N4ZZY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: JT is a better player than EP at age 26?? JT have the superior linemates vs EP the current and last 2 seasons.. playing with QH and boeser exclusively 5v5 helps while EP playing exclusively with a guy who's career high is 32 points in his career. JT at 31 is at best = to EP at 26 so a guy's peak prime is = to another players start of prime therefore they should be paid the same because no way EP can improve? JT contract is only at 8.5 because his last 2-3 years maybe more is guaranteed to be an anchor unless a miracle happens and he's another Pavelski.. if he was 26 27 at the time? you think he's signing for 8.5mil? JT definitely not better than Petey. Whoever says that is crazy. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 2 hours ago, wai_lai416 said: JT is a better player than EP at age 26?? JT have the superior linemates vs EP the current and last 2 seasons.. playing with QH and boeser exclusively 5v5 helps while EP playing exclusively with a guy who's career high is 32 points in his career. JT at 31 is at best = to EP at 26 so a guy's peak prime is = to another players start of prime therefore they should be paid the same because no way EP can improve? JT contract is only at 8.5 because his last 2-3 years maybe more is guaranteed to be an anchor unless a miracle happens and he's another Pavelski.. if he was 26 27 at the time? you think he's signing for 8.5mil? No but 12 mill he is not close to a superstar and that's what they make. I think at this point 10.5 to 11 being generous. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 7 hours ago, cripplereh said: JT Miller is a comparable player to EP cept for age. JT at this time is the better of the two, so if EP wants over 11 mill he is dreaming. Well, while that is true, it was a big question mark, when JT signed his contract. If JT had been 25 years old, there is no chance we would have signed him now to that contract. JTs contract involved the risk of him falling over a cliff edge some time before the end of his contract, (don't think he will, but doubt he'll be the same player his entire contract). Petey signing an 8 years deal would cover him throughout his prime, and better than average chance he would be able to lay around the 100-100+ mark throughout the contract. Big difference between the 2. I actually think, this might be the issue, why Petey hasn't signed yet. Petey might only want to sign a 3 year deal in order to cash in on a 8 year deal afterwards. When their playing days are over, Petey is very likely to have the bigger points total over his carreer. JTs biggest problem was, he didn't really break through till later (or get the opportunity)... a bit like mcCann in Seattle. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jester13 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 $90 million is the max I'd be comfortable with being fair for both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 6 hours ago, cripplereh said: No but 12 mill he is not close to a superstar and that's what they make. I think at this point 10.5 to 11 being generous. again cap% is the number we should be looking at not actual cap hit. Mackinnon when he signed his cap was 15% of the salary cap. let say if the cap is at 88mil this coming season.. EP would need to sign at 13.5mi+ to be equivalent to what Mackinnon makes. you guys need to get your head out of your ass when throwing out salary and comparing cap hit. mcdavid signed for like 16.67% of the cap mackinnon signed for 15.27% of the cap pastrnak signed for 13.64% of the cap even if EP signs for 11mil just for arguement sake.. that's 12.5% of the cap.. no where close to the 13.6-16% the so call top tier players are making.. so stop using the arguement oh he shouldn't make anywhere close to mackinnon mcdavid or whoever else.. otherwise why are there so many ppl making more money than crosby when he signed his contract?? would u take any of those players over crosby? just because the salary cap goes up.. doesn't really mean you have more money to spend on new contracts.. it only benefit existing contracts.. it's like your minimum wage goes up.. but at the same time everything else you pay for goes up.. so really you still can't afford anything extra.. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 (edited) 7 hours ago, cripplereh said: No but 12 mill he is not close to a superstar and that's what they make. I think at this point 10.5 to 11 being generous. He's definitely worth more than 10.5 in my opinion. He's probably closer to 11-11.5M. 10.5M for a 100 point producer? I mean, Matthew Tkachuk's salary is 11.25 million, and he's, I think, a more complete player than Petey is, but he's a 100 point producer, physical, etc. If Petey's putting up the same amount of points, why is he worth 10.5 million compared to Tkachuk? Edited January 4 by N4ZZY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdgarM Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 8 hours ago, N4ZZY said: JT definitely not better than Petey. Whoever says that is crazy. Call me crazy then because I think Miller is better then Petey right now. Miller is more physical and has the Leadership qualities in him. Also, if you want to be the top dog centremen on the team you need to be good at face offs. Under 50% doesn't cut it. Another dept. where Miller is better then Petey. Petey has the "potential" yes, but he is not better then Miller right now. Does that change in the future? Definitely, but for now Miller is the better man. