[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Coconuts]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Thats nuts though isn't it? I mean am I way off base? Petey is an amazing player, but he isn't Matthews, he isn't McDavid, he isn't Mackinnon. I really like the player, but I just don't see it.

Maybe I'm alone here. What does that do to the dynamic of the room too? If a guy like petey is making 50% more than a guy like Miller who just signed last year?

 

Pettersson is a 100 point player who could also be a Selke threat if he improves his faceoffs, there aren't many of those in the league. Him and Hughes are the engines of this team, he could absolutely be up there with Matthews, MacKinnon and so on as far as cap hit goes. 

 

If Pettersson is smart he'll take a 12M+ deal for 4-5 years and leave room to cash in again on a retirement after the cap has continued to rise. 

 

Just wait til Hughes's deal is up, particularly if he wins any hardware between now and then. He'd likely command more than Dahlin just got if he keeps it up, particularly with the cap rising.

[Chickenspear]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

And didn't care if he liked it

 

[Coryberg]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Petey is an amazing player, but he isn't Matthews, he isn't McDavid, he isn't Mackinnon.

You are right. Petey (25 points) isn’t Matthews, (19 points), isn't Mcdavid (12 points) and isn't Mackinnon (18 points).

[The Lock]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Thats nuts though isn't it? I mean am I way off base? Petey is an amazing player, but he isn't Matthews, he isn't McDavid, he isn't Mackinnon. I really like the player, but I just don't see it.

Maybe I'm alone here. What does that do to the dynamic of the room too? If a guy like petey is making 50% more than a guy like Miller who just signed last year?

 

I'm think you're overthinking the dynamic. Picture yourself as Miller for a moment. If you see Petey putting up as many, if not more points than Matthews, McDavid, or MacKinnon, are you really going to be that jealous if he's making that much more than you or are you going to be happy for the guy?

 

Do you ever see Draisaitl complain about McDavid being paid 4mil more than him? These are adults we're talking about, not petty kids.

Edited November 15, 2023 by The Lock

[J-23]

45 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Pettersson is a 100 point player who could also be a Selke threat if he improves his faceoffs, there aren't many of those in the league. Him and Hughes are the engines of this team, he could absolutely be up there with Matthews, MacKinnon and so on as far as cap hit goes. 

 

If Pettersson is smart he'll take a 12M+ deal for 4-5 years and leave room to cash in again on a retirement after the cap has continued to rise. 

 

Just wait til Hughes's deal is up, particularly if he wins any hardware between now and then. He'd likely command more than Dahlin just got if he keeps it up, particularly with the cap rising.

An injured Pettersson is one of the best players in the league right now.

 

We will be lucky if the contact is anything less than 12 million.

[JayDangles]

32 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

You are right. Petey (25 points) isn’t Matthews, (19 points), isn't Mcdavid (12 points) and isn't Mackinnon (18 points).

I suppose we have strayed far away from my initial post where I acknowledged his very high point totals, but expanded on some other reasons they are particularly high this year. (Boes, Miller and Hughes all having career years, which means other players will benefit from that) just as an example. I also acknowledged his 2-way play.

In the long run, I'm happy to eat crow if Petey continues to elevate his game even more and becomes that game changer player type player.

[Captain insano]

4 hours ago, JayDangles said:

I might be in the minority here, so try not to jump all over me.

BUT

I'm nervous about signing Petey to big money long term. The positives are that he is young, he is leading the team and league in scoring, and he is a great 2-way forward.

The negatives for me are that he isn't exactly a "game changer" type player. He doesn't throw the team on his back and take over a game. He is prone to the disappearing act. He seems to go through slumps where he appears to be struggling mentally. Like now. He isn't smiling at all when he scores. There's something going on there. He isn't showing quick movements and making those little ticky tacky plays like he used to.

Petey seems to be riding the high scoring because other guys like Boes, Hughes and Miller are having career years and are finishing the plays and Petey is picking up 2nd assists.

 

Again, I'm not saying Petey isn't an amazing player. But I just have a gut feeling, there's something missing and paying him 11+million long term concerns me.

Obviously i'm not advocating to trade him or let him walk... I just really hope management is taking a conservative and calculated approach to contract negotiations, and not just paying based on scoring stats.

 

Wowa! Pettersson has potential to be the best Canuck forward of all time and you think he’s overrated!!? Dude just turned 25 he has 6-10 years of high quality hockey to be played and we are only in year 2 of him being a true 1c

[The Lock]

10 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I suppose we have strayed far away from my initial post where I acknowledged his very high point totals, but expanded on some other reasons they are particularly high this year. (Boes, Miller and Hughes all having career years, which means other players will benefit from that) just as an example. I also acknowledged his 2-way play.

In the long run, I'm happy to eat crow if Petey continues to elevate his game even more and becomes that game changer player type player.

 

I'm going to straight up say that I don't think this is a hill worth dying on. You're just needlessly poking a beehive that right now deserves to exist. Let the kid play and show us what he's made of. Understand that at his current pace he's worth a lot.

