This whole season seems to beg the Question, What has Tocchet done for this team? Second, did Tocchet make his biggest mistake so far?

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 hour ago, bishopshodan said:

Kuz just needs to suck on a lemon to get that smile off his face before Toch comes around the corner, and he will be fine.

 

Swap his pepsi with lime juice, grapefruit juice, or blended bittermelon when he's not looking.  

[Steamer4GM]

23 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Disclaimer, You might destroy me now but this post will hold the test of time.

It doesn’t even stand up to the spell check test 

[Steamer4GM]

22 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

I think most fans would have a hard time explaining what a coach actually does unless they themselves have played in the higher tiers; juniors, major juniors, USHL, NCAA.

If there is any of you guys out there maybe you could answer the question what has Tocchet done for this team?

Lol.  A page of responses into your post with few agreeing so ya change lanes and ask that only those as smart and experienced as you are reply. 
 

Solid move!

 

Must have learned it in collage

[wai_lai416]

10 hours ago, -dlc- said:

Why are you still stuck on Miller last year? You have to let it go at some point...it's on you, not him.

 

Here's something to read about HDC's and why they're not entirely reliable:

https://www.sportsnet.ca/nhl/article/why-quantifying-scoring-chances-in-hockey-is-a-unique-challenge/

because i'm comparing the team to the start of last year?? people say we improved tremendously in the first 22 games defensively but in reality we have been giving up just as much grade A chances as last year with a far superior defensive squad and players actually trying compared to last season when half the team didn't give a f about defence? the only thing we improved on defensively is we are not as obvious and blatant in giving up those chance.. but we are still giving up the same amount of grade A chance as last season with the only exception of the goalie stopping a lot more of them than last season. 

 

there's absolutely nothing wrong with me mentioning this team defensively in terms of giving up chances is no better than last season with a half ass ahl defence and Miller mailing it in during the first 22 games. i'm not even sure how we are at the same amount of chances given up with this defence and the 3rd weakest schedule to start the season playing with a more structured and more defence oriented style. 

 

i've said it since the beginning of the season when we are red hot.. it's great we are winning.. but defensively we are still not good.. we don't give up as much individual chances as last year.. but we are giving them up in bunches at a time. it was only a matter of when when demko and desmith comes back to league average.. and they are back to average in terms of saving those chances.. and look where we are at in the last 8-10 games 

[Jeremy Hronek]

23 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

I would ask is he. Where's the prove on the ice. 

 

I could have taken this post in multiple ways.

 

Here is one, Why is Miller having to tell the players where to stand prior to the faceoffs anyone else notice that. That is a lot of talking being over heard by the opposition, They are literally telling the opposition their plays a head of time. That is not a team well prepared. 

Tenner on this being a burner/troll account.  

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

2 hours ago, Ballisticsports said:

“I think he needs to get his game a little sharper,” said head coach Rick Tocchet when discussing the decision. “When you’re not scoring, you’ve gotta make sure of your details in your own end. He’s thinking too much. There are some systems stuff that we need to be able to count on in these positions.”

 

Tocchet’s  upset with the 14-point Kuzmenko — two even-strength goals and just three overall in 19 games — is about non-negotiable system staples too often falling on deaf ears. He preaches being good with the puck and responsible without it to reduce turnovers and increase scoring chances.(Accountability we wanted-You can't preach it and expect other's to respect that if someone else isn't while Not producing either)

Being cute with creative spins and a zigzag routes to the net aren’t going to cut it with Tocchet.

His quick Kuzmenko retorts Friday spoke volumes.

“I think Kuzy needs a reset.”

“Kuzy’s got to start playing a little harder.”

RT is softening his true thoughts on Kuzzy - this is him being chill before reporters

 

If OEL couldn’t play for Rick maybe Kuzzy can’t either?

