[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Coconuts]

On 1/4/2024 at 1:30 PM, BPA said:

Why are you using salary instead of the Cap Hit?  Who cares about salary when it’s the Cap Hit required for making up a team roster.

 

Tkachuck cap hit is $9.5M x 8yrs.  Sure…let’s get EP signed to a similar deal.  Or up it to an even $10M x 8yrs.

 

That's not necessarily what it looks like, same goes for Barkov making 10M, Kucherov making 9.5M, Point making 9.5M, Stamkos taking 8.5M back in the day, Hedman taking 7.8M back in the day, and Vasi taking less than Bobrovsky at 9.5M. 

 

Taxes matter, Tkachuk's cap hit would have to be quite a bit larger in Vancouver for example for him to have the same take home pay. Teams like Tampa and Florida have a tax advantage. 

[Sophomore Jinx]

An analytical deep dive into Elias Pettersson’s 5-on-5 struggles this season 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

An analytical deep dive into Elias Pettersson’s 5-on-5 struggles this season 

Stats like these are for geeks who hate our club. 

[Sophomore Jinx]

8 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Stats like these are for geeks who hate our club. 

Riiiiight. Says the geek behind a puppet facade

 

 

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

Riiiiight. Says the geek behind a puppet facade

 

 

[JeremyCuddles]

25 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

An analytical deep dive into Elias Pettersson’s 5-on-5 struggles this season 

As someone that has routinely cooked Petey. One of the big things hurting that line is Mikheyev isn't a good top 6 guy. Much like Garland, he can play top 6 but ideally is used on the 3rd line. Also Kuzy is not a fit with this coach. His game and what Tocc wants are clashing. And I think it's negatively effecting that line in a pretty big way. Petey is playing with 3rd and 4th liners and a defensive liability that can't score unless it's a tap in. Not sure how much we should realistically expect from that line. I catch a lot of heat for saying this, but I never really felt Mikheyev was a good pickup. Yes on occasion he can look good, but that's more Petey propping him up than Mikheyev actually being a legit fit in the top 6. With that said, that line can function with Mikheyev and Petey. But it needs a true top 6 talent that fits with the coaching staff. Even when Kuzy plays that line is ass.

[Bobby James]

I think the Canucks needs to play Kuz with that line for 10 games or so to see if there is any real improvement. A few games then a scratch isn't working right now. 

 

Otherwise if there is a trade to be made then pull the trigger and move him and bring in another guy you feel would fit better. 

[Sophomore Jinx]

11 minutes ago, JeremyCuddles said:

As someone that has routinely cooked Petey. One of the big things hurting that line is Mikheyev isn't a good top 6 guy. Much like Garland, he can play top 6 but ideally is used on the 3rd line. Also Kuzy is not a fit with this coach. His game and what Tocc wants are clashing. And I think it's negatively effecting that line in a pretty big way. Petey is playing with 3rd and 4th liners and a defensive liability that can't score unless it's a tap in. Not sure how much we should realistically expect from that line. I catch a lot of heat for saying this, but I never really felt Mikheyev was a good pickup. Yes on occasion he can look good, but that's more Petey propping him up than Mikheyev actually being a legit fit in the top 6. With that said, that line can function with Mikheyev and Petey. But it needs a true top 6 talent that fits with the coaching staff. Even when Kuzy plays that line is ass.

I can't disagree with any of that, I was hoping for a lot more out of Mik, I was hoping there would be some finesse in his game, but he doesn't compliment EP40 well at all. Another speedster who can't seem to put it all together, or mesh with his line mates.

 

Petey does need to sometimes elevate his line though, like superstars are called upon to do, but I understand that might not be feasible when he's playing with piss for wingers on a nightly basis

[N4ZZY]

47 minutes ago, Bobby James said:

I think the Canucks needs to play Kuz with that line for 10 games or so to see if there is any real improvement. A few games then a scratch isn't working right now. 

