LillStrimma Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 3 hours ago, NHL97OneTimer said: EP is fantastic.....but not 150% of the JT contract or Hughes contract. He can single handedly win games but he can also single-handedly kill the future of this franchise with a crippling contract. No thanks. People will say that the cap is going up but what they're ignoring is that EP's salary will set the benchmark for all other contracts on the team.....Quinn, Lindholm......Demko. It just doesn't work. The 2010 team was amazing because they had the Sedins, Kesler, Burrows and Luongo all on team-friendly contracts (at least $ / yr). Quinn will take every single penny he can get. Especially since he can take the high road and be happy. Try give him less money. And he don’t give a damn what Petey gets. Petey is the only superstar the Canucks can be sure to keep, not Hughes. So everyone that wants to trade Petey, in four years we can look like the Kraken. Not a single superstar present but, fine, a good team. But not a Stanley Cup winner… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 13 hours ago, Provost said: The fact an incompetent GM put the team in a cap bind and couldn’t sign him to a max term contract like that while he was under club control. They we’re willing to sign longer deals according to their agent, it might have just cost us a million more per guy at the time to buy the UFA years. Those bridge deals for Petterson and Hughes will hurt the team for the entire winning window we may have. The terms walked the guys to having complete leverage. Petterson could simply take an arb award and walk to free agency. Hughes will still be in his prime and a UFA when his deal is up, he will be able to get a max term extension for mega dollars that will likely become an anchor by the end. Both were reportedly on the table, this is what EP wanted. Finding an extra million wouldn't have been difficult, the team wasn't that cash strapped. At the time, the sentiment was actually "hurray!!" "now we can sign EP throughout his entire prime his next deal!!"...., it was always on the table, the only thing that wasn't, a medium term deal that took him straight to free agency. Same thing with Brock, a long term deal was also on the table, they were just so far off JB didn't bite. Imagine if JB relented? 7..5-8 x 8 yikes. EP wasn't convinced he wanted to sign. And bet on himself which worked. Edit: As for Brock, remember that off season, when the panic set in that we spent more then 7 left in the cap? And then less then six remained .. Yet Brock hadn't re-signed. Another thing, staggering big deals, is always easier to manage. When QHs is due ... that's always been our window. Maybe yes it would have worked out better for our window if EP signed a long term deal. He didn't want to. Can't force him. Clubs done everything possible at this point to sell their case to EP. It's possible, like Brocks qualifying offer not actually happening, same thing with the 12 million depending on the rest of this season. Team can change their mind. Edited February 24 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 hours ago, LillStrimma said: Quinn will take every single penny he can get. Especially since he can take the high road and be happy. Try give him less money. And he don’t give a damn what Petey gets. Petey is the only superstar the Canucks can be sure to keep, not Hughes. So everyone that wants to trade Petey, in four years we can look like the Kraken. Not a single superstar present but, fine, a good team. But not a Stanley Cup winner… QHs also signed a term deal. EP did not. Agree we need to be patient as fans. We want to win a cup more then placate a mercurial star player. Not player is above the team. As for winning a cup, pretty sure most of us are aware the cup window is the duration of QHs and Demko's deal. And that the odds of that go up considerably with EP on the team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, IBatch said: Both were reportedly on the table, this is what EP wanted. Finding an extra million wouldn't have been difficult, the team wasn't that cash strapped. At the time, the sentiment was actually "hurray!!" "now we can sign EP throughout his entire prime his next deal!!"...., it was always on the table, the only thing that wasn't, a medium term deal that took him straight to free agency. Same thing with Brock, a long term deal was also on the table, they were just so far off JB didn't bite. Imagine if JB relented? 7..5-8 x 8 yikes. EP wasn't convinced he wanted to sign. And bet on himself which worked. Edit: As for Brock, remember that off season, when the panic set in that we spent more than mN7 left in the cap? And then less then six remained .. Yet Brock hadn't re-signed. Another thing, staggering big deals, is always easier to manage. When QHs is due ... that's always been our window. Maybe yes it would have worked out better for our window if EP signed a long term deal. He didn't want to. Can't force him. Clubs done everything possible at this point to sell their case to EP. It's possible, like Brocks qualifying offer not actually happening, same thing with the 12 million depending on the rest of this season. Team can change their mind. No, the agent did many interviews during that process and it kept coming back to the Canucks being in cap trouble, and just not being able to afford longer term deals. The team had about $15 million in cap space including the expected LTIR. No, the team couldn’t