Alflives Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, Provost said: No… probably $12 million x3-4 years The point though is signing the same deal now Vs. In the offseason will change the team’s fortunes going forward. There will be opportunity costs in terms of possible trades we can’t complete between now and the deadline because we don’t have cost certainty. There will be issues extending other players because we don’t have cost certainty. We will likely lose some of our depth players as we won’t be able to sign them as we will be waiting to see Peterson’s cap number as late as August when an arb award would be decided. Under 10 cap allocation if the term is 3 years. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 14 minutes ago, Provost said: Club elected arbitration doesn’t stop him from accepting offer sheets. They take him to arbitration and he has a solid window to go shopping for offer sheets. No one is making a one year offer sheet to Petterson. Give up four 1st round picks just for one season and walking him to free agency? he does not have a solid window he can’t negotiate till July 1st and he has till July 5th to sign hardly a solid window I already showed scenario where team offers 1 year offer sheet. 1 year 8.5 mil where the Canucks get 1st 2nd and 3rd. Match they screwed don’t match they screwed. Just offer him 1 year and then sign him to the 13+ or whatever they willing to pay. Canucks either get underwhelming return or can’t trade him if matched and watch him go to that team in the ufa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrammaInTheTub Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 9 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: he does not have a solid window he can’t negotiate till July 1st and he has till July 5th to sign hardly a solid window I already showed scenario where team offers 1 year offer sheet. 1 year 8.5 mil where the Canucks get 1st 2nd and 3rd. Match they screwed don’t match they screwed. Just offer him 1 year and then sign him to the 13+ or whatever they willing to pay. Canucks either get underwhelming return or can’t trade him if matched and watch him go to that team in the ufa Why would Petey sign an offer sheet for less than we’re willing to give him? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: he does not have a solid window he can’t negotiate till July 1st and he has till July 5th to sign hardly a solid window I already showed scenario where team offers 1 year offer sheet. 1 year 8.5 mil where the Canucks get 1st 2nd and 3rd. Match they screwed don’t match they screwed. Just offer him 1 year and then sign him to the 13+ or whatever they willing to pay. Canucks either get underwhelming return or can’t trade him if matched and watch him go to that team in the ufa No, he can start negotiating in June, just can’t put pen to paper until July 1st. https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-faq No team is signing him to a 1 year offer sheet and risk losing him in free agency a year later. They aren’t allowed to just give him $13 million after he signs an $8.5 million offer sheet. They can’t even extend him until January the following year. He is also not signing an offer sheet for $8.5 million. What possible motivation could he have to do that? He can just take the team to arbitration, get $11-12 million, and walk to free agency the following summer and let the bidding begin. He would get $13+ on the open market in a year with even a higher cap ceiling. Any offer sheet that he would sign would be in the 4 1st round picks tier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 Just now, GrammaInTheTub said: Why would Petey sign an offer sheet for less than we’re willing to give him? Because say if a team is willing to give him 13mil x8 a year later vs if we are only offering him 11x8 then it’s gonna be like 88vs 104 mil add the 8.5 for 1 year it’s 112.5mil vs 88 less 1 year but is he gonna get 24 mil in 1 year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrammaInTheTub Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, wai_lai416 said: Because say if a team is willing to give him 13mil x8 a year later vs if we are only offering him 11x8 then it’s gonna be like 88vs 104 mil add the 8.5 for 1 year it’s 112.5mil vs 88 less 1 year but is he gonna get 24 mil in 1 year? That’s tampering baaaby! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 28 minutes ago, Alflives said: Under 10 cap allocation if the term is 3 years. agreed I'm only paying 12-12.5 if its an 8 year deal. 11+ if its 4-6 10 if its 3 years 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Provost said: No, he can start negotiating in June, just can’t put pen to paper until July 1st. https://www.capfriendly.com/offer-sheet-faq No team is signing him to a 1 year offer sheet and risk losing him in free agency a year later. They aren’t allowed to just give him $13 million after he signs an $8.5 million offer sheet. They can’t even extend him until January the following year. He is also not signing an offer sheet for $8.5 million. What possible motivation could he have to do that? He can just take the team to arbitration, get $11-12 million, and walk to free agency the following summer and let the bidding begin. He would get $13+ on the open market in a year with even a higher cap ceiling. Any offer sheet that he would sign would be in the 4 1st round picks tier. Like I said if a team is willing to offer him 13+ mil vs 11-11.5 which is very possible with JR he has all the reason to take 1 year at 8.5 1 year at 8.5 and then 8 years at 13 112.5 mil vs 88-92 for 8 years and then he would need to sign a contract for 20 million for 1 year just to reach 112mil not sure how rfa works he’s under contract till July 1st so that should fall under tempering Edited January 14 by wai_lai416 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 3 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Because say if a team is willing to give him 13mil x8 a year later vs if we are only offering him 11x8 then it’s gonna be like 88vs 104 mil add the 8.5 for 1 year it’s 112.5mil vs 88 less 1 year but is he gonna get 24 mil in 1 year? He can do that anyways plus get more in the 1st year via arbitration. Take the arb award at $3-4 million above your hypothetical $8.5 million offer sheet. Then be a free agent and sign whatever deal he wants the following summer. All your scenario