 

Otherwise if there is a trade to be made then pull the trigger and move him and bring in another guy you feel would fit better. 

 

Can only hope they can get a player they like and want for Kuzmenko if he's not working out here. 

 

[N4ZZY]

29 minutes ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

I can't disagree with any of that, I was hoping for a lot more out of Mik, I was hoping there would be some finesse in his game, but he doesn't compliment EP40 well at all. Another speedster who can't seem to put it all together, or mesh with his line mates.

 

Petey does need to sometimes elevate his line though, like superstars are called upon to do, but I understand that might not be feasible when he's playing with piss for wingers on a nightly basis

Mik isn't a piss poor forward, though, that's the thing. He's a decent forward. Lafferty I can see as someone who might be a poor fit on Petey's line, and should be better utilized as a bottom six forward. But it is what it is at the moment. Unless management can bring in a forward they like without giving up too much for the future, because their prospects pool still isn't great, it's better than what it was, but still has a long ways to go. 

 

[43isprime]

Some of the discourse here has completely gone off the rails.

 

1. Pettersson's contract needs to have a "buffer for future success"??? What about a buffer for future non-success? Let's be real here - he's not 21, he's 25. Valuing Pettersson should now primarily be about who he is rather than who he might become.

 

2. Mackinnon's 8y x 12.6m contract started this season. This is not an outdated contract. Prior to turning 26, MacKinnon was runner up in Hart Trophy voting twice. This is simply confirmation of the very obvious (and I think accepted) fact that MacKinnon is the far superior player (and was the far superior player at age 25). MacKinnon's contract should put Pettersson's comfortably under 11m.

 

3. Any "but Mcdavid..." defense of Pettersson's value is not relevant.

 

4. I have yet to see Pettersson dominate games on a regular basis in the same way other teams' best players dominate games against the Canucks. That in and of itself should be indicative of Pettersson's value. He's clearly not among the league's best, and should not be paid like them.

 

5. You can criticize his linemates all you want, but we all have seen the way truly elite players are able to win puck battles, create chances on their own, break down defenses, create openings, swing momentum, and induce a general chaos for the opposing team. Down by a goal, they are able to create an environment where it seems tying the game is inevitable. I have not seen this from Pettersson.

 

6. In the first 18 games of the season, Pettersson scored at a 127.6 pts per 82 game pace. Over the following 20 games, he has scored at a 69.7 pts per 82 game pace. Make of that what you will.

 

7. Based on the rumors, he very well might get 11+ or 12+; the question is whether he can actually provide that value and whether the Canucks will likely be successful with him making that money.

 

8. Saying Pettersson is not worth 11+ or 12+ is not "****ting" on the player. It's simply an opinion that it would be very difficult for the team to be successful if they paid him that much. Most who say he's not worth 11+ or 12+ agree he should come in somewhere around 10m, maybe a bit above, maybe a bit below. To say that is "****ting" on the player is childish hyperbole.

 

Signing off again. Cheers all.

 

[LaBamba]

I don’t want him long term, flame alway. 

[Tusk]

5 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

That's not necessarily what it looks like, same goes for Barkov making 10M, Kucherov making 9.5M, Point making 9.5M, Stamkos taking 8.5M back in the day, Hedman taking 7.8M back in the day, and Vasi taking less than Bobrovsky at 9.5M. 

 

Taxes matter, Tkachuk's cap hit would have to be quite a bit larger in Vancouver for example for him to have the same take home pay. Teams like Tampa and Florida have a tax advantage. 

Difference is that we want Petey and Petey wants us. Take that Cap and suck it. Do the team deal till OEL falls of the cliff. Get a Cup. Get 4 Cups and you can work out in Bali like a Kuzmenko.

[HKSR]

31 minutes ago, 43isprime said:

Some of the discourse here has completely gone off the rails.

 

1. Pettersson's contract needs to have a "buffer for future success"??? What about a buffer for future non-success? Let's be real here - he's not 21, he's 25. Valuing Pettersson should now primarily be about who he is rather than who he might become.

