[Trade] Canucks Trade Anthony Beauvillier to Blackhawks for 2024 5th round pick

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Nucker67 said:

Anyone else thinking now that Beauvillier is with Chicago, that he'll start scoring and racking up points?

 

I get a similar sense from Kuzmenko. If the Canucks move on from him, I'm concerned he'll be let loose (like in 2022/23) on another team and be an offensive threat every game. Tocchet has Kuz playing under strict rules and it's affected his game (production). Kuz is likely overthinking everything these days, he's just not getting Tocchet's staples. 

Kuzmenko is being wasted under Tocchet. The two don’t fit together. Kuzmenko needs a coach that will just let him play. I mean how good is Kaprizov and Panarin in the defensive zone?  
 

At the end of the day, you just need to let Kuzy loose so he can score 40 goals. I don’t really care what he does defensively. Pettersson and Mikheyev should pick up most of the slack. 
 

Tocchet however doesn’t agree with this. According to him, he has non negotiables. Kuzy is probably breaking those. At almost 28 years old, I don’t see Kuzy learning how to play defence. Bure didn’t have to. So best just to trade him now before he loses all his value. 

[Attila Umbrus]

1 minute ago, Coconuts said:

 

Moving him also gives us an opportunity to slot someone else into that spot, Miller and Pettersson can drive their lines, we could look to add another element to our top 6

 

Don't have a whole lot of grit in our top 6 for example 

Agree, need some beef on Peteys line…a couple more games conditioning wise for Podz on the farm and he could be ready to try on Peteys wing. Low cost solution right there if it works.

 

Podz just come back from injury, but it hasn’t phased him at all. He is looking great out there.

[CanucksJay]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

I think we add, we have room to bring in a top 4D if we send cap out and don't sign Bear

 

But I'm also not of the opinion that we should somehow be all in this season

 

If we can find a way to simply add a top 4D and have them be part of a longer-term plan I'd be content with that as our last trade of the season

 

I'd just ride out the 6M tbh, depth on D is important and despite the flack he gets Myers has played top 4 for a loooong time, having him on the bottom pairing is depth

 

As for Boeser, hard to say, players are often paid on what they've done recently, but I do view him as more likely to give us a fair deal than Kuz or other UFA's because of his roots here

. 

 

To be honest, this is my first time I feel like I can just be a fan and enjoy / cheer on the team. Management has it under control and I know they will do a better job than whatever alterative options I have in mind.

So strange that I'm feeling this way lol. It's a strange new feeling.

 

I wonder how many bad deals need to happen before I go back to my old ways lol. They have a pretty long leash now

[stawns]

48 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Yep that was the decision they made. One of Lekkerimaki or Willander will have to make team, and one of Kuzy or Boeser needs to be moved.

 

it'll be interesting to see what happens around Boeser.  There's a very good chance they won't be able to afford both he and Petey at this point

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Agree, need some beef on Peteys line…a couple more games conditioning wise for Podz on the farm and he could be ready to try on Peteys wing. Low cost solution right there if it works.

 

Podz just come back from injury, but it hasn’t phased him at all. He is looking great out there.

 

Not sure it'd be Podz, I think we'd want someone more proven imo, Podz hasn't shown much at the NHL level since his rookie season and despite his being young enough to develop into something good I question the likelihood of him reaching his potential 

[Elias Pettersson]

9 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Moving him also gives us an opportunity to slot someone else into that spot, Miller and Pettersson can drive their lines, we could look to add another element to our top 6

 

Don't have a whole lot of grit in our top 6 for example 

If we trade Kuzy, I would go hard after Lawson Crouse. He is a prototypical Tocchet type player. You can slide him next to Petey. 

[Coconuts]

7 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

To be honest, this is my first time I feel like I can just be a fan and enjoy / cheer on the team. Management has it under control and I know they will do a better job than whatever alterative options I have in mind.

So strange that I'm feeling this way lol. It's a strange new feeling.

 

I wonder how many bad deals need to happen before I go back to my old ways lol. They have a pretty long leash now

 

I'm generally pretty pragmatic when it comes to the Canucks and even I have to admit they've largely done a good job thus far

Edited November 29, 2023 by Coconuts

[CanucksJay]

1 minute ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Kuzmenko is being wasted under Tocchet. The two don’t fit together. Kuzmenko needs a coach that will just let him play. I mean how good is Kaprizov and Panarin in the defensive zone?  
 

At the end of the day, you just need to let Kuzy loose so he can score 40 goals. I don’t really care what he does defensively. Pettersson and Mikheyev should pick up most of the slack. 
 

Tocchet however doesn’t agree with this. According to him, he has non negotiables. Kuzy is probably breaking those. At almost 28 years old, I don’t see Kuzy learning how to play defence. Bure didn’t have to. So best just to trade him now before he loses all his value. 

 

My hope is still that Kuzy adheres to RT's non negotiables. You can find creativity WITHIN the framework. Accountability, dependability should be followed by everyone and I see your point in that its better to trade him before value goes down but my hope is that Kuz learns how to play systems and learns to excel in it and be a better player long term through it.