 

it’s pretty obvious that he is someone who thinks outside the box - just look at how he trained in the summertime…

 

Management was actually pretty pissed at him for going to a tropical island if you didn’t know that already…

 

I think he is a free spirit who likes to be creative and shoot from the hip and be intuitive and kind of make things up as he goes along

he succeeded playing a flashy game a creative game and make difficult plays he succeeded last year doing this but now that that element of his game has been stripped away he can’t produce

…

It’s kind of like he has to learn how to play hockey again with a system that is controlling him… Some people can’t handle that kind of control… They actually kick against it and I think he is someone like that

 

the guy drinks Pepsi during the hockey game - no one does that - he’s outside the box man

 

maybe he can put it together… If you could that would be great because we have our 40 goal scorer up and running 

 

Hopefully he can learn how to play system-based hockey and be productive within that system…

[Gawdzukes]

This OP is clueless. Tocchet was a great hockey player. He was very skilled, if you watched him play, and he was tough as nails, and a great teammate to boot. One of the better players of his time. Teams records are largely a function of the players at the coaches disposal. He didn't have much to work with. This is a dumb way to gauge the measure of a coach. So much more goes on that we simply don't see as fans. So much wrong from start to finish in this thread.

[Ballisticsports]

10 hours ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

RT is softening his true thoughts on Kuzzy - this is him being chill before reporters

 

If OEL couldn’t play for Rick maybe Kuzzy can’t either?

 

it’s pretty obvious that he is someone who thinks outside the box - just look at how he trained in the summertime…

 

Management was actually pretty pissed at him for going to a tropical island if you didn’t know that already…

 

I think he is a free spirit who likes to be creative and shoot from the hip and be intuitive and kind of make things up as he goes along

he succeeded playing a flashy game a creative game and make difficult plays he succeeded last year doing this but now that that element of his game has been stripped away he can’t produce

…

It’s kind of like he has to learn how to play hockey again with a system that is controlling him… Some people can’t handle that kind of control… They actually kick against it and I think he is someone like that

 

the guy drinks Pepsi during the hockey game - no one does that - he’s outside the box man

 

maybe he can put it together… If you could that would be great because we have our 40 goal scorer up and running 

 

Hopefully he can learn how to play system-based hockey and be productive within that system…

Tocchet offered this up a month ago to Not overthink the systems

 

“I think he’s struggling,” said Tocchet of Kuzmenko’s slow start to the season. “He’s confused on certain things. The biggest thing is if he moves his feet and stays closer to his teammates he’ll get out of this.” Tocchet thinks Mikheyev’s return to the line can help.

"Kuzy is thinking systems too much, just play to the staples, a system is a system , A high end player that wants the puck He thinks the system too much and doesn't skate as much, if you think staples I don't want him over thinking the system"

 

POSTGAME | Tocchet at Panthers | Vancouver Canucks (nhl.com)

 

Then there is this from Bruce Boudreau

 

“I’m sure Rick’s going through the same thing — I mean, some days, he was great, and some days, he was not there,” Boudreau said. “Evidently, he’s trying to send a message. I mean, we did the same thing early last year. I sat him out in Toronto, I think, or somewhere close to there. And, I mean, he got the message, caught on fire, and had the year that he did.”

 

To hear Boudreau tell it in the interview, making Kuzmenko a healthy scratch is just part of the reality of being a head coach in the NHL.

Edited November 28, 2023 by Ballisticsports

[Spur1]

On 11/26/2023 at 9:35 PM, CanuckFanForever said:

Disclaimer, You might destroy me now but this post will hold the test of time.

Karma is a beach. 

[Amebushi]

I have never played collage hockey so I probably am not qualified to discuss this topic. Rick has brought systems to this team, systems we didn’t have. The OP wants examples…How is it that Myers has become a somewhat useful, minute munching defenceman?  It’s almost as though someone taught him what to do and how to simplify his game. Hughes is dominating the league and has the ability to roam the ice as he pleases yet somehow this year there is more coverage when he decides to roam. 
 

How about the response to Petey getting cheap shotted by Benning?  I do not believe a Green coached team would responded the way they did. Petey is not 100% but still hitting, back checking and making his presence felt in other ways. Miller appears to be far more in check this year emotionally. 
 

