[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Junkyard Dog]

6 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Bottom/middle 6 bargains...

 

Hoglander 

Suter

Joshua 

Blueger

Lafferty 

Juulsen 

Desmith

 

If we could extend them at their cap hits I would sign all of them to 3 years in a heartbeat

 

All these guys who are upcoming UFAs are due for raises. They are playing well. 

 

We probably won't see them all back unless you clear some cap. 

[43isprime]

15 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

 

I don’t really get the argument that you are trying to make.  Pittsburgh won two cups with their two centres taking up over 26% of their cap.  What difference does it make that they were generational?  Does this mean that they can win a cup with a bunch of plugs playing on the team?  Did Gretzky win his cups with a bunch of plugs?  Even Gretzky needed talent around him to win it all.  Same with Lemieux.  Lemieux was better than Crosby, but he still needed Stevens, Tocchet and others to win a cup.

 

Yes, a team consists of more than 3 players.  That is why it is up to Allvin to figure things out.  It’s not up to Petey to sign for only $9 million so that Allvin has an extra $3 million to play with.  That’s not how it works.

 

Again, for the last time you even admit yourself that Petey is worth up to $12 million but according to you he shouldn’t be signing for that amount because he’s not generational.  I don’t even understand the rest of your argument, so it’s probably best to end this discussion.  

 

This is a pretty perplexing comment given how player pay is generally meant to reflect player quality. But it does explain a lot of the other stuff you've been saying.

 

 

[Elias Pettersson]

5 hours ago, 43isprime said:

 

This is a pretty perplexing comment given how player pay is generally meant to reflect player quality. But it does explain a lot of the other stuff you've been saying.

 

 

 

There is literally only one generational player in today’s game.  After McDavid every other player slots below him.  It was the same when Crosby played.  If Crosby is at 14% of the cap, that means every other player should have been well below him.  Other than Ovechkin.  That wasn’t the case.  Malkin was not a generational talent even though you labeled him as such.  And his contract was identical to Crosby’s.  

 

When Pittsburgh won the cup Crosby was only the 6th highest paid player in the league.  PK Subban was getting paid more than him.  Corey Perry had a contract almost identical to Crosby.  Were those players generational?  Jonathan Toews was the highest paid player in the league in 2015.  Was he generational?  Is Toews talked about in the same sentence as Crosby?

 

As I already stated, the cap changes every year and contracts get outdated all the time.  Matthews and MacKinnon both get paid more than McDavid right now.  That’s because the cap has gone up.  So like me and Wai have been trying to explain to you the only thing that matters is the players contract as a percentage of the cap.  The actual salary is irrelevant.  

 

Petey should be getting paid anywhere from 11-14% of the cap.  That’s his market value.  Whether he is better than other players getting paid less is irrelevant as those players now have outdated contracts.

 

Question for you. What should Petey be getting paid right now?  $9 million?  $10 million?  You said his market value is $12 million, so should he not get paid that amount, or are you trying to suggest he needs to take a discount because he is only the 3rd best player on the team?

 

FYI, after tonight’s game, I don’t think you can say Petey is only the 3rd best player on the team.  He is borderline generational right now…

[Coryberg]

8 hours ago, wai_lai416 said:

lol none of those are a “bargain” as in exceeding what they are paid.. maybe except hoglander and suter. They are exactly what they are paid.. a 3rd 4th liner playing at a 3rd 4th liner level but playing it very well. No one in their right mind would pay them extra 1-2 mil. When I say bargain I mean paid like a 3rd liner but producing like a top 6. Desmith is playing very well for a backup.. but it’s a backup not a 1b not sure how much more u wanna pay a backup

You sir are delusional. 

 

Joshua is on pace for 22 goals and 40 points.... he is only making $825,000!!!!!!

 

Lafferty is on pace for 18 goals and 36 points... he is only making $1,150,000!!!!!

 

Blueger is killing penalties, winning faceoffs and is at a .61 point per game pace (50 points over 82 pace)... he is only making $1,900,000!!!!!

 

Juulsen has been playing like a solid #6, killing penalties like a champ but only making $775,000, that is less than 98% of the league, less than an entry level contract. Definitely a bargain.

