[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Rekker]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

 

EP has a long way to go before he's best centre in franchise history.  Upside is certainly there, but signing him for a "few million" more than he's worth is a surefire way of building a team that will never win a Cup.  Ask Toronto and Edmonton how they feel about throwing money at their #1 centre then having no depth to work with.

A long way? He's 25. Who came close at 25? Calder, Selke votes, probably Selke finalist this year. Of course your paying for upside, that's how it works, that's the NHL. I know he has things to improve on but has shown every example of a player that takes the challenges head on and strives to win and improve. A long ways?! Not even close to true 

 

[Rekker]

2 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I'm not convinced of that.  Put it this way, if Petey was making $12.5M right now putting in the performance he has since early November, how do you think he'd be received right now by fans and media alike?

By comparison McD and AM and Ma K have sucked in stretches too this year. They all make 12.5 or more. He's only 25! He's not even close to peak Petey yet. 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, Rekker said:

A long way? He's 25. Who came close at 25? Calder, Selke votes, probably Selke finalist this year. Of course your paying for upside, that's how it works, that's the NHL. I know he has things to improve on but has shown every example of a player that takes the challenges head on and strives to win and improve. A long ways?! Not even close to true 

 

 

I say long ways because he's only played 354 games in his career with 360 points.  I'm sure many thought Bure would be the highest scoring Canuck of all time after 354 games.  Just saying.

[I.Am.Ironman]

2 minutes ago, Rekker said:

A long way? He's 25. Who came close at 25? Calder, Selke votes, probably Selke finalist this year. Of course your paying for upside, that's how it works, that's the NHL. I know he has things to improve on but has shown every example of a player that takes the challenges head on and strives to win and improve. A long ways?! Not even close to true 

 

 

I would say he has a long ways to go before surpassing Henrik. He's already an elite player, but he has a long ways to go before the Hall of Fame.

[DeltaSwede]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

I'm not convinced of that.  Put it this way, if Petey was making $12.5M right now putting in the performance he has since early November, how do you think he'd be received right now by fans and media alike?

I can't even bother to argue as we are so incredibly far off each other here. I'm convinced you are trolling. 

How is that you are not convinced of that? How, with having some understanding of player value, how the NHL works, how the cap works do you land in this highly unlikely scenario.

How are you basing a players future performance on his slumps. All star players slump. McDavid sucked hard to start the year. He was horrific. Is that now his career outlook?

Why the trade with Minnesota? Why make the Canucks a much worse team? Based on what? What freaking horrid value to get back for a top 5 center in the league.

I'm out. Signing off. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by DeltaSwede

[HKSR]

Just now, Rekker said:

By comparison McD and AM and Ma K have sucked in stretches too this year. They all make 12.5 or more. He's only 25! He's not even close to peak Petey yet. 

Please don't compare Petey to McDavid.  Love Petey, but come on.  McDavid has been held off the scoresheet only 5 times this season.

Even Mackinnon is a stretch.  He has only been held off the scoresheet 6 times this season.

 

Personally I don't like AM as a player and as a person.  He's also streaky and disappears when the going gets tough.  If I were a Leafs fan I would have hated that re-signing.

 

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, DeltaSwede said:

I can't even bother to argue as we are so incredibly far off each other here. I'm convinced you are trolling. 

How is that you are not convinced of that? How, with having some understanding of player value, how the NHL works, how the cap works do you land in this highly unlikely scenario.

How are you basing a players future performance on his slumps. All star players slump. McDavid sucked hard to start the year. He was horrific. Is that now his career outlook?

Why the trade with Minnesota? Why make the Canucks a much worse team? Based on what? What freaking horrid value to get back for a top 5 center in the league.

I'm out. Signing off. 

 

Because this isn't the first time Petey has slumped.  If I can conclude anything from his 5 seasons so far is that he's a streaky player.  He goes on an absolute tear, and then disappears for long stretches of a season.  

