Coconuts Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 5 minutes ago, IBatch said: Yes you're right it's a bit extreme. A mid level deal likely is also on the table, just not sure where they'd find the cap for only buying EPs best seasons. Nice thing is the teams playing great and so is he. Hopefully he signs with us and it's 8 years. A longer-term deal favours the Canucks imo, but I don't really see them as being in a position to quibble too much. Pettersson is their franchise #1C, if they're not willing to pay him they're certainly not going to win any trade that involves shipping him out. Miller is off to a great start during his age 30 season, but he's not a Pettersson replacement going forward. There will be decline at some point, and there are varying opinions as to what that'll look like. Simply put, I think Pettersson has the advantage during negotiations with the Canucks, if they truly have cup aspirations sooner than later they aren't doing it without him. Good luck finding a 1C to replace what he's bringing, particularly a prime aged one. If Pettersson wants 4-5 years I think he'll get it, and I think he'll get market value for the duration. Top tier players always get top tier dollars, Canucks might simply have to cut cap elsewhere but that's the cost of success. Edited November 7, 2023 by Coconuts 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) Worth mentioning is that this is also a rather unique period in NHL history, up until the advent of Covid the cap continued to steadily increase but then Covid came along and the cap has been relatively flat since. NHL management, NHL players, and player agents are all aware that we're going to see more cap jumps sooner than later. Some of them will probably be quite sizeable if speculation over the last year or two is anything to go off of. There will always be players who lock in and take the security, but I wouldn't be surprised if players and agents were opportunistic regarding this unique cap scenario. A rising cap raises all contracts, but top players will eat up most of such increases. I'd say Matthews is the first such example of this that we've seen, his next contract will likely be even larger than his current one and the Leafs will likely pay it. Matthews will be roughly 31 at the beginning his next deal, he's set himself up to cash in one more time. He'll almost certainly make more on two more medium length contracts than he'd have made on a single long one. Edited November 7, 2023 by Coconuts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 13 minutes ago, Tower102 said: That would be terrible for the Canucks. No way we should go to 12 unless its 8 years. I wouldn't play too much hardball on a negotiation with Petey as long as its 8 year max, if he tries for a shorter deal then the pencils get sharpened. I don't think anyone that is even close to EPs level is going to sign an 8 year deal that takes them to 33, that makes no sense for the player at all. It will almost certainly be a 4-5 year deal that will put him in the top 5 salaries in the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strawbone Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 5x$10M It would instantly become the best contract in Canucks history, and Petey would be revered amongst fans as the player who signed a deal that enabled the team to surround him with the elite talent they need to win their first Stanley Cup. And then I get rudely woken up from my amazing dream. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IBatch Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, BCNate said: I don't think anyone that is even close to EPs level is going to sign an 8 year deal that takes them to 33, that makes no sense for the player at all. It will almost certainly be a 4-5 year deal that will put him in the top 5 salaries in the league. Why not? It's been happening since the cap came in ... or circa late 2000's anyways. How many guys have signed a 4-5 year deal at his range since then, after a bridge (sure some sign a bridge he's a RFA x 1 UFA x 7)? Even before, the Sedins were not at his range, and neither was Naslund. They peaked much later. He's only losing one RFA year..I think it's possible, but also think it's unlikely. Stars sign for term. Super-stars do too. And this economy .. it's not great. Recession is coming if we aren't in one already, cap will go up but it's not a foregone conclusion. For me it's about where he thinks he's going to win. Maybe he takes a 4-5year deal that's brings him to 29-30 or so. But why? Even at 33-34 he's going to get another big deal if he's a superstar and wants to keep playing (healthy enough to keep going). The Sedins got a little more cap percentage their last deal then their five year peak deal. That's it a little more. Edited November 7, 2023 by IBatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCNate Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 25 minutes ago, IBatch said: Why not? It's been happening since the cap came in ... or circa late 2000's anyways. How many guys have signed a 4-5 year deal at his range since then, after a bridge (sure some sign a bridge he's a RFA x 1 UFA x 7)? Even before, the Sedins were not at his range, and neither was Naslund. They peaked much later. He's only losing one RFA year..I think it's possible, but also think it's unlikely. Stars sign for term. Super-stars do too. And this economy .. it's not great. Recession is coming if we aren't in one already, cap will go up but it's not a foregone conclusion. For me it's about where he thinks he's going to win. Maybe he takes a 4-5year deal that's brings him to 29-30 or so. But why? Even at 33-34 he's going to get another big deal if he's a superstar and wants to keep playing (healthy enough to keep going). The Sedins got a little more cap percentage their last deal then their five year peak deal. That's it a little more. The cap increases that are coming in the next few years are a big factor, these are pretty unique times relative to the rest of the cap era. You answered your own question though. If Ep has say 13 years left in his career, he can sign a 5 year deal at peak salary, and then another 8 year deal at peak salary at 30. If he signs an 8 year deal now, the odds he gets that same money at 33/34 for 5 years is highly unlikely. It's about maximizing career earnings, and these star players and agents are pretty smart. The Matthews model is going to become more common I feel. Anyway, who knows how it shakes out. I'd bet on 5x12, but I'm certainly not trying to change anyones opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
