[Report/Rumour] Elias Pettersson Contract Talks

[Tusk]

16 minutes ago, HKSR said:

I think Brock would always be the odd man out of those 5.

I think Brock will have the most value per cap hit out of those 5, except maybe Demko if Silvos isnt ready. If Petterson gets a huge blockbuster price, I think we trade him in the next 2-3 years so we can keep everyone else, including Hughes.

[Provost]

4 minutes ago, van_can_fan said:

Yeah, as much as I try not to, I feel the same

 

If Petey's so obsessed with winning, I'd like to see him put the team first instead of himself. He's getting paid either way. 

All this does is make me wonder if deep down he has a desire to play somewhere else.

 

This is where'd I'd love to see a little of the Sedin influence rub off--just committ and say, 'this is my team. I want to win here" --but not seeing it so far 

It is hard not to come to that conclusion, or at least think it is a significant risk.  It can change with a single phone call, but it is evident that the team wants to sign him but he just doesn’t want to.   Neither side is even messaging that there have been lots of positive discussions or negotiations.  Both sides are basically saying it is up to the player right now to decide and his agent is saying he is in no rush.

 

I can see being suspicious after the last regime bungled pretty much every move they made.  Why tie yourself to a perennial bottom feeder?

 

This half season may be an illusion and the team goes back into the crapped next year when all the pieces can’t be re-signed… but that risk is with every team and he actually has a way to impact how that plays out here.  Signing a Nylander deal gives the team a little breathing room to offer an extra half million to guys like Blueger, Joshua, and Lafferty.  Holding out for $13 million means they move on and get replaced by random fringe NHLers.

 

 

[Coryberg]

22 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I think Brock will have the most value per cap hit out of those 5, except maybe Demko if Silvos isnt ready. If Petterson gets a huge blockbuster price, I think we trade him in the next 2-3 years so we can keep everyone else, including Hughes.

I can't see a world where petey doesn't get a full NMC in his next deal. 

[HKSR]

1 hour ago, qwijjibo said:

Can you say collusion? Can you say massive penalties from the league? 

Can you say "Joke"?  lol

[HKSR]

53 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I think Brock will have the most value per cap hit out of those 5, except maybe Demko if Silvos isnt ready. If Petterson gets a huge blockbuster price, I think we trade him in the next 2-3 years so we can keep everyone else, including Hughes.

In the future?  Who knows... right now JTM, Hughes, and Demko will be the major value contracts.  Petey's value will disappear once he signs his new deal.  

[qwijjibo]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

Can you say "Joke"?  lol

You never know on this board.  There always seems to be a certain element that's looking g for creative ways to circumvent the cap.  You'd think Vancouver fans would be more leery about that sort of thing 

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, qwijjibo said:

You never know on this board.  There always seems to be a certain element that's looking g for creative ways to circumvent the cap.  You'd think Vancouver fans would be more leery about that sort of thing 

Figured my last "word" being "bahahahah" was a giveaway haha.  Anyways, back to the topic... 

[Tusk]

53 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

You never know on this board.  There always seems to be a certain element that's looking g for creative ways to circumvent the cap.  You'd think Vancouver fans would be more leery about that sort of thing 

I am not leery about such things. I just want to keep Petey. Anything that makes that affordable for the rest of the core, I am good

[qwijjibo]

22 minutes ago, Tusk said:

I am not leery about such things. I just want to keep Petey. Anything that makes that affordable for the rest of the core, I am good

So you'd be fine with a backroom deal like was joked about earlier that resulted in a lower cap hit for Pettersson no matter the consequences.  What if the penalty was the equivalent of matching the offer sheet (like 4 1sts) plus the Pettersson contract being voided?  You'd be ok with that? Because that's the sort of penalty I could see being levied.  Ottawa lost a 1st over not properly disclosing a No Trade list. 

[Bob Long]

2 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

So you'd be fine with a backroom deal like was joked about earlier that resulted in a lower cap hit for Pettersson no matter the consequences.  What if the penalty was the equivalent of matching the offer sheet (like 4 1sts) plus the Pettersson contract being voided?  You'd be ok with that? Because that's the sort of penalty I could see being levied.  Ottawa lost a 1st over not properly disclosing a No Trade list. 

