[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Coconuts]

Does anyone seriously expect Pettersson to get less than 10.5-11M? Even on a shorter term deal? 

 

Boggles the mind.

 

You don't get a mid 20's player who just put up 100 points, and who's on pace to do it again for 9Mish when said player's extension is pending.

 

And before someone says it, Elias is younger than Miller, Miller's contract likely factors in his decline, even a max term contract for Elias likely takes him to an agr where he's still productive to some degree.

Edited December 15, 2023 by Coconuts

[Tusk]

5 hours ago, HKSR said:

Lock him in at a lower cap hit for the next 3 years (current window) so his contract expires at the same time as Hughes, then we can assess what we have then and either re-sign them or move 1 or both to retool for a 2nd window.  

I am hoping he will offset the Hughes timeline, it might be the only way to keep both of them. So like 6 years at JTs price plus a porche and a cow or something

 

[Tusk]

5 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Does anyone seriously expect Pettersson to get less than 10.5-11M? Even on a shorter term deal? 

 

Boggles the mind.

 

You don't get a mid 20's player who just put up 100 points, and who's on pace to do it again for 9Mish when said player's extension is pending.

 

And before someone says it, Elias is younger than Miller, Miller's contract likely factors in his decline, even a max term contract for Elias likely takes him to an agr where he's still productive to some degree.

I will say it.... if we dont get the cup this year, we will have to live without Petey if he wants more than JT.

 

The team we have is perfect right now. And we have the call-ups we need for the expected injuries. But Petey is not the only one needing a contract in July.

AND TO BE FAIR.... Myers "cap space" is not really all available because he is one of the guys we need to re-sign.

[JeremyCuddles]

5 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Does anyone seriously expect Pettersson to get less than 10.5-11M? Even on a shorter term deal? 

 

Boggles the mind.

 

You don't get a mid 20's player who just put up 100 points, and who's on pace to do it again for 9Mish when said player's extension is pending.

 

And before someone says it, Elias is younger than Miller, Miller's contract likely factors in his decline, even a max term contract for Elias likely takes him to an agr where he's still productive to some degree.

I mean, I doubt Miller's contract accounts for decline. GMs don't give a shit about 6 years from now. Look at OEL's contract. There's no way that accounted for his potential decline. Same with guys like Huderbeau and Kadri and the list goes on of late 20s early 30 year old's contracts aging like milk. GMs will pay whatever it takes to get a guy on their team if it helps them win now. Even if it torches the team long term. I am not saying Petey will get 9mil, he'll get 11mil at a minimum. I am just saying I don't think any GM gives a shit if a player is overpaid 5-6 years from now. Every team in the league has or had recently one of those ass cheek contracts they signed 5 years ago that was good but isn't anymore.

[Diamonds]

30 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

I mean, I doubt Miller's contract accounts for decline. GMs don't give a shit about 6 years from now. Look at OEL's contract. There's no way that accounted for his potential decline. Same with guys like Huderbeau and Kadri and the list goes on of late 20s early 30 year old's contracts aging like milk. GMs will pay whatever it takes to get a guy on their team if it helps them win now. Even if it torches the team long term. I am not saying Petey will get 9mil, he'll get 11mil at a minimum. I am just saying I don't think any GM gives a shit if a player is overpaid 5-6 years from now. Every team in the league has or had recently one of those ass cheek contracts they signed 5 years ago that was good but isn't anymore.

If you look at the pay structure for Miller's contract, his age was definitely factored in. He makes $9.5M this year but $7M the final two years.

 

Miller outperforming his cap hit right now is awesome, but that doesn't suddenly make his contract a comparable for Pettersson and there are multiple reasons why.

[Coconuts]

52 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I will say it.... if we dont get the cup this year, we will have to live without Petey if he wants more than JT.

 

The team we have is perfect right now. And we have the call-ups we need for the expected injuries. But Petey is not the only one needing a contract in July.

AND TO BE FAIR.... Myers "cap space" is not really all available because he is one of the guys we need to re-sign.

