This whole season seems to beg the Question, What has Tocchet done for this team? Second, did Tocchet make his biggest mistake so far?

[spook007]

4 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

not really.. i think all the credit goes to Demko and Desmith.. as they were out of this world in the first 15 games or so with their high danger chance saves.. demko at one point was at .980 when the rest of the league was around .870 avg..

 

we given up just as much high danger chance as last season at the same point.. and our penalty kill is still bad at 75% it's better than last season for sure but really it's not much better.. considering demko is saving everything on high danger chance this year.. and he's giving up everything last year on high danger chances. 

 

things tends to balance out over the year and we are seeing the canucks starting to come back to earth.. we had the 3rd easiest schedule so far this season and the remaining schedule is only going to get tougher.. although i'm pretty optimistic we'll finish 3rd even if we fall off the map the rest of the way just because seattle calgary and edmonton have been awful and unless edmonton get themselves a goalie.. they'll be a WC team at best.

 

i'm not complaining about the record but i would like to see we somehow cut down on these high danger chance against.. i don't care how good the goalies are.. it's not a recipe for success.. high danger chance are usually defined usually as a shot in the slot area and a rebound chance.. aka we ain't getting to the rebound and clearing it.. we still lacking a dman that can clear the crease imo

Agree 100%.... but that is not Tocchets fault. 

[Alflives]

One of these threads.

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Agree 100%.... but that is not Tocchets fault. 

nope i don't blame him.. nor do i praise him as much as some people are. i'm still neutral.. there's a lot of things we still need to work on.. but i don't like the kuzmenko scratched for 2 games.. he has 14 points in 19 games.. we don't need to scratch him for 2 games in a row to get your point across... there are plenty of ppl we can scratch ie beauvillier..

[Goal_thecup]

9 hours ago, Bob Long said:

 

A lot. He's helping grow a new leadership group, a more professional team identity, his staff is doing a great job improving the defence. 

 

He's building a more consistent and sustainable game.

 

Like I said, we are short on depth. Once Allvin sorts that out we will be tough to beat on nights our stars aren't firing on all cylinders.

Roberto of the Luong Patience; you deserve a CFF medal or something.

[Goal_thecup]

9 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Where's the prove on the ice. 

Wait, is that collage talk?

[Goal_thecup]

9 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

top 7-8 forward

Is that a thing?

[IBatch]

Lost me when you said EPs playing the best hockey of his life.   Simply not true.   Even when he was leading the league in scoring for a game or two, nope.   Something was noticeably off with him most of the season. 

 

QHs and maybe Demko yes, but that has a lot to do with the coaching (more on that below).   Miller well, his 120 point pace after Bruce came in...although i'd agree this is just as if not better.   That's not natural progression either.    It's great coaching.   Millers inner beast has some reigns now.  

 

Agreed with Friedman, when he said "the Canucks are the only Canadian team, playing to their potential, or above their potential" after our very hot start.

 

Guess you missed the "memo" that was also sent out to the fanbase.   That "team isn't in elite shape, we are going to work on that "  basically came in and called them out, and rightly so.   And missed "if your not a playoff team, you don't get four months off",  "you put the work in the gym and on the ice to be better the following season" (paraphrased).    That was all Tochett, he started pushing.   There was no "have a great summer, enjoy the vacation" hugs and kisses on the way out the door. 

 

As for development.   This is probably the first coaching staff, i've ever seen including Quin era, where the coaches are very active during practice, to SHOW the players, exactly what they want to see in a game.   That's pro player development.    QHs and EP and Brock took his coaching and words to heart.   Brock was leaner and quicker, noticeably so.  EP doesn't even look the same.  His hits actually hurt now.   And well, he's also playing with something too.   Bet two years ago, he'd be out from whatever that might be.   Much stronger, and it's helped him in the dot. 

 

Best start in club history.   But he's the "wrong coach".    Unanimous decision for coach of the year by the "experts", at the quarter season mark.    In most cases, no other coach is even mentioned (eastern bias included).   So much so, that other teams fanbase's (Oilers), wish they had him instead. 

 

We haven't had a blow out game.   For the most part, full effort even when tired or "flat".    Not seeing the "bad habits" sneak back.    My only criticism, is the club hasn't made a trade yet to give him a better D to work with.    That's not on Tochett.  

 

So far, we've lost two games in a row once.   