 

It's a bit naive to think that GM's haven't done handshake deals at some point.

[Tusk]

2 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's a bit naive to think that GM's haven't done handshake deals at some point.

Anybody ever wonder what "future considerations" mean? Well there you have it.

[qwijjibo]

32 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's a bit naive to think that GM's haven't done handshake deals at some point.

There's a difference between a handshake deal and 2 gms colluding to manipulate a players contract and in effect circumvent the spirit of the cba. A handshake deal would involve compensation (and future considerations) with regards to a trade. Not tricking a player into accepting a lower contract that they might not otherwise accept 

[Alflives]

36 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

It's a bit naive to think that GM's haven't done handshake deals at some point.

Habs very much helped out the Canes with their foolish offer sheet for Aho. Then the Loserdoodles doubled down and let the Canes steal Kotkaniemi. 

[Coryberg]

44 minutes ago, qwijjibo said:

There's a difference between a handshake deal and 2 gms colluding to manipulate a players contract and in effect circumvent the spirit of the cba. A handshake deal would involve compensation (and future considerations) with regards to a trade. Not tricking a player into accepting a lower contract that they might not otherwise accept 

I can assure you that JP Barry would be well aware that if he signed an offer sheet with Florida that vancouver would be able to match. The whole basis of this bait and switch scheme is elementary at best. 

[LillStrimma]

5 hours ago, Tusk said:

I think Brock will have the most value per cap hit out of those 5, except maybe Demko if Silvos isnt ready. If Petterson gets a huge blockbuster price, I think we trade him in the next 2-3 years so we can keep everyone else, including Hughes.

So, after 2-3 years you want to drop Petey and after 4 Hughes goes… You really want to tank by the look of it.

We have two true stars of the team and both will get paid.

If you think Hughes will leave money on the table it will only be for playing with his bros, not staying here.

Pay both and hope they want to stay for the chance of winning cups and smashing records together.

[Coconuts]

16 hours ago, LillStrimma said:

So, after 2-3 years you want to drop Petey and after 4 Hughes goes… You really want to tank by the look of it.

We have two true stars of the team and both will get paid.

If you think Hughes will leave money on the table it will only be for playing with his bros, not staying here.

Pay both and hope they want to stay for the chance of winning cups and smashing records together.

 

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but when it's come to Pettersson this past offseason, and this season, it's appears that some folks love having stars but hate the prospect of paying them market value or more. This whole let's trade Pettersson if he isn't willing to put the team first and take a discount thing is silly, we finally have an elite top 10 NHL forward that we drafted ourselves and folks are fussing about paying him. Folks should be thanking their lucky stars after being capped out and mediocre most of the past decade. 

 

Seems to me that Pettersson will likely get market value for whatever term he ends up committing to. 

 

Every contract isn't going to offer surplus value, sometimes a contract is simply the going rate. But it's better to pay your top players the going rate than to overpay support players at the end of the day. Most superstars and stars don't take discounts, we should be thankful we have a few. 

 

Hughes will likely hit a grand slam on his next deal the same way Pettersson likely does this go round. 

Edited January 15 by Coconuts

[Bure_Pavel]

32 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but when it's come to Pettersson this past offseason, and this season, it's appears that some folks love having stars but hate the prospect of paying them market value or more. This whole let's trade Pettersson if he isn't willing to put the team first and take a discount thing is silly, we finally have an elite top 10 NHL forward that we drafted ourselves and folks are fussing about paying him. Folks should be thanking their lucky stars after being capped out and mediocre most of the past decade. 

 

Seems to me that Pettersson will likely get market value for whatever term he ends up committing to. 

 

Every contract isn't going to offer surplus value, sometimes a contract is simply the going rate. But it's better to pay your top players the going rate than to overpay support players at the end of the day. Most superstars and stars don't take discounts, we should be thankful we have a few. 

 

Hughes will likely hit a grand slam on his next deal the same way Pettersson likely does this go round. 

It starts at the top or else every player on team will look for a grand slam when their name is called. Im fine giving him a big number (11-12) if it is for 8 years, if he signs for 4 years we have to move on from him after a year or two. 