Is RT the coach to take us to the promised land?  Who knows, I am seeing a team that is exceeding my expectations from the beginning of the year and I am enjoying it. When the team loses…blame the coach. If the team wins…it’s despite the coach. I sincerely hope the OP gets roasted on this at the end of the year. 

[canuck73_3]

12 hours ago, Nucker67 said:

 

Pundits were wrong. Oilers suck this year. 

Partially because Vancouver ruined them. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

5 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

This OP is clueless. Tocchet was a great hockey player. He was very skilled, if you watched him play, and he was tough as nails, and a great teammate to boot. One of the better players of his time. Teams records are largely a function of the players at the coaches disposal. He didn't have much to work with. This is a dumb way to gauge the measure of a coach. So much more goes on that we simply don't see as fans. So much wrong from start to finish in this thread.

 

He's a troll, lol.  Take his posts with a grain of salt.  If anything it's half-decent comedy.  

[IBatch]

14 hours ago, Barn Burner said:

There is no way that someone with RT's pedigree would be a bottom six forward. 

 

I'm pretty sure he scares the hell out of 99% of the players on our team. 

 

At the age of 23, playing in the Canada Cup with some guys names Gretzky and Lemieux. 

 

Like you said, guys like this are trolls. In major need of attention. 

 

But hey, he can back it up with his BCJHL and US "collage" hockey experience! 

 

Looks like he should've stayed in school. 

Obviously a kid making these posts (anyone under 30 looks like a kid to me these days). 

 

Wasn't around to watch him play.   Even late in his career, playing on a very mediocre ARI team, he ventilated Broduer,  during NJ peak, and that was in the playoffs.    Good grief people write some stupid stuff on here at times.   Like dead puck era.   And well, somehow our very own Sedins couldn't manage that game until the rule changes.    If Tochett played today, every single team would be after him, and Tom Wilson and Deslauriers would have "maintenance" days when he was in town.    Probably be a 40-50 goal scorer year after year in today's game.   I read that post, like that there are a few teams today, like right now (and agree with this), that he could play in the bottom six right now, at his current age.    Give him a modern stick and he'd do just fine.    
 

AHLers galore.   Bet if the team signed him and the Sedins,  Gonchar Foote, at the league min, we'd  probably win a cup this year.      How's that for saying some stupid stuff too.  

 

Bottom line is, we have a club full of winners now.   So maybe we should just trust the system too.  And support the players who are buying into it, for us. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by IBatch

[-dlc-]

9 hours ago, Jeremy Hronek said:

Tenner on this being a burner/troll account.  

Clutch observation.

[Ghostsof1915]

Is the OP the same person from CDC that claimed being an ex-scout for Colorado?

Certainly doesn't seem much of a Canucks fan from the posts he/she is making.

 

 

[-dlc-]

10 minutes ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

Is the OP the same person from CDC that claimed being an ex-scout for Colorado?

Certainly doesn't seem much of a Canucks fan from the posts he/she is making.

 

 

"I'm a former scout"....

[Goal_thecup]

10 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

"I'm a former scout"....

Anytime I hear something like that, I think, "Did you get paid for working in that capacity?"

If not, all of us here are still scouts, let alone former scouts. 

[Jeremy Hronek]

1 hour ago, -dlc- said:

"I'm a former scout"....

 

Given the quality of his posts and the IQ he was displaying, I guess it is possible that he was a 15 year old Girl Scout selling cookies and strawberry shortcake.  

Edited November 28, 2023 by Jeremy Hronek

[Alflives]

Just now, Jeremy Hronek said:

 

Given the quality of his posts and the IQ he was displaying, I guess it possible that he was a 15 year old Girl Scout selling cookies and strawberry shortcake.  

Those chocolate covered mint ones are fantastic! Especially dunked in scotch!!!

[-dlc-]

Just now, Alflives said:

Those chocolate covered mint ones are fantastic! Especially dunked in scotch!!!