qwijjibo Posted November 7, 2023 Share Posted November 7, 2023 2 hours ago, canucks curse said: Yes but so is his chance of staying here Yeah. I don't see him going anywhere now. Team is rolling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outsiders Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 6 years 11 mill per. Thats my guess Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnstorm Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 52 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: This makes the most sense to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 1 hour ago, Elias Pettersson said: As we've said, Pettersson's in the driver's seat and the Canucks will pay what he asks 50 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said: Pettersson could very well bring home hardware, I'm not sure that'd change things in regards to price so much as maybe entrench numbers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKSR Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 Whatever he signs for, we will get a sense of how badly he wants to win. He's not stupid. If he eats up too much of the cap space, he knows there is no way this team will be a Cup winner. Having one player taking up 16% of the cap limit screws the team depth for sure. I'll say it now, and you can quote me on it. If Petey signs a $13M+ AAV deal, the Canucks won't win a Cup with this group. He needs to leave $500k to $1M on the table if he wants this team to remain ultra competitive. $12M AAV would be perfect. Heck, even $12.5M would be ok. Call it a $100M deal over 8 years ($12.5M AAV) 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannydog Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 The only downside to Pettersons game is FO%. He’s got plenty of strengths and he shows them every game. His IQ being his best strength but damn he backchecks , his passing abilities, his shot, his ability to slip in and out of range of attackers stick checks and body checks and still have the puck on his stick.His competitive nature will drive him to work on and perfect his face offs . He will be better next season and will be worth every penny of the 12-12.5 x5 year contract he signs before this off season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoCupSyndrome Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 4 or 5 years at $12.5M likely the starting point but hopefully mutually agreeable 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BabychStache Posted November 10, 2023 Share Posted November 10, 2023 I’d love 8x12.5 or 4x13.5 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elias Pettersson Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 2 hours ago, HKSR said: Whatever he signs for, we will get a sense of how badly he wants to win. He's not stupid. If he eats up too much of the cap space, he knows there is no way this team will be a Cup winner. Having one player taking up 16% of the cap limit screws the team depth for sure. I'll say it now, and you can quote me on it. If Petey signs a $13M+ AAV deal, the Canucks won't win a Cup with this group. He needs to leave $500k to $1M on the table if he wants this team to remain ultra competitive. $12M AAV would be perfect. Heck, even $12.5M would be ok. Call it a $100M deal over 8 years ($12.5M AAV) That is the number I am envisioning as well. To get him locked up for 8 years and maybe take a small discount if he is winning major awards... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 2 hours ago, BabychStache said: I’d love 8x12.5 or 4x13.5 If the term is shorter than 8 then the yearly cap allocation will be less. So four years will be around 10 million per. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 My magic 8 ball says Petey signs after this road trip. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: My magic 8 ball says Petey signs after this road trip. I just did an 8 ball and I disagree. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Long Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 minute ago, PhillipBlunt said: I just did an 8 ball and I disagree. Your 8 ball is high. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhillipBlunt Posted November 11, 2023 Share Posted November 11, 2023 1 hour ago, Bob Long said: Your 8 ball is high. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 Well no duh Wonder what the term will look like 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6of1_halfdozenofother Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 58 minutes ago, Coconuts said: Well no duh Wonder what the term will look like Frank trying to appear relevant, writing a lot of stuff while saying absolutely nothing new. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted November 14, 2023 Share Posted November 14, 2023 4 minutes ago, 6of1_halfdozenofother said: Frank trying to appear relevant, writing a lot of stuff while saying absolutely nothing new. Coconuts anticipates that the Canucks will probably try to keep players who help them win games c7 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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