[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, 43isprime said:

 

Yeah sorry I don't think you're making very much sense.

 

Actually that poster’s comment about Petey (and IMHAO Miller) dominating McWhiner Baby Loser Muffin was 100% accurate. Petey and Miller have proven to shutdown and dominate the loser muffin and selfish whiner McMuffin. IMHAO A team can never win a Cup with a selfish whiner McMuffin as their key player. 

[43isprime]

9 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Actually that poster’s comment about Petey (and IMHAO Miller) dominating McWhiner Baby Loser Muffin was 100% accurate. Petey and Miller have proven to shutdown and dominate the loser muffin and selfish whiner McMuffin. IMHAO A team can never win a Cup with a selfish whiner McMuffin as their key player. 

 

So because Mcdavid didn't play that well against us and Pettersson apparently made a few nice passes versus the Flames, this means the two are comparable?

 

And if Pettersson was bigger he'd apparently be the best player in the league, and therefore he's worth 11+?

 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

So because Mcdavid didn't play that well against us and Pettersson apparently made a few nice passes versus the Flames, this means the two are comparable?

 

And if Pettersson was bigger he'd apparently be the best player in the league, and therefore he's worth 11+?

 

Nope. It means no club can win a Cup with the Loser McBaby Whiner Muffin as their key guy. Seriously, it’s our Canucks’ board. F the Oilers and F McWiner Loser Muffin. Hate that team.  Will get great joy and pleasure when they go on another losing streak. Love seeing their fans suffer. Makes Alf Happy! 

[43isprime]

33 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nope. It means no club can win a Cup with the Loser McBaby Whiner Muffin as their key guy. Seriously, it’s our Canucks’ board. F the Oilers and F McWiner Loser Muffin. Hate that team.  Will get great joy and pleasure when they go on another losing streak. Love seeing their fans suffer. Makes Alf Happy! 

 

Haha hey don't get me wrong - as a Canucks fan, I also love seeing the Oilers struggle. But there's not much evidence the Canucks can win a Cup with Pettersson as our key guy either.

[Elias Pettersson]

58 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Lol, you keep telling yourself that.  Petey is a very good player, but a 60 goal scorer is on another level.  Especially one as consistent as Pastrnak (30+ goals 7 years in a row... soon to be 8 years).

 

There is a reason that 7 out of the 14 players who are currently making $10 million or more are centres.  This concept seems to be difficult for you to understand.  Not sure why.  Any competent GM will tell you that in order to build a team to win a cup you need a #1 centre, #1 Dman and #1 goalie.  Those are your building blocks.  Having a 60-goal winger is great, but a #1 centre is more valuable.  That's why half the players making $10 million+ are centres.

 

I wouldn't trade Petey straight up for Pastrnak and neither would Allvin.  I wouldn't trade Hughes straight up for him either...

[43isprime]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

There is a reason that 7 out of the 14 players who are currently making $10 million or more are centres.  This concept seems to be difficult for you to understand.  Not sure why.  Any competent GM will tell you that in order to build a team to win a cup you need a #1 centre, #1 Dman and #1 goalie.  Those are your building blocks.  Having a 60-goal winger is great, but a #1 centre is more valuable.  That's why half the players making $10 million+ are centres.

 

I wouldn't trade Petey straight up for Pastrnak and neither would Allvin.  I wouldn't trade Hughes straight up for him either...

 

Would you trade Pettersson straight up for Tkachuk? 

 

 

[Hammertime]

11 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Haha hey don't get me wrong - as a Canucks fan, I also love seeing the Oilers struggle. But there's not much evidence the Canucks can win a Cup with Pettersson as our key guy either.

2017-18	Vaxjo HC	SweHL	44	24	32	56	14	27	13	10	9	19	4
2018-19	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	71	28	38	66	12	3	--	--	--	--	--
2019-20	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	68	27	39	66	18	16	17	7	11	18	2
2020-21	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	26	10	11	21	6	0	--	--	--	--	--
2021-22	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	32	36	68	12	1	--	--	--	--	--
2022-23	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	80	39	63	102	14	16	--	--	--	--	--
2023-24	Vancouver Canucks	NHL	25	10	22	32	0	6

 

 

he's elevated his game in the playoffs both for Vaxjo and the Canucks.  