 

Like I had no idea Miller had it in him to be a premier 2 way forward in this league. I really thought he was a lost cause as he used to get all his points by gambling and giving up chances. Same with Boeser. I didnt think he would ever understand where to be positionally. How to engage properly in the board battles to have leverage and win the puck.  This year showed me all these things can be taught.

 

I love Kuzy's attitude so Im really hoping he learns as well. Imagine Kuzy develops a solid 2 way game and is great along the boards, the guy would become a superstar and it didn't cost us anything. I have faith that this staff can teach him.  I just hope he learns sooner than later before staff and management give up on him

 

[BabychStache]

6 minutes ago, Rekker said:

Absolutely, unless there is some crazy offer, which there won't be. Kuz is trying to adjust his game to fit Tocchet's style. He's a natural goal scorer so patience would be smart here.

Reading this thread got me thinking....

 

Would you do Kuz + Myers to Arizona for Crouse + Durzi + a filler to make cap work (ideally McBain?)

 

AZ gets their 2nd best offensive weapon with term after Keller + an expiring contract they can move at the TDL. 

Canucks get a strong Power Forward for the middle 6 and a great up and coming D man. 

[Bob Long]

43 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Wouldn't be surprised if he was extended 

 

Myers at 6M is less than ideal, Myers at 2.5-3M as a 5 who can step up and play top 4 is pretty solid 

 

[Coconuts]

2 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

If we trade Kuzy, I would go hard after Lawson Crouse. He is a prototypical Tocchet type player. You can slide him next to Petey. 

 

Someone in that vein, yeah, that'd be good

 

If the Coyotes are serious about not being a lousy team I'd be surprised if he were available though, his contract seems to be pretty good value for a franchise who'll probably still be more conservative financially 

[Attila Umbrus]

4 minutes ago, Coconuts said:

 

Not sure it'd be Podz, I think we'd want someone more proven imo, Podz hasn't shown much at the NHL level since his rookie season and despite his being young enough to develop into something good I question the likelihood of him reaching his potential 

I think it’s worth a try and it doesn’t cost you anything. A heavy forward will cost a lot. And not sure who would fit the bill there. Podz at least is defensively sound. He could if ready provide Petey relief in that manner so he could focus on more offence 5 v 5.

[Rekker]

1 minute ago, BabychStache said:

Reading this thread got me thinking....

 

Would you do Kuz + Myers to Arizona for Crouse + Durzi + a filler to make cap work (ideally McBain?)

 

AZ gets their 2nd best offensive weapon with term after Keller + an expiring contract they can move at the TDL. 

Canucks get a strong Power Forward for the middle 6 and a great up and coming D man. 

I would, very much doubt Arizona would though. Crouse looks to be breaking out and is still young.

[BPA]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

it'll be interesting to see what happens around Boeser.  There's a very good chance they won't be able to afford both he and Petey at this point

I don’t think Boeser would be able to command too much for just one stellar season.  Looking at his past performances, he was traditionally a 50-60pt guy.

 

He’d be 28yr old by the time for his next contract extension.  So presumably, he’d want it to be a long term instead of a short 3yr term.

 

Guessing his value would be around $7M x 6-8yrs.  For that price, I’d do it.  It’s below Miller and Hughes (who are the core) contract values.  So it’s a good range I think.

[Coconuts]

1 minute ago, Attila Umbrus said:

I think it’s worth a try and it doesn’t cost you anything. A heavy forward will cost a lot. And not sure who would fit the bill there. Podz at least is defensively sound. He could if ready provide Petey relief in that manner so he could focus on more offence 5 v 5.

 

It def doesn't hurt to try, we'll see Podz up here at some point so who knows

[Attila Umbrus]

3 minutes ago, BabychStache said:

Reading this thread got me thinking....

 

Would you do Kuz + Myers to Arizona for Crouse + Durzi + a filler to make cap work (ideally McBain?)

 

AZ gets their 2nd best offensive weapon with term after Keller + an expiring contract they can move at the TDL. 

Canucks get a strong Power Forward for the middle 6 and a great up and coming D man. 

Arizona is looking to add this year apparently. So I think they would not like to give up much of their core. They are a scrappy team and tough to beat. It’s nice to see for a change from them. Sounds like they want to push for a playoff spot. So I think getting Crouse is a pipe dream unfortunately.

[CanucksJay]

Just now, Attila Umbrus said:

I think it’s worth a try and it doesn’t cost you anything. A heavy forward will cost a lot. And not sure who would fit the bill there. Podz at least is defensively sound. He could if ready provide Petey relief in that manner so he could focus on more offence 5 v 5.

Agreed in that Podz has a defensively sound game. Before RT fixed Miller, Boeser and a slew of other players on this team, I would have put Podz 2nd after Petey in terms of Hockey IQ amongst forwards.  A line of Podz, Petey and Mik would be able to matchup to any forward line in the league and not give up much. 

It could free up Miller and Boeser to feast on the other lines. 

 

The only risk is that he is not ready offensively. I wouldnt mind slowly bringing him into games that are "easier" so that he puts up some points and gains confidence.

