[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said:

I feel your example was dumb. Me not changing my mind based off, what I feel, was a dumb example doesn't make me stubborn. Get over yourself. Your word isn't law, and just because you make a massively hyperbolic statement and someone doesn't bow to you doesn't make them stubborn.

Yeah... sounds like something someone stubborn would say to avoid looking stubborn.

You do realize youre in the vast minority with your view right?

 

That should at least tell you something....

[higgyfan]

12 minutes ago, AnthonyG said:

So you mean to tell me Lindholm on his own is worth… a 39 goal scorer on a team friendly deal… a 1st round pick a conditional 4th round pick that could potentially be a 3rd AND 2 prospects ?

 

Calling Kuzy a 39g scorer is similar to calling Lindholm a 42 g scorer; it happened once, will

it happen again?  Basically, the Canucks didn't think that Kuzy's offensive potential was enough

to make up for his defensive liabilities. 

 

A late 1st, 3rd or 4th and 2 prospects is not a sure thing for the NHL; if the Flames are lucky, they

end up with a player or 2 that make their team in +/-4yrs from now.

 

At the moment, the Canucks need to go far as they can in the playoffs, as the core requires

the experience if the team is ever to become a true contender. Adding Lindy will help them work

towards their goal. He can also be re-signed, if the horrible circumstances that so many fans are

envisioning comes to fruition and Pete moves on.

 

 

 

[MeanSeanBean]

Just now, JayDangles said:

Yeah... sounds like something someone stubborn would say to avoid looking stubborn.

You do realize youre in the vast minority with your view right?

 

That should at least tell you something....

Let me get 2 things straight, you're criticizing me because... 

 

I didn't change my mind because you have what I felt was dumb hyperbole example that I didn't feel was near logical enough to sway me

 

And

 

Because " if you're friends all jumped off a cliff that means you have to as well"?

 

Ok bud, good talk. 

[Provost]

7 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

How though. How is that mind games? No one has been able to answer this question in the slightest.

 

Petey said he wanted to focus on hockey and wait till the summer. Petey is focusing on hockey and top 10 in the league in scoring. Petey keep his word to this point and wants to wait till summer. This seems all straight forward, and I have no idea how people are thinking this is him playing games with the team. I'm litterally asking for anyone to explain the thought process.

 

If you do what you said you're going to do, in my eyes, you aren't playing mind games. But I'm open to be convinced other wise, but the only attempt so far has attempted to equate hockey to a life or death situation, which personally has made me think this is even sillier then I thought it was originally.

The entire "mind games" is just a random invented dumb argument you are all having that has nothing to do with the actual heart of the matter.

His actions are hurting the team and objectively hurting the stated goal he had of just wanting to win.  That is unquestionable.  The team is handcuffed waiting on him to decide to engage.  The team is limited in its ability to make moves or signings. 

His agent has literally already publicly stated in the media that he could sign a one year deal and go to free agency.  That is definitely mind games if you want to use that metric, if they aren't negotiating why is his agent negotiating in the press to exert leverage against the team.  Signing a deal today lets him focus on hockey, not signing a deal means he can't just focus on hockey because it is still an open issue that will be discussed and there will be questions to answer... and it would be discussed in any market in any sport.

It is his right to decide he doesn't want to commit to the team long term, and there are consequences that extend from that decision.  One of the consequences is that the team has to protect the team's interests and that will include making all sorts of contingency plans in the very possible event Petterson doesn't want to extend long term.

The draft is the deadline to me, and the team should start publicly shopping him the moment the season is done.  He can sign any time, and has been able to sign for almost a year now.  He doesn't get to destroy next year's team because of some invented internal decision.

He likely isn't an idiot, and his agent certainly isn't an idiot.  They know very well the ramifications of hurting the team's ability to make moves and decisions going forward, and that is OK with them.  They know that his teammates are sitting there waiting in line for him to sign on the dotted line, they know the entire process of building a winner beyond this year is stuck in neutral waiting for Petterson.  Some of them can't buy apartments, or get their kids signed up for school next year, or be able to plan their lives because they don't know if they will be here or not.  His camp is OK with that.

 

[AnthonyG]

26 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

I'm not crying about anything 

Sure cant stop talking about Benning and any little “mistake” he made. Meanwhile you’re cheering on his team basically. 
Move on bud, hes gone and his impact is still here and largely contributing to our success and will for many years to come. The best rebuild we’ve ever had. 

[HKSR]

45 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Nice question dodge. None of that is mind games. It's still exactly what he said he was going to do. I'm sticking with mind games, because they are your words. You haven't given any logical examples of mind games yet.