 

It's not Pettersson's job to take less so management can figure out their cap structure and expecting him to isn't realistic 

 

Management gets paid handsomely to figure that stuff out, you seem teams dole out large contracts every year and we won't be any different

 

An 100 point RFA is going to get paid, it is what it is

 

If you're bothered by the thought of Pettersson making 10-12M just wait til Hughes is due for a raise, with the incoming cap increases between now and his contract expiry he'll likely get paid even more

 

The cost of success, whether that's individual or team success, is players getting paid, and players get paid regardless of whether you win a cup or not

Edited December 15, 2023 by Coconuts

[IBatch]

6 hours ago, Coconuts said:

Does anyone seriously expect Pettersson to get less than 10.5-11M? Even on a shorter term deal? 

 

Boggles the mind.

 

You don't get a mid 20's player who just put up 100 points, and who's on pace to do it again for 9Mish when said player's extension is pending.

 

And before someone says it, Elias is younger than Miller, Miller's contract likely factors in his decline, even a max term contract for Elias likely takes him to an agr where he's still productive to some degree.

At the same time.   Miller isn't that much older than EP is now, when he put up 99 points.   And he's on pace right now to smash that, and is getting how much again?  EPs not going to score 50% more than Miller is, has been, yet a lot of people think 12 is "fair".   It's not.   Also doesn't really make sense either.  

[IBatch]

54 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

It's not Pettersson's job to take less so management can figure out their cap structure and expecting him to isn't realistic 

 

Management gets paid handsomely to figure that stuff out, you seem teams dole out large contracts every year and we won't be any different

 

An 100 point RFA is going to get paid, it is what it is

 

If you're bothered by the thought of Pettersson making 10-12M just wait til Hughes is due for a raise, with the incoming cap increases between now and his contract expiry he'll likely get paid even more

 

The cost of success, whether that's individual or team success, is players getting paid, and players get paid regardless of whether you win a cup or not

Yes 100 point MT got paid.  And it wasn't 12.   Get the taxes too.  

[KoreanHockeyFan]

Starting to think this is going to result in a 3-4 year deal around 10-11 million.

 

Allvin's not going to give him 12+ million for 8 years cause Hughes and Miller are overshadowing Petey right now. Petey knows this but doesn't wanna lock himself long term cause he knows he's younger than Miller and can command a bigger price as Miller ages. He'll continue to bet on himself.

 

Is that too much of a stretch?

[spook007]

13 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

It's not Pettersson's job to take less so management can figure out their cap structure and expecting him to isn't realistic 

 

Management gets paid handsomely to figure that stuff out, you seem teams dole out large contracts every year and we won't be any different

 

An 100 point RFA is going to get paid, it is what it is

 

If you're bothered by the thought of Pettersson making 10-12M just wait til Hughes is due for a raise, with the incoming cap increases between now and his contract expiry he'll likely get paid even more

 

The cost of success, whether that's individual or team success, is players getting paid, and players get paid regardless of whether you win a cup or not

This...

Like it or lump it. Petey will be paid either by us or somebody else. 
But he will be paid... I'm starting to wonder if he'll do a 3 year deal, and then he'll get paid handsomely once they are past the worst of the OEL penalty. 
 

But all the top players gets paid. 
Anything below 11 will mean Petey left money on the table. Especially with taxes ect... it is, what it is...

[N4ZZY]

I don't care. just sign the man. 

 

[LillStrimma]

On 12/16/2023 at 12:35 AM, IBatch said:

At the same time.   Miller isn't that much older than EP is now, when he put up 99 points.   And he's on pace right now to smash that, and is getting how much again?  EPs not going to score 50% more than Miller is, has been, yet a lot of people think 12 is "fair".   It's not.   Also doesn't really make sense either.  

What fans seems to miss is that when the other team is afraid of what Petey does it opens up for the other players.

Miller is the one that has most point due to that fact.

Petey knows this. Miller knows this. Allvin knows  this and most importantly, Peteys agent knows this.

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, LillStrimma said:

What fans seems to miss is that when the other team is afraid of what Petey does it opens up for the other players.

Miller is the one that has most point due to that fact.

Petey knows this. Miller knows this. Allvin knows  this and most importantly, Peteys agent knows this.