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 1 hour ago, EdgarM said: Call me crazy then because I think Miller is better then Petey right now. Miller is more physical and has the Leadership qualities in him. Also, if you want to be the top dog centremen on the team you need to be good at face offs. Under 50% doesn't cut it. Another dept. where Miller is better then Petey. Petey has the "potential" yes, but he is not better then Miller right now. Does that change in the future? Definitely, but for now Miller is the better man. I think Petey is better than Miller skills wise, and he's already producing at the same pace Miller is, but is 5-6 years younger. That in itself would indicate that he's the better player production wise and skill wise. Leadership wise, I'd agree Petey doesn't lead the way Miller does, and face offs, Petey definitely needs to get better at. But he's still young, and he can still improve in that area of his game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/cap-hit/center/ An NHL centerman always commands more value than a forward of similar age and production. Given that, how do you think EP stands up to this list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 minutes ago, higgyfan said: https://www.spotrac.com/nhl/rankings/cap-hit/center/ An NHL centerman always commands more value than a forward of similar age and production. Given that, how do you think EP stands up to this list? based on that list, an 11 mil AAV? given when some of the 10 mil contracts were inked? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 10 minutes ago, Bob Long said: based on that list, an 11 mil AAV? given when some of the 10 mil contracts were inked? That's what I was thinking. Of course, there are some fws that have better contracts, such as Tketchup, who has a very low cap. I don't know if that is due to signing in Fla, which has a bonus in cost of living, taxes or whatever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 3 hours ago, N4ZZY said: He's definitely worth more than 10.5 in my opinion. He's probably closer to 11-11.5M. 10.5M for a 100 point producer? I mean, Matthew Tkachuk's salary is 11.25 million, and he's, I think, a more complete player than Petey is, but he's a 100 point producer, physical, etc. If Petey's putting up the same amount of points, why is he worth 10.5 million compared to Tkachuk? Why are you using salary instead of the Cap Hit? Who cares about salary when it’s the Cap Hit required for making up a team roster. Tkachuck cap hit is $9.5M x 8yrs. Sure…let’s get EP signed to a similar deal. Or up it to an even $10M x 8yrs. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NHL97OneTimer Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 4 hours ago, EdgarM said: Call me crazy then because I think Miller is better then Petey right now. Miller is more physical and has the Leadership qualities in him. Also, if you want to be the top dog centremen on the team you need to be good at face offs. Under 50% doesn't cut it. Another dept. where Miller is better then Petey. Petey has the "potential" yes, but he is not better then Miller right now. Does that change in the future? Definitely, but for now Miller is the better man. This. EP has more value because of his age but right now JT is more complete. Splitting hairs a bit, but it makes me think the 8 x $11M/yr contract proposals out here are crazy and the golden path to the destruction of this team. The salary cap will not go up quick enough for most teams to keep up, so teams will have to cut corners where they can still for another 2-3 years at least. So does EP want the most money or the best chance of winning here? There's no wrong answer and he's earned his choice but that's the reality for the GM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cripplereh Posted January 4 Share Posted January 4 5 hours ago, N4ZZY said: He's definitely worth more than 10.5 in my opinion. He's probably closer to 11-11.5M. 10.5M for a 100 point producer? I mean, Matthew Tkachuk's salary is 11.25 million, and he's, I think, a more complete player than Petey is, but he's a 100 point producer, physical, etc. If Petey's putting up the same amount of points, why is he worth 10.5 million compared to Tkachuk? Two big differences.Tkachuk takes more penalties but at the same time he's more physical but he also draws more penalties and by a big margin.Tkachuk is also a game changer more the EP.That can be debated but I think Tkachuk is a more rounded player making him worth at least a mill more.Arguements like this will be brought up and other players stats but so far EP looks to be a 10.5 to 11 max at thus time which is when his contract is up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duodenum Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, cripplereh said: Two big differences.Tkachuk takes more penalties but at the same time he's more physical but he also draws more penalties and by a big margin.Tkachuk is also a game changer more the EP.That can be debated but I think Tkachuk is a more rounded player making him worth at least a mill more.Arguements like this will be brought up and other players stats but so far EP looks to be a 10.5 to 11 max at thus time which is when his contract is up. Pettersson nets more man advantages than Tkachuk does, by a large degree. Petey has been a pretty good 2-way player over his career, don't know how a winger not really known for his defense is above him in terms of well-roundedness. Petey is going to start with an 11, guaranteed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 7 hours ago, BPA said: Why are you using salary instead of the Cap Hit? Who cares about salary when it’s the Cap Hit required for making up a team roster. Tkachuck cap hit is $9.5M x 8yrs. Sure…let’s get EP signed to a similar deal. Or up it to an even $10M x 