 

Saying you're going to do something, and then doing it, is not mind games. If you can explain how he's playing mind games, I'm all ears. If you can't, we can move on.

It is mind games.  Is he staying? Or is he not? Do you have that answer?  All he has said is he's gonna negotiate after the season is over.  No different than a girl saying she'll call ya without actually answering whether or not she still wants to see you.  

If Petey said he will re-sign, but let's work out the details after the season is over, that's a MUCH different approach.  That's a girl saying,  yes I wanna see you again, but let's figure out a time to go out again later this week.

 

Give it up man, it's obvious.  You're just trying to win a dumb argument for the sake of winning one.

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, Provost said:

The entire "mind games" is just a random invented dumb argument you are all having that has nothing to do with the actual heart of the matter.

His actions are hurting the team and objectively hurting the stated goal he had of just wanting to win.  That is unquestionable.  The team is handcuffed waiting on him to decide to engage.  The team is limited in its ability to make moves or signings. 

His agent has literally already publicly stated in the media that he could sign a one year deal and go to free agency.  That is definitely mind games if you want to use that metric, if they aren't negotiating why is his agent negotiating in the press to exert leverage against the team.  Signing a deal today lets him focus on hockey, not signing a deal means he can't just focus on hockey because it is still an open issue that will be discussed and there will be questions to answer... and it would be discussed in any market in any sport.

It is his right to decide he doesn't want to commit to the team long term, and there are consequences that extend from that decision.  One of the consequences is that the team has to protect the team's interests and that will include making all sorts of contingency plans in the very possible event Petterson doesn't want to extend long term.

The draft is the deadline to me, and the team should start publicly shopping him the moment the season is done.  He can sign any time, and has been able to sign for almost a year now.  He doesn't get to destroy next year's team because of some invented internal decision.

He likely isn't an idiot, and his agent certainly isn't an idiot.  They know very well the ramifications of hurting the team's ability to make moves and decisions going forward, and that is OK with them.  They know that his teammates are sitting there waiting in line for him to sign on the dotted line, they know the entire process of building a winner beyond this year is stuck in neutral waiting for Petterson.  Some of them can't buy apartments, or get their kids signed up for school next year, or be able to plan their lives because they don't know if they will be here or not.  His camp is OK with that.

 

I'm only bringing it up as a response to another poster saying he was playing mind games. I agree it's dumb, which is why I'm asking for an example of why it was argued in the first place.

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

It is mind games.  Is he staying? Or is he not? Do you have that answer?  All he has said is he's gonna negotiate after the season is over.  No different than a girl saying she'll call ya without actually answering whether or not she still wants to see you.  

If Petey said he will re-sign, but let's work out the details after the season is over, that's a MUCH different approach.  That's a girl saying,  yes I wanna see you again, but let's figure out a time to go out again later this week.

 

Give it up man, it's obvious.  You're just trying to win a dumb argument for the sake of winning one.

I don't agree with you.

[Bardown]

Something important to consider 

 

Management will have explained to his agent that signing Petey is a priority, that money is not an issue within reason, but that his signing also affects their next moves and as such, while they appreciate he didn’t want to talk in season, it can affect how they run the team.

 

he's the first domino to other signings, trades etc. 

 

The fact he still won’t come to the table to even talk framework and range would imply very heavily, that Petey has no regard for the team.

 

the importance and implications of a signing are material in a cap world and to getting players like Hronek, Joshua, Bleuger done as well. 
 

Petey and his agent would be made aware of this. 
 

to me it just smells of a me only attitude 

Edited February 27 by Bardown

[HKSR]

Just now, MeanSeanBean said:

I don't agree with you.

Totally fair.  We don't need to agree.  Cheers.

[Coconuts]

6 minutes ago, Jester13 said:

12

 

Can we bump that number up a bit 

 

If we can get everyone to escalate we can probably get this thread to 300 pages before something happens 

 

6 minutes ago, MeanSeanBean said:

About Petey? 3/10. Exactly the same as I would have answered if you asked in September.

 

The big, red, shiny panic button doesn't appeal to you? 

[Dom]

This is a big IF, but hypothetically speaking, the right deal comes along.... is he gone at the TDL? 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Bardown said:

Something important to consider 

 

Management will have explained to his agent that signing Petey is a priority, that money is not an issue within reason, but that his signing also affects their next moves and as such, while they appreciate he didn’t want to talk in season, it can affect how they run the teams.

 

he's the first domino to other signings, trades etc. 

 

The fact he still won’t come to the table to even talk framework and range would imply very heavily, that Petey has no regard for the team.

