[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Mike Vanderhoek]

6 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Anything less than five years, send him packing. We will be better in the long run, that greediness is contagious and will spread to the rest of the roster. We need guys who are serious about winning a cup.   

 

Pettersson seems fairly serious about team success to me. We should want elite talents who are serious about winning, dedicated to winning and doing the little things to be successful. I saw recently after a win he went into Tocchet's office and apologized for his play that game and owned his errors in that game.

 

It is not greed to have agents hired by you to perform the business aspect of a deal. Fans might not like to hear about the dollar amounts or can't even relate but trying to find the best deal does not make one greedy, its being diligent, same goes for the team.

 

You don't put your best player or one of your best on the trade market in their prime because they just accepted what ? a 3 to 4 year extension to remain in this city playing for this team. It is absurd. He is one of the few major cogs that will bring this city its best chance at success.

[J-23]

2 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

A player can be serious about winning a cup, and can also know their value and not be afraid to ask for it and be willing to stand their ground until there's agreement all-round.  The two are not mutually exclusive.

Give Pettersson his top dollars for the next 3-5 years.

 

100 point players who can be elite on the defensive end are very hard to find.

 

53 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Or CBJ sends us Fantilli and Jiricek? I

If Pettersson did want out, this would be an interesting trade proposal. 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Just now, Coconuts said:

every player also wants to get paid.

 

*GASP* You mean, they don't want to play this sport for entertaining a paying audience for free?  

 

[Bob Long]

15 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Sure, theoretically a deal could be out there, GM's have indeed made some weird moves. But yeah, I think the magnitude of what it'd cost to acquire Pettersson would have a lot of teams out of the running. 

 

More than likely you're right, we'd have to take assets like young NHL'ers, picks, and likely a degree of players/caps coming back. A Pettersson trade would probably be a hodgepodge. We'd have to either be content with such a deal or set on using pieces to try and make subsequent moves. All in all, I think it could be very hard to get fair value for Pettersson in either a direct or roundabout manner. One could argue that the more pieces involved, the better the odds things work out, but one could also argue that more pieces likely makes each piece less valuable than fewer pieces would potentially be. Could very well fizzle out. 

 

It's why I have a hard time seeing us win a Pettersson trade, he has to be willing to play ball with any team that's interested in acquiring him. 

 

 

we couldn't win it initially, only via a 2nd smart move in addition. 

 

So lets say for yuks: Petey, 1/3 retained to the Rangers for Laffy, Kakko, a 1st.

 

We could then turn around and leverage that 1st for another very good defensive C.

 

Did we win? if we get to the cup finals. 

 

 

15 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

 

Just wait til Hughes's deal is up some folks don't want to pay him market value either. Or Demko, or Boeser if he keeps this up.

 

this is why we have a window for 3 seasons. 

[Coconuts]

9 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

*GASP* You mean, they don't want to play this sport for entertaining a paying audience for free?  

 

 

They get paid in the hopes and dreams of their respective fanbases!

 

6 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we couldn't win it initially, only via a 2nd smart move in addition. 

 

So lets say for yuks: Petey, 1/3 retained to the Rangers for Laffy, Kakko, a 1st.

 

We could then turn around and leverage that 1st for another very good defensive C.

 

Did we win? if we get to the cup finals. 

 

 

 

this is why we have a window for 3 seasons. 

 

If our window is three seasons such a trade probably doesn't help us get to the final though, Pettersson's being a Canuck gives us our best chance at winning a cup during this window and that's the crux of the matter. A Rangers 1st would likely be middling to late, Laffy is off to a good start but has plenty to prove, Kakko is young and could be more than he is but he also has 2 points in 14 games despite putting up a career high of 40 last season. 

 

Management is in a tough spot if they truly want to chase a cup, playing ball with Pettersson is their best chance at bringing Vancouver a championship. They'd be hard pressed to immediately replace what he's brough the last season and a bit. Maybe they could get a hodgepodge, but would that help them capitalize on having Demko and Hughes on smaller contracts than they'll inevitably command?

