[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Elias Pettersson]

43 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

 

Again, I'm not sure what you think "multiple" means. Why do you keep focusing on the 2022-23 season when it's clearly the outlier?

 

2023-2024  5 on 5 points:

 

Nathan MacKinnon - 20

JT Miller - 19

Elias Pettersson - 18

Auston Matthews - 17

Brayden Point - 17

Jack Hughes - 16

Connor McDavid - 15

Leon Draisaitl - 15

 

2023-2024 is looking exactly the same as 2022-2023. Petey is the #3 scoring centre at 5 on 5. And he is on a pace for even more points this year. 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[J-23]

1 hour ago, ronning4center said:

 I mean would you trade petey for Jack Hughes straight up? 

New Jersey says no.

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, J-23 said:

New Jersey says no.

Actually Jersey would absolutely say yes. Petey is, by far, the better player. It’s not even close really. 
 

[Captain insano]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Actually Jersey would absolutely say yes. Petey is, by far, the better player. It’s not even close really. 
 

Not that this should even be a thing but if Hughes was able to stay healthy It would be a run away no brainer but because of his inability to stay healthy is only reason petey would be discussed 

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Captain insano said:

Not that this should even be a thing but if Hughes was able to stay healthy It would be a run away no brainer but because of his inability to stay healthy is only reason petey would be discussed 

Actually Quinn Hughes is the best of the bunch. Then Petey. Then Jack. Luke is a dough head. 

[J-23]

22 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Actually Jersey would absolutely say yes. Petey is, by far, the better player. It’s not even close really. 
 

 

Jack Hughes would be leading the league in points if not for an injury.

 

Also going to be up there in points year after year at an 8 million dollar cap hit until 2029-2030.

[steviewonder20]

Was Alvin begging Petey to stay? They discussed his feelings about the team and the future but what did Petey tell him? The news reports make it sound like we are desperate to keep him and he’s being coy about whether he wants to be here. Salary talk is irrelevant if he wants to move on.

[Bob Long]

10 minutes ago, steviewonder20 said:

Was Alvin begging Petey to stay? They discussed his feelings about the team and the future but what did Petey tell him? The news reports make it sound like we are desperate to keep him and he’s being coy about whether he wants to be here. Salary talk is irrelevant if he wants to move on.

 

It is among the Swedes, it's real Ikea meatball shit.

[Lemon Face]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It is among the Swedes, it's real Ikea meatball shit.

Alvin is not trowing money on no one.

[J-P]

EP has a history of starting a bit slow. Even this season when the points were there I don't think he really played up to (his own) standard, even though he's been very stellar defensively throughout the season. So unless he is actually injured, I'm expecting him to pick it up as the season moves along. 

 

EP also elevated his play both during the SHL playoffs and during the bubble playoffs. People mistake his wiry frame (and yes, for an NHL player not elite balance) for being soft, while missing out on the punishment he gives and takes. This was also obvious during the bubble playoffs where he elevated his physical game as well and wasn't intimidated. That's a few years back without the current muscle and experience, mind you.

 

So guess what I'm saying is let's see how the season and (hopefully) playoffs unfolds before judging his next contract based on a few games early in the season.

[Coconuts]

14 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Pasta is a great player. Nobody is denying that. But he is a one dimensional winger who doesn’t kill penalties. That type of player is not worth more than a 100 point two way centre who plays in all situations. 
 

Also, Pasta is 27. Petey is 25. Petey hit 102 points at age 24. At age 24 and even at age 25 Pasta was basically a PPG player.  The fact that Petey is 2 years younger than Pasta makes him an even more valuable player. 

 

So not killing penalties makes you one dimensional? Not how I see it, Pasta's a true dual threat who is integral to the Bruin's success and he's paid as such. Boston's never needed him to kill penalties, they've always had other players, including Marchand and Bergeron, to do that. If you personally view any NHL forward who doesn't play PK as one dimensional, sure, can't argue with that. 

 

For the most part I think you and I actually agree about Pettersson's value, in this thread no less, I just thought you were underselling Pasta, who belongs to be right there with Pettersson imo. Thing is, Pettersson needs to keep doing it whereas Pasta has done it, Pettersson looks to be doing it again but Pasta's track record of production is longer. Despite playing different positions they're closer than you think in value imo. 

 

As for the age bit, when you factor in Pasta stepping into the league at eighteen they're not that far off. If I'm not mistaken Pasta was closing in roughly point per game by his age 20-21 season, his third season, during which he put up 70 in 75. Age 21-22 was 80 in 82, 22-23 was 81 in 66, 23-24 would have been his 95 in 70 season. Pasta had put up two seasons of being on pace or roughly 100 points or better by the end of his 23-24 year-old season, plus two seasons of being roughly point per game prior to those two seasons. The next couple seasons he went back to roughly point per game before blowing up last season, and again thus far this season. It's hard to project whether Pettersson will have years where his points lull a bit given he's in his sixth season whereas Pasta's in his tenth, but at the same age they were pretty comparable players pointwise.