 

Our high danger shots have gone way, way down.   Going back to the Markstrom days (that roster for sure was worse too), we've bled high danger shots more then any team or near the worst anyways.    Demko is getting a  big boost as a result.   Another thing, Tochett publicly pointed out last season "we have to reduce high danger shots and not burn out, risk injury, rely on Demmer"  "can't allow double digits"  "reduce shots".   Guess what?  Going back to last season, even with 20 or so games playing with an AHL D plus QHs and Myers, the team bought in, and started reducing both shots, and high danger chances. 

 

So, our GAA is way way down, and our goals for is way up, even if you take our Oiler and SJ blow outs and reduce them by say ten goals.   It's still elite.  

Our PK is middling now, instead of dead last.    Almost historically dead last.    Allvin for sure deserves a lot of credit for that as well.    

 

We are back to a systems game, like Green.   We aren't getting blown out, take away the empty net goals, our losses look a lot like most of Greens too.  One or maybe two goal games.  

 

Demko's stats are much improved, but i'd also argue, it's a lot easier to face 5-7 high danger shots then 8-13 a game isn't it?    And 20-30 shots, instead of 30-40.    Wow who would have thought.  

 

We are absolutely lucky to have Tochett for a coach.   He's the right kind of guy for this group.   Last game, what a difference in the reaction when EP faced a dangerous, dirty hit from Benning.    The last player on the team, we've had, that would have gone in regardless of the coach, was Beagle.   The entire line went to his defense.   

 

Yes the teams struggled.   Stawns and the no more excuse crowd, will be happy to notice, Tochett says the same thing.       

 

Quarter season mark,  Tochett is the only one who is way ahead in the polls for individual hardware.   QHs next up, but is splitting votes with Makar.   Hart is split on our own team.   Selke.   Richard.    Wow, and this has nothing to do with the Tochett effect.

 

For all those arm chair coaches out there.   Well.   Maybe let's see how things look come April.   And May.

 

Odds were, with all the roster changes (and that is also not easy for a coach), before the season started, we had 45% chance of making the playoffs.   Now it's 80%.    

Edited November 27, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

22 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

nope i don't blame him.. nor do i praise him as much as some people are. i'm still neutral.. there's a lot of things we still need to work on.. but i don't like the kuzmenko scratched for 2 games.. he has 14 points in 19 games.. we don't need to scratch him for 2 games in a row to get your point across... there are plenty of ppl we can scratch ie beauvillier..

Torts also had a great start and "best coach ever" thread came up (or something like that). 

 

He's done enough since he arrived, going back to last season, to earn my respect.     We all knew (or should have anyways), that we aren't the Habs from the late 70's.    That hot start was great fun, but things were going to come down to earth.  

 

That great start, for sure also had a ton to do with Tochett.   

[IBatch]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

not really.. i think all the credit goes to Demko and Desmith.. as they were out of this world in the first 15 games or so with their high danger chance saves.. demko at one point was at .980 when the rest of the league was around .870 avg..

 

we given up just as much high danger chance as last season at the same point.. and our penalty kill is still bad at 75% it's better than last season for sure but really it's not much better.. considering demko is saving everything on high danger chance this year.. and he's giving up everything last year on high danger chances. 

 

things tends to balance out over the year and we are seeing the canucks starting to come back to earth.. we had the 3rd easiest schedule so far this season and the remaining schedule is only going to get tougher.. although i'm pretty optimistic we'll finish 3rd even if we fall off the map the rest of the way just because seattle calgary and edmonton have been awful and unless edmonton get themselves a goalie.. they'll be a WC team at best.

 

i'm not complaining about the record but i would like to see we somehow cut down on these high danger chance against.. i don't care how good the goalies are.. it's not a recipe for success.. high danger chance are usually defined usually as a shot in the slot area and a rebound chance.. aka we ain't getting to the rebound and clearing it.. we still lacking a dman that can clear the crease imo

Last year, we were second worst in high danger shots until the coaching change.   Our save percentage was also second worst, and playing with an AHL D, plus Myers and QHs, Tochett's sample size was 9th (quality of comp sure had something to do with that, for me anyways, it more then balanced out given Schenn was traded).   Shots also went down considerably.   And well even Demko praised Tochett and the team for the new system, said it was easier to make the saves.  This year we are 18th.   That's a pretty significant change isn't it?  

Edited November 27, 2023 by IBatch

[Goal_thecup]

22 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Lost me when you said EPs playing the best hockey of his life.   Simply not true.   Even when he was leading the league in scoring for a game or two, nope.   Something was noticeably off with him most of the season. 