[Elias Pettersson]

45 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Would you trade Pettersson straight up for Tkachuk? 

 

 

 

Nope.  I wouldn't trade Petey for any winger in the league.  I mean, what exactly would Tkachuk be doing with Vancouver if his centre was Pius Suter?  At the end of the day, you need centres to win a cup.  Gretzky, Lemieux, Trottier, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Kopitar, Toews, Eichel, Crosby.  Very few teams have won the cup without a #1 centre, most of the teams that didn't had all world goaltending to win the cup.

 

We have a great one/two up the middle that can lead us to a cup.  There would be no reason to break that up to get a winger unless we were forced into a trade...

[wai_lai416]

35 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Nope.  I wouldn't trade Petey for any winger in the league.  I mean, what exactly would Tkachuk be doing with Vancouver if his centre was Pius Suter?  At the end of the day, you need centres to win a cup.  Gretzky, Lemieux, Trottier, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Kopitar, Toews, Eichel, Crosby.  Very few teams have won the cup without a #1 centre, most of the teams that didn't had all world goaltending to win the cup.

 

We have a great one/two up the middle that can lead us to a cup.  There would be no reason to break that up to get a winger unless we were forced into a trade...

yup.. wingers rarely the one leading the team to a cup... there's a reason why all but 4 conn symthe winners since the salary cap are either a goalie defenceman or a center.. and most of those that are won by the goalie and defenceman could have easily gone to the center also.. can't even think of 1 team that won the cup in the salary cap era have won it without an elite center.. but plenty have won it without an elite winger.

[43isprime]

45 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Nope.  I wouldn't trade Petey for any winger in the league.  I mean, what exactly would Tkachuk be doing with Vancouver if his centre was Pius Suter?  At the end of the day, you need centres to win a cup.  Gretzky, Lemieux, Trottier, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Kopitar, Toews, Eichel, Crosby.  Very few teams have won the cup without a #1 centre, most of the teams that didn't had all world goaltending to win the cup.

 

We have a great one/two up the middle that can lead us to a cup.  There would be no reason to break that up to get a winger unless we were forced into a trade...

 

Since you put stock into awards voting by citing how Pettersson was 7th in Selke votes last year, do you realize that Pastrnak and Tkachuk were 2 and 3 in the Hart Trophy voting last year, whereas Pettersson finished 18th?

 

Now obviously team quality has a lot to do with it, but it's not like the Panthers tore it up in the regular season. Just FYI - of the top 10 in Hart voting, 4 were centers, 4 were wingers, and 2 were goalies.

 

Going down the list of all centers in the NHL, Tkachuk and Pastrnak have to slot in above some - surely you're not arguing ANY center is more valuable than those two. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it seem that Pettersson slots above them. He's clearly not anywhere near the Mcdavid, Matthews, MacKinnon tier.

[43isprime]

1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Nope.  I wouldn't trade Petey for any winger in the league.  I mean, what exactly would Tkachuk be doing with Vancouver if his centre was Pius Suter?  At the end of the day, you need centres to win a cup.  Gretzky, Lemieux, Trottier, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Kopitar, Toews, Eichel, Crosby.  Very few teams have won the cup without a #1 centre, most of the teams that didn't had all world goaltending to win the cup.

 

We have a great one/two up the middle that can lead us to a cup.  There would be no reason to break that up to get a winger unless we were forced into a trade...

 

All those centers you listed - no debate there. True number one centers are invaluable. But you really think Pettersson belongs in that group? Your entire premise is based on an assumption that Pettersson is someone he's not. 

[N4ZZY]

6 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

All those centers you listed - no debate there. True number one centers are invaluable. But you really think Pettersson belongs in that group? Your entire premise is based on an assumption that Pettersson is someone he's not. 

 

He's probably a tier below that group, I think. But that's still a very good #1 centreman. 