 

the importance and implications of a signing are material in a cap world and getting players like Hronek, Joshua, Bleuger done as well. 
 

Petey and his agent would be made aware of this. 
 

to me it just smells of a me only attitude 

Yeah, it's selfish.  He's entitled to it, but it doesn't mean it's not selfish.

[Strawbone]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

On a scale of one to ten how much are we panicking today? 

 

I'm at zero!

 

Honestly, I trust this management group to either re-sign Petey to a contract that works, or if it comes to it, trade him for some very good assets. I'm fine with either. I used to see Petey as a core, untouchable player on this team but Hughes has leapfrogged him by a good amount in importance to the team's success, and I also put Miller ahead of Petey. I like Petey and he does some magical stuff on the ice, but he's pretty inconsistent and I do feel like the team could be just as good by replacing him with 2 or 3 other really solid players. I'm hoping he blows all our socks off in the playoffs though and shuts everyone up!

[HKSR]

Just now, Dom said:

This is a big IF, but hypothetically speaking, the right deal comes along.... is he gone at the TDL? 

All depends on the deal IMO.

[Bardown]

1 minute ago, Dom said:

This is a big IF, but hypothetically speaking, the right deal comes along.... is he gone at the TDL? 

I doubt it. It’s an offseason / draft day deal. He’s putting up points and they’re making a run. 

[Provost]

1 hour ago, MeanSeanBean said:

As would I, but I'll never get pissy at a person for doing exactly what the said they would do. That's where I'll never agree with this conversations at there current point. Would it be incredibly helpful for Petey to give further insight, obviously. But from day 1 he said he didn't want to talk contract in season. People should be no more upset today then they were in September, but evidently that isn't correct at all.

That is an objectively false statement.

If I stated that I was going to burn down your house while pouring sugar in your gas tank and slapping your partner... you are going to be upset at that.  It harms you, and you are going to get pissy about it.

It doesn't matter that I said that was exactly what I was going to do.

Petterson also said he wanted to play for a winner and that was his priority, his agent also said he could sign a deal any time during the year, his agent also said he could decide to walk to free agency.... you are taking one statement and ignoring all the others.

[VegasCanuck]

Vancouver media: "OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG  THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH PETTERSSON SIGNING LONG TERM IN VANCOUVER....THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE CLICK ON OUR LINKS AND READ OUR STORIES THAT WE INVENTED....

 

Vancouver Fans: "OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG  THE MEDIA SAYS THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH PETTERSSON SIGNING LONG TERM IN VANCOUVER AND THEY ARE NEVER WRONG!!!!!!!!! WE TRUST THEM ABOVE ALL ELSE!!!!! THE SKY IS FALLING THE WORLD IS ENDING SOMEONE TRADE HIM FOR A LATE 1ST ROUND PICK BEFORE WE HAVE NOTHING........................

 

Pettersson: I want to just focus on playing right now and deal with the contract in the summer.

 

Vancouver Management: Everything is fine and good, let's focus on the season, we'll deal with the contract during the summer, it's not a big deal, we have lots of time, he's an RFA....

 

Next day:

Vancouver media: "OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG  THERE'S AN ISSUE WITH PETTERSSON SIGNING LONG TERM IN VANCOUVER....THE SKY IS FALLING EVERYONE CLICK ON OUR LINKS AND READ OUR STORIES THAT WE INVENTED....

 

 

[AnthonyG]

3 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

Calling Kuzy a 39g scorer is similar to calling Lindholm a 42 g scorer; it happened once, will

it happen again?  Basically, the Canucks didn't think that Kuzy's offensive potential was enough

to make up for his defensive liabilities. 

 

A late 1st, 3rd or 4th and 2 prospects is not a sure thing for the NHL; if the Flames are lucky, they

end up with a player or 2 that make their team in +/-4yrs from now.

 

At the moment, the Canucks need to go far as they can in the playoffs, as the core requires

the experience if the team is ever to become a true contender. Adding Lindy will help them work

towards their goal. He can also be re-signed, if the horrible circumstances that so many fans are

envisioning comes to fruition and Pete moves on.

 

 

 

The point was THIS management group and coaching staff knew there were issues, yet the management group held onto a guy no one had a book on other than his 39 goals. Coulda landed a huge return, yet they fucked that up huge. I said after game 1 of watching him, his skating was an instant concern and preached it alllll season. Everyone here ignored it and watched the puck not the play and just drooled over his 39g. Just wasted a huge trade piece that coulda returned serious pieces on his own. Instead we had to package him up with multiple picks AND prospects for a 30 year old pending UFA heading towards his declining years that leaves us either investing cap in his declining years or let him walk and have alllll that shit given away for nothing.