Don't think anyone is saying saying EP isn't the better player, the point is, it doesn't make a lot of sense that he gets paid 50% more either.   Close to 10% of the cap isn't chump change.   If you're making 14% plus of the cap, and don't perform like a top five player league wide, the team suffers.   Naslund got the most so far, 13.6%, and that was after proving he was the best LW in the league, and arguably the best player in the world.    Guess what that equals? The Sedins got a five year at less then 11%.   After several years of a PPG, in a flat cap dynamic.   That's a 9.5ish - 11.92 range.    Naslund's was a UFA deal as well.    Only other player to get close to that was Luongo's short Nonis deal when he first came in.    Have zero issue with 12, just saying that we'd need him to actually be the best if he's going to be paid like the best.   So far, he's not even the best forward on his own team this season, and well Miller has been the best overall since his arrival.    At some point you need to stop paying for potential.    Unless he explodes down the stretch,  fully expect to see the deal under 11.   Think Barkov/MT, not Mckinnon. 

Edited December 17, 2023 by IBatch

[LillStrimma]

21 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Don't think anyone is saying saying EP isn't the better player, the point is, it doesn't make a lot of sense that he gets paid 50% more either.   Close to 10% of the cap isn't chump change.   If you're making 14% plus of the cap, and don't perform like a top five player league wide, the team suffers.   Naslund got the most so far, 13.6%, and that was after proving he was the best LW in the league, and arguably the best player in the world.    Guess what that equals? The Sedins got a five year at less then 11%.   After several years of a PPG, in a flat cap dynamic.   That's a 9.5ish - 11.92 range.    Naslund's was a UFA deal as well.    Only other player to get close to that was Luongo's short Nonis deal when he first came in.    Have zero issue with 12, just saying that we'd need him to actually be the best if he's going to be paid like the best.   So far, he's not even the best forward on his own team this season, and well Miller has been the best overall since his arrival.    At some point you need to stop paying for potential.    Unless he explodes down the stretch,  fully expect to see the deal under 11.   Think Barkov/MT, not Mckinnon. 

According to your opinion McDavid is paid too much since he just don’t have multipoint games all the time.

When a team nullify the best player it usually opens up for the other.

Last games par example both top lines struggled and the third line got the easiest path. 
Should we pay Garland, Joshua the ten mill or what?

[IBatch]

7 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

According to your opinion McDavid is paid too much since he just don’t have multipoint games all the time.

When a team nullify the best player it usually opens up for the other.

Last games par example both top lines struggled and the third line got the easiest path. 
Should we pay Garland, Joshua the ten mill or what?

Not at all.  He's one of if not the best player in the planet, consistently, generational talent.  He also could have asked for the max, but didn't, instead he left money on the table so EDM had a chance to build a cup winner.    EP hasn't done enough to make 14% of the cap IMO.    And that's a very reasonable ask, if you look at who's actually got that sort of money all-time.   Not many, it's a very small list.  

Edited December 17, 2023 by IBatch

[LillStrimma]

Just now, IBatch said:

Not at all.  He's one of if not the best player in the planet, consistently, generational talent.  He also could have asked for the max, but didn't, instead he left money on the table so EDM had a chance to build a cup winner. 

But why was he cold a long time this season? 
Your and others argument why Petey should take less is because of an injury.

You know what Petey can do and still you talk as if he is less of a player than McKinnon par example.

Petey crush McDavid in playoffs. 
That winners mentality is worth more than score easy points during the dull 82 game season.

[Kevin Biestra]

5 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

But why was he cold a long time this season? 
Your and others argument why Petey should take less is because of an injury.

You know what Petey can do and still you talk as if he is less of a player than McKinnon par example.

Petey crush McDavid in playoffs. 
That winners mentality is worth more than score easy points during the dull 82 game season.

 

 

In the last two playoffs McDavid has had 33 points in 16 games and 20 points in 12 games.  18 goals in those 28 games.  Pettersson hasn't done anything like that in the regular season, let alone the playoffs.

 

It's fun to bash McDavid but I don't think saying Petey crushes McDavid in the playoffs at this point is realistic.  McDavid two years ago was arguably the best playoffs any forward has had in decades.

[IBatch]

Just now, LillStrimma said:

But why was he cold a long time this season? 
Your and others argument why Petey should take less is because of an injury.

You know what Petey can do and still you talk as if he is less of a player than McKinnon par example.

Petey crush McDavid in playoffs. 
That winners mentality is worth more than score easy points during the dull 82 game season.