does is reduce his earnings just to mess with the Canucks. He can also become a UFA 5 months after his first chance to extend with whatever team gave the offer sheet and have the entire league as suitors instead of one team. Edited January 14 by Provost Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Provost said: He can do that anyways plus get more in the 1st year via arbitration. He can also become a UFA 5 months after his first chance to extend with whatever team gave the offer sheet and have the entire league as suitors instead of one team. Sure but that gives Vancouver the option to trade him maybe he doesn’t want Vancouver to dump him to say Arizona or San Jose? Offer sheet eliminates the possibility of getting traded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 4 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Like I said if a team is willing to offer him 13+ mil vs 11-11.5 which is very possible with JR he has all the reason to take 1 year at 8.5 1 year at 8.5 and then 8 years at 13 112.5 mil vs 88-92 for 8 years and then he would need to sign a contract for 20 million for 1 year just to reach 112mil not sure how rfa works he’s under contract till July 1st so that should fall under tempering Then he just takes the Canucks to Arbitration, gets a 12 mil 1 year contract, and goes to the open market the next summer for that 13+ mil deal. No reason to accept 8.5 x 1 in an offer sheet when he can easily get a 12 x 1 awarded to him at an arbitration hearing. Edit: to respond to the trade you brought up. He gets to choose his team in 2025 in this senario, it's not like he's trapped if he gets traded? And any 1 year deal he signs on an offersheet would be tradable too Edited January 14 by MattJVD 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 8 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said: Why would Petey sign an offer sheet for less than we’re willing to give him? in a lot of places 10m cap hit would be equivalent to 12m in Van. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrammaInTheTub Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, Hammertime said: in a lot of places 10m cap hit would be equivalent to 12m in Van. For sure, but I think that just works to guarantee we match any offersheet that is equal or less what we’re already willing to pay. This would be a worst case scenario for sure and I hope we lock him up sooner rather than later. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 minute ago, MattJVD said: Then he just takes the Canucks to Arbitration, gets a 12 mil 1 year contract, and goes to the open market the next summer for that 13+ mil deal. No reason to accept 8.5 x 1 in an offer sheet when he can easily get a 12 x 1 awarded to him at an arbitration hearing. Again arbitration gives the team the option to dump him to the highest bidder and possible to a place he has no interest in playing. If Canucks know ep ain’t signing long term they are 100% going to move him for the biggest return Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, Hammertime said: in a lot of places 10m cap hit would be equivalent to 12m in Van. Player salaries are earned where the game is played, so differing tax rates only affect the home games (half the player salary). It's still a sizable difference, but Vancouver vs Florida is more like 11 mil in Van = 10 in Fla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattJVD Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Again arbitration gives the team the option to dump him to the highest bidder and possible to a place he has no interest in playing. If Canucks know ep ain’t signing long term they are 100% going to move him for the biggest return It's a 1 year deal though, he doesn't have kids. If this is a senario where he is putting money over location (given the fact he is leaving a 1st place club full of his friends for a 10 or 12% raise) then why would he not continue putting money over location and take the arbitration award? 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) 8 minutes ago, wai_lai416 said: Again arbitration gives the team the option to dump him to the highest bidder and possible to a place he has no interest in playing. If Canucks know ep ain’t signing long term they are 100% going to move him for the biggest return You just keep changing your arguments when the previous one gets shown to be wrong or misguided. Your “new” argument is that he will sign for millions less just for protection that he won’t get traded for a season… even though the Canucks could trade him before he is ever eligible to sign an offer sheet if they want and can’t get a long term deal done. The “risk” to him that the team will suddenly decide to trade him though right after the arbitration, even though they could beforehand anyways is worth a few million to him? Any team that would trade for a single year or half year of a pending UFA would be a contender. The Canucks if they are in a playoff race aren’t trading him away mid year next season… just like they aren’t trading him now. They keep him for the rest payoff run and hope that he signs an extension before becoming a UFA, or trade his rights after the season. Edited January 14 by Provost 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tusk Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 (edited) Ok everyone here is a new argument. We have 4 out of 5 All Star players this year who are on underpaid contracts. 4 of them were drafted as Canucks and have been loyal to the Canucks their whole career. Sure Petterson's contract is the first to expire. But Brock is soon after, the Demko, then Hughes at the height of our cap crunch with OEL. If they all take "Market" contracts, half of them are gone. Edited January 14 by Tusk duh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Provost Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 35 minutes ago, Tusk said: Ok everyone here is a new argument. We have 4 out of 5 All Star players this year who are on underpaid contracts. 