8yrs. I'd be okay with a cap hit of 10M x 8 years. The question is, if Petey is good with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 20 hours ago, higgyfan said: That's what I was thinking. Of course, there are some fws that have better contracts, such as Tketchup, who has a very low cap. I don't know if that is due to signing in Fla, which has a bonus in cost of living, taxes or whatever. He must want $12 plus otherwise the contract is likely already signed at $11. I expect he will wait out the year to see how the team does and where the cap ceiling lands. Doesn't help the team plan (to be a winner) but dude wants his money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 11 minutes ago, NoCupSyndrome said: He must want $12 plus otherwise the contract is likely already signed at $11. I expect he will wait out the year to see how the team does and where the cap ceiling lands. Doesn't help the team plan (to be a winner) but dude wants his money. ____________________________________________________________________________________ There's no way for us to know what EP wants or what is going on with the contract discussions. Maybe the management has low-balled an offer, just like they did with Bo. Stop making up stories to vilify one of our team's core players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 1 hour ago, higgyfan said: 1 hour ago, NoCupSyndrome said: He must want $12 plus otherwise the contract is likely already signed at $11. I expect he will wait out the year to see how the team does and where the cap ceiling lands. Doesn't help the team plan (to be a winner) but dude wants his money. ____________________________________________________________________________________ There's no way for us to know what EP wants or what is going on with the contract discussions. Maybe the management has low-balled an offer, just like they did with Bo. Stop making up stories to vilify one of our team's core players. They did low ball Bo initially. But didn’t they come up to around $7M during the season? And when they still couldn’t come close, Bo was traded. Then Bo got his money ($8.5M) from NYI. Bo is doing well over there. 37gp 16g 22a 38pts. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 minutes ago, BPA said: They did low ball Bo initially. But didn’t they come up to around $7M during the season? And when they still couldn’t come close, Bo was traded. Then Bo got his money ($8.5M) from NYI. Bo is doing well over there. 37gp 16g 22a 38pts. Bo was about to become a UFA, so they had to let him go. His $ just couldn't fit into the team's cap. EP is about to become an RFA, so there isn't as much of a hurry to make a deal. I have no doubt they end up with a fair contract with term, but it will take some time to negotiate it. Gotta be patient. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BPA Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 (edited) 9 minutes ago, higgyfan said: Bo was about to become a UFA, so they had to let him go. His $ just couldn't fit into the team's cap. EP is about to become an RFA, so there isn't as much of a hurry to make a deal. I have no doubt they end up with a fair contract with term, but it will take some time to negotiate it. Gotta be patient. Isn’t it just one more year as RFA for EP? So even if EP accepts a QO, Canucks have one more year to hammer out a deal before he becomes a UFA. Just hope he takes a discount like Miller. Edited January 5 by BPA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
higgyfan Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 minutes ago, BPA said: Isn’t it just one more year as RFA for EP? So even if EP accepts a QO, Canucks have one more year to hammer out a deal before he becomes a UFA. Just hope he takes a discount like Miller. I would think the management prefers a contract rather than a QO. I don't know about a discount. I trust that the management will secure a fair contract with EP. At 25yrs, he is just on the verge of entering his prime and still has +++room to develop. If they end up having to trade him for bits and pieces, I think the Canucks take a step backwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 3 hours ago, BPA said: Isn’t it just one more year as RFA for EP? So even if EP accepts a QO, Canucks have one more year to hammer out a deal before he becomes a UFA. Just hope he takes a discount like Miller. he wont' take a discount. lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
N4ZZY Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 2 hours ago, higgyfan said: I would think the management prefers a contract rather than a QO. I don't know about a discount. I trust that the management will secure a fair contract with EP. At 25yrs, he is just on the verge of entering his prime and still has +++room to develop. If they end up having to trade him for bits and pieces, I think the Canucks take a step backwards. the team definitely takes a step back if Petey is gone. might as well rebuild at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MeanSeanBean Posted January 5 Share Posted January 5 On 1/4/2024 at 10:21 AM, EdgarM said: Call me crazy then because I think Miller is better then Petey right now. Miller is more physical and has the Leadership qualities in him. Also, if you want to be the top dog centremen on the team you need to be good at face offs. Under 50% doesn't cut it. Another dept. where Miller is better then Petey. Petey has the "potential" yes, but he is not better then Miller right now. Does that change in the future? Definitely, but for now Miller is the better man. You're crazy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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