 

I'm not going to presume that us winning a Pettersson trade is impossible, or that our finding a deal that could help us go deep sooner than later is impossible, but I don't think such a trade is likely. But that's just my two cents. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Coconuts

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

we couldn't win it initially, only via a 2nd smart move in addition. 

 

So lets say for yuks: Petey, 1/3 retained to the Rangers for Laffy, Kakko, a 1st.

 

We could then turn around and leverage that 1st for another very good defensive C.

 

Did we win? if we get to the cup finals. 

 

I don't know about you, but the team (and especially the core of EP40, QH43, and a few others) are showing very good chemistry right now.  This type of chemistry doesn't happen overnight, even with a taskmaster like Dick Tocch.  Trading away our 1C at this stage will disrupt the existing chemistry of PP1, EP40's line, and the PK that he and JTM9 currently run, as well as take away the hockey intelligence he brings on a nightly basis.

 

Did I mention this type of chemistry doesn't happen overnight?

 

The setback you'd be looking at would probably be months-long, so you might as well write off the season if that were to happen.  And there's no guarantees that what you get back in return can adequately bridge that gap.  Especially when you have a guy that thinks the game as EP40 does.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

They get paid in the hopes and dreams of their respective fanbases!

 

 

If our window is three seasons such a trade probably doesn't help us get to the final though, Pettersson's being a Canuck gives us our best chance at winning a cup during this window and that's the crux of the matter. A Rangers 1st would likely be middling to late, Laffy is off to a good start but has plenty to prove, Kakko is young and could be more than he is but he also has 2 points in 14 games despite putting up a career high of 40 last season. 

 

Management is in a tough spot if they truly want to chase a cup, playing ball with Pettersson is their best chance at bringing Vancouver a championship. They'd be hard pressed to immediately replace what he's brough the last season and a bit. Maybe they could get a hodgepodge, but would that help them capitalize on having Demko and Hughes on smaller contracts than they'll inevitably command?

 

I'm not going to presume that us winning a Pettersson trade is impossible, or that our finding a deal that could help us go deep sooner than later is impossible, but I don't think such a trade is likely. But that's just my two cents. 

 

agreed, working with Petey is option A, B and C. D is the trade route. 

 

Laffy does interest me though... IF he's just breaking out he could be a top 20 scorer. Not Petey like but if you also added a gritty C? maybe overall we're not taking a step back?

 

[Bob Long]

3 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

I don't know about you, but the team (and especially the core of EP40, QH43, and a few others) are showing very good chemistry right now.  This type of chemistry doesn't happen overnight, even with a taskmaster like Dick Tocch.  Trading away our 1C at this stage will disrupt the existing chemistry of PP1, EP40's line, and the PK that he and JTM9 currently run, as well as take away the hockey intelligence he brings on a nightly basis.

 

Did I mention this type of chemistry doesn't happen overnight?

 

The setback you'd be looking at would probably be months-long, so you might as well write off the season if that were to happen.  And there's no guarantees that what you get back in return can adequately bridge that gap.  Especially when you have a guy that thinks the game as EP40 does.

 

agreed, which is why Petey's agent has Allvin by the proverbial balls.

 

I'm just kicking around Plan D trade ideas if an impasse happened. 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

Just now, Bob Long said:

 

agreed, which is why Petey's agent has Allvin by the proverbial balls.

 

I'm just kicking around Plan D trade ideas if an impasse happened. 

 

Oh, I'm sure it's more than just "the proverbial balls"... 

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

Oh, I'm sure it's more than just "the proverbial balls"... 

 

I don't judge. 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

agreed, working with Petey is option A, B and C. D is the trade route. 

 

Laffy does interest me though... IF he's just breaking out he could be a top 20 scorer. Not Petey like but if you also added a gritty C? maybe overall we're not taking a step back?