 

QHs and maybe Demko yes, but that has a lot to do with the coaching (more on that below).   Miller well, his 120 point pace after Bruce came in...although i'd agree this is just as if not better.   That's not natural progression either.    It's great coaching.   Millers inner beast has some reigns now.  

 

Agreed with Friedman, when he said "the Canucks are the only Canadian team, playing to their potential, or above their potential" after our very hot start.

 

Guess you missed the "memo" that was also sent out to the fanbase.   That "team isn't in elite shape, we are going to work on that "  basically came in and called them out, and rightly so.   And missed "if your not a playoff team, you don't get four months off",  "you put the work in the gym and on the ice to be better the following season" (paraphrased).    That was all Tochett, he started pushing.   There was no "have a great summer, enjoy the vacation" hugs and kisses on the way out the door. 

 

As for development.   This is probably the first coaching staff, i've ever seen including Quin era, where the coaches are very active during practice, to SHOW the players, exactly what they want to see in a game.   That's pro player development.    QHs and EP and Brock took his coaching and words to heart.   Brock was leaner and quicker, noticeably so.  EP doesn't even look the same.  His hits actually hurt now.   And well, he's also playing with something too.   Bet two years ago, he'd be out from whatever that might be.   Much stronger, and it's helped him in the dot. 

 

Best start in club history.   But he's the "wrong coach".    Unanimous decision for coach of the year by the "experts", at the quarter season mark.    In most cases, no other coach is even mentioned (eastern bias included).   So much so, that other teams fanbase's (Oilers), wish they had him instead. 

 

We haven't had a blow out game.   For the most part, full effort even when tired or "flat".    Not seeing the "bad habits" sneak back.    My only criticism, is the club hasn't made a trade yet to give him a better D to work with.    That's not on Tochett.  

 

So far, we've lost two games in a row once.   

 

Our high danger shots have gone way, way down.   Going back to the Markstrom days (that roster for sure was worse too), we've bled high danger shots more then any team or near the worst anyways.    Demko is getting a  big boost as a result.   Another thing, Tochett publicly pointed out last season "we have to reduce high danger shots and not burn out, risk injury, rely on Demmer"  "can't allow double digits"  "reduce shots".   Guess what?  Going back to last season, even with 20 or so games playing with an AHL D plus QHs and Myers, the team bought in, and started reducing both shots, and high danger chances. 

 

So, our GAA is way way down, and our goals for is way up, even if you take our Oiler and SJ blow outs and reduce them by say ten goals.   It's still elite.  

Our PK is middling now, instead of dead last.    Almost historically dead last.    Allvin for sure deserves a lot of credit for that as well.    

 

We are back to a systems game, like Green.   We aren't getting blown out, take away the empty net goals, our losses look a lot like most of Greens too.  One or maybe two goal games.  

 

Demko's stats are much improved, but i'd also argue, it's a lot easier to face 5-7 high danger shots then 8-13 a game isn't it?    And 20-30 shots, instead of 30-40.    Wow who would have thought.  

 

We are absolutely lucky to have Tochett for a coach.   He's the right kind of guy for this group.   Last game, what a difference in the reaction when EP faced a dangerous, dirty hit from Benning.    The last player on the team, we've had, that would have gone in regardless of the coach, was Beagle.   The entire line went to his defense.   

 

Yes the teams struggled.   Stawns and the no more excuse crowd, will be happy to notice, Tochett says the same thing.       

 

Quarter season mark,  Tochett is the only one who is way ahead in the polls for individual hardware.   QHs next up, but is splitting votes with Makar.   Hart is split on our own team.   Selke.   Richard.    Wow, and this has nothing to do with the Tochett effect.

 

For all those arm chair coaches out there.   Well.   Maybe let's see how things look come April.   And May.

 

Odds were, with all the roster changes (and that is also not easy for a coach), before the season started, we had 45% chance of making the playoffs.   Now it's 80%.    

Wow man!  That is a beautiful report.

I thought this thread was just useless and a bit of fun, but this post was worth all the early ridiculousness.

Do you write for a living?  Thanks for posting.

 

[Rip The Mesh]

I think he's already shown he's the right man for the coaching job. Have not felt this positive about the team since Vinny.  This team is / has, become good

under Rick's leadership. Sure there's the occasion burp that reminds us of recent campaigns that went no-where by the mid-way part.

 

Coach doesn't seem to be getting burned out, nor do the players. Vancouver has the worst travel schedule in the league and we've just had a wee little

burp in our recent hand full of days. We're a contender and how often does that happen round these parts. 