 

[GrammaInTheTub]

11 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Since you put stock into awards voting by citing how Pettersson was 7th in Selke votes last year, do you realize that Pastrnak and Tkachuk were 2 and 3 in the Hart Trophy voting last year, whereas Pettersson finished 18th?

 

Now obviously team quality has a lot to do with it, but it's not like the Panthers tore it up in the regular season. Just FYI - of the top 10 in Hart voting, 4 were centers, 4 were wingers, and 2 were goalies.

 

Going down the list of all centers in the NHL, Tkachuk and Pastrnak have to slot in above some - surely you're not arguing ANY center is more valuable than those two. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it seem that Pettersson slots above them. He's clearly not anywhere near the Mcdavid, Matthews, MacKinnon tier.

I feel like Petey was tracking early this year for being in their tier, but this latest injury lull has hampered that. I’m hopeful that it is indeed injury related and not just a lull. We all have to remember that even with this lull he’s out scoring a lot of higher paid players on long term deals.
 

I will gladly take this chance to negotiate a lower salary as well. Petey is going to get paid but if we can keep him in that Barkov range we’re golden. 
 

Early this season I predicted a $12.5x8 extension for $100M total and said we’d be lucky to get it.
 

Reflecting… if we had 1.5ppg Petey at all times, sure that deals a hell of a bargain. But now, with market comps, I think we’re looking at a $10-11 x 4 with the cap going up team flexibility needed. This is more of a term change in my

opinion than a value to our team change. I think he goes mid term for a big payday on his last or near last deal. 
 

I know he’s gotten stronger, but as a former gramma-beer-league all-star, I also know groin injuries make it hell too extend for a stride and falling becomes much easier like we’ve seen from him. I hope he gets healthy soon.
 

I’d rather us dominate and win it all than quibble over dollars when we don’t have to just yet. Why worry about the future when we can enjoy the present? 

[43isprime]

Okay wait a second. There seems to be this presumption that Pettersson is a true number one center and therefore should be paid like one and valued above any winger.

 

Since Miller has been here, is it even true that Pettersson has been the true undisputed number one center on this team?

 

[GrammaInTheTub]

3 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

Okay wait a second. There seems to be this presumption that Pettersson is a true number one center and therefore should be paid like one and valued above any winger.

 

Since Miller has been here, is it even true that Pettersson has been the true undisputed number one center on this team?

 

A very fair point. 

[43isprime]

47 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

I feel like Petey was tracking early this year for being in their tier, but this latest injury lull has hampered that. I’m hopeful that it is indeed injury related and not just a lull. We all have to remember that even with this lull he’s out scoring a lot of higher paid players on long term deals.
 

I will gladly take this chance to negotiate a lower salary as well. Petey is going to get paid but if we can keep him in that Barkov range we’re golden. 
 

Early this season I predicted a $12.5x8 extension for $100M total and said we’d be lucky to get it.
 

Reflecting… if we had 1.5ppg Petey at all times, sure that deals a hell of a bargain. But now, with market comps, I think we’re looking at a $10-11 x 4 with the cap going up team flexibility needed. This is more of a term change in my

opinion than a value to our team change. I think he goes mid term for a big payday on his last or near last deal. 
 

I know he’s gotten stronger, but as a former gramma-beer-league all-star, I also know groin injuries make it hell too extend for a stride and falling becomes much easier like we’ve seen from him. I hope he gets healthy soon.
 

I’d rather us dominate and win it all than quibble over dollars when we don’t have to just yet. Why worry about the future when we can enjoy the present? 

 

Haha I'm trying my best to enjoy the present!! I'm ecstatic we will have playoff hockey to look forward to. But I also want to see us win the Cup with this core, and I'm not sure we can with Pettersson signed to a massive deal.

 

 

[Lemon Face]

4 hours ago, 43isprime said:

 

So because Mcdavid didn't play that well against us and Pettersson apparently made a few nice passes versus the Flames, this means the two are comparable?

 

And if Pettersson was bigger he'd apparently be the best player in the league, and therefore he's worth 11+?

