Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 8 minutes ago, The Duke said: Miller’s contract has the risk of being an anchor at the end due to his age. Petey is signing for his prime. All you’re doing is explaining why going for a higher AAV now, for longer leads to bargains down the road for prime aged players. Older guys sign for longer to be a bargain today and a risk down the line. If management wants to go a little cheaper today for shorter I can see the logic there, but you’re going to have the exact same concerns 3-4 years from now. Then there’s the fact he can just walk himself to UFA in a year and get paid whatever he wants. This isn’t the situation to play hardball. If you want to trade him this offseason, then fine but you’re throwing away the benefit of having Miller signed for a bargain unless you can maintain/improve on Petey ASAP. That’s the conundrum. We have Miller, Hughes and Demko signed for great value RIGHT NOW. Getting rid of the 4th member of the core and wasting that advantage is a pretty sizable risk. youre forgetting Boeser. with the qualifying offer we can keep petey for another year, but really, why doesnt he do a large salary deal declining over a few years. while keeping the cap low enough... I think if he doesnt, we do the qualifying offer and see what everyone eles wants to pay... call his agents bluff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: Ep contract have nothing to do with anyone else. They have Myers coming off the book. Ep getting 3 mil more Myers replacement getting 3mil less it just off sets. The Canucks screwed themselves with all the overpaid contracts they have plus buy outs We have to re-sign Myers, maybe lower, but also Heronik so you cant look at that as free cap money. The free cap money is likely Cole's 3 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 32 minutes ago, NMHockey said: I am fully aware of what happened with our last management group and with Trevor Linden. I know people who have worked with every management group we've had and also people connected to the Aquilinis through their farming business. So believe me, I've heard it all and also have been concerned about the Aquilinis for a long time. But that was before and this is now. The team was in shambles after Linden left and Benning then traded for Ekman-Larsson|Garland. Once that happened the Aquilinis really started to realize that they need to make some behaviour changes. It was becoming a situation where even their needs and wants would not be met (making money!). So Aquilini swallowed his pride and flew to see Rutherford and then accepted to fully hand over control to Rutherford and company. Judging by the fact that we now have more top prospects than ever and also five players all in the top 25 scorers in the league; on top of being in the top five teams in the league. I'd say my point stands. IMO, Our problem wasn't Gillis or Linden, Benning, nor is it Rutherford or Allvin Our problems are caused by Francesco and while we can see that Allvin clearly is smarter than Benning, as long as Francesco has to give his approval on any decision made, this team will never become good enough to become a contender. Everyone went nuts when we had the Green bumps and we had 3 or 4 that drove me crazy because it saved his job. Our goalies playing lights out in the bubble playoffs had everyone convinced we had the best team in Canada only to end up being in last place in the all Canadian division the following season.We had one of the biggest bumps ever under the Bruce run and the majority of fans actually thought they could plan a parade route. No doubt with the team overachieving by a mile and the great start because of great goaltending, the players are playing with a ton of confidence right now. However we all know that this can't continue for much longer. I trust Rutherford and he told us just this past January that major surgery is needed in order to build a legit contender. IMO Allvin needs to make 3 or 4 more Hronek type trades in order to bring in the players we need as our core group isn't good enough yet IMO This is just another false hope bump that far too many can't see past Make the trades and then I will begin to believe hope is actually here Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 10 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: it's ok we can use the 10mil we save from EP and sign 2 more garland like players at 5mil each so they can play hard and grind every night …and I like Garland. But yeah, we’d have to have a trade like Vegas had lined up to land Eichel (who was a pretty ballsy / risky acquisition at the time) for trading Petey to make sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 The EP contract doesnt matter if we win the Cup this year. I bet even if we win EP would even stay for the qualifying offer of 8.whatever i looked up earlier, to win it again next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said: IMO, Our problem wasn't Gillis or Linden, Benning, nor is it Rutherford or Allvin Our problems are caused by Francesco and while we can see that Allvin clearly is smarter than Benning, as long as Francesco has to give his approval on any decision made, this team will never become good enough to become a contender. Everyone went nuts when we had the Green bumps and we had 3 or 4 that drove me