 

The only way this is being made possible is Toc!  And the fact the players not only want playoff for themselves but for the coach that's going to take them there.

Hell yah! Playoffs, baby !!!!!

[IBatch]

2 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

Wow man!  That is a beautiful report.

I thought this thread was just useless and a bit of fun, but this post was worth all the early ridiculousness.

Do you write for a living?  Thanks for posting.

 

Wow thanks!   Just on here, too much free time lol. 

Edited November 27, 2023 by IBatch

[stawns]

5 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

not really.. i think all the credit goes to Demko and Desmith.. as they were out of this world in the first 15 games or so with their high danger chance saves.. demko at one point was at .980 when the rest of the league was around .870 avg..

 

we given up just as much high danger chance as last season at the same point.. and our penalty kill is still bad at 75% it's better than last season for sure but really it's not much better.. considering demko is saving everything on high danger chance this year.. and he's giving up everything last year on high danger chances. 

 

things tends to balance out over the year and we are seeing the canucks starting to come back to earth.. we had the 3rd easiest schedule so far this season and the remaining schedule is only going to get tougher.. although i'm pretty optimistic we'll finish 3rd even if we fall off the map the rest of the way just because seattle calgary and edmonton have been awful and unless edmonton get themselves a goalie.. they'll be a WC team at best.

 

i'm not complaining about the record but i would like to see we somehow cut down on these high danger chance against.. i don't care how good the goalies are.. it's not a recipe for success.. high danger chance are usually defined usually as a shot in the slot area and a rebound chance.. aka we ain't getting to the rebound and clearing it.. we still lacking a dman that can clear the crease imo

[Goal_thecup]

Just now, IBatch said:

Wow thanks!   Just on here, too much free time lol. 

I have had some collage training in literature, communications, etc, and whether you know it or not, your report is full of good communication.

But enough simping (is that correct? first time I've used that word; I'm learning it from the youtube viddies about cheating wives and girlfriends etc.)

The positives that came out in this thread are great; and from such a stupid post.

From small things mama, big things one day come. - Dave Edmunds (+Nick Lowe in Rockpile?)

 

The Canucks are on a roll; only the spare tire is down a few pounds, none of the driving wheels.

[Nucker67]

Considering JR and Allvin haven't been with the Canucks for 2 years yet, they have done a heck of a lot to try and fix this team. They aren't there yet, but pretty close I think. Tocchet and his coaching staff are perfect for this team. 

 

There are still some players on this team that won't become Stanley Cup champs. Beauvillier and Kuzmenko are two players I don't believe have a long future in VAN. 

 

I'm having some doubts as to whether the Canucks are a playoff team this year, they seem to be missing something. Maybe it's tough, veteran leadership that has been there. Cole's won before, but he's the only one on the team. I'm hoping they can get another Top 4D and Kessel. I just think it would be fun.

 

 

[Bob Long]

This really feels like it belongs on Reddit.

[wai_lai416]

9 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Last year, were second worst in high danger shots until the coaching change.   Our save percentage was also second worst, and playing with an AHL D, plus Myers and QHs, Tochett's sample size was 9th.   Shots also went down considerably.   And well even Demko praised Tochett and the team for the new system, said it was easier to make the saves.  This year we are 18th.   That's a pretty significant change isn't it?  

compared to last year at the same point we are not that much further ahead in high danger chance considering the complete revamped upgraded defence.. where we are against the league is irrelevant.. we have 2 less high danger chance at the same 22 game mark as last year and that's with hronek cole soucy upgraded over whatever we have last year.. so what part of that is significant? first 22 game 275 last season vs first 22 game 273 this season.. last season we played with 0 structure as ppl say and have an ahl defence and Miller deciding to mail it in on defence the first 3 months.. so where's the improvement? they are literally giving up exact same amount of chance as last year when we were horrible only difference is Demko and Desmith stopped 99% of it in the beginning.. and lately they are leaking them in left and right. 

 

just because other teams are doing worse than us doesn't mean we actually improved in that department.. if anything the high danger chance against went up this season compared to last season after tochett took over.. and that's with all the so call improvement and new system in place.

 

 

[Rocket-68]

There I was minding my own business and a standup comedy routine broke out on this forum. Quite amusing.