 

2. Mackinnon's 8y x 12.6m contract started this season. This is not an outdated contract. Prior to turning 26, MacKinnon was runner up in Hart Trophy voting twice. This is simply confirmation of the very obvious (and I think accepted) fact that MacKinnon is the far superior player (and was the far superior player at age 25). MacKinnon's contract should put Pettersson's comfortably under 11m.

 

3. Any "but Mcdavid..." defense of Pettersson's value is not relevant.

 

4. I have yet to see Pettersson dominate games on a regular basis in the same way other teams' best players dominate games against the Canucks. That in and of itself should be indicative of Pettersson's value. He's clearly not among the league's best, and should not be paid like them.

 

5. You can criticize his linemates all you want, but we all have seen the way truly elite players are able to win puck battles, create chances on their own, break down defenses, create openings, swing momentum, and induce a general chaos for the opposing team. Down by a goal, they are able to create an environment where it seems tying the game is inevitable. I have not seen this from Pettersson.

 

6. In the first 18 games of the season, Pettersson scored at a 127.6 pts per 82 game pace. Over the following 20 games, he has scored at a 69.7 pts per 82 game pace. Make of that what you will.

 

7. Based on the rumors, he very well might get 11+ or 12+; the question is whether he can actually provide that value and whether the Canucks will likely be successful with him making that money.

 

8. Saying Pettersson is not worth 11+ or 12+ is not "****ting" on the player. It's simply an opinion that it would be very difficult for the team to be successful if they paid him that much. Most who say he's not worth 11+ or 12+ agree he should come in somewhere around 10m, maybe a bit above, maybe a bit below. To say that is "****ting" on the player is childish hyperbole.

 

Signing off again. Cheers all.

 

Whoa... nice post.  Well done.

[aGENT]

4 hours ago, JeremyCuddles said:

As someone that has routinely cooked Petey. One of the big things hurting that line is Mikheyev isn't a good top 6 guy. Much like Garland, he can play top 6 but ideally is used on the 3rd line. Also Kuzy is not a fit with this coach. His game and what Tocc wants are clashing. And I think it's negatively effecting that line in a pretty big way. Petey is playing with 3rd and 4th liners and a defensive liability that can't score unless it's a tap in. Not sure how much we should realistically expect from that line. I catch a lot of heat for saying this, but I never really felt Mikheyev was a good pickup. Yes on occasion he can look good, but that's more Petey propping him up than Mikheyev actually being a legit fit in the top 6. With that said, that line can function with Mikheyev and Petey. But it needs a true top 6 talent that fits with the coaching staff. Even when Kuzy plays that line is ass.

 

4 hours ago, Sophomore Jinx said:

I can't disagree with any of that, I was hoping for a lot more out of Mik, I was hoping there would be some finesse in his game, but he doesn't compliment EP40 well at all. Another speedster who can't seem to put it all together, or mesh with his line mates.

 

Petey does need to sometimes elevate his line though, like superstars are called upon to do, but I understand that might not be feasible when he's playing with piss for wingers on a nightly basis

 

Mik is not the problem on that line. The article even says as much. He's doing his job as the 2 way "mucker" on that line that can chip in offensively (but not be the main offensive contributor), and is paid accordingly (ie: not as a skilled, scoring winger).

 

What that line needs is a scoring winger that can actually play winning hockey. Precisely what they're attempting to turn Kuzmenko in to (and also precisely why, if they can't...rumours like Kuz+ for Guentzel exist). 

[Coryberg]

It's plain to see that management has known for a while that petey will be moving on. Do you think it's a coincidence that Elias Pettersson 2.0 will be coming over to North America this year? Then part way through next season they can sell Petey off to the highest bidder and quickly call up D Petey, give him #40 and half the fans won't even know!