[Coconuts]

5 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

It starts at the top or else every player on team will look for a grand slam when their name is called. Im fine giving him a big number (11-12) if it is for 8 years, if he signs for 4 years we have to move on from him after a year or two. 

 

He's a top 10 NHL forward, I doubt any deal he signs doesn't involve a full NMC. 

 

As for starting at the top, I just don't buy it. Every fanbase across the league hopes their stars will take a good chunk less than market value and most of the time it just doesn't happen. Maybe Pettersson will surprise, I certainly don't expect it though. 

[Provost]

38 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but when it's come to Pettersson this past offseason, and this season, it's appears that some folks love having stars but hate the prospect of paying them market value or more. This whole let's trade Pettersson if he isn't willing to put the team first and take a discount thing is silly, we finally have an elite top 10 NHL forward that we drafted ourselves and folks are fussing about paying him. Folks should be thanking their lucky stars after being capped out and mediocre most of the past decade. 

 

Seems to me that Pettersson will likely get market value for whatever term he ends up committing to. 

 

Every contract isn't going to offer surplus value, sometimes a contract is simply the going rate. But it's better to pay your top players the going rate than to overpay support players at the end of the day. Most superstars and stars don't take discounts, we should be thankful we have a few. 

 

Hughes will likely hit a grand slam on his next deal the same way Pettersson likely does this go round. 

I think the mentions of $10 million deals are pretty pie in the sky, but somewhere from Nylander's deal to $12 million leaves him as one of the top five paid players in the league next year.  His performance hasn't been up to that level to date, but also some guys signed before the salary cap went up and their deals would be more now.

It is almost certain he has already been offered that number for a max term contract, and he hasn't signed on the dotted line.  If he wants that number for a short term deal, then I think it is fair to think about the team's future and look at what assets he could get in trade.  It has to be kept in mind, he is currently the 3rd best player on our team, by the end of his and Miller's contracts they would have switched... but Hughes is just one of the very best at his position vs. Petterson who is somewhere between top 5 and top 10 in centres.  Petterson is simply a notch below Matthews, McDavid, and Mackinnon... I don't think you get much argument from anyone in hockey on that.

If Petterson wants $13 million to be the 2nd highest player in the league, what is Hughes worth?

[Coconuts]

15 minutes ago, Provost said:

I think the mentions of $10 million deals are pretty pie in the sky, but somewhere from Nylander's deal to $12 million leaves him as one of the top five paid players in the league next year.  His performance hasn't been up to that level to date, but also some guys signed before the salary cap went up and their deals would be more now.

It is almost certain he has already been offered that number for a max term contract, and he hasn't signed on the dotted line.  If he wants that number for a short term deal, then I think it is fair to think about the team's future and look at what assets he could get in trade.  It has to be kept in mind, he is currently the 3rd best player on our team, by the end of his and Miller's contracts they would have switched... but Hughes is just one of the very best at his position vs. Petterson who is somewhere between top 5 and top 10 in centres.  Petterson is simply a notch below Matthews, McDavid, and Mackinnon... I don't think you get much argument from anyone in hockey on that.

If Petterson wants $13 million to be the 2nd highest player in the league, what is Hughes worth?

 

I genuinely believe Hughes will probably end up getting more than Pettersson, as a D no less. I've seen some folks argue he's generational or in the same bracket as Makar, this year he certainly looks it. Makar signed his current deal in July 2021, right before going on to blow up with 86 points in 77 games, and win a Norris, Conn Smythe, and Stanley Cup. What number would he be looking at four seasons down the road? It's gonna be a big jump from his current 9M and Hughes is his most direct comparison. 

 

The Avs benefitted from timing, and from burning Makar's ELC early. Had they not, Makar would have been able to cash in on all that hardware. 

 

Dahlin just signed an 8x11M extension last October, Hughes will get more. Factor in cap increases and I could def see Hughes commanding at least 13M, particularly if he wins some hardware between now and the end of his current deal. Makar probably gets something starting with 13M or higher. 