 

Tocchet was one of the rare players that piled up the points while pile driving anyone that came near him. One season Tocchet had 31 goals with 299 PIM with another seeing him score 48 goals and polish the penalty box pine for 252 minutes.  Contrast that with Chris Simon, one very tough dude, who managed one season with 29 goals while collecting 146 PIM. Apples, oranges, something something. Lacing up the skates today would probably have Tocchet making the bottom 6 on some teams ... ba-dum-tsss ... I'll see myself out.

 

Does a good player make a good coach, not really, ask Gretzky. But I like what I see from Tocchet so far and no, he won't be batting 1.000 on every decision made. Let's see what the season brings before passing final judgement - hopefully a Stanley Cup ... ba-dum-tss-Ringo-fill.

Edited November 27, 2023 by Rocket-68

[TheGuardian]

5 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

compared to last year at the same point we are not that much further ahead in high danger chance considering the complete revamped upgraded defence.. where we are against the league is irrelevant.. we have 2 less high danger chance at the same 22 game mark as last year and that's with hronek cole soucy upgraded over whatever we have last year.. so what part of that is significant? first 22 game 275 last season vs first 22 game 273 this season.. last season we played with 0 structure as ppl say and have an ahl defence and Miller deciding to mail it in on defence the first 3 months.. so where's the improvement? they are literally giving up exact same amount of chance as last year when we were horrible only difference is Demko and Desmith stopped 99% of it in the beginning.. and lately they are leaking them in left and right. 

 

just because other teams are doing worse than us doesn't mean we actually improved in that department.. if anything the high danger chance against went up this season compared to last season after tochett took over.. and that's with all the so call improvement and new system in place.

 

 

Those games against the horrible Oilers and then San Jose really skew the stats in the team's favour.

As much as the schedule toughness, how many teams did they play that were over .500 at the time? SRS show the easiest in the league.

Lots of talk about "structure", looks a little bit like dumbing the game down and reigning in some individual skill plays to more team one offensively.

Except Hughes, Tocchet has unleashed that boy and let him be a rover. Still a dzone liability only offset by positive PP numbers, still I think BB did that too.

Waiting for other teams to decline to show improvement, appears so.

 

The biggest improvement on the ice is Demko and DeSmith's starts. 

[-dlc-]

 

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

nope i don't blame him.. nor do i praise him as much as some people are. i'm still neutral.. there's a lot of things we still need to work on.. but i don't like the kuzmenko scratched for 2 games.. he has 14 points in 19 games.. we don't need to scratch him for 2 games in a row to get your point across... there are plenty of ppl we can scratch ie beauvillier..

He took a pretty brutal puck to the face and we don't know all the in's and out's and why's of him not playing. There could be some reasons that they don't reveal (like the fact that he said he is having trouble seeing with the face protection on). 

 

Can you describe what a high danger chance is in YOUR words/view? I'm curious. We can pluck stats all day but cherry picking them only tells partial stories.

 

Your description of Miller, alone, makes me think you're not seeing things as you should. 

 

 

[sxqhfeh]

Tocchet isn't the problem. The players are playing very hard for him. They are all buy in his system. They just can't do it two nights in a row. They don't expect goalies to play two back to back but skaters can?

Tocchet's scheme works best when there's speed. Canucks are riddled with slow guys hustling their butts off. It's too much to do it twice without rest but that's what you want from your guys. Managing ice time might help but this team rides its horses. lets move on..

Edited November 27, 2023 by sxqhfeh

[jabloomf1230]

This team has a lot of mediocre players combined with a bunch of superstars either at or reaching their primes. In the past, the latter group hasn't been the problem. Tocchet has literally scared the former group into playing a 200 foot game as hard as they can for 60 minutes. This strategy has worked so far but it remains to be seen if this can work for a whole season. With the recent string of back to backs, the team has looked tired caused by playing this style of play. 

 

As to Kuzmenko, he seems like a talented guy that doesn't come off as being serious and and a result, his and the coach's personalities don't seem to mesh. 

[OldFaithfulcap]

Not a tocchet fan but too early for this thread. The Canucks start exceeded expectations, a few losses now but easy for the ship to be righted. It's fine to highlight some areas of concern, note some trends but too early to pass judgment yet. 

 

 

[Rocket-68]

11 minutes ago, OldFaithfulcap said:

Not a tocchet fan but too early for this thread. The Canucks start exceeded expectations, a few losses now but easy for the ship to be righted. It's fine to highlight some areas of concern, note some trends but too early to pass judgment yet. 

 

 

[Rocket-68]

45 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

 

....

 

Your description of Miller, alone, makes me think you're not seeing things as you should. 

 

 

Edited November 27, 2023 by Rocket-68