 

Desmith has the same save percentage and .1 lower GAA as demko who is the odds on favorite to win the vezina. Yes he is a backup bit os an elite backup. Some teams spend 3.5 ish million on a backup who isn't nearly as good. $2,200,000 is a bargain.

 

It's disgusting that I actually had to break that all down for you. It's almost like you don't watch the games or even know how to Google their stats or contracts.

[Junkyard Dog]

2 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

You sir are delusional. 

 

Joshua is on pace for 22 goals and 40 points.... he is only making $825,000!!!!!!

 

Lafferty is on pace for 18 goals and 36 points... he is only making $1,150,000!!!!!

 

Blueger is killing penalties, winning faceoffs and is at a .61 point per game pace (50 points over 82 pace)... he is only making $1,900,000!!!!!

 

Juulsen has been playing like a solid #6, killing penalties like a champ but only making $775,000, that is less than 98% of the league, less than an entry level contract. Definitely a bargain.

 

Desmith has the same save percentage and .1 lower GAA as demko who is the odds on favorite to win the vezina. Yes he is a backup bit os an elite backup. Some teams spend 3.5 ish million on a backup who isn't nearly as good. $2,200,000 is a bargain.

 

It's disgusting that I actually had to break that all down for you. It's almost like you don't watch the games or even know how to Google their stats or contracts.

 

Gonna definitely be hard to try and re-sign them all this off-season since they are all due for raises.

 

On top of already having Petey, Hronek and Zadorov needing contracts. 

[Coryberg]

11 minutes ago, Junkyard Dog said:

 

Gonna definitely be hard to try and re-sign them all this off-season since they are all due for raises.

 

On top of already having Petey, Hronek and Zadorov needing contracts. 

Yeah I don't think we will be able to bring Zadorov back. From all reports he is looking for a raise and term (so 4+mil over 4+ years). 

[wai_lai416]

10 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

You sir are delusional. 

 

Joshua is on pace for 22 goals and 40 points.... he is only making $825,000!!!!!!

 

Lafferty is on pace for 18 goals and 36 points... he is only making $1,150,000!!!!!

 

Blueger is killing penalties, winning faceoffs and is at a .61 point per game pace (50 points over 82 pace)... he is only making $1,900,000!!!!!

 

Juulsen has been playing like a solid #6, killing penalties like a champ but only making $775,000, that is less than 98% of the league, less than an entry level contract. Definitely a bargain.

 

Desmith has the same save percentage and .1 lower GAA as demko who is the odds on favorite to win the vezina. Yes he is a backup bit os an elite backup. Some teams spend 3.5 ish million on a backup who isn't nearly as good. $2,200,000 is a bargain.

 

It's disgusting that I actually had to break that all down for you. It's almost like you don't watch the games or even know how to Google their stats or contracts.

what have lafferty done when he's not on EP's line? not much 

 

majority of those points came during a short hot streak for each player.. if they keep it up for the entire season ya they are a bargain.. until then it's just a blip on the map. 

 

bleuger 13 of his points came in the last 12 games (hot streak) prior to that he's on pace for 20 points

 

lafferty when he's not on EP line have like 7 points.. you see him back on ep's line anytime soon? 

 

juulsen playing solid as a #6 defenceman.. he's being paid like a #6 defenceman is he playing above what a #6 defenceman is playing? who cares if he's paid less than 98% of the league.. he's paid exactly the same as almost 100% of the #6 defenceman in the league.

 

first off demko is not even close to the odds on favorite for the vezina hallebuyck is.. demko in his last 1.5months have a gaa of 2.8 and sv% of .905. you want a goalie bargain? talbot is making 1mil ingram is making 1.9mil joey daccord is making 1.2mil montembault 1mil lindgren 1.2mil you can easily find value in a cheap backup goalie or in some instant starting goalie

 

those players are good value for what they are paid.. but can they keep it up for the entire season? if they can then sure they are a bargain but if it's only a short anomly and fall back to normal then it's just a good value 

[Coryberg]

32 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

what have lafferty done when he's not on EP's line? not much 

 

majority of those points came during a short hot streak for each player.. if they keep it up for the entire season ya they are a bargain.. until then it's just a blip on the map. 