 

[MeanSeanBean]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Can we bump that number up a bit 

 

If we can get everyone to escalate we can probably get this thread to 300 pages before something happens 

 

 

The big, red, shiny panic button doesn't appeal to you? 

Man, I've been a state of cortisol deficiency for 10 years. Our teams in first place, and we're going for a cup this year. I'm enjoying every minute of this season, and Petey scuttlebutt whipped up by the media to get fans talking hasn't changed that in the slightest.

 

Petey is a hell of a player and I hope he retires a Canuck, but I'm not bothered by a situation that hasn't changed at all since last June when the original statement was made.

[Bardown]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Yeah, it's selfish.  He's entitled to it, but it doesn't mean it's not selfish.

Well it’s more about direction. If you want out, quietly tell management. Play hard in the playoffs and help the team that gave you tens of millions to max value. 
 

I find it hard to believe he doesn’t know what he wants to do at this stage. The money is there, the team is winning. He’s trying to flex and it’s childish. 

[MeanSeanBean]

3 minutes ago, Provost said:

That is an objectively false statement.

If I stated that I was going to burn down your house while pouring sugar in your gas tank and slapping your partner... you are going to be upset at that.  It harms you, and you are going to get pissy about it.

It doesn't matter that I said that was exactly what I was going to do.

Petterson also said he wanted to play for a winner and that was his priority, his agent also said he could sign a deal any time during the year, his agent also said he could decide to walk to free agency.... you are taking one statement and ignoring all the others.

Man, people love jumping straight to a life or death situation. Yes. If someone was threatening me or my family I would react. If someone is waiting to sign a sport contract, I'm not. I consider those a far different priority, not even in the same realm. But I guess that's on for not cultivating ever single word I say knowing someone would take it to the most outrages example possible.

Edited February 27 by MeanSeanBean

[Strawbone]

1 minute ago, Bardown said:

I doubt it. It’s an offseason / draft day deal. He’s putting up points and they’re making a run. 

 

When was the last time a team traded away one of their star players at the deadline when they were at or near the top of the league standings and clearly going for a cup? That would be an incredibly bold move.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Strawbone said:

 

I'm at zero!

 

Honestly, I trust this management group to either re-sign Petey to a contract that works, or if it comes to it, trade him for some very good assets. I'm fine with either. I used to see Petey as a core, untouchable player on this team but Hughes has leapfrogged him by a good amount in importance to the team's success, and I also put Miller ahead of Petey. I like Petey and he does some magical stuff on the ice, but he's pretty inconsistent and I do feel like the team could be just as good by replacing him with 2 or 3 other really solid players. I'm hoping he blows all our socks off in the playoffs though and shuts everyone up!

 

That's fair, I'm not overly worried about it either 

 

I don't care if Pettersson is selfish in wanting to wait, it's whatever, management will just have to deal 

 

Yeah, it puts a bit of a damper on their deadline flexibility because they don't know what their cap outlook will look like further down the line, but I'm of the opinion that they shouldn't be making any more large moves anyway 

 

Hronek and Zadorov can wait, if Zadorov really wants to stay it'll get done regardless 

 

I still put Pettersson in the Hughes bracket, nobody was expecting Miller to fall off sooner than later but I still view Pettersson as the guy who will drive things forward as Miller ages and declines 

[JayDangles]

1 minute ago, MeanSeanBean said:

Let me get 2 things straight, you're criticizing me because... 

 

I didn't change my mind because you have what I felt was dumb hyperbole example that I didn't feel was near logical enough to sway me

 

And

 

Because " if you're friends all jumped off a cliff that means you have to as well"?

 

Ok bud, good talk. 

 Sure, my hypothetical was exaggerated, but the principle was what was meant to land with you. When new information arises that makes the original decision a "negative", it is completely justifiable to expect someone to change their mind. 

 

So, I'm criticizing you because you have no ability to absorb even an ounce of new information. Instead you're focusing on the exaggeration so you don't have to use the logic behind it.

 

Secondly, having the ability myself to look past your exaggerated cliff example and see what you are trying to imply, instead of whining about how I'm not jumping off a life and death cliff.... I am not worried about following what others are doing, but I AM able to consider that if my way of thinking is of the minority, perhaps I should at least re-evaluate myself in order to ensure I haven't missed some crucial bit of information.

I would hate to mistake thinking that I'm in the minority but i'm right with just being stubborn and alone.