PGT - Vegas at Vancouver - November 30 2023

[stawns]

2 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I'm one of the people whose being labeled as "negative". But I'm saying the same thing you are about pk, pp and 5on5 issues. The only difference is I'm pointing these things out during the game, when other people's emotions are high so they get upset easier.

I admit I post less when the team wins or plays well... but lately that's not happening so I guess I'm posting more.

 

I feel that I'm being very objective. I'm not hating on the team or players because I'm emotionally unstable. I'm pointing out issues I'm seeing, and the same issues are showing up night after night unfixed. Mostly to do with the teams lack of compete and energy in games like last night.

It's also because I believe this team can be, and should be better.

To me it's the folks being blindly positive that seem out of touch. Refusing to acknowledge the issues with this team doesn't make them better fans, and getting upset with posters for being frustrated with poor play lately also doesn't help.

 

Fact. Canucks are clearly struggling to get back to their winning ways. Their goals for average has plummeted, their pk has plummeted, their pp has plummeted. We are 4-6 in the last 10. 

 

I think posters have a right to be concerned because we all want playoffs, but are trending quickly in the wrong direction, and the teams chasing us are doing the opposite.

 

 

It's the shouting down of other posters who don't share their perspective that I find most disappointing.

[Bob Long]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

 

It's the shouting down of other posters who don't share their perspective that I find most disappointing.

 

Kind of like the trade Miller mob was?

[-dlc-]

"I just go with the internet comments section, they're over there...."

 

I'm avoiding this place after a loss because it just falls apart. I appreciate the opinions but every loss it's the same.  Just get behind the damn team. 

 

 

 

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

It's the shouting down of other posters who don't share their perspective that I find most disappointing.

Meh, that’s a feature of everyone on here from super mods on down to assholes like me. 

[-dlc-]

3 minutes ago, Bob Long said:

 

Kind of like the trade Miller mob was?

They know much more than the rest of us. And the coaches and gm.

 

Right?

 

Have a great day, everyone. Love hockey, love our team, life is good. Keep it all in perspective. 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, Bob Long said:

 

Kind of like the trade Miller mob was?

 

Actually, the people advocating for a miller trade were completely objective, it was the miller fan club who shouted down differing views, lobbing personal insults etc.  

 

I might not like Millers personality or his attitude when things are bad, but I've never said he's anything but a great player and that's what made him do valuable in a trade.

 

I still think that would have been the best move because it would have added much needed depth to the org and pushed the window a little further down the road when I think they'll really be ready.

 

But, disagree with certain posters and get shouted down for being a "hater"

[-dlc-]

Leave super mods out of this....we're just regular aholes like the rest of you.

 

[Bob Long]

6 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Actually, the people advocating for a miller trade were completely objective, it was the miller fan club who shouted down differing views, lobbing personal insults etc.  

 

I might not like Millers personality or his attitude when things are bad, but I've never said he's anything but a great player and that's what made him do valuable in a trade.

 

I still think that would have been the best move because it would have added much needed depth to the org and pushed the window a little further down the road when I think they'll really be ready.

 

But, disagree with certain posters and get shouted down for being a "hater"

 

Omg that's some hilarious revisionist history there. 

[OldFaithfulcap]

I probably just need to recalibrate expectations. Without pettey being pettey we're in the playoff hunt but not a contender. And that's probably ok since we haven't made the playoffs in a normal season for a while.

 

 

[Nucker67]

Canucks lose to the Stanley Cup champs and some are crying, wanting people fired or traded.   

 

 

[Shift-4]

Well....

How bout that trade?!

[CanucksJay]

33 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

Why is there a bias?  They stuck with the Avs, but I never felt that they were doing anything but hanging in there for two periods, then in the third, they were outclassed

 

My eye test is confirmed by just normal stats as well as advanced analytics. 

 

After 2, shots were pretty much even and score was tied. 

 

Looking a little deeper though, our faceoffs percentage was much higher. 

 

We had the edge in High Danger scoring chances as well as expected goals for. 

 

As a result, one could say that probability wise, we should have been in the lead. 

 

For you to say the game was never in doubt and the canucks were "never doing anything but just hanging in with the Avs" is not accurate. 

 

That's why I say there is a bias. 

 

Eye test as well as advanced stats are saying the canucks are right in it and in fact should have the lead but if your "perspective" is that there wasn't ever a doubt that they would lose, you're going into the game jaded and not calling it as is. 

 

[Reznor]

8 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

I'm not saying burn it down I'm saying fire Tocchet and get and experienced coach

 

I would venture to guess that 95-97% of Canuck fans are quite content with Tocchet as coach. He's obviously not infallible, but I think he demands the right things from his players and teaches them the right way, and does well with the media which in turn allows the fans to hear the straight goods.