 

I think 12M is probably a good number to expect from Pettersson, maybe a tad more even. Maybe a little less if the term is shorter. Miller's 31 in March, even if he is better than Pettersson at the moment how long will that remain true? Miller wasn't likely to fall off immediately, but I do believe a degree of decline is inevitable whereas Pettersson is in the meat of his prime. How Miller will age is up for debate. 

 

At the day Pettersson benefits from a rising cap the way some other players, players who some may argue are better, couldn't. You've said as much, at the end of the day that is what it is, the cap reality shifts with each cap increase. 

 

Any good GM will weigh their options, absolutely, but if the Canucks believe they're primed to contend I have a hard time seeing them moving Pettersson. 

 

 

Edited January 15 by Coconuts

[Bure_Pavel]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

He's a top 10 NHL forward, I doubt any deal he signs doesn't involve a full NMC. 

 

As for starting at the top, I just don't buy it. Every fanbase across the league hopes their stars will take a good chunk less than market value and most of the time it just doesn't happen. Maybe Pettersson will surprise, I certainly don't expect it though. 

Them move him in a sign and trade if that is the case (wants 4 year deal and NMC), our goal is to win the Stanley Cup not be the next Toronto. 

[Bob Long]

3 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

I'm not pointing fingers at anyone in particular, but when it's come to Pettersson this past offseason, and this season, it's appears that some folks love having stars but hate the prospect of paying them market value or more. This whole let's trade Pettersson if he isn't willing to put the team first and take a discount thing is silly, we finally have an elite top 10 NHL forward that we drafted ourselves and folks are fussing about paying him. Folks should be thanking their lucky stars after being capped out and mediocre most of the past decade. 

 

Seems to me that Pettersson will likely get market value for whatever term he ends up committing to. 

 

Every contract isn't going to offer surplus value, sometimes a contract is simply the going rate. But it's better to pay your top players the going rate than to overpay support players at the end of the day. Most superstars and stars don't take discounts, we should be thankful we have a few. 

 

Hughes will likely hit a grand slam on his next deal the same way Pettersson likely does this go round. 

 

I think it's more as time goes on, it's potentially less likely he signs long term. In that case it might be better to look at a trade. 

[Bure_Pavel]

2 hours ago, Coconuts said:

 

I genuinely believe Hughes will probably end up getting more than Pettersson, as a D no less. I've seen some folks argue he's generational or in the same bracket as Makar, this year he certainly looks it. Makar signed his current deal in July 2021, right before going on to blow up with 86 points in 77 games, and win a Norris, Conn Smythe, and Stanley Cup. What number would he be looking at four seasons down the road? It's gonna be a big jump from his current 9M and Hughes is his most direct comparison. 

 

The Avs benefitted from timing, and from burning Makar's ELC early. Had they not, Makar would have been able to cash in on all that hardware. 

 

Dahlin just signed an 8x11M extension last October, Hughes will get more. Factor in cap increases and I could def see Hughes commanding at least 13M, particularly if he wins some hardware between now and the end of his current deal. Makar probably gets something starting with 13M or higher. 

 

I think 12M is probably a good number to expect from Pettersson, maybe a tad more even. Maybe a little less if the term is shorter. Miller's 31 in March, even if he is better than Pettersson at the moment how long will that remain true? Miller wasn't likely to fall off immediately, but I do believe a degree of decline is inevitable whereas Pettersson is in the meat of his prime. How Miller will age is up for debate. 

 

At the day Pettersson benefits from a rising cap the way some other players, players who some may argue are better, couldn't. You've said as much, at the end of the day that is what it is, the cap reality shifts with each cap increase. 

 

Any good GM will weigh their options, absolutely, but if the Canucks believe they're primed to contend I have a hard time seeing them moving Pettersson. 

 

 

Makar is signed at 9 million for three more years after this one, Dahlin got 11 because he has to play in Buffalo. 

[van_can_fan]

 

 

I, for one, absolutely want the Canucks to continue applying pressure--even ramp it up. Petey needs to be clear with Van about what's next for him.

[Hammertime]

The way I see it 

Hughes 7.85

Miller 8

Demko 5

And the best 3rd line in hockey

 

Pete actually holds the cards. Depending on his number he could actually buy a Stanley cup. 

Edited January 16 by Hammertime