Well hopefully EP will get a chance to show that.    McDavids gigantic pile of individual hardware is only missing a Conn Smythe and a cup.    That would for sure push EP into the discussion of actually being one of the best players in the world, as in a superstar.   By definition, there can on be one or two superstars at any given time.    There are for sure a lot more guys a tier down.   They don't make 14 plus % of the cap though.    We are toast if we sign EP to a Tavares like deal, and he doesn't take the next step, and just is, well a Tavares (also very good, but not exceptional).     We also can't afford not to have him.   Sure hope he doesn't gut the team and isn't too greedy. 

[LillStrimma]

10 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

In the last two playoffs McDavid has had 33 points in 16 games and 20 points in 12 games.  18 goals in those 28 games.  Pettersson hasn't done anything like that in the regular season, let alone the playoffs.

 

It's fun to bash McDavid but I don't think saying Petey crushes McDavid in the playoffs at this point is realistic.  McDavid two years ago was arguably the best playoffs any forward has had in decades.

You’re right, I was caught in emotional distress. 
 

As a siddnote Petey just have to go 1,75 points in 32 games to reach McDavids playoff stats… Easy 

Edited December 17, 2023 by LillStrimma

[LillStrimma]

5 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Well hopefully EP will get a chance to show that.    McDavids gigantic pile of individual hardware is only missing a Conn Smythe and a cup.    That would for sure push EP into the discussion of actually being one of the best players in the world, as in a superstar.   By definition, there can on be one or two superstars at any given time.    There are for sure a lot more guys a tier down.   They don't make 14 plus % of the cap though.    We are toast if we sign EP to a Tavares like deal, and he doesn't take the next step, and just is, well a Tavares (also very good, but not exceptional).     We also can't afford not to have him.   Sure hope he doesn't gut the team and isn't too greedy. 

Petey has already taken the next step. 
He just need the Sedinery hardness on top of it. 
Why do you bother about injuries? 

If Petey can’t stay healthy it is an issue but we’re not there yet.

[IBatch]

39 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

 

In the last two playoffs McDavid has had 33 points in 16 games and 20 points in 12 games.  18 goals in those 28 games.  Pettersson hasn't done anything like that in the regular season, let alone the playoffs.

 

It's fun to bash McDavid but I don't think saying Petey crushes McDavid in the playoffs at this point is realistic.  McDavid two years ago was arguably the best playoffs any forward has had in decades.

 

Yes that was a strange point, thanks for bringing that up.   He also had one of the most dominant seasons a hockey players had in at least 3 decades.    Either Jagr or Mario was the last player to do that.    Jagr's dead puck era stuff was something too.  

 

Like poking fun at McDavid too.   Doesn't have the same appeal as Sid the Kid or Ovi, despite creating a similar legacy.    Quite a few fans preferred McKinnon's game a few years back, when there was a debate on who was the best in the league.    Some also feel/felt Draisatl was/is the better of the two.      EPs very good too, but we need to see him drive his own line more to enter that top level pay scale, or at least be a little more consistent.   Sedins were the gold level of consistent.   EP is better than Hank was at the same ages.     Only Bure really can compare to that.   And he could play with fourth liners and make a scoring line all on his own.     That's what a superstar is.  Crosby did that for years after he was paid.  Took a long time to get a Guentzal for him. 

 

Yes cap is going up.   So add that 5% bump, to whatever is fair market value.   So far, he's a star player, just below the top tier.    IMO anyways.    And do think he's got an Art Ross in him possibly.     I'd have to think long and hard, if i'd rather have Federov instead.  Was he a superstar?  One year yes.    Was also so good defensively, they'd play him on the point in the PP, and sometimes play him on the D when they needed some depth there.   
 

Barkov gets all the tough assignments in Florida.   Is a very different player.   This year, for the most part, Miller and Brock have been tasked at home to play the best of the best.   Look at our home record.   It's sick.  

 

We need EP for this team to take the next step undoubtedly, and he is the best player on the team.    This might not be popular, but have been saying since last year, it has to go by cap percentage.    And at some point we can't keep paying these guys for potential anymore.   We've seen enough, he deserves to be paid like a top five center.   Barkov is six at 10.   But have to go by cap percentage too.   He's of course worth more than Huberdough.   One of the worst contracts in the league.    He's not worth more than McDavid or Mckinnon.   And he's not signing a 27-28 year old UFA deal like Tavares either.   14% would be the max for me.   Would make him the highest paid Canuck all-time.   Comes in at just under 12.  