Oh, I don't like those ones. I'm a weirdo....don't like mint much at unless (unless it's spearmint)

[IBatch]

10 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

because i'm comparing the team to the start of last year?? people say we improved tremendously in the first 22 games defensively but in reality we have been giving up just as much grade A chances as last year with a far superior defensive squad and players actually trying compared to last season when half the team didn't give a f about defence? the only thing we improved on defensively is we are not as obvious and blatant in giving up those chance.. but we are still giving up the same amount of grade A chance as last season with the only exception of the goalie stopping a lot more of them than last season. 

 

there's absolutely nothing wrong with me mentioning this team defensively in terms of giving up chances is no better than last season with a half ass ahl defence and Miller mailing it in during the first 22 games. i'm not even sure how we are at the same amount of chances given up with this defence and the 3rd weakest schedule to start the season playing with a more structured and more defence oriented style. 

 

i've said it since the beginning of the season when we are red hot.. it's great we are winning.. but defensively we are still not good.. we don't give up as much individual chances as last year.. but we are giving them up in bunches at a time. it was only a matter of when when demko and desmith comes back to league average.. and they are back to average in terms of saving those chances.. and look where we are at in the last 8-10 games 

It's doesn't look the same.   And well, we have to use the league as the comparable.   Not last season.   We've gone from almost dead last, to 18th in high danger shots against.  And those are also subjective.   We aren't seeing the major giveaways and breakdowns, and 2-1 ones etc we were last year either.   Demko himself has said he likes Tochetts system, he sees the shots easier.    Not all high danger shots are created equal.  Yet they all get the same number.   Count as one a piece.   Big difference between a McDavid breakaway, and a regular garden variety slot chance. 

 

Was at the OTT game.   We were outshot and it wasn't our best game, but the high danger shots were something like 7-3 (in our favour).   That wasn't our best game for sure.    Last loss against SJ, our goalie didn't bail us out at all.   We should have won that game.    Only the Dallas game, and it's not like we outplayed either, has the goalie stole a game for us.    Sure we are getting top end goaltending, it's also what we should be hoping for as well.   Demko was injured last season.   But wasn't the reason why we were blowing leads, had zero structure and had defenseman and certain players (Miller the first 9 games or so), passing the puck tape to tape to the wrong player either.

 

It's not the same passive 5 man box Bomber employed either.   It's attack oriented.    So the other team is always trying to make a play under pressure.    

 

Doesn't look, or feel like last years dreadful start.    If Tochett can't make this work, and know we've got some serious defenseman depth issues as well, then we should be considering a full blow up.   

 

If you want to compare years then how's this, the only time we've ever had the number one PP, this group has surpassed the peak Sedin era's numbers a couple times already.    Doesn't mean our PP is the best in the league though last year does it? 

Edited November 28, 2023 by IBatch

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, -dlc- said:

Oh, I don't like those ones. I'm a weirdo....don't like mint much at unless (unless it's spearmint)

Mrs. Alf gets a couple boxes of the mint ones when the kids are selling. She puts them up in a high cupboard where I can’t get to.  It’s not like old Alf would eat them all. 

[-dlc-]

31 minutes ago, Goal_thecup said:

Anytime I hear something like that, I think, "Did you get paid for working in that capacity?"

If not, all of us here are still scouts, let alone former scouts. 

I'm actually a pretty good one....my track record's decent.

[Rocket-68]

Well this settles it, Tocchet is a wilting Petnunia in my books ... we should fill the team with Petunias just like him. 

 

He is the NHL all-time leader in Gordie Howe Hat Tricks with 18 --> https://thehockeywriters.com/gordie-howe-hat-trick-explained/

Edited November 28, 2023 by Rocket-68

[Rocket-68]

8 hours ago, Amebushi said:

I have never played collage hockey so I probably am not qualified to discuss this topic. Rick has brought systems to this team, systems we didn’t have. The OP wants examples…How is it that Myers has become a somewhat useful, minute munching defenceman?  

 

If you played pond hockey and watched the movie Slapshot at least once, you are qualified to opine here or anywhere, including Martha Stewart's baking blog. 

Edited November 28, 2023 by Rocket-68