crazy because it saved his job. Our goalies playing lights out in the bubble playoffs had everyone convinced we had the best team in Canada only to end up being in last place in the all Canadian division the following season.We had one of the biggest bumps ever under the Bruce run and the majority of fans actually thought they could plan a parade route. No doubt with the team overachieving by a mile and the great start because of great goaltending, the players are playing with a ton of confidence right now. However we all know that this can't continue for much longer. I trust Rutherford and he told us just this past January that major surgery is needed in order to build a legit contender. IMO Allvin needs to make 3 or 4 more Hronek type trades in order to bring in the players we need as our core group isn't good enough yet IMO This is just another false hope bump that far too many can't see past Make the trades and then I will begin to believe hope is actually here It feels like you are a young jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 2 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said: No doubt with the team overachieving by a mile and the great start because of great goaltending, the players are playing with a ton of confidence right now. Never thought we’d overachieve so well that we were 1st in the Western Conference by the new year. That’s some wild stuff. Goaltending has been somewhat average the last month too imo. Demko had been inconsistent but that’s the ups and downs of a season. I can’t say what team we have here yet but it has to be something cause no one flukes to first almost half way through the season. I don’t care the schedule or how it was done 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Duke Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Tusk said: youre forgetting Boeser. with the qualifying offer we can keep petey for another year, but really, why doesnt he do a large salary deal declining over a few years. while keeping the cap low enough... I think if he doesnt, we do the qualifying offer and see what everyone eles wants to pay... call his agents bluff The trickiness of his deal is that even a max one would only take him to 33 - and as we’ve seen with Miller he’ll likely still be very very good at that point. Qualifying Petey for 1 year would be the most “all in” move of all time - because if he walks for nothing we’re giving up multiple 1st round picks worth of value. In any case, I think Petey and the team are more focused on this year. I said earlier, there’s really no rush before the summer - but they’ll want to get something done right away after the season so they know the budget for the rest of the team. Edited January 1 by The Duke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Tusk said: We have to re-sign Myers, maybe lower, but also Heronik so you cant look at that as free cap money. The free cap money is likely Cole's 3 million. Myers is as good as gone. We need to spend $4-$5m +/- on a player like Pesce/Tanev/Larsson/Zub etc to play with Hughes and bump Hronek to 2nd pair with Zadorov. That's not Myers. Zadorov, assuming he extends, replaces Cole. Edited January 1 by aGENT 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, aGENT said: Myers is as good as gone. Keep talking dirty to me 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 5 minutes ago, Devron said: Never thought we’d overachieve so well that we were 1st in the Western Conference by the new year. That’s some wild stuff. Goaltending has been somewhat average the last month too imo. Demko had been inconsistent but that’s the ups and downs of a season. I can’t say what team we have here yet but it has to be something cause no one flukes to first almost half way through the season. I don’t care the schedule or how it was done Vancouver has a homer-leaning media that thinks it is their job to sell hype over the truth Fans in Vancouver are gullible and tend to believe all the false hype as IMO most haven't been able to move on from 2011 and think we are just an RHD away from winning a cup. Not right to dupe the fan base year after year as they actually think this team is good and ignore Rutherford's own words about needing to do major surgery and to take a couple of steps back in order to build a legit contender Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Devron said: Keep talking dirty to me I wouldn't even wait to let him walk in the offseason, retain $2m and move him at the TDL. Use that $4m to improve elsewhere 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devron Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, sxqhfeh said: Vancouver has a homer-leaning media that thinks it is their job to sell hype over the truth Fans in Vancouver are gullible and tend to believe all the false hype as IMO most haven't been able to move on from 2011 and think we are just an RHD away from winning a cup. Not right to dupe the fan base year after year as they actually think this team is good and ignore Rutherford's own words about needing to do major surgery and to take a couple of steps back in order to build a legit contender Are they selling the hype though? It seems there’s more people on your side. That we are overachieving and are bound to fail. That’s all I seem to here anyways I don’t know if we are a contender or not honestly. I just ain’t buying what people are selling either way. We will see. What I can say is that this team deserves recognition for the work that has been done so far this season. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 3 minutes ago, aGENT said: Myers is as good as gone. We need to spend $4-$5m +/- on a player like Pesce/Tanev/Larsson/Zub etc to play with Hughes and bump Hronek to 2nd pair with Zadorov. That's not Myers. Zadorov, assuming he extends, replaces Cole. Myers is actually playing right again, being an offensive d-man instead of trying to block shots all day. He is getting fixed. He is starting to look like when he was in winterpeg. With a defensive guy he can trust, Myers will open up the rush. I saw him a few games ago take it all the way deep because there were no forwards due to a line change. And check out his analytics please . I am a 100% sure the canucks management see him differently than the fan base does. Maybe the Giraffe name will stand but now we got twin Giraffes, whether he is with Zads or Jewels. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 minute ago, Devron said: Are they selling the hype though? It seems there’s more people on your side. That we are overachieving and are bound to fail. That’s all I seem to here anyways I don’t know if we are a contender or not honestly. I just ain’t buying what people are selling either way. We will see. What I can say is that this team deserves recognition for the work that has been done so far this season. Celebrate Vancouver Canucks, first in the NHL in games played at Christmas day and the only NHL team who put a finger biter on their Ring of Honour. lol. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 7 minutes ago, aGENT said: I wouldn't even wait to let him walk in the offseason, retain $2m and move him at the TDL. Use that $4m to improve elsewhere you sound like Pettersons agent, trying to make room for the baziillion dollar deal. We see you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 16 minutes ago, The Duke said: The trickiness of his deal is that even a max one would only take him to 33 - and as we’ve seen with Miller he’ll likely still be very very good at that point. Qualifying Petey for 1 year would be the most “all in” move of all time - because if he walks for nothing we’re giving up multiple 1st round picks worth of value. In any case, I think Petey and the team are more focused on this year. I said earlier, there’s really no rush before the summer - but they’ll want to get something done right away after the season so they know the budget for the rest of the team. yes this. But it would give us another cup next year. Is Petey going anywhere else after that when he gets UFA? NO hell no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Got the Babych Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 43 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: I mean, I'd give it to him. He is the franchise (along with Hughes). Can't afford to lose him, and prove to Hughes that we're serious about contention. Petey would be a very difficult piece to replace. Some posters on here have shared that he's not the kind of player that comes along very often, so if we lose him, we're not replacing the player for sure. I think it also takes a hit with us winning. I'm not convinced that Miller can be the man moving forward. Petey is still 25 yo, unlike Miller, who's entering into the other side of his 30's. Petey and Hughes are going to be the guys. So we need to lock them up. For me, whatever it takes, until it doesn't make sense in terms of roster construction. If there's no money going to the rest of the roster, they're not going to be winning much games. To be clear, I love Petey on our team. A lot. But the situation is, and I'm very confident that our very competent mgmt group sees the big picture in the same way, is this: Most teams, after sucking for a decade, have an exciting group of prospects in the pipeline with which to continue building towards a team that can contend for the foreseeable future. That is not us. The interesting path chosen to get us here means that we have a couple of great pieces in place, but no saviors coming from below to fill out the ranks. We have a franchise Dman, and a franchise goalie, which is huge. Petey is not a franchise player on a contender, nor is JTM. They are both star players, but we do not have a franchise forward (compared to contenders). But, there is still a path to a cup. It's difficult, but I guarantee it is the path PA is going down, and that is having a forward group that is not superstar level, but a committee of stars that, together, punch above their weight. PA has done well so far on this, finding value in support players that are largely carrying the team currently, but many are temporary unfortunately for the very fact that they are outplaying the stars and their contracts. Based on that, there is no way PA pays EP franchise player money based on "future potential". Simply no room for paying now for a best case scenario later. And yes, I'm drinking. I'll sign off, happy new year's to you all! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T. Demko Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 6 hours ago, high flying Vee said: Luke and Jack for Thatcher and Elias? Haha probably easier for NJ to overpay to get 1 Hughes then for us to pry 2 Hughes. No I would not trade our Hughes, but if they offered Bratt, Nemec and 2nd... do we pull the trigger? