing a playoff team win, while crediting them with a playoff team loss. 

 

And remember all the people who said big test, huge game, big test, significant game before all three EDM games ... we passed those tests and challenges ... people said the same thing in every single GDT ... including DAL, STL, FLA ... those were supposedly all barometer games according to fans themselves. 

 

We really need to start beating top teams, which I believe we will, but people can't keep saying "big test" and "big challenge" as if every game is a barometer of being good ... and then when we do rise to the test/challenge, win, use the we haven't beat playoff teams excuse. Can't have it both ways. 

 

 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Dr. Crossbar

[snowman955]

Rick has us in the correct direction. Some tweaks are inevitable. The handling of Kuzmenko has drawn many couch coaches to question this move.

 

Trusting Rick is doing what's best at this time for the team and Kuzmenko is at Rick's discretion. 

 

We don't know what the issue is , let's just see how this is addressed. 

 

It would be wise not to assume,  trading Kuzmenko, is a move to benefit our team.

His value drops as he sits.

[Devron]

Summary. 
 

Poster wants to be right about Tocchet

 

Wants to be right that we will lose more games

 

I have no time for these people 

[kilgore]

The reasoning that it was all Desmith and Demko who were the main contributors to the winning record since Tocc got here totally overlooks the contribution of a more defensive, more structured system he employed together with Gonch and Footey that reduced the high danger chances.

 

 No, the worst thing about Tocchet was that he came in too early and fucked up our shot at landing Bedard 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by kilgore

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

36 minutes ago, kilgore said:

No, the worst thing about Tocchet was that he came in too early and fucked up our shot at landing Bedard

 

Though realistically speaking, even if Chicago didn't shoot themselves in the groin by trying to cover up the scandals, did you really think the league would allow the Canucks to get 1OA at Bedard's draft?