[Ballisticsports]

16 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

Kuzmenko is being wasted under Tocchet. The two don’t fit together. Kuzmenko needs a coach that will just let him play. I mean how good is Kaprizov and Panarin in the defensive zone?  
 

At the end of the day, you just need to let Kuzy loose so he can score 40 goals. I don’t really care what he does defensively. Pettersson and Mikheyev should pick up most of the slack. 
 

Tocchet however doesn’t agree with this. According to him, he has non negotiables. Kuzy is probably breaking those. At almost 28 years old, I don’t see Kuzy learning how to play defence. Bure didn’t have to. So best just to trade him now before he loses all his value. 

RT has said he doesn't want Kuz overthinking the system and just play to the staples and skate

If you want players to respect a team game, everyone has to play within it or you lose the team

[Ballisticsports]

19 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

To be honest, this is my first time I feel like I can just be a fan and enjoy / cheer on the team. Management has it under control and I know they will do a better job than whatever alterative options I have in mind.

So strange that I'm feeling this way lol. It's a strange new feeling.

 

I wonder how many bad deals need to happen before I go back to my old ways lol. They have a pretty long leash now

Since Sept there have only been 9 transactions and the Canucks have been in on 4 of them

It is very hard to make a deal right now and they have done well

I applaud the management for working very hard and not fleece our future while doing so

[Attila Umbrus]

7 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Agreed in that Podz has a defensively sound game. Before RT fixed Miller, Boeser and a slew of other players on this team, I would have put Podz 2nd after Petey in terms of Hockey IQ amongst forwards.  A line of Podz, Petey and Mik would be able to matchup to any forward line in the league and not give up much. 

It could free up Miller and Boeser to feast on the other lines. 

 

The only risk is that he is not ready offensively. I wouldnt mind slowly bringing him into games that are "easier" so that he puts up some points and gains confidence.

Very good points. I agree, offensively he needs work and maybe you can swap him and Garland out here and there as he builds his confidence up.

[Jaimito]

 

 

 

[AK-19]

57 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Thanks

I want sure if Bear played under RT.

 

If Bear was moved because of a logjam on D, that's fine.  As long as he is capable of playing systems and reliable D. I just dont want a guy who couldnt figure out how to play a structured game and got moved out of Carolina

 

Ideally, he would be a good bottom 6 guy that makes Myers expendable and we upgrade on a top 4 D with Myer's capspace

 

I think there is more to it than that. Carolina was playing Chatfield over him. For whatever reason, Carolina didn't feel he played better than him in their system.

 

 

23 minutes ago, BabychStache said:

Reading this thread got me thinking....

 

Would you do Kuz + Myers to Arizona for Crouse + Durzi + a filler to make cap work (ideally McBain?)

 

AZ gets their 2nd best offensive weapon with term after Keller + an expiring contract they can move at the TDL. 

Canucks get a strong Power Forward for the middle 6 and a great up and coming D man. 

 

No need to make it complicated. Kuz+ for Crouse. Arizona desperately needs top end talent. Lawson Crouse is a good player but doesn't seem to have that top end skill. 

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, AK-19 said:

 

I think there is more to it than that. Carolina was playing Chatfield over him. For whatever reason, Carolina didn't feel he played better than him in their system.

 

 

Cap always plays a factor though.

Where were they in relation to the cap and how much was Bear making vs Chatfield?

 

If it's negligible, that's a bit of a concern. I mean we had Chatfield and didnt deem him to be an NHL player

 

Just checked.

Bear 2m vs Chatfield 700k / 125k 2 way salary

 

I guess the question is, was Bear 1.3m better?

or were the Canes tight against the cap 

 

It looks liek the latter?

 

Capthit for Chatfield that year on a 2 way worked out to be 187k

Canes were maxed and it was a cap relief move

Edited November 29, 2023 by CanucksJay

[BPA]

2 minutes ago, AK-19 said:

 

I think there is more to it than that. Carolina was playing Chatfield over him. For whatever reason, Carolina didn't feel he played better than him in their system.

 

 

 

No need to make it complicated. Kuz+ for Crouse. Arizona desperately needs top end talent. Lawson Crouse is a good player but doesn't seem to have that top end skill. 

Doubtful they’d trade Crouse.  He’s got 10 goals (leads the team in goals) and 3 assists in 20 games. He’s 26yrs old with a cap hit of $4.3M for the next 3 years.

[Elias Pettersson]

20 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

RT has said he doesn't want Kuz overthinking the system and just play to the staples and skate

If you want players to respect a team game, everyone has to play within it or you lose the team

 

It's kinda hard not to overthink if you get benched every time you make a bad play.  Kuzmenko is a goal scorer, similar to Bure.  Bure didn't have to worry about defence, he rarely spent any time in the defensive zone.

 

If Tocchet wants to be a top coach in the NHL, then he also has to learn how to work with Kuzmenko to get the best out of him.  Not just say, hey I have these non negotiables, either you do them or your benched.  Coaches have to adapt to the players as well.  Kuzmenko isn't any better defensively right now than he was last year, plus his goal production has plummeted on top.  So, basically Tocchet has stripped him down to a 3rd or 4th liner.  What's the point of having him around if that is the case?