 

I'm of the opinion that Pettersson is extremely valuable, at similar points in their careers they weren't really all that different as far as their season totals went, although Pasta blew up a year earlier. You can argue that Pettersson is a center, but he hasn't been the center he's been this season or last his entire Canucks tenure, he's had to grow into that. You could also point to Boston having better teams, but I'd argue that despite the team's records throughout Pettersson's Canucks career the top end supporting casts he's worked with have been pretty respectable as well. You've also got to credit Pasta for putting up the numbers he has, not every player capitalizes on their chance to step in and become an impact player in a team's top six. 

 

As for which type of player is worth more, I'm of the opinion that their value is closer than you probably think it is despite their positional differences. Pasta isn't benefitting from Krejci and Bergeron anymore, he's making do with Zacha for a center, the same Zacha who broke 40 points for the first time last season, and he's still on pace for 50+ goals and 100+ points. Would I take Pettersson over Pasta because he's a center? Yeah, but folks taking Pasta over Pettersson wouldn't shock me either. He's a legitimate gamebreaker, they're both arguably top 10 NHL forwards. 

 

Will Pettersson end up earning more? There's a good chance, he'll benefit from a rising cap that's just been projected to rise 4.2M. https://www.thescore.com/nhl/news/2784964

 

 

 

 

[ronning4center]

14 hours ago, J-23 said:

 

Jack Hughes would be leading the league in points if not for an injury.

 

Also going to be up there in points year after year at an 8 million dollar cap hit until 2029-2030.

This is my point.  Petey at 12 million makes me physically ill.  I would do this trade.

[ronning4center]

10 hours ago, J-P said:

EP has a history of starting a bit slow. Even this season when the points were there I don't think he really played up to (his own) standard, even though he's been very stellar defensively throughout the season. So unless he is actually injured, I'm expecting him to pick it up as the season moves along. 

 

EP also elevated his play both during the SHL playoffs and during the bubble playoffs. People mistake his wiry frame (and yes, for an NHL player not elite balance) for being soft, while missing out on the punishment he gives and takes. This was also obvious during the bubble playoffs where he elevated his physical game as well and wasn't intimidated. That's a few years back without the current muscle and experience, mind you.

 

So guess what I'm saying is let's see how the season and (hopefully) playoffs unfolds before judging his next contract based on a few games early in the season.

I agree.  Though that just screams inconsistency.  I dunno man...this could be make or break either way.  I'm also not really a fan of his attitude.  Seems a bit entitled.  Where's he gonna go?  Every contender is cap full.  Anyone who can afford him is a bottom feeder.  Great go make 12 million in San Jose or Chicago bro.  Don't cripple my team with your greedyness

[6of1_halfdozenofother]

 

[higgyfan]

Jack Hughes is +2yrs younger than Pete and they both started scoring ++pts per game last

season.  Jack will likely always outscore him, but Pete has the more complete game for now.

 

Given the contracts (going into next year) and age difference, I think I could be easily

convinced to make the trade.

Edited December 5, 2023 by higgyfan

[HKSR]

8 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

Jack Hughes is +2yrs younger than Pete and they both started scoring ++pts per game last

season.  Jack will likely always outscore him, but Pete has the more complete game for now.

 

Given the contracts (going into next year) and age difference, I think I could be easily

convinced to make the trade.

Given the contracts, I'd easily take Jack Hughes over Petey.  Petey isn't even the guy we use in a matchup role.  That job is Miller's line.  Petey is supposed to just create a ton of offence, defensive ability is a bonus.

[Elias Pettersson]

15 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Given the contracts, I'd easily take Jack Hughes over Petey.  Petey isn't even the guy we use in a matchup role.  That job is Miller's line.  Petey is supposed to just create a ton of offence, defensive ability is a bonus.

 

That's not true.  Petey was put up against Eichel after Miller's line allowed them to score twice.  They didn't score again after the switch.  Petey is looking to be a Selke candidate again, unlike Miller.  Problem is he plays with Kuzmenko who is not good defensively.  

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

That's not true.  Petey was put up against Eichel after Miller's line allowed them to score twice.  They didn't score again after the switch.  Petey is looking to be a Selke candidate again, unlike Miller.  Problem is he plays with Kuzmenko who is not good defensively.  

Lol, Petey and Miller both were terrible against VGK.  Most games this season, Miller's line is the one against the other team's top line.

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Lol, Petey and Miller both were terrible against VGK.  Most games this season, Miller's line is the one against the other team's top line.

 

I disagree.  Petey was fine defensively against Vegas.  Eichel's line lit up Miller's line for the first 2 goals before Tocchet made the switch.  They didn't score afterwards.  

 

Miller's line is the one this year that goes against the other team's top lines because Di Giuseppe and Boeser have been solid this year, while Kuzmenko is a tire fire in the defensive zone and Mikheyev was slowly being worked into the top line at the beginning of the year.  It has nothing to do with Petey vs. Miller.  Petey is way better than Miller defensively.  I'm not even sure why I would need to bring this up.  Isn't Petey the one who is getting all the Selke votes?

