Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 2 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said: Interesting takes. I'm looking forward to when this whole situation is done, and I have a feeling it will be without Pettersson on the team. crazy how things can change in a market or in managements thinking process. I get the frustration, JR/PA need to ensure that they don't lose all this momentum. I do think you can replace Petey by committee most likely, I can't see us getting a 100 pt player back immediately in any deal tho. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Artemus said: I don't think that your take is unreasonable. You are accepting that EP40 wants to negotiate in "Good Faith" this summer. The problem is that NHL hockey is a business. A large portion of building a roster happens in the very early part of the summer with "Free Agency", the "Entry Draft" and the order that we re-sign our "UFA's and RFA's and the diminishing "Cap Space" after each signing. My take is that it is a very "Prima Donna" like postion for the EP40 group to take as a lot of the Canucks moves this summer will have to wait on Elias Pettersson. Particularly if what we’ve heard is true, that they’ve offered him a very healthy offer. there’s no reason NOT to sign other than he wants out. That’s the signal he’s sending to management and the fans. Edited February 27 by Bardown Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 hours ago, N4ZZY said: I don't think this is true. I think this probably has everything to do with money first, and then to see if the team is a one off in terms of a winner, or is the winning this season sustainable moving forward? I think he signs short term (3-4 years), and then bet's off after that. If it's this difficult and crazy to sign this guy right now, what becomes of the season when he is a UFA and he has the pick of the litter to choose from? If I'm a betting man, I'm betting that he's going to take off after that. if he wanted to bet on himself to be one of the top players in the league.. having stability and a star player along side of you goes a long way.. not sure i'd bet on myself if i'm going to play with new players with 0 nhl experience every year (podz hogs goldobin kuzmenko etc) or players with career high of 32points.. if this is about money.. if the canucks offer 12mil.. what does he want 13-14mil? you really think he's asking for more than mackinnon and matthews? he's betting on himself to have 120 points or 60-70 goals season? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, 88Canuck said: If they go further than that or win the cup, awesome! If they do as you say and he feels as you say, then he’s just being irrational and is having unrealistic expectations. It’s a process going from where the team was at the last few years to playoff success or a cup. Again, if they go further than that or win the cup this year, awesome, but teams typically don’t make the jump this team has made. Usually it’s over 2-3 years. Plus, if he wants that for this team (want to play for a winning team), then he needs to help guide them in that direction, not run for where he thinks the grass is greener. All that being said, I think management, coaches and teammates have proven this year that they’re headed in the correct direction. And, this isn’t to hate on him. He’s one of my favourite players and I’d love for him to sign long term, but he needs to get his head straight re: a few things (personal and team wise) and move forward in a positive direction with the team. All fair points. Though I wouldn't underestimate the impact of being in a losing environment and, as reported by the media, and one where things go toxic in the organization. This year is clearly a step in the right direction but is it enough to compensate the other years when morale was low? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: crazy how things can change in a market or in managements thinking process. I get the frustration, JR/PA need to ensure that they don't lose all this momentum. I do think you can replace Petey by committee most likely, I can't see us getting a 100 pt player back immediately in any deal tho. Agreed, unless we’re able to move him to a bottom feeder who gives us their first rounder. We missed out on Bedard, maybe we can get Celebrini Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, Bardown said: Agreed, unless we’re able to move him to a bottom feeder who gives us their first rounder. We missed out on Bedard, maybe we can get Celebrini Celebrini might turn into Petey in 4-5 years if we're lucky. He'd be part of the new next core along with Willander and Lekkerimaki. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iinatcc Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 23 minutes ago, HKSR said: Difference is Matthews signed his deal in Aug 2023, an entire season before the expiry of his current deal. Petey is waiting until his current deal is completely done before even negotiating. If Petey truly wants to win, he would do this management group good by signing before the TDL so they know what the hell they have to work with. An extra $500k or $1m is a big difference. This is an important point. While I get Petey's position it does hinder the team to do anything else. The team can't wait until after the draft on Petey's decision. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Just now, iinatcc said: All fair points. Though I wouldn't underestimate the impact of being in a losing environment and, as reported by the media, and one where things go toxic in the organization. This year is clearly a step in the right direction but is it enough to compensate the other years when morale was low? Not a fan of “I want to be on a winner” this guy isn't a 30 year old Kesler during the start of a rebuild He’s on a team that’s amazingly rebuilt and is capable of going on multiple cup runs. He is one of the best players and should be saying “I’m going to help this team win” His attitude is he’s not responsible for being a leader to help win. he didn’t want the C he doesn’t seem to think it’s part of his responsibility as a 100pt player to lead us to a cup to me it sounds like he doesn’t like the pressure and is happy to get points abs make money. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, Bardown said: I think it may be done already. See my last post, the new management team like to plan ahead (unlike benning), so they can make moves. They are chess players It makes sense that they want to know exactly what kind of capital they have to work with. There are 8 UFAs coming up this offseason, and I'm thinking Rutherford/Alvin want to re-sign Zadorov, Joshua, Blueger and will look to sign Hronek as well. Not knowing how much they'll potentially have to work with would be very frustrating. 6 minutes ago, Bardown said: Petey is hurting them as they can’t plan. This won’t be seen positively. I would bet that this plays into the situation. Might be why his productivity has dipped too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bardown Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 minute ago, Bob Long said: Celebrini might turn into Petey in 4-5 years if we're lucky. He'd be part of the new next core along with Willander and Lekkerimaki. I could see Chicago or Anaheim potentially willing to part with first overall Chicago needs help for Bedard Petey is still young Those 2 as your 1-2 C make sense Chicago jumpstarts their rebuild Anaheim same idea they’ve been awful too long and don’t need a celebrini, they need to start winning now they’ve got Carlson who looks like a Stud they've got Zegras and McTavish Petey brings in a 1c that takes pressure off Carlson. Moves Zegras to the wing Chicago Petey for first over all + Anaheim petey and Mik for first overall plus McTavish I do the Anaheim deal in a heartbeat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, Artemus said: I don't think that your take is unreasonable. You are accepting that EP40 wants to negotiate in "Good Faith" this summer. The problem is that NHL hockey is a business. A large portion of building a roster happens in the very early part of the summer with "Free Agency", the "Entry Draft" and the order that we re-sign our "UFA's and RFA's and the diminishing "Cap Space" after each signing. My take is that it is a very "Prima Donna" like postion for the EP40 group to take as a lot of the Canucks moves this summer will have to wait on Elias Pettersson. If we're taking Petey at his word, which you should take everyone at their word unless proven in trustworthy, management already knew they would have to wait till this summer. Nothing has changed, absolutely nothing. Is it reasonable that management hoped that winning roster would sway Petey to talking earlier then his original stated intention. Sure. But if you got out on a first date and your honey say there's no chance it's ending with boots on the floor, and you get pissy when you go home and have to play a game of solitaire, that's on you. You knew what you were getting into and can't be upset, even though the date went so well you hoped things had changed. You say it's a business, that goes both ways. It's far more logical for Petey to wait till the summer. It's fine if you want to pretend these guys are our friends and bleed blue, but they are not. They are professional athletes who pay millions of dollars to powerful agencies with the soul intention on squeezing every penny out of a contract. Business goes both ways. What really pisses me off, is I reckon half the people bitching about Petey right now also bitch about the media making mountains out of molehills. Nothing has changed since the summer, all this discussion is clicks and likes. The media is only driving this because fans are blowing their top instead of stopping for a minutes and realising that Petey has done nothing expect keep his words he said in the summer. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 15 minutes ago, Bob Long said: Plus he was a free agent signing, we blew no picks on him. Only the possible first, or definite second rounder they could have got, by trading him at last years tdl. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 4 minutes ago, Bardown said: Anaheim petey and Mik for first overall plus McTavish I do the Anaheim deal in a heartbeat Love the idea of McTavish coming here. I don't think we get him (a 3rd oa) and a 1st back. I could see maybe a 2nd and another roster player like Vatrano. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Gurn said: Only the possible first, or definite second rounder they could have got, by trading him at last years tdl. I guess, if that was really a thing? it was a reasonable risk to take imo given how good it looked as a fit last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 Petey missed part of a pre season before, due to contract issues. I believe that shows he will do what suits him best, as a first priority; with all else coming after. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 8 hours ago, N4ZZY said: Dahliwal's comment doesn't make sense. So he says that Canucks get the sense that Petey's not committed to them long term, but then later says that he has no intel? So where did get the information that the Canucks don't get the sense that Petey's not committed to them long term come from? lol. If you're going to pull information out of your ass, Dahliwal, at least lie about it well. Good grief. He said the Canucks aren't getting any indication that petey wants to be here long term. To me that sounds like his side will want a 3 year bridge to UFA and a big contract at age 29. From Petey's side that makes sense, if he signs an 8 year deal now he will be up for a new deal at age 34 and surely won't be in a strong position for another big deal. On the other hand for us that just kicks the can a little further down the road. I for one don't want to rehash the Pettersson holdout drama again in 3 years time. Especially as that one will be a UFA year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 3 minutes ago, Gurn said: Petey missed part of a pre season before, due to contract issues. I