[Attila Umbrus]

9 hours ago, Smashian Kassian said:

Starting to lose a bit of confidence tbh.

 

We'll see how they respond on Saturday but they seem to be clearly lacking against top team (expected to some extent), but even against lesser teams can't put together a full effort anymore.

 

I have alot of faith in Tocchet but to see this team consistently fall apart when met with a bit adversity is very discouraging, don't think they've had 1 significant comeback win this year. 

 

I think every team even Vegas go on losing streaks through the year. When injuries pile up they happen.

 

You have players playing way above their head and it’s natural things will slowly erode when this happens.

 

Heck Vegas is just getting back to healthy again. They were missing Cotter, Roy, Theodore, and Stephenson…they’ve been losing a lot lately too.

 

Bruins have been playing 50/50 hockey lately too.

 

This shit happens, even the best teams struggle with injuries when they happen.

 

Our club is no different. We have Friedman, Juulsen, and Aman all playing over their heads. Our D is all mixed up. It’s hard to match up our D pairings against the competition when it’s all muddled up like this. We also really miss Sutr who is an amazing 3rd line center. No offence to Blueger but he’s more a 4 C…I’ll reserve my judgement till we get some key players back in.

 

Toc is left to shorten his bench most nights right now and play the wheels off his top guys. They are all tired. Once he can lengthen his bench again we will see positive results imo.

Losing sucks, I hated last night. But with the addition of big Z and possibly another big bodied forward to help Petey we can turn this ship in the right direction again.

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Attila Umbrus

[NoCupSyndrome]

The "down period" was preceded by the eastern road trip. Not an excuse, just a fact. Since that trip: 

 

Home - Win

Away - Loss

Home - Loss

Home - Win

Away - Loss

Away - Win

Away - Loss

Home - Win

Home - Loss

 

The longest home stand they have had is one three gamer. Most of their home stands have been interrupted by at least one away game. The result:

 

Home record 8-2-1

Away record 7-6-0

 

After the Saturday away game, big one, they play five in a row at home. They need a big win on Saturday against the Flames and hopefully that leads to a recharge and successful home stand.

 

Then four games away and three home games around the Christmas. Schedule looks better over th next little bit so the team needs to take advantage.

 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by NoCupSyndrome

[JayDangles]

44 minutes ago, Alflives said:

So are the Canucks your only club? If so then being negative if fine. But if you have other clubs you cheer for then (IMHAO) you’re not a true fan. 

I don't cheer for any other teams. Period. Only scenario where I may root for another nhl team is when I have money on the line. Im not as old as some on this board, but canucks have been my team since 1998. Thays when I turned 15 and we got cable TV!

 

[CanucksJay]

12 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

I think every team even Vegas go on losing streaks through the year. When injuries pile up they happen.

 

You have players playing way above their head and it’s natural things will slowly erode when this happens.

 

Heck Vegas is just getting back to healthy again. They are missing Cotter, Roy, Theodore, and Stephenson…guess what they’ve been losing a lot lately too.

 

Bruins have been playing 50/50 hockey lately too.

 

This shit happens, even the best teams struggle with injuries when they happen.

 

Our club is no different. We have Friedman, Juulsen, and Aman all playing over their heads. Our D is all mixed up. It’s hard to match up our D pairings against the competition when it’s all muddled up like this. We also really miss Sutr who is an amazing 3rd line center. No offence to Blueger but he’s more a 4 C…I’ll reserve my judgement till we get some key players back in.

 

Toc is left to shorten his bench most nights right now and play the wheels off his top guys. They are all tired. Once he can lengthen his bench again we will see positive results imo.

Losing sucks, I hated last night. But with the addition of big Z and possibly another big bodied forward to help Petey we can turn this ship in the right direction again.

Well said

 

It wasn't sustainable to play Hughes 28min a night. 

 

Add in that Petey has been in a funk. 

 

Already thin D corps lost Soucy and is relying on Juulsen and Friedman in the top 6. 

 

This in turn adds stress on Cole and Myers who aren't good enough to be the leaders of their pairings and were seeing more mistakes from both of them. 

 

PDG back down to earth. 

 

3rd line C who was scoring clutch goals got injured. 

 

It's inevitable that we'll go through some bumps. 

 

I still have a huge amount of faith in RT and managent. 

 

Bringing in Z was a huge move and will hopefully stop the bleeding and stabilize the D

 

Some bright spots. 

Juulsen is looking pretty good. I would be ok with him as the 7D going forward whereas I thought he was AHL fodder. 

Same for Friedman. 

Nice to know we have some depth on D with Z coming in and Soucy returning in a few weeks. 

Hogz has been great. 

So has Joshua. 

We're really close to turning it around again. 

Thank goodness we built a good record the first 15 games. It allows us to go through a rough patch like this and push through. 