 

bleuger 13 of his points came in the last 12 games (hot streak) prior to that he's on pace for 20 points

 

lafferty when he's not on EP line have like 7 points.. you see him back on ep's line anytime soon? 

 

Your argument for points totals over 42 games is that they had hot streaks?

 

33 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

 

juulsen playing solid as a #6 defenceman.. he's being paid like a #6 defenceman is he playing above what a #6 defenceman is playing? who cares if he's paid less than 98% of the league.. he's paid exactly the same as almost 100% of the #6 defenceman in the league.

 

I'm not going to bother doing the work for you (you already trolled me into wasting my time pointing out the painfully obvious) but I guarantee if you look at the #6 dman on the other 31 teams at least 20 of them are above $775,000.

 

Prove me wrong!

33 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said:

First off demko is not even close to the odds on favorite for the vezina hallebuyck is.. demko in his last 1.5months have a gaa of 2.8 and sv% of .905. you want a goalie bargain? talbot is making 1mil ingram is making 1.9mil joey daccord is making 1.2mil montembault 1mil lindgren 1.2mil you can easily find value in a cheap

Google is your friend...

[LillStrimma]

1 hour ago, Coryberg said:

You sir are delusional. 

 

Joshua is on pace for 22 goals and 40 points.... he is only making $825,000!!!!!!

 

Lafferty is on pace for 18 goals and 36 points... he is only making $1,150,000!!!!!

 

Blueger is killing penalties, winning faceoffs and is at a .61 point per game pace (50 points over 82 pace)... he is only making $1,900,000!!!!!

 

Juulsen has been playing like a solid #6, killing penalties like a champ but only making $775,000, that is less than 98% of the league, less than an entry level contract. Definitely a bargain.

 

Desmith has the same save percentage and .1 lower GAA as demko who is the odds on favorite to win the vezina. Yes he is a backup bit os an elite backup. Some teams spend 3.5 ish million on a backup who isn't nearly as good. $2,200,000 is a bargain.

 

It's disgusting that I actually had to break that all down for you. It's almost like you don't watch the games or even know how to Google their stats or contracts.

In a great team a lot of players make career years. So what? 
The bottom 6 is always cheap unless your name is Benning.

[Lemon Face]

47 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

Yeah I don't think we will be able to bring Zadorov back. From all reports he is looking for a raise and term (so 4+mil over 4+ years). 

You have Meyers and Cole out.Time for young smart and strong

[Coryberg]

1 hour ago, Lemon Face said:

You have Meyers and Cole out.Time for young smart and strong

Zadorov isn't young (going to be 29 in a few months) and his decision making isn't always the best. He is strong I will give you that one.

[N4ZZY]

11 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Bottom/middle 6 bargains...

 

Hoglander 

Suter

Joshua 

Blueger

Lafferty 

Juulsen 

Desmith

 

If we could extend them at their cap hits I would sign all of them to 3 years in a heartbeat

same!

 

DeSmith is having a career year with us. I looked at some of the stats from his previous teams, and he hasn't nearly had a resurgence as he's had with us. If he wants to continue to win, resigning with us is a no-brainer. I think Blueger comes back, he's also having a career year with us, as well as Joshua. I wonder if that says more about Tocchet's system, and how they fit, than each individual's talent and play. 

 

[N4ZZY]

1 minute ago, Coryberg said:

Zadorov isn't young (going to be 29 in a few months) and his decision making isn't always the best. He is strong I will give you that one.

Well, that's true. He doesn't deserve 6M that's for sure. But from the games he's played with the Canucks, do you think he can handle a top four role? Second pairing defenseman? If yes, then he's probably deserving at least 4-4.5M for over 4-5 years. That'll bring him to 32/33 years old. 

 

[GrammaInTheTub]

I’d be happy with a 4x4

[canucks curse]

Zads with lowest TOI tonight among nucks D men…

[Coryberg]

12 minutes ago, N4ZZY said:

Well, that's true. He doesn't deserve 6M that's for sure. But from the games he's played with the Canucks, do you think he can handle a top four role? Second pairing defenseman? If yes, then he's probably deserving at least 4-4.5M for over 4-5 years. That'll bring him to 32/33 years old. 