4 of them were drafted as Canucks and have been loyal to the Canucks their whole career. Sure Petterson's contract is the first to expire. But Brock is soon after, the Demko, then Hughes at the height of our cap crunch with OEL. If they all take "Market" contracts, half of them are gone. Yep… although “loyal” is a little strong since they were all club controlled, two of them held out of training camp for better deals, and one of them asked for a trade. None of them signed max term deals, but chose shorter deals to get the most AAV without bargaining away their UFA years. They have been great players for the most part and have been good deals for the team as RFAs with less leverage. It is also why the Petterson contract is so important. He is the 3rd best player on the team right now, though probably swaps places with Miller within a couple years as he hits his prime and Miller starts leaving it. This deal is the internal cap structure deal that will inform the rest of them. Matching a Nylander deal for $11.5 on max term is solid market value… less than he would get as a UFA, but he also gets to play on a (suddenly) good team. Getting $13 million probably means playing on a middle of the pack or worse roster, not a lot of contenders have the cap space to just add him. It isn’t just the all stars. They are in the privileged position of showing a little loyalty with career earnings of around $100 million or more. The bottom six that have all been outperforming their contracts have been fringe guys who a absolutely need to leverage this good years into what will likely be the biggest contract of their careers. Lafferty, Joshua, and Blueger could all double their current salaries on the open market. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wai_lai416 Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 51 minutes ago, Provost said: You just keep changing your arguments when the previous one gets shown to be wrong or misguided. Your “new” argument is that he will sign for millions less just for protection that he won’t get traded for a season… even though the Canucks could trade him before he is ever eligible to sign an offer sheet if they want and can’t get a long term deal done. The “risk” to him that the team will suddenly decide to trade him though right after the arbitration, even though they could beforehand anyways is worth a few million to him? Any team that would trade for a single year or half year of a pending UFA would be a contender. The Canucks if they are in a playoff race aren’t trading him away mid year next season… just like they aren’t trading him now. They keep him for the rest payoff run and hope that he signs an extension before becoming a UFA, or trade his rights after the season. new arguement? lol you really think this team can afford to let EP walk into next season as a pending UFA and keep him at the TDL if he's not re-signed by then even if they are in a playoff position?? this team does not have the prospect or players to recover if EP walks after next season and they get nothing back.. sure the canucks can trade him right before he can sign an offer sheet.. so who's going to trade for a guy that haven't signed a contract and could be subjected to an offer sheet? like whats team offering?? a 1st +++++ and then watch him sign a offer sheet and then lose him after the year? there's literally 0 risk of vancouver trading him before he's eligible for offer sheet.. coz no one is retarded to trade for the rights of a player that they don't even know if they can re-sign other than the 1 year either qualifying offer arbitration or offer sheet. i'd love to see a GM trade for EP before he's eligible.. let see whos retarded out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Hammertime said: in a lot of places 10m cap hit would be equivalent to 12m in Van. Step 1: Allvin takes GM of Florida (Zito) to dinner and buys him a nice meal in exchange to have Florida offer sheet Petey at 10.5 x8 selling the fact Florida is a low tax state. Step 2: Petey can't resist the great offer to live in a sunny state all year round with minimal taxes. Signs the offer sheet. Step 3: Vancouver matches. Petey now locked in at 10.5 x 8 with Vancouver. High taxes, bad drivers, Surrey and all bahahaha 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 1 hour ago, Tusk said: Ok everyone here is a new argument. We have 4 out of 5 All Star players this year who are on underpaid contracts. 4 of them were drafted as Canucks and have been loyal to the Canucks their whole career. Sure Petterson's contract is the first to expire. But Brock is soon after, the Demko, then Hughes at the height of our cap crunch with OEL. If they all take "Market" contracts, half of them are gone. I think Brock would always be the odd man out of those 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijjibo Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Step 1: Allvin takes GM of Florida (Zito) to dinner and buys him a nice meal in exchange to have Florida offer sheet Petey at 10.5 x8 selling the fact Florida is a low tax state. Step 2: Petey can't resist the great offer to live in a sunny state all year round with minimal taxes. Signs the offer sheet. Step 3: Vancouver matches. Petey now locked in at 10.5 x 8 with Vancouver. High taxes, bad drivers, Surrey and all bahahaha Can you say collusion? Can you say massive penalties from the league? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hammertime Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 2 minutes ago, HKSR said: Step 1: Allvin takes GM of Florida (Zito) to dinner and buys him a nice meal in exchange to have Florida offer sheet Petey at 10.5 x8 selling the fact Florida is a low tax state. Step 2: Petey can't resist the great offer to live in a sunny state all year round with minimal taxes. Signs the offer sheet. Step 3: Vancouver matches. Petey now locked in at 10.5 x 8 with Vancouver. High taxes, bad drivers, Surrey and all bahahaha 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van_can_fan Posted January 14 Share Posted January 14 5 hours ago, Hammertime said: I really don't see why there's such a hold up. If he's been offered 11+ already what is he waiting for? Makes me lose a lil respect for him. He's handcuffing what MGMT can do at the DL by not signing. Yeah, as much as I try not to, I feel the same If Petey's so obsessed with winning, I'd like to see him put the team first instead of himself. He's getting paid either way. All this does is make me wonder if deep down he has a desire to play somewhere else. This is where'd I'd love to see a little of the Sedin influence rub off--just committ and say, 'this is my team. I want to win here" --but not seeing it so far 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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