 

Two weeks ago you wouldn't dare to talk about trading Pettersson.Because he has some problems lately(groin,Myers hit and problem with wrist)you decided to shit on him.Acting like there is line up of Pettersson players waiting in line to play for few million.Some things never change

[Elias Pettersson]

33 minutes ago, Lemon Face said:

Two weeks ago you wouldn't dare to talk about trading Pettersson.Because he has some problems lately(groin,Myers hit and problem with wrist)you decided to shit on him.Acting like there is line up of Pettersson players waiting in line to play for few million.Some things never change

 

Exactly.  When Petey is the NHL scoring leader, nobody says a word and all I hear is pay him what he wants.  3 weeks later when he is obviously nursing an injury and ONLY has 7 points in his last 10 games, all of a sudden he is not even a #1 centre in the NHL.

 

I remember when Petey had the slow start a couple of years ago and posters were wanting to send him to the AHL. So laughable and predictable…

Edited December 4, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, 43isprime said:

 

Since you put stock into awards voting by citing how Pettersson was 7th in Selke votes last year, do you realize that Pastrnak and Tkachuk were 2 and 3 in the Hart Trophy voting last year, whereas Pettersson finished 18th?

 

Now obviously team quality has a lot to do with it, but it's not like the Panthers tore it up in the regular season. Just FYI - of the top 10 in Hart voting, 4 were centers, 4 were wingers, and 2 were goalies.

 

Going down the list of all centers in the NHL, Tkachuk and Pastrnak have to slot in above some - surely you're not arguing ANY center is more valuable than those two. I don't think it's as clear cut as you make it seem that Pettersson slots above them. He's clearly not anywhere near the Mcdavid, Matthews, MacKinnon tier.

 

Trophies are voted on based on team play.  Everyone knows this. You can’t win a trophy unless you play for a top team that is in the playoffs.  So saying that Petey was 18th in Hart voting while the wingers were in the top 3 is irrelevant. Petey could have had 130 points and he still wouldn’t have finished in the top 5 in Hart voting on a non playoff team.  The fact that he finished 7th for the Selke given the Canucks didn’t even make the playoffs was quite incredible really.

 

I never said every centre is superior to Pastrnak and Tkachuk.  Just because someone is a #1 centre on a team doesn’t mean they are any good.  I’m talking about the elite 90-100+ point centres. Petey is in that group.  Petey was 10th in scoring last year and 5th in scoring for centres.  So, obviously he’s a top 5 centre in the NHL.  A top 5 centre in the NHL is more valuable than any winger.

 

Even right now, Petey is the #2 centre for scoring in the NHL.  The only centre that has more points than him in the entire NHL is his teammate JT Miller.  Even with Petey’s “slump”, he still has more points than McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon and Tkachuk.  

 

So please explain to me exactly why we are shitting on him right now?  Were you shitting on him 3 weeks ago when he was the NHL scoring leader?

 

Please explain why the currently 7th leading scorer in the NHL is not worth $11 million+ per year…

Edited December 4, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Coryberg]

1 hour ago, 43isprime said:

Okay wait a second. There seems to be this presumption that Pettersson is a true number one center and therefore should be paid like one and valued above any winger.

 

Since Miller has been here, is it even true that Pettersson has been the true undisputed number one center on this team?

 

That's like saying malkin has been a true #2 center his whole career. Truth is Miller or Petey would be the number 1 center on 20+ teams in the league. Having 2 great centers isn't a bad thing.

 

The thing is although they are very similar right now in their careers petey should have a much better trajectory and a longer window at the top of his game.

[43isprime]

39 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Trophies are voted on based on team play.  Everyone knows this. You can’t win a trophy unless you play for a top team that is in the playoffs.  So saying that Petey was 18th in Hart voting while the wingers were in the top 3 is irrelevant. Petey could have had 130 points and he still wouldn’t have finished in the top 5 in Hart voting on a non playoff team.  The fact that he finished 7th for the Selke given the Canucks didn’t even make the playoffs was quite incredible really.