 

He performs best when he is around 18 minutes, that puts him as a #4-5 dman. He is either punching above his weight on a 2nd pairing or a very good 3rd pairing dman. In either case I don't think you should be paying that roster spot more than 4 million and definitely shouldn't have to commit long term.

 

We just signed a superior dman in Cole to a 1 year deal for much less. The market is full of #4-6 LHD defensive defenceman every year. We paid a small price for his services and are going to get a good run out of him. If he lowers his ask and wants to stay so be it but we are in no shape or form over a barrel with him. If he walks we can replace him with his cap space.

[wai_lai416]

1 hour ago, Coryberg said:

 

Your argument for points totals over 42 games is that they had hot streaks?

 

 

I'm not going to bother doing the work for you (you already trolled me into wasting my time pointing out the painfully obvious) but I guarantee if you look at the #6 dman on the other 31 teams at least 20 of them are above $775,000.

 

Prove me wrong!

Google is your friend...

because a sport betting site say they are the odds on favorite therefore they are the odds on favorite?? hellebuyck have way better stats across the board with same amount of wins. if demko haven't been average the last almost 2 months now i would agree with you. demko's stats isn't even close to say stuart skinner in the same span since oiler fired their coach.. demko is not even top 10 in any goalie stats outside of wins right now.. hellebuyck right now is almost 3x demko in goal saved above average and almost superior in every single advance stats.. demko first 1.5 month is the best goalie in the league.. the next 1.5 so far is league average.. hellebuyck have been at or near the top the entire season so far, and his team is tops in the nhl lol.. if vezina voting was today.. hellebuyck prolly gets 99 out of 100 1st place vote

 

i dont even have to look and i can guarantee you 20 out of 32 teams in the league their 6th and some even 5th highest paid defenceman is in the 775k-800k range.. if your argument is 775k is a bargain compared to 800k ok you win lmao.

[PhillipBlunt]

2 hours ago, Coryberg said:

Yeah I don't think we will be able to bring Zadorov back. From all reports he is looking for a raise and term (so 4+mil over 4+ years). 

They’ll bring him back. Every team that wants success in the playoffs looks for a player like this. Huge, hits like a truck, makes solid break out passes, skates very well for a player of his size. 
 

4 years at $4M will be enough to sign him. 
 

Excerpt from Iain MacIntyre’s article this evening:

 

We're building consistency; this is all about that,” defenceman Nikita Zadorov explained. “I think every guy shows up every night to play their best hockey. If we're going to do it the rest of the year and in playoffs, we're going to be beating a lot of teams. That's definitely a success for all 23 guys in here. We're all working our asses off, playing for each other. That's the main thing.”

 

“It's great when you have a mentality you can beat any team, you can win any game in any situation,” Zadorov said. “I think that's where we're going. But definitely, there's a difference between being confident and being overconfident, so we're going to find that fine line. There's a new day every day in our lives to get better — to get better as a group, to get better as individuals. I think that's our mindset, for sure.”

 

[N4ZZY]

48 minutes ago, Coryberg said:

He performs best when he is around 18 minutes, that puts him as a #4-5 dman. He is either punching above his weight on a 2nd pairing or a very good 3rd pairing dman. In either case I don't think you should be paying that roster spot more than 4 million and definitely shouldn't have to commit long term.

 

We just signed a superior dman in Cole to a 1 year deal for much less. The market is full of #4-6 LHD defensive defenceman every year. We paid a small price for his services and are going to get a good run out of him. If he lowers his ask and wants to stay so be it but we are in no shape or form over a barrel with him. If he walks we can replace him with his cap space.

Yea, that's true. I just wonder if we can find anyone with his size, mobility and ability to score goals (didn't he score 14 with Calgary?). Cole is also older too. I think Zadorov could probably push 19 minutes per game, no? 

 

I mean, he's making 3.5M right now, would he take 3.75M for longer term? If he wanted both term and money, I'm not sure if he would get that here, but I'm not certain any other team would give him that either. Though, with that being said, there's a lot of bad GM's out there. 

[N4ZZY]

1 hour ago, canucks curse said:

Zads with lowest TOI tonight among nucks D men…

Not sure he'll get what he's looking for. But if he's good with 4M over 4, I'd even go 5 years for him, then I'll sign him up right away. 