 

I base his future performance on his past performance.  Streak then slump then streak then slump.

 

Have you guys even looked at McDavid's game logs?  And why are you guys comparing Petey to McDavid?  McDavid is a bonafide generational talent that will go down as one of the greatest offensive players to ever play the game lmao.

 

I think the Canucks would arguably be an even stronger team if they replaced Petey with Eriksson Ek AND Brodin.

[The Lock]

3 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Please don't compare Petey to McDavid.  Love Petey, but come on.  McDavid has been held off the scoresheet only 5 times this season.

Even Mackinnon is a stretch.  He has only been held off the scoresheet 6 times this season.

 

Personally I don't like AM as a player and as a person.  He's also streaky and disappears when the going gets tough.  If I were a Leafs fan I would have hated that re-signing.

 

 

Whether we like it or not, Petey's putting up similar points to these guys; therefore, the comparison is going to be there and arguments are going to be made in terms of what Petey could make based on those guys. We also have to consider the cap ceiling going up which also means contracts increase in general, so even if he's doing a little less than those other guys in the end, it still might be roughly the same cap hit.

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

Whether we like it or not, Petey's putting up similar points to these guys; therefore, the comparison is going to be there and arguments are going to be made in terms of what Petey could make based on those guys. We also have to consider the cap ceiling going up which also means contracts increase in general, so even if he's doing a little less than those other guys in the end, it still might be roughly the same cap hit.

 

Personally I think it's all about finding value for dollars.  If we're paying Petey $12.5M and getting $10M in performance, we've lost value.  If having 2 guys making $6M each, but providing $7M in value each, we'd be better off.  Think how VGK would be if they had Matthews instead of Marchessault and Karlsson.

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

Because this isn't the first time Petey has slumped.  If I can conclude anything from his 5 seasons so far is that he's a streaky player.  He goes on an absolute tear, and then disappears for long stretches of a season.  

 

I base his future performance on his past performance.  Streak then slump then streak then slump.

 

Have you guys even looked at McDavid's game logs?  And why are you guys comparing Petey to McDavid?  McDavid is a bonafide generational talent that will go down as one of the greatest offensive players to ever play the game lmao.

 

I think the Canucks would arguably be an even stronger team if they replaced Petey with Eriksson Ek AND Brodin.

Yup. McDavid is on the level of Dionne. Great offensive talent but not a player who can lead a club to a Cup. Petey will lead us to Cups. 

[Tusk]

Well at least the Sedins are there to help Petey firgure out if he wants a Luongo contract (or OEL for that matter) or if he wants to win the cup

[Rekker]

27 minutes ago, I.Am.Ironman said:

 

I would say he has a long ways to go before surpassing Henrik. He's already an elite player, but he has a long ways to go before the Hall of Fame.

Nothing against Henrik, but how many points did he have at 25, Selke votes at 25, Calder? Henrik is the best franchise center for sure, but EP is a way better player at 25.

[The Lock]

14 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

Personally I think it's all about finding value for dollars.  If we're paying Petey $12.5M and getting $10M in performance, we've lost value.  If having 2 guys making $6M each, but providing $7M in value each, we'd be better off.  Think how VGK would be if they had Matthews instead of Marchessault and Karlsson.

 

Matthews would put Vegas over the top since they still have the depth that would likely replace Marchessault and Karlsson over time. That would be the same effect as Crosby and Malkin in Pittsburgh. Sure, they'd have letter contracts to support, but that didn't exactly stop Pittsburgh from winning cups and being a thorn in the league's side for over a decade. Think about it. Vegas would have Matthews AND Eichel. It's in a similar vein to how Toronto's been a good team for a while having Matthews and Tavares (whether we want to admit it or not).

 

Don't underestimate the power of superstars my dude. Imagine us without the Sedins because we weren't willing to sign them for the contracts they signed for (which would have been comparable to today's high contracts). What you're asking for is for us to shoot ourselves in the foot because we wouldn't be willing to have that player that the opposition has to focus on.