 

But don't feel he's earned it really either.   But he could this season still.    Needs to follow up like MT did, another 100 point year, and also keep it up come the post season.   That would satisfy me anyways.    But don't think he's 50% better than Miller either.   Or 45% given cap going up and the time of his starting cap hit. 

 

Canuck fans have a long history of been extra tough on their star players.   I'd hate to see EP end up becoming one of those.  Fully expect it to happen at times no matter what his pay is.  This is one part of the cap era I don't like.   Prior to salary disclosure, nobody cared or talked about it.    We're just stoked to have good players on their team.   That started to change, and really changed once the internet was dialed in, and it was easy to access their paycheques.    Once the cap came in..yikes.   
 

And for good reason too.   It's awfully hard to make a winning team with few to no holes.   And everyone has somewhat a level playing field.    My hope is it's less then 11 or low 11's.  Cap won't go up in giant leeps.   A 3-6% raise in cap is what to expect without expansion.   Which I also truly hope doesn't happen for at least a decade.   

 

Teams need to be awfully cognizant in how to spend.   The league also needs another round of free buyouts,  but am kind of glad it didn't happen.    GMs need to be sharper on their pencils.    The reported cap increase is going to be all gone with raises this summer.   Bet on it.   Any team with a little extra cap, is still going to get the sort of opportunities, we had this year with Zadarov. 

 

 

Edited December 17, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

EP is 25th in point the last 5 years for all forwards.   JT Miller is 9th, right behind Mathews.    A margin of 45 points.   McDavid has 70% more points there abouts, 224 more.   Draisatl, Mckinnon and Pastrnak all have 25 or more points on average, each season.    Panarin is next and also has considerably more as well.   Aho is just ahead of him right now.   Injuries and slumps were a factor..Buts is only a margin of 20-25 games.   That's it.  McKinnon who's 3rd, has 105 more points, in two less games.   Let's make this real folks.    Top five is a stretch.   That's right now too, not just the past. 

 

More than 10 yes.   Starting cap percentage in the 12.5  range, for me at least is about bang on.   14% tops, and that's for an 8 year deal.    It's not like he was paid poorly for his bridge either.  One year almost par value 2 over.   

 

Edit:  It's also fair to say, EP will be a top ten point getter over the next 5-7 years too.     At some point though, we do need to stop paying for potential.   Pretty sure what we see right now, this season and last season, is what we get.   That's top ten.    Which gets you a double digit contract.    10.9-11.   With the cap increase, basing it all on 87.5.    12.5%   That's a fair deal IMO.    Not a discount.   Pays most of the taxes on MT and Barkov's deals as well.     Sure hope so anyways.   Because I don't want to watch EP get torn to shreds on here if he isn't playing to his cap hit.   That sort of money, you par at around 100 points to start.   Doesn't need to score 110-120.   Don't really think that's where we should price him at to start.   Especially give his D game evolving.   

Edited December 17, 2023 by IBatch

[IBatch]

59 minutes ago, LillStrimma said:

Petey has already taken the next step. 
He just need the Sedinery hardness on top of it. 
Why do you bother about injuries? 

If Petey can’t stay healthy it is an issue but we’re not there yet.

Injuries of course are factored in.   Feel he's playing through something right now.   82 plus up to 25 plus extra tough games a year isn't an easy thing on the body.    He's absolutely putting in the work.   No we aren't there yet.   And hope he's ok.    Watch EP explode in the second half.    After the all-star break maybe even.   

[LillStrimma]

33 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Injuries of course are factored in.   Feel he's playing through something right now.   82 plus up to 25 plus extra tough games a year isn't an easy thing on the body.    He's absolutely putting in the work.   No we aren't there yet.   And hope he's ok.    Watch EP explode in the second half.    After the all-star break maybe even.   

He weighs too little yet. 
So I think it will be maybe two seasons more before we see the Foppa in him coming out fully.

After that you can start comparing him with the top 3. 

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, LillStrimma said:

He weighs too little yet. 
So I think it will be maybe two seasons more before we see the Foppa in him coming out fully.

After that you can start comparing him with the top 3. 

Think so yes!  That's the hope.   Like that he's adding hitting to his game, he likes it too ... realizes it can open up ice timed well.   And change the momentum of a shift.   His battle game has upped, room for growth.   

Edited December 17, 2023 by IBatch