 

I never said every centre is superior to Pastrnak and Tkachuk.  Just because someone is a #1 centre on a team doesn’t mean they are any good.  I’m talking about the elite 90-100+ point centres. Petey is in that group.  Petey was 10th in scoring last year and 5th in scoring for centres.  So, obviously he’s a top 5 centre in the NHL.  A top 5 centre in the NHL is more valuable than any winger.

 

Even right now, Petey is the #2 centre for scoring in the NHL.  The only centre that has more points than him in the entire NHL is his teammate JT Miller.  Even with Petey’s “slump”, he still has more points than McDavid, Draisaitl, MacKinnon and Tkachuk.  

 

So please explain to me exactly why we are shitting on him right now?  Were you shitting on him 3 weeks ago when he was the NHL scoring leader?

 

Please explain why the currently 7th leading scorer in the NHL is not worth $11 million+ per year…

 

Yeah, and the relevant argument here is what..."I'll take it on blind faith that Pettersson is an elite number one center, and therefore he must have more value than any winger and is worth 11+"...well I guess you must be right

 

You're calling him an elite 90-100 PT center when he's averaged 1 ppg over his career? Like...what?

 

He's hit 100 pts exactly once, and that was with a winger who was shooting 27%.

 

Just because I don't put him in the same category as "Gretzky, Lemieux, Trottier, Messier, Sakic, Yzerman, Stamkos, MacKinnon, Kopitar, Toews, Eichel, Crosby" doesn't mean I'm trashing him.

 

Three weeks ago I didn't have an account. Our PDO was sitting at 109. We were the highest scoring team in the league. We'd scored 18 combined goals in two of our games. Everyone's stats were bloated; even Hughes was on pace for 130pts. 

 

The currently 7th leading scorer in the NHL is not worth $11 million+ per year because he has shown no evidence he can sustain elite production over multiple seasons. Instead, he has shown a pattern of high level play interspersed with prolonged slumps. And again, his stats are padded from that stretch with historically high team PDO. That's why.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by 43isprime

[43isprime]

30 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

That's like saying malkin has been a true #2 center his whole career. Truth is Miller or Petey would be the number 1 center on 20+ teams in the league. Having 2 great centers isn't a bad thing.

 

The thing is although they are very similar right now in their careers petey should have a much better trajectory and a longer window at the top of his game.

 

But Miller is not exactly the greatest player of his generation.

[Coryberg]

17 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

But Miller is not exactly the greatest player of his generation.

If that's the base of your argument you are grasping at straws.

 

Fact of the matter is JT miller is leading all centers in points right now and #2 in the entire league? Elias Pettersson. Sure as shit doesn't make 32 other centers better than him.

 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Coryberg

[43isprime]

31 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

If that's the base of your argument you are grasping at straws.

 

Fact of the matter is JT miller is leading all centers in points right now and #2 in the entire league? Elias Pettersson. Sure as shit doesn't make 32 other centers better than him.

 

 

 

Uh I didn't say Pettersson was the number 2 center behind Miller because the latter currently has more points. 

 

I'm asking if Pettersson has been used as our undisputed number one center since Miller has been a Canuck.

 

I really don't think points production thus far is the best way to assess our players. As I mentioned above, this team started out the season on a PDO heater. What is true, however, is that Pettersson's current run of poor play is part of a larger pattern that we've observed over his career.

 

People's 11+ million valuation seem to ignore these poor stretches. 

 

Look, just because I claim he's not worth 11+ doesn't mean I'm trashing him. I'm trying to point out that people seem to remember only Pettersson's peak stretches (which I agree are worth 11+ if sustained over multiple seasons) and forget the regularity of his slumps.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by 43isprime

[43isprime]

59 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

If that's the base of your argument you are grasping at straws.

 

Fact of the matter is JT miller is leading all centers in points right now and #2 in the entire league? Elias Pettersson. Sure as shit doesn't make 32 other centers better than him.

 

 

 

Btw, being one of the top 32 centers in the league isn't a sufficient condition for an 11+ valuation.

 

When he hasn't been the undisputed number one center on his team over the past 4 seasons, and his team's other best center has been JT Miller (who is a good player, don't get me wrong), it's time to doubt whether he's really worth 11+.