 

[Coryberg]

1 hour ago, wai_lai416 said:

because a sport betting site say they are the odds on favorite therefore they are the odds on favorite?? hellebuyck have way better stats across the board with same amount of wins. if demko haven't been average the last almost 2 months now i would agree with you. demko's stats isn't even close to say stuart skinner in the same span since oiler fired their coach.. demko is not even top 10 in any goalie stats outside of wins right now.. hellebuyck right now is almost 3x demko in goal saved above average and almost superior in every single advance stats.. demko first 1.5 month is the best goalie in the league.. the next 1.5 so far is league average.. hellebuyck have been at or near the top the entire season so far, and his team is tops in the nhl lol.. if vezina voting was today.. hellebuyck prolly gets 99 out of 100 1st place vote

 

i dont even have to look and i can guarantee you 20 out of 32 teams in the league their 6th and some even 5th highest paid defenceman is in the 775k-800k range.. if your argument is 775k is a bargain compared to 800k ok you win lmao.

Lol I showed the very first 3 sites I typed in Google for vezina favorites. Its not just a betting site its every betting site. I would say they know a hell of a lot more than you on the subject.

 

There is no way I'm taking your troll bait to go through the entire league to show you how wrong you are. I've already proved you wrong about a dozen times in the past few hours and you just keep coming forward like a zombie. Show me some numbers or go back under your bridge.

[Randy Marsh]

[N4ZZY]

13 minutes ago, Randy Marsh said:

[Elias Pettersson]

4 hours ago, Coryberg said:

You sir are delusional. 

 

Joshua is on pace for 22 goals and 40 points.... he is only making $825,000!!!!!!

 

Lafferty is on pace for 18 goals and 36 points... he is only making $1,150,000!!!!!

 

Blueger is killing penalties, winning faceoffs and is at a .61 point per game pace (50 points over 82 pace)... he is only making $1,900,000!!!!!

 

Juulsen has been playing like a solid #6, killing penalties like a champ but only making $775,000, that is less than 98% of the league, less than an entry level contract. Definitely a bargain.

 

Desmith has the same save percentage and .1 lower GAA as demko who is the odds on favorite to win the vezina. Yes he is a backup bit os an elite backup. Some teams spend 3.5 ish million on a backup who isn't nearly as good. $2,200,000 is a bargain.

 

It's disgusting that I actually had to break that all down for you. It's almost like you don't watch the games or even know how to Google their stats or contracts.

DeSmith has only played 13 games. He’s a top backup in the league, but definitely not a 1A. At $1.8 million he’s not a huge bargain. A real solid deal though. 
 

Lafferty has 3 points in his last 14 games. Most of his points have come from playing with Petey. I doubt he gets more than 22-23 points this year. He’s a slight bargain similar to DeSmith. 
 

Juulsen is a 6/7 Dman. Lots of those guys getting paid in the $1 million range. He’s a slight bargain as well. 
 

Blueger is on a hot streak. If he continues to light it up then he’s definitely a good bargain. Playing like a $3 million player. 
 

Joshua is the biggest bargain on the team right now. He’s definitely playing like a $3 million player. 
 

You forgot about Höglander. He hasn’t spent any time with Petey. Mostly 4th line duties and he’s on pace for 24 goals. 2nd best bargain on the team after Joshua. 

[Elias Pettersson]

2 hours ago, Coryberg said:

He performs best when he is around 18 minutes, that puts him as a #4-5 dman. He is either punching above his weight on a 2nd pairing or a very good 3rd pairing dman. In either case I don't think you should be paying that roster spot more than 4 million and definitely shouldn't have to commit long term.

 

We just signed a superior dman in Cole to a 1 year deal for much less. The market is full of #4-6 LHD defensive defenceman every year. We paid a small price for his services and are going to get a good run out of him. If he lowers his ask and wants to stay so be it but we are in no shape or form over a barrel with him. If he walks we can replace him with his cap space.

Cole isn’t superior to Zadorov. Cole was the odd man out last game. He’s almost 35. He will be load managed the rest of the year. 
 

Tocchet specifically targeted Zadorov. He’s his guy. He’s definitely coming back. Probably the same contract as Oleksiak. 4.5x5.