Edited December 14, 2023 by The Lock

[Rekker]

13 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

Personally I think it's all about finding value for dollars.  If we're paying Petey $12.5M and getting $10M in performance, we've lost value.  If having 2 guys making $6M each, but providing $7M in value each, we'd be better off.  Think how VGK would be if they had Matthews instead of Marchessault and Karlsson.

I get what you're saying. A top heavy team, especially if overpaid, is not the recipe for success. It will boil down to EP's final number. I still feel it will end up a bridge deal ending in Hughes final year. If this is the case it's to compete for a cup and I suspect a somewhat team friendly deal. EP wants nothing more than to win and I can totally respect that. 

[HKSR]

5 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

Matthews would put Vegas over the top since they still have the depth that would likely replace Marchessault and Karlsson over time. That would be the same effect as Crosby and Malkin in Pittsburgh. Sure, they'd have letter contracts to support, but that didn't exactly stop Pittsburgh from winning cups and being a thorn in the league's side for over a decade. Think about it. Vegas would have Matthews AND Eichel. It's in a similar vein to how Toronto's been a good team for a while having Matthews and Tavares (whether we want to admit it or not).

 

Don't underestimate the power of superstars my dude. Imagine us without the Sedins because we weren't willing to sign them for the contracts they signed for (which would have been comparable to today's high contracts). What you're asking for is for us to shoot ourselves in the foot because we wouldn't be willing to have that player that the opposition has to focus on.

We have the superstars.  We have the highest scoring centre in the league, the leagues highest goal scoring winger, the leagues top scoring defenceman.  What we need is a lot of quality depth to push us over the top.  Personally I think VGK wouldn't have won the Cup without Marchessault and Karlsson providing incredible value at less than $6m AAV each.  It's no different than how I doubt Colorado will win a cup now with Mackinnon no longer on a super value contract. 

[HKSR]

7 minutes ago, Rekker said:

I get what you're saying. A top heavy team, especially if overpaid, is not the recipe for success. It will boil down to EP's final number. I still feel it will end up a bridge deal ending in Hughes final year. If this is the case it's to compete for a cup and I suspect a somewhat team friendly deal. EP wants nothing more than to win and I can totally respect that. 

Yeah that's my main concern.  I have no problem paying Petey if he's providing value equal to or greater than his contract.

 

Edited December 14, 2023 by HKSR

[The Lock]

8 minutes ago, HKSR said:

We have the superstars.  We have the highest scoring centre in the league, the leagues highest goal scoring winger, the leagues top scoring defenceman.  What we need is a lot of quality depth to push us over the top.  Personally I think VGK wouldn't have won the Cup without Marchessault and Karlsson providing incredible value at less than $6m AAV each.  It's no different than how I doubt Colorado will win a cup now with Mackinnon no longer on a super value contract. 

 

But with your strategy of not willing to pay the money, we don't have this for long. That's my point. We'd be saying goodbye to Pettersson. We've eventually be saying goodbye to Hughes and Miller because we're only willing to pay 6 or 7mil contracts. We've seen how hard it can be to get good contracts at 6 or 7 mil.

 

I don't want this team to be a revolving door, which is absolutely what would happen if we went with your strategy in my opinion.

 

If Colorado loses MacKinnon for similar reasons, they don't have a Stanley cup team. I just don't see it happening with a lesser player in his spot. Let's not ignore the fact that they were only 2 points behind Vegas in the regular season and did have a chance of winning the cup last year.

Edited December 14, 2023 by The Lock

[HKSR]

4 minutes ago, The Lock said:

 

But with your strategy of not willing to pay the money, we don't have this for long. That's my point. We'd be saying goodbye to Pettersson. We've eventually be saying goodbye to Hughes and Miller because we're only willing to pay 6 or 7mil contracts. We've seen how hard it can be to get good contracts at 6 or 7 mil.