[HKSR]

23 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I disagree.  Petey was fine defensively against Vegas.  Eichel's line lit up Miller's line for the first 2 goals before Tocchet made the switch.  They didn't score afterwards.  

 

Miller's line is the one this year that goes against the other team's top lines because Di Giuseppe and Boeser have been solid this year, while Kuzmenko is a tire fire in the defensive zone and Mikheyev was slowly being worked into the top line at the beginning of the year.  It has nothing to do with Petey vs. Miller.  Petey is way better than Miller defensively.  I'm not even sure why I would need to bring this up.  Isn't Petey the one who is getting all the Selke votes?

 

Here's the data I sorted from Natural Stat Trick... you can visually scan this first page of data and can tell Miller is the guy that plays the most against other team's top offensive threats.  Petey plays more against the 2nd line guys.  Miller's line is the matchup line this season (at least so far).

 

[HKSR]

Here's VGK specifically.  If there's any other team's you're curious about, I can post them. 

 

Eichel was pretty close between the 2 of them.  2.65 vs 3.07.

 

But notice how Karlsson and Marchessault TOI with Miller vs Pettersson. 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

Here's the data I sorted from Natural Stat Trick... you can visually scan this first page of data and can tell Miller is the guy that plays the most against other team's top offensive threats.  Petey plays more against the 2nd line guys.  Miller's line is the matchup line this season (at least so far).

 

 

I am not arguing this point.  My point was that Miller is playing with Di Giuseppe and Boeser, who are playing well defensively this year and so Tocchet has that line up against the other team's top players.  Petey is playing with Kuzmenko who is a tire fire in his own zone, and Mikheyev was still getting into shape until recently.  

 

I am talking about Petey versus Miller head to head.  Petey is clearly the better defensive player and is the one who finished 7th in Selke voting last year...

[Elias Pettersson]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Here's VGK specifically.  If there's any other team's you're curious about, I can post them. 

 

Eichel was pretty close between the 2 of them.  2.65 vs 3.07.

 

But notice how Karlsson and Marchessault TOI with Miller vs Pettersson. 

 

 

Miler's line was up against Eichel's line and they scored the first 2 goals.  Tocchet then switched it up.  I saw it with my own eyes.  I don't need advanced stats for that.  Petey's line was up against the Eichel line after the first period...

Edited December 5, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I am not arguing this point.  My point was that Miller is playing with Di Giuseppe and Boeser, who are playing well defensively this year and so Tocchet has that line up against the other team's top players.  Petey is playing with Kuzmenko who is a tire fire in his own zone, and Mikheyev was still getting into shape until recently.  

 

I am talking about Petey versus Miller head to head.  Petey is clearly the better defensive player and is the one who finished 7th in Selke voting last year...

 

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

Miler's line was up against Eichel's line and they scored the first 2 goals.  Tocchet then switched it up.  I saw it with my own eyes.  I don't need advanced stats for that.  Petey's line was up against the Eichel line after the first period...

 

Last year is last year,  this year is this year.  Miller is the matchup centre this year. 

 

Mikheyev is known to be an excellent 2-way player, much better than Boeser or PDG.  So in theory, Petey+Mik should be a much better duo to matchup against other team's than Miller+Boeser or Miller+PDG.  However, that's not the case.  Miller is the guy that goes head to head against the other team's top offensive threats.

 

I'm not sure what else I can say if you choose to simply ignore advanced stats and facts and simply state that your own eyes is what makes Petey the better defensive centre this year

[Elias Pettersson]

49 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

 

Last year is last year,  this year is this year.  Miller is the matchup centre this year. 

 

Mikheyev is known to be an excellent 2-way player, much better than Boeser or PDG.  So in theory, Petey+Mik should be a much better duo to matchup against other team's than Miller+Boeser or Miller+PDG.  However, that's not the case.  Miller is the guy that goes head to head against the other team's top offensive threats.

 

I'm not sure what else I can say if you choose to simply ignore advanced stats and facts and simply state that your own eyes is what makes Petey the better defensive centre this year

 

Tocchet doesn't want Kuzmenko anywhere near trying to forecheck the other team's best line.  So how can Petey be out there if he is with Kuzmenko?  Mikheyev didn't even have a training camp or preseason, so he was in no way able to handle any defensive duties.  So, Miller's line was the shutdown line on opening night.  They have obviously done a great job as a threesome so Tocchet has kept that line as the shutdown line.

 

Miller has played well defensively, but at the end of the day Petey is the superior defensive player.  That's all I am trying to say.  You keep saying "Miller" is the guy going head to head against the other teams top line.  It's "Miller's line" that is going head to head.  This is where the confusion lies. 

 

At the end of the day, Petey and Kuzmenko may not be a fit.  Kuzy is driving down Petey's defensive abilities.  That is a big problem.  He really needs to pick it up or else he may be the guy that gets traded and we re-sign Boeser...

Edited December 5, 2023 by Elias Pettersson