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 1 hour ago, Tusk said: what if Alvin and Chicago already hatched a deal for Bedard and their next first (unprotected) 1 hour ago, Tusk said: Its about the only way to make all Vancouver happy with letting Petey go. 1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said: lol the Chicago fan base would riot. Bedard is worth way more than EP even right now and u want them to throw in a first on top lol the only chance we have at bedard is prolly either ufa or the last year of his rfa like Matthew tkachuk its not that far fetched knowing what Alvin has done. And if that first ends up being the Celebrini brother what a win. Even if Chicago doesnt end up bottom, Alvin has enough in his basket to make it happen. Wouldnt you give up Petterson for a shot at that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 Just now, Got the Babych said: To be clear, I love Petey on our team. A lot. But the situation is, and I'm very confident that our very competent mgmt group sees the big picture in the same way, is this: Most teams, after sucking for a decade, have an exciting group of prospects in the pipeline with which to continue building towards a team that can contend for the foreseeable future. That is not us. The interesting path chosen to get us here means that we have a couple of great pieces in place, but no saviors coming from below to fill out the ranks. We have a franchise Dman, and a franchise goalie, which is huge. Petey is not a franchise player on a contender, nor is JTM. They are both star players, but we do not have a franchise forward (compared to contenders). But, there is still a path to a cup. It's difficult, but I guarantee it is the path PA is going down, and that is having a forward group that is not superstar level, but a committee of stars that, together, punch above their weight. PA has done well so far on this, finding value in support players that are largely carrying the team currently, but many are temporary unfortunately for the very fact that they are outplaying the stars and their contracts. Based on that, there is no way PA pays EP franchise player money based on "future potential". Simply no room for paying now for a best case scenario later. And yes, I'm drinking. I'll sign off, happy new year's to you all! Let's sum it up and get real, lost to Golden Helmets, lost to Avalanche, lost to NYR, lost to Flyers twice, lost to Leafs, lost to NJ, is 1-1 against Dallas, is 1-1 against the middling Minny Wild, is 1-1 against middling Calgary Dumpster Fires, and is 3-1 against the MIGHTY SJ cartilage fish. Yup, that is all screaming legitimate Stanley Cup contender to me. lol. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 4 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said: Let's sum it up and get real, lost to Golden Helmets, lost to Avalanche, lost to NYR, lost to Flyers twice, lost to Leafs, lost to NJ, is 1-1 against Dallas, is 1-1 against the middling Minny Wild, is 1-1 against middling Calgary Dumpster Fires, and is 3-1 against the MIGHTY SJ cartilage fish. Yup, that is all screaming legitimate Stanley Cup contender to me. lol. Lets sell the farm on PETTERSON or, can we at least be smart. Look at JTM and Boeser and Hughes contracts. Even Demko. These are franchise players. If we can get alot for petey beause he is greedy we take the treats over the trick 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sxqhfeh Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 9 minutes ago, Tusk said: Lets sell the farm on PETTERSON or, can we at least be smart. Look at JTM and Boeser and Hughes contracts. Even Demko. These are franchise players. If we can get alot for petey beause he is greedy we take the treats over the trick I remember once Jeff Paterson said the Canucks aren't a true cup contender until guys like PDG are on their 4th line or extra skaters. Happy with the way they've started this year but they just aren't a serious contender yet. so I agree with you 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. 8 year guaranteed contracts are bad for the league and I hate them. It’s a huge gamble on potential future performance and they often don’t age well. I would not commit $90m to Petey right now. So I hope the talk of 8x$11m or higher is just talk, and his actual deal is 3-4 years. He’s super skilled and competitive but I’m not confident he can be a #1 center for this team consistently enough to throw the bank at him. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 1 Share Posted January 1 20 minutes ago, sxqhfeh said: Let's sum it up and get real, lost to Golden Helmets, lost to Avalanche, lost to NYR, lost to Flyers twice, lost to Leafs, lost to NJ, is 1-1 against Dallas, is 1-1 against the middling Minny Wild, is 1-1 against middling Calgary Dumpster Fires, and is 3-1 against the MIGHTY SJ cartilage fish. Yup, that is all screaming legitimate Stanley Cup contender to me. lol. Those seem like all the teams we want to think we are not a problem, they can beat the canucks no problem, 4 games straight no problem Is it all in the plan for the playoffs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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