Edited November 15, 2023 by The Lock

[JayDangles]

7 minutes ago, Captain insano said:

Wowa! Pettersson has potential to be the best Canuck forward of all time and you think he’s overrated!!? Dude just turned 25 he has 6-10 years of high quality hockey to be played and we are only in year 2 of him being a true 1c

Overrated is very objective. And I didn't even say he is overrated. I think he is a phenomenal player, I just maybe don't rate him exactly the same as others. Some folks are putting him at $12.5-$13m, I just don't see him that high. But don't twist my words and make it seem like I'm calling him dog shit.

[JayDangles]

2 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

I'm going to straight up say that I don't think this is a hill worth dying on. You're just needlessly poking a beehive that right now deserves to exist. Let the kid play and show us what he's made of. Understand that at his current pace he's worth a lot.

Fair enough. and I wasn't trying to poke a beehive. I was merely throwing my opinion out there to see if there are others who see things similarly. So far that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't take it personally. I'm also listening to what others are saying and allowing myself to consider their rationale and information. If the vast majority of fans, and pseudo cdc'ers completely disagree I'm totally ok with that.

 

[The Lock]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

Fair enough. and I wasn't trying to poke a beehive. I was merely throwing my opinion out there to see if there are others who see things similarly. So far that doesn't seem to be the case. I don't take it personally. I'm also listening to what others are saying and allowing myself to consider their rationale and information. If the vast majority of fans, and pseudo cdc'ers completely disagree I'm totally ok with that.

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I'm not saying don't share your opinion and I might have been a little off in the beehive comment thinking about it. In the end, I'm glad you're considering the opinions of others because not everyone tends to want to do that. Too many people get afraid of "being wrong".

[D.B Cooper]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Why? Your big tough masculine mind couldnt possibly allow you to believe it could be anything other than an injury. I guess to you real men don't have feelings. Just daddy issues.

Wow.  
projecting your insecurities on folks on the internet.  How fun. Great job!
 

These are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars. 
They aren’t going to cry and slack because they have the sads.  
You seem to think that would be totally acceptable though, which goes along with the mentality of the younger generation.  

 

Mental health is incredibly important, but using it as a crutch and an excuse for when things aren’t going your way is gross 

[JayDangles]

Just now, D.B Cooper said:

Wow.  
projecting your insecurities on folks on the internet.  How fun. Great job!
 

These are professional athletes getting paid millions of dollars. 
They aren’t going to cry and slack because they have the sads.  
You seem to think that would be totally acceptable though, which goes along with the mentality of the younger generation.  

 

Mental health is incredibly important, but using it as a crutch and an excuse for when things aren’t going your way is gross 

So "mental health is incredibly important", but only YOU can decide whether it's important. got it.

 

Who are you to decide whether someone is struggling in life or just using it as a crutch?

Why are you so triggered at the thought of an adult making a lot of money having mental health issues.

 

Pretty sure you don't know the difference between mental health and just having "the sads".

 

 

 

 

[D.B Cooper]

13 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

So "mental health is incredibly important", but only YOU can decide whether it's important. got it.

 

Who are you to decide whether someone is struggling in life or just using it as a crutch?

Why are you so triggered at the thought of an adult making a lot of money having mental health issues.

 

Pretty sure you don't know the difference between mental health and just having "the sads".

 

 

 

 

Take it however you want and add whatever you like to what I said.  
I hope you are doing ok.  

[CanucksJay]

1 hour ago, JayDangles said:

Overrated is very objective. And I didn't even say he is overrated. I think he is a phenomenal player, I just maybe don't rate him exactly the same as others. Some folks are putting him at $12.5-$13m, I just don't see him that high. But don't twist my words and make it seem like I'm calling him dog shit.

Im with you.  I think this way as well. 12.5m seems like crazy money but I'm trying to be open minded in terms of salary vs percentage of team cap. 

As long as cap increases, and Pete's cap relative to team cap doesn't go bonkers, it might be ok. 

I feel like we are the old guys that say things like a bowl of pho used to be $5 lol. 

Much like inflation, salary cap rising also matters. 

[JeremyCuddles]

Petey's camp wants around 12mil, 11.25mil on the low end maybe. In which case our window is this season and maybe 4-5 years after he signs his deal. I get everyone loves Petey and think he's Jesus on skates. But how many teams won a cup with a player making 10mil? Now how about someone making 12+ mil? "Cap going up." It'll need to go up a lot to stomach eating a 12mil contract and still icing a competitive team. Which is why I said maybe 5 years after he signs a new deal. By then maybe the cap has gone up enough that 12mil isn't so bad. We also have to remember OEL's buyout is 4.7mil in 2 seasons and lasts two seasons. We are a team that has not drafted well enough to supplement the depth of our roster with cheap ELCs and bridge contracts.