 

[cripplereh]

On 1/4/2024 at 8:11 AM, wai_lai416 said:

again cap% is the number we should be looking at not actual cap hit. Mackinnon when he signed his cap was 15% of the salary cap. let say if the cap is at 88mil this coming season.. EP would need to sign at 13.5mi+ to be equivalent to what Mackinnon makes. you guys need to get your head out of your ass when throwing out salary and comparing cap hit. 

 

mcdavid signed for like 16.67% of the cap

mackinnon signed for 15.27% of the cap

pastrnak signed for 13.64% of the cap

 

even if EP signs for 11mil just for arguement sake.. that's 12.5% of the cap.. no where close to the 13.6-16% the so call top tier players are making.. so stop using the arguement oh he shouldn't make anywhere close to mackinnon mcdavid or whoever else.. otherwise why are there so many ppl making more money than crosby when he signed his contract?? would u take any of those players over crosby?

 

just because the salary cap goes up.. doesn't really mean you have more money to spend on new contracts.. it only benefit existing contracts.. it's like your minimum wage goes up.. but at the same time everything else you pay for goes up.. so really you still can't afford anything extra.. 

 

 

You made my point.

 

All the players you said are better then EP.So if 11 is what her gets that's max he deserves as you stated in your point.

 

Unless EP goes on a tear and gets 110 points his contract should not be more then 11 mill and if he does get 110 that's 1 year being a top tier player.

 

Plus EP is not elite but just below that which again falls into the JT group who now make around 8-9 mill.Next year that will be 10.5 ish.

 

Yes I looked at cap going up and so far I see it like I said which you helped make my point , so thanks.

[Screw]

I think 10.5m would be fair.   

[Lemon Face]

45 minutes ago, cripplereh said:

You made my point.

 

All the players you said are better then EP.So if 11 is what her gets that's max he deserves as you stated in your point.

 

Unless EP goes on a tear and gets 110 points his contract should not be more then 11 mill and if he does get 110 that's 1 year being a top tier player.

 

Plus EP is not elite but just below that which again falls into the JT group who now make around 8-9 mill.Next year that will be 10.5 ish.

 

Yes I looked at cap going up and so far I see it like I said which you helped make my point , so thanks.

Sorry to disappoint you.EP is in driver seat.You dont pay?Someone will.Wouldn't bean surprised he also want out.He is watching what is happening to other finesse players like Kuz or Hoggs..Very often scratched.

[Lemon Face]

1 minute ago, Lemon Face said:

Sorry to disappoint you.EP is in driver seat.You dont pay?Someone will.Wouldn't bean surprised he also want out.He is watching what is happening to other finesse players like Kuz or Hoggs..Very often scratched.

Of course you can find EP talent very easy.At list that is what many here think.

[EdgarM]

21 hours ago, N4ZZY said:

the team definitely takes a step back if Petey is gone. might as well rebuild at that point. 

 

Nah, Raty should be ready soon he would fit in nicely behind Miller + the return from Petey? I am not worried the least bit look how we are doing without Bo. 

[EdgarM]

21 hours ago, MeanSeanBean said:

You're crazy 

If we are in game 7 of the SCF again and I am betting on who is going to get us a goal playing against a big heavy physical team? My money is on Miller over Petey sorry. 

[Gurn]

1 hour ago, EdgarM said:

If we are in game 7 of the SCF again and I am betting on who is going to get us a goal playing against a big heavy physical team? My money is on Miller over Petey sorry. 

For this year and next year-yes

for 2 years after that -maybe

for the rest of Miller's contract -probably not.

 

 

[Gurn]

If E.P gets traded, I's suggest it is a multi stage deal.

Petey to a team for picks, then those picks go to a different team for players, kind of thing.

Like the Horvat deal.

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Gurn said:

If E.P gets traded, I's suggest it is a multi stage deal.

Petey to a team for picks, then those picks go to a different team for players, kind of thing.

Like the Horvat deal.

Horvat was a 3C for us. Petey is our 1C. Zero chance we trade him.