believe that shows he will do what suits him best, as a first priority; with all else coming after. I think a big part of that is the agent, who is happy to tell these kids to do stuff like that. It creates a lot of problems for everyone, even the player. But I guess if an extra 500k on top of 10s of millions is the thing, then it is what it is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurn Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 6 minutes ago, Bob Long said: I guess, if that was really a thing? it was a reasonable risk to take imo given how good it looked as a fit last year. That possible first rounder would look good as an ELC next year, or more importantly the 2 years of mega damage from the OEL buy out- which was my main reason for wanting a Kuze trade. Hell of a guy, will likely end up as a solid 30 goal guy, but low cost is going to become very important in a years time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Lock Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 9 hours ago, N4ZZY said: Dahliwal's comment doesn't make sense. So he says that Canucks get the sense that Petey's not committed to them long term, but then later says that he has no intel? So where did get the information that the Canucks don't get the sense that Petey's not committed to them long term come from? lol. If you're going to pull information out of your ass, Dahliwal, at least lie about it well. Good grief. Simple: he doesn't have the information. It's the media looking to create a ruckus through overreacting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Down By the River Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 I don't know why this is so complicated. Pettersson said he wouldn't talk contract until after the season. The season hasn't ended. It is certainly frustrating from a fan/management perspective given that other decisions can't happen without first settling the Pettersson contract. In some ways it is frustrating that Pettersson is this stubborn. But moreso, it is annoying as all hell that we have to hear about this every week from Friedman/Dhaliwal. Certainly there are more important stories in the NHL? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
88Canuck Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 27 minutes ago, iinatcc said: All fair points. Though I wouldn't underestimate the impact of being in a losing environment and, as reported by the media, and one where things go toxic in the organization. This year is clearly a step in the right direction but is it enough to compensate the other years when morale was low? That’s fair! Whether pro athletes or us reg folks, sometimes when you’ve been in that environment for so long, it ends up being enough is enough and nothing can change that. Although, all teams go through ups and downs, so regardless of where he is, he won’t be at the top forever. I guess take the bad with the good if that makes sense. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coryberg Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: All the angst and fighting about Miller, and look how that turned out. Guy wanted to be here, and is a stud performer. Although there are still a few here who don't like the Miller choice over Bo, but thats what a fan base is, a wide range of positions. Difference between Miller and Bo (petey too) is that Miller re-signed before entering his final season. He could have waited, said he wanted to negotiate after the season and used leverage to get bigger money but he wanted to be here and sealed the deal. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 And here's the difference between the Sedins approach and Petey... "The NHL has patiently waited for the Sedin's to list their demands to the Vancouver Canuck brass as to what it would take for them to stay there. And the price might surprise you a little. The Sedin's are seeking an identical long-term contract extension of 12-years, $63 million. Comparisons have been made to fellow Swede, Henrik Zetterberg, and his 12-year, $73 million contract. But don't let that comparison and the amount of money fool you, the Sedin's asking price is relatively, and somewhat surprisingly, low." "Quite frankly, for two players of their caliber, that's a pretty good deal considering what some guys want these days. Now before you jump up and call your team's GM and demand that he call Daniel and Henrik immediately, understand this: The twins have offered that deal to the Canucks, and only the Canucks. It is believed that the two would demand upwards of $7 million a season if (and when) they hit the open market. Call it a home-town discount, if you will." https://bleacherreport.com/articles/202130-sedin-twins-in-toronto-for-brian-burke-the-price-could-be-right Bottomline is the Sedins indicated they wanted to be in Vancouver. JT Miller came out and said he wants to be in Vancouver. Even Bo Horvat did. Petey hasn't said that at all. And now he's not even coming to the table until after the season is over. Yes, he's entitled to that, but don't mistake that for not being selfish with the decision. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 55 minutes ago, HKSR said: Difference is Matthews signed his deal in Aug 2023, an entire season before the expiry of his current deal. Petey is waiting until his current deal is completely done before even negotiating. If Petey truly wants to win, he would do this management group good by signing before the TDL so they know what the hell they have to work with. An extra $500k or $1m is a big difference. Regardless it was a panic and everyone viewed his path to free agency as the fastest guaranteed ticket out of Toronto. Especially when you look at the impact of COVID and how many americans wanted the fuck out of Canada. Or guys like Trouba and Fox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AnthonyG Posted February 27 Share Posted February 27 1 hour ago, Alflives said: Gillis got fired for wanting to rebuild. Wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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