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Petey's camp wants around 12mil, 11.25mil on the low end maybe. In which case our window is this season and maybe 4-5 years after he signs his deal. I get everyone loves Petey and think he's Jesus on skates. But how many teams won a cup with a player making 10mil? Now how about someone making 12+ mil? "Cap going up." It'll need to go up a lot to stomach eating a 12mil contract and still icing a competitive team. Which is why I said maybe 5 years after he signs a new deal. By then maybe the cap has gone up enough that 12mil isn't so bad. We also have to remember OEL's buyout is 4.7mil in 2 seasons and lasts two seasons. We are a team that has not drafted well enough to supplement the depth of our roster with cheap ELCs and bridge contracts.

They say it'll go up to 92m in 2025...

Petey keeps saying he wants to play for a winning team. What if his contract is like 10m with a massive bonus (3-5m) if we win the cup? 

That's be putting money where his mouth is. We get to field a more competitive team and then he gets paid if we win. 

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, CanucksJay said:

Im with you.  I think this way as well. 12.5m seems like crazy money but I'm trying to be open minded in terms of salary vs percentage of team cap. 

As long as cap increases, and Pete's cap relative to team cap doesn't go bonkers, it might be ok. 

I feel like we are the old guys that say things like a bowl of pho used to be $5 lol. 

Much like inflation, salary cap rising also matters. 

Yep, I agree. However every year we spend to the cap and the rationale is that the cap went up, so give players more. I know thats league wide.

I would love for the approach to be we have the core. Petey, Miller, Boes, Hughes, Demko. Instead of them all taking the max and spending to the cap, how does management convince players like Petey to take 10% off. I would argue that the Miller contract now is maybe 20% less than he's worth.

 

If the core all took 10% off that adds up to huge savings. I wonder if today's NHL players have the ability to do something like this.

 

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Petey's camp wants around 12mil, 11.25mil on the low end maybe. In which case our window is this season and maybe 4-5 years after he signs his deal. I get everyone loves Petey and think he's Jesus on skates. But how many teams won a cup with a player making 10mil? Now how about someone making 12+ mil? "Cap going up." It'll need to go up a lot to stomach eating a 12mil contract and still icing a competitive team. Which is why I said maybe 5 years after he signs a new deal. By then maybe the cap has gone up enough that 12mil isn't so bad. We also have to remember OEL's buyout is 4.7mil in 2 seasons and lasts two seasons. We are a team that has not drafted well enough to supplement the depth of our roster with cheap ELCs and bridge contracts.

 

There are going to be more of them as the cap rises, I think some longtime fans are a bit shook by anyone making 10M+ but I reckon it'll be more of a norm as time goes on 

 

Top players eat up cap increases, top players get paid, is the way it goes

[Jess]

If Petey's smart, he'll bet on himself. If Pettersson can get 120 points along with solid defensive play, he's a legitimate Ted Linsday contender. At his age, it wouldn't be crazy to command north of $12.5M IMO. Best player in the league would deserve that kind of money. 6 months ago, I was saying 11-12M, but that number might be creeping above $12M now. The problem is, in order to have long-term success, we have to have some guys take a bit of a discount. Miller likely already took somewhat of a discount, so that definitely helps, but with Hronek coming up, it would be amazing if he would sign for $7M or less instead of pushing for the $8M+ he could maybe get on the open market. With guys like Demko and Hughes eventually being up, if we want to win a cup with this core, those guys will need to take signficant discounts IMO. Demko could be argued as worth $10M+ and Hughes is probably $11M+ in value right now.

[JeremyCuddles]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

There are going to be more of them as the cap rises, I think some longtime fans are a bit shook by anyone making 10M+ but I reckon it'll be more of a norm as time goes on 

 

Top players eat up cap increases, top players get paid, is the way it goes

Yeah, we've had 10mil contract for close to a decade and a half and only just got our 1st team winning with a 10mil player. I don't think this magical cap rise is as much as people make it out to be. So yeah, when we consistently see teams win the cup with 10mil dollar players, a 12mil player is gonna make me uneasy.

[NoCupSyndrome]

On 11/14/2023 at 7:14 PM, stawns said:

If he keeps producing the way he is, he might be pricing himself out of Van

 

Still an RFA which is good and he has to see the benefit received by playing with QH...hopefully he is reasonable on AAV and doesn't go the way of Anson Carter post Sedins

[JeremyCuddles]

Friedman has said he thinks Petey is pushing for a 3-4 year deal. If that's true I am honestly okay trading him for a haul. Super unpopular opinion but it sounds like the bag is more important to Petey than winning. So let him chase the bag elsewhere.

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Friedman has said he thinks Petey is pushing for a 3-4 year deal. If that's true I am honestly okay trading him for a haul. Super unpopular opinion but it sounds like the bag is more important to Petey than winning. So let him chase the bag elsewhere.

 

When would his NTC kick in? After next year or right away? 

[SV.]

7 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

Friedman has said he thinks Petey is pushing for a 3-4 year deal. If that's true I am honestly okay trading him for a haul. Super unpopular opinion but it sounds like the bag is more important to Petey than winning. So let him chase the bag elsewhere.

I mean, with the exception of the start this year, could you really blame him for wanting to keep his options open?

Obviously, we'd all love him to commit long-term, but this team hasn't exactly lived up to their end of the bargain until now.