 

I don't want this team to be a revolving door, which is absolutely what would happen if we went with your strategy in my opinion.

 

If Colorado loses MacKinnon for similar reasons, they don't have a Stanley cup team. I just don't see it happening with a lesser player in his spot.

Never said that.  If the player is consistently a $12m player, then by all means, sign him up.  But if the player is a $12m player 40% to 50% of the time, I have issues with it.

[Diamonds]

2 hours ago, Strawbone said:

I've said this a few times before, but I'll never understand why a player wouldn't sign an $8M contract instead of a $10M contract when it could mean the difference between having one or two more solid players on your team and winning a Stanley Cup, or just being on a good team that doesn't quite have what it takes. When the dollar figures are that high, I'd way rather have success than more money.

Because ego. Also because agents are greedy. 

 

You're right though, whether you make $8M or $10M shouldn't have any noticeable difference on your quality of living. You would think competitive players would prefer to win rather than have a Bugatti instead of a McLaren.

[The Lock]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Never said that.  If the player is consistently a $12m player, then by all means, sign him up.  But if the player is a $12m player 40% to 50% of the time, I have issues with it.

 

Well that's what we have to consider with developing players. Pettersson's 25. He's still likely to improve give the prime time of a player is late 20's. If at the end of the season, we're having the conversation of him improving on his 102 points last season, we might have to take that risk in paying him what we think he's going to achieve in his prime or else have a shorter contract again.

 

Would it suck if he doesn't play up to the $12mil contract if that's what he gets? Sure. However, how often do we get the chance of even having a player like Pettersson? We've been going through years of being a poor team and arguably have only Pettersson and Hughes as superstars drafted out of that.

 

So let me ask you think, would you rather:

1) Pay $12mil for Pettersson who performs at $10mil (still better than everyone else on the team), or

2) Wait 10 years for another Pettersson to show up?

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

49 minutes ago, Rekker said:

Nothing against Henrik, but how many points did he have at 25, Selke votes at 25, Calder? Henrik is the best franchise center for sure, but EP is a way better player at 25.

Henrik had 301 points at age 25 after his 6th season. Petey is on pace for over 400 points after this year, also his 6th season. Henrik didn’t crack 100 points until he was 29. Petey has already hit 100 points at age 24. 
 

If Petey remains a Canuck for his entire career, he will easily become the Canucks top scorer and also our best ever centre. Petey and Hughes will be competing for the best ever Canuck if they both retire here. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, HKSR said:

To VAN

Joel Eriksson Ek

Jonas Brodin

 

To MIN

Elias Pettersson

One of our higher end prospects

We finally found Jim Benning’s burner account. 

[Rekker]

6 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Henrik had 301 points at age 25 after his 6th season. Petey is on pace for over 400 points after this year, also his 6th season. Henrik didn’t crack 100 points until he was 29. Petey has already hit 100 points at age 24. 
 

If Petey remains a Canuck for his entire career, he will easily become the Canucks top scorer and also our best ever centre. Petey and Hughes will be competing for the best ever Canuck if they both retire here. 

What if you take into account games played not seasons? Seasons can be misleading, IE Covid years.

[Elias Pettersson]

5 minutes ago, Rekker said:

What if you take into account games played not seasons? Seasons can be misleading, IE Covid years.

True. After 6 seasons, Henrik played 482 games and had 301 points. So his PPG was 0.62. Petey so far has 360 points in 354 games. So his PPG is 1.01. 
 

So Petey is miles ahead of Henrik in terms of production at age 25. 

Edited December 14, 2023 by Elias Pettersson

[Rick_theRyper]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

True. After 6 seasons, Henrik played 482 games and had 301 points. So his PPG was 0.62. Petey so far has 360 points in 354 games. So his PPG is 1.01. 
 

So Petey is miles ahead of Henrik in terms of production at age 25. 

He's far surpassed their drive to compete physically too. He is going to be something special. Not a knock on the Sedins at all. Lock Petey up in the summer.