 

 

I think Laffy is interesting, he's one of several younger players around the league who look to be taking the next step (him, Byfield, Kotkaniemi to name a few)

 

All the aforementioned are examples of why sometimes you've just got to be patient with young top players who don't step in and immediately make top notch impacts 

 

I think the Rags would be hard pressed to make a Pettersson deal work capwise though, almost all their top players have NMC's and New York is a destination that sells itself 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

5 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

I'm just kicking around Plan D trade ideas if an impasse happened. 

 

By the way, there won't be an impasse.  

 

Either a negotiated agreement happens to EP40's liking, or he accepts the qualifying offer and says, "c'ya!" in Free Agency.  At that point, any plan D that can be conceived would likely be flushed down the toilet, and whatever GMPA is able to squeeze from the receiving team will be woefully inadequate to make up for his loss.

 

So there will be a negotiated agreement that will happen to EP40's liking.  

[qwijjibo]

6 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think Laffy is interesting, he's one of several younger players around the league who look to be taking the next step (him, Byfield, Kotkaniemi to name a few)

 

All the aforementioned are examples of why sometimes you've just got to be patient with young top players who don't step in and immediately make top notch impacts 

 

I think the Rags would be hard pressed to make a Pettersson deal work capwise though, almost all their top players have NMC's and New York is a destination that sells itself 

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/teams/rangers

Yup.  All those guys are great examples of why anyone calling a 19 year old Slafkovsky a bust is an idiot. Some kids take time to mature and find their game. Especially the big ones who are used to dominating because of thier size 

[Devron]

Little shocking some of the comments. If love an 8 year deal but also a 4 or 5 year deal too. Just get the man signed. 

[Devron]

5 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

Yup.  All those guys are great examples of why anyone calling a 19 year old Slafkovsky a bust is an idiot. Some kids take time to mature and find their game. Especially the big ones who are used to dominating because of thier size 

Jack Hughes was a bust too lol

 

Laff is shaping up. Was never a Franchise talent but I can see him being a point per game player.

 

Also people kinda gave up on Quinn Hughes after a shophmore slump, people are funny 

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

1 minute ago, Devron said:

Little shocking some of the comments. If love an 8 year deal but also a 4 or 5 year deal too. Just get the man signed. 

 

Honestly, it seems like (based on some of the comments in this thread, as well as before when we paid top-level players like Luongo top dollar) some people see the size and length of the players' contracts for how much they're going to be earning, then check underneath their own pants, and then suddenly feel so inadequate and insecure that they feel no other option than to attack the player for the player's ability to command such a salary.  

[J-23]

21 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

agreed, working with Petey is option A, B and C. D is the trade route. 

 

Laffy does interest me though... IF he's just breaking out he could be a top 20 scorer. Not Petey like but if you also added a gritty C? maybe overall we're not taking a step back?

 

I like your Blue Jackets offer better.

 

Fantilli has so much upside. 
 

But honest question, does a rebuilding team make that move?

[Coconuts]

13 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said:

 

By the way, there won't be an impasse.  

 

Either a negotiated agreement happens to EP40's liking, or he accepts the qualifying offer and says, "c'ya!" in Free Agency.  At that point, any plan D that can be conceived would likely be flushed down the toilet, and whatever GMPA is able to squeeze from the receiving team will be woefully inadequate to make up for his loss.

 

So there will be a negotiated agreement that will happen to EP40's liking.  

 

I actually forgot about that point, he could just accept his qualifying offer and walk 

 

Just another factor in EP's favour 

 

10 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

Yup.  All those guys are great examples of why anyone calling a 19 year old Slafkovsky a bust is an idiot. Some kids take time to mature and find their game. Especially the big ones who are used to dominating because of thier size 

 

For sure, sometimes it just takes players a bit longer, we saw that with our own prized Sedin twins 

[Coconuts]

3 minutes ago, J-23 said:

I like your Blue Jackets offer better.