find the $2-3 million to sign them to max terms deals, and plenty of people were concerned about the ramifications of how the term affected the long term cap for the team. Saving a little when the team wasn’t a contender so that they would be spending a lot more when the team could really be in a winning window was always a problem. The news stories at the time confirm all that. https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/canucks-contracts-for-pettersson-and-hughes-made-official-what-are-the-implications-4478883 https://theathletic.com/2862407/2021/10/04/drance-why-fair-contract-outcomes-for-elias-pettersson-quinn-hughes-raise-the-stakes-on-canucks-season/ https://canucksarmy.com/news/amp/good-bad-ugly-short-term-deal-quinn-hughes https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-hughes-pettersson-contract-negotiations-concerns/ 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 (edited) 2 hours ago, Provost said: No, the agent did many interviews during that process and it kept coming back to the Canucks being in cap trouble, and just not being able to afford longer term deals. The team had about $15 million in cap space including the expected LTIR. No, the team couldn’t find the $2-3 million to sign them to max terms deals, and plenty of people were concerned about the ramifications of how the term affected the long term cap for the team. Saving a little when the team wasn’t a contender so that they would be spending a lot more when the team could really be in a winning window was always a problem. The news stories at the time confirm all that. https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/canucks-hockey/canucks-contracts-for-pettersson-and-hughes-made-official-what-are-the-implications-4478883 https://theathletic.com/2862407/2021/10/04/drance-why-fair-contract-outcomes-for-elias-pettersson-quinn-hughes-raise-the-stakes-on-canucks-season/ https://canucksarmy.com/news/amp/good-bad-ugly-short-term-deal-quinn-hughes https://thehockeywriters.com/canucks-hughes-pettersson-contract-negotiations-concerns/ That's supposition. Look what Allvin did. He bought out OEL. Look what JB did when his goofy dealings with Toffoli, Tanev, OEL 1.0 etc ... traded for Schmidt. What was a "max term" deal going to look like for EP at the time. Maybe 1 to 1.5 more. Let's be real, QHs took his. And EP had them on the table too. Just like Brock did. I find it very hard to believe, that EP was only offered a bridge. And again, the idea of being able to sign EP to a bridge, and then re-sign him for another 8 years, wasn't bad news. Yet here we are, freaking out if we do, or if we don't. Seen this story before. With the Sedins. With Kesler. With Luongo especially, and with Brock as well. And with JT Miller. It will, or won't happen. Don't think we are doomed either way. Also on OEL done, Garland the whipping boy has turned it around. Ilya Mikheyev is turning into something ugly cap wise. Edited February 24 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 7 hours ago, LillStrimma said: Quinn will take every single penny he can get. Especially since he can take the high road and be happy. Try give him less money. And he don’t give a damn what Petey gets. Petey is the only superstar the Canucks can be sure to keep, not Hughes. So everyone that wants to trade Petey, in four years we can look like the Kraken. Not a single superstar present but, fine, a good team. But not a Stanley Cup winner… The fans will turn on Hughes in 3 years just like they have turned on Petey. Remember, both players held out of training camp at the same time for new contracts and were in Michigan watching NCAA games while the rest of the team was training for the new season. And both players have the same agent too. 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtemChubarov Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 trade him for Hughes! Hughes twins! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijjibo Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Just now, ArtemChubarov said: trade him for Hughes! Hughes twins! NJ might have something to say about that. Something like "pound sand and never call us again" 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 8 hours ago, LillStrimma said: Quinn will take every single penny he can get. Especially since he can take the high road and be happy. Try give him less money. And he don’t give a damn what Petey gets. Petey is the only superstar the Canucks can be sure to keep, not Hughes. So everyone that wants to trade Petey, in four years we can look like the Kraken. Not a single superstar present but, fine, a good team. But not a Stanley Cup winner… Yes, Quinn will be handsomely rewarded for his elite skills. Hopefully the Canucks will be considered a top SC contender by the time a new contract is due as he will be eager to win a cup for Vancouver. The salary cap will be much higher in 3yrs and the overall team cap hit will be lower. With a new group of elc/rfa on bridge contracts, along with appropriate veteran signings, it shouldn't be a problem keeping Quinn. I doesn't matter whether Nuck fans want to trade or sign Petey; the final decision will be decided by EP and the management team. As I don't buy all the rumours and speculations floating around about Petey, I am hopeful that Alvin will sign him in the offseason. Although, I really wouldn't blame him if he left for another team that didn't have such an intense fan base. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rip The Mesh Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 Wade though it a bit and it's looking like the man is either, likely, going to be the highest paid Canuck ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: The fans will turn on Hughes in 3 years just like they have turned on Petey. Remember, both players held out of training camp at the same time for new contracts and were in Michigan watching NCAA games while the rest of the team was training for the new season. And both players have the same agent too. I doubt it. Hughes is borderline generational. Not only that, even when the team is struggling you can see Hughes working his ass off as the captain of this team. If anybody deserves a blank cheque on this team, it's Hughes. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 12 minutes ago, HKSR said: I doubt it. Hughes is borderline generational. Not only that, even when the team is struggling you can see Hughes working his ass off as the captain of this team. If anybody deserves a blank cheque on this team, it's Hughes. No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HKSR Posted February 24 Popular Post Share Posted February 24 4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... The difference is you can see Hughes working his ass off even during this slump. It's not like he's lighting it up right now, but most people are happy with him considering he IS the defence for this team. I think a lot of people were unhappy with Bure because at the time, the consensus is he wanted out. Of course fans will turn on a player that wants to leave. No player would be immune to a fan base turning on him if the player wants to abandon the team. Hughes will be a UFA if he waits until the offseason to negotiate. That'll tell us he wants to entertain offers from other teams, in other words, looking to jump ship. If that happens, yes, fans will turn on him just as they would any other player in this league that abandons their team as a captain. Remember, this is Petey not coming to the table. Not the Canucks. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 10 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... At the end of Hughes contract, he’s a UFA. If he doesn’t re-sign before it ends, the Canucks have to trade him to recoup whatever. Can’t let him walk away for nothing. It’ll set the Canucks back a lot. Would probably signal a rebuild by then. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 minute ago, BPA said: At the end of Hughes contract, he’s a UFA. If he doesn’t re-sign before it ends, the Canucks have to trade him to recoup whatever. Can’t let him walk away for nothing. It’ll set the Canucks back a lot. Would probably signal a rebuild by then. Exactly. It's a totally different situation to Petey. If Hughes came out in his final year and said he's not negotiating until the offseason, he's basically saying he wants to exercise his rights as a UFA. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 7 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... Bure was a special talent. But he also had quirks. He loved his privacy, which makes sense. But a popular high scoring winger that shuns the spotlight doesn't mix well in a Canadian market. I think he turned his back on Vancouver just as much as any fans turned on him. Money seems to be the common factor. I understand why Petey wants to wait until the offseason. But at the same time to say it's not a distraction, when clearly something is weighing on him. You think if it was just done, it would be one less thing on Petey's mind. I'm not a friend or family member, so I don't know what makes Petey tick. He clearly likes his privacy and summers in Sweden away from everything. No one has issues with that. In fact him training with Hogs has probably helped Hogs immensely. I think we're just concerned that another team my try to poach him. And this fanbase (like most) appreciates hard work and loyalty. Having Petey be nonchalant about the contract, just creates anxiety amongst the fans. Petey's variable output like he's world beater some nights. Quiet the next. Probably creates more anxiety. Is it rational? No. Is it understandable? Yes. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... Funny, I've never heard or read that. Still, he'll get to play hockey often enough with any international games in the coming years. The Canucks are Quinn's team and if they manage to develop into a clear contender, Quinn will want to be a part of it; even if it means signing for a lesser term. Dreaming of playing on an NHL team with your bros, is something to do later on in your career. I would think that being such a significant part of building a SC contender, almost from scratch, would be extremely meaningful to Quinn. Something to be very proud of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Grit Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: The fans will turn on Hughes in 3 years just like they have turned on Petey. Remember, both players held out of training camp at the same time for new contracts and were in Michigan watching NCAA games while the rest of the team was training for the new season. And both players have the same agent too. 3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... Well said. I been typing, trying to spit this out for a hour. Meeting Pettersson's demands gonna cripple next year's roster, though he's not playing like he cares much past a rat's arse. Believing our present, moody push-overs, can fight for a Cup, exists only in a fan fantasyland. Hold-outs offer up unexpected windows into a players' base character, Alvin's too smart not to have noticed. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 22 minutes ago, HKSR said: The difference is you can see Hughes working his ass off even during this slump. It's not like he's lighting it up right now, but most people are happy with him considering he IS the defence for this team. I think a lot of people were unhappy with Bure because at the time, the consensus is he wanted out. Of course fans will turn on a player that wants to leave. No player would be immune to a fan base turning on him if the player wants to abandon the team. Hughes will be a UFA if he waits until the offseason to negotiate. That'll tell us he wants to entertain offers from other teams, in other words, looking to jump ship. If that happens, yes, fans will turn on him just as they would any other player in this league that abandons their team as a captain. Remember, this is Petey not coming to the table. Not the Canucks. You don't think Petey works his ass off? How do you score 100 points in this league without having a great work ethic? Can you explain that? The fans have been turning on Petey for awhile now, ever since he signed his current contract. Some were even calling for him to go to the AHL at one point. This is not something new. It's been happening for awhile now... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 9 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: You don't think Petey works his ass off? How do you score 100 points in this league without having a great work ethic? Can you explain that? The fans have been turning on Petey for awhile now, ever since he signed his current contract. Some were even calling for him to go to the AHL at one point. This is not something new. It's been happening for awhile now... That’s the case with any player. If you make the big bucks you get more scrutiny. Same as Boeser, Myers, Kuz, OEL, Mik, Miller. You don’t see people complaining about Hogz, Joshua, Demko. Because they are playing well above their cap hit. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 50 minutes ago, BPA said: That’s the case with any player. If you make the big bucks you get more scrutiny. Same as Boeser, Myers, Kuz, OEL, Mik, Miller. You don’t see people complaining about Hogz, Joshua, Demko. Because they are playing well above their cap hit. Even Garland has his fans now. Who'd have guessed, a year ago he was a waste of cap space. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: You don't think Petey works his ass off? How do you score 100 points in this league without having a great work ethic? Can you explain that? The fans have been turning on Petey for awhile now, ever since he signed his current contract. Some were even calling for him to go to the AHL at one point. This is not something new. It's been happening for awhile now... Bottomline is that Petey is not willing to negotiate right now. That in itself is a significant detriment to building the best team possible this year and into the future. The only reasons he has for not coming to the table now are reasons that are personal in nature. I think people would feel a LOT differently if he was willing to negotiate right now and not wait until the season is over. It's a selfish decision. Not saying he's not entitled to do that, but it comes with fan and media scrutiny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon Face Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said: No doubt he is borderline generational. However, what if he does the same thing as Petey, and decides not to negotiate in his last year of the contract during the season, and wants to wait until the offseason? What happens then? He has the same agent as Petey, they both held out at the same time with their prior contracts. So what would be the difference? Hughes has mentioned many times that he wants to play with his brothers. Trust me, the fan base of this city turns on everyone, even Pavel Bure, who was also borderline generational. If you think they won't also turn on Hughes, then you are kidding yourself. Especially if he goes into a slump... I am big Pettersson fan and supporter.Problem with him (money on the side)is that he waiting super team to be build around him.He forget he is the part of that team.First to commit.Fo showed they are willing to do there part,and they are top executives in the NHL.What more does he want?Problem he create is that the longer we wait,less we can get for him.We cant afford that.Plus how players who need contract feel about him?They cant get there money before he commit.Complicated as hell 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 2 hours ago, BPA said: That’s the case with any player. If you make the big bucks you get more scrutiny. Same as Boeser, Myers, Kuz, OEL, Mik, Miller. You don’t see people complaining about Hogz, Joshua, Demko. Because they are playing well above their cap hit. Perception is everything! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted February 24 Share Posted February 24 4 hours ago, Rip The Mesh said: Wade though it a bit and it's looking like the man is either, likely, going to be the highest paid Canuck ever. He was always going to be our highest paid player... Until we extend Hughes anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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