 

Fantilli has so much upside. 
 

But honest question, does a rebuilding team make that move?

 

Does EP extend with a rebuilding club? That seemed to be one of the counterarguments when rebuilds came up on CDC

Edited November 17, 2023 by Coconuts

[J-23]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Does EP extend with a rebuilding club?

Ya, like why would Pettersson sign there..

[WHL rocks]

1 hour ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Anything less than five years, send him packing. We will be better in the long run, that greediness is contagious and will spread to the rest of the roster. We need guys who are serious about winning a cup.   

I disagree 

I think 4 years is perfect then let him walk. 

 

Try to win the Cup with this core. If it doesn't happen in next 4 years then let EP40 walk instead of over paying him at the age of 29 on a 8 year contract. It won't end well. 

 

Next 4 years is his prime. Try to win a Cup while we have Hughes signed to the best contract in the entire league at 7.8 mill. 

[Petey the Puck Whisperer]

49 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

we couldn't win it initially, only via a 2nd smart move in addition. 

 

So lets say for yuks: Petey, 1/3 retained to the Rangers for Laffy, Kakko, a 1st.

 

We could then turn around and leverage that 1st for another very good defensive C.

 

Did we win? if we get to the cup finals. 

 

 

 

this is why we have a window for 3 seasons. 

man am i glad you're not our GM... yikes...

[Bob Long]

20 minutes ago, J-23 said:

I like your Blue Jackets offer better.

 

Fantilli has so much upside. 
 

But honest question, does a rebuilding team make that move?

 

Who knows with the CBJ GM? maybe if he see's it as his last chance at keeping his job?

5 minutes ago, Petey the Puck Whisperer said:

man am i glad you're not our GM... yikes...

 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 hour ago, Coconuts said:

 

I don't buy it. Almost every NHL player in the league is serious about winning the cup, but most players are also lucky if they reach the final even once throughout their careers. Every player wants to win, but every player also wants to get paid. It's a lot easier to secure the bag than it is to win a cup, and taking less probably doesn't increase one's odds of doing so all that much. 

 

There are thirty two teams in this league, that number will likely increases before the decade is done. The Stanley Cup is the hardest championship in spots to win, that's not going to get any easier as more franchises are added to the mix. 

 

There's nothing wrong with players wanting to be paid market value. It seems fans want top players but frequently balk when it's time to pay the piper. The cost of success is plenty of zeroes at the end of guys contracts whether a team wins a championship or not. 

 

Fans have the luxury of viewing it all from the perspective of a fan, they want the best cap outlooks for their teams. But the reality is the NHL is a billion dollar business and for players it's a career first and foremost. 

 This is where we disagree, if Petey isnt willing to leave anything on the table why would anyone else on the team. If everyone is just out there looking for a payday and trying to squeeze every last dime from the organization we arent winning anything for a long time. If he wants a 3-4 year deal he can go join Bo in 2 years time, i'll tell you that for free. 

Edited November 17, 2023 by Bure_Pavel

[HKSR]

2 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

 This is where we disagree, if Petey isnt willing to leave anything on the table why would anyone else on the team. If everyone is just out there looking for a payday and trying to squeeze every last dime from the organization we arent winning anything for a long time. 

Agreed.  If a core group of players on a team 'buys in' and takes slightly less on each of their deals, it makes a significant difference.

 

Let's say a core is made up of 3 forwards, 2 defencemen, and 1 starting goaltender.

 

F1 - leaves $375k on the table

F2 - leaves $500k on the table

F3 - leaves $475k on the table

D1 - leaves $500k on the table

D2 - leaves $375k on the table

G - leaves $500k on the table

 

That's a total of $2.725M.  That is quite a significant amount.  The difference between two $3M players vs a $4M player + $4.725M player in the middle 6.

 

Combine the above with finding big time value in ELCs that can play significant roles, and you have a Cup contender.