 

 

Edited December 1, 2023 by CanucksJay

[NoCupSyndrome]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Well said

 

It wasn't sustainable to play Hughes 28min a night. 

 

Add in that Petey has been in a funk. 

 

Already thin D corps lost Soucy and is relying on Juulsen and Friedman in the top 6. 

 

This in turn adds stress on Cole and Myers who aren't good enough to be the leaders of their pairings and were seeing more mistakes from both of them. 

 

PDG back down to earth. 

 

3rd line C who was scoring clutch goals got injured. 

 

It's inevitable that we'll go through some bumps. 

 

I still have a huge amount of faith in RT and managent. 

 

Bringing in Z was a huge move and will hopefully stop the bleeding and stabilize the D

 

Some bright spots. 

Juulsen is looking pretty good. I would be ok with him as the 7D going forward whereas I thought he was AHL fodder. 

Same for Friedman. 

Nice to know we have some depth on D with X coming in and Soucy returning in a few weeks. 

Hogz has been great. 

So has Joshua. 

We're really close to turning it around again. 

Thank goodness we built a good record the first 15 games. It allows us to go through a rough patch like this and push through. 

 

 

 

Agreed, Toch is going to have to find a way to spread the mins around across the board. Third line is playing really well, play them more. It's a long season.

Edited December 1, 2023 by NoCupSyndrome

[JayDangles]

43 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

"I just go with the internet comments section, they're over there...."

 

I'm avoiding this place after a loss because it just falls apart. I appreciate the opinions but every loss it's the same.  Just get behind the damn team. 

 

 

 

Aw that sucks Deb. I don't like the idea that people avoid this place because there's negativity during or after losses.

 

We all handle the games differently. I'm not a negative person in life at all. And during the month of October and most of November I was cheering on my couch after goals. Haven't don't that in years. I want the team to succeed as much as everyone.... I just get frustrated when we see the same things over and over... starts to bring back old emotions. 

Try not to see it so much as negativity, but rather just venting frustrations. I need to get it out so that I can reset for the next game!

 

[CanucksJay]

2 minutes ago, NoCupSyndrome said:

 

Agreed, Toch is going to have to find a way to spread the mins around across the board. Third line is playing really well, play them more. It's a long season.

3rd line has been our best line the past few games. 

I agree let them play. 

Both bleuger and Joshua play PK and are defensively aware enough. 

I wouldn't even mind matching them up against the top line every now and then to free up Miller and petey

[wai_lai416]

Despite the hot start the Canucks have the same issues as every other year.. they don’t match up well against playoff caliber teams outside of Dallas. We stomped the s*** out of non playoff teams the last 2 season and slightly below .500 against the playoff teams.. we are kinda exactly the same this year.. with the exception of dominating the oilers goalie when they were struggling to make it look better than it was. If we play the current oiler with mcdavid and drai back out of their slump I’m not sure we beat them 3x even with their bad goaltending with our slumping pp and defence. I think this team still needs a lot of work. Defence is looking better with zadorov add and hopefully soucy coming back soon. But I think we are still missing a big 3c and honestly need at least 1 or 2 more real top 6 wingers? Outside of boeser.. we have 0 proven wingers that’s capable of producing at a high rate. Maybe kuz but for all we know last year could be a fluke. Mikheyev is ok but let’s be real on a contending team he’s a 3rd line winger. Same as garland.. pdg is prolly a 4th liner. Ep seems kinda broken right now.. but I love all the “fans” throwing insult and trashing him. Other team just have to shutdown the pp. easy win 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, JayDangles said:

I don't cheer for any other teams. Period. Only scenario where I may root for another nhl team is when I have money on the line. Im not as old as some on this board, but canucks have been my team since 1998. Thays when I turned 15 and we got cable TV!

 

Well, fellow hater of all other teams, be as negative as you like. Alf can’t stand watching Garland. He’s useless and must be removed. Hogs is a dough head and needs to go too. 
We do have an elite core. One of the best for sure. We have smart management again too; a nice change after the dark Benning years. They are changing the supporting cast. And that’s what’s needed.  

[Attila Umbrus]

11 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Well said

 

It wasn't sustainable to play Hughes 28min a night. 

 

Add in that Petey has been in a funk. 

 

Already thin D corps lost Soucy and is relying on Juulsen and Friedman in the top 6. 

 

This in turn adds stress on Cole and Myers who aren't good enough to be the leaders of their pairings and were seeing more mistakes from both of them. 

 

PDG back down to earth. 

 

3rd line C who was scoring clutch goals got injured. 

 

It's inevitable that we'll go through some bumps. 

 

I still have a huge amount of faith in RT and managent. 

 

Bringing in Z was a huge move and will hopefully stop the bleeding and stabilize the D

 

Some bright spots. 

Juulsen is looking pretty good. I would be ok with him as the 7D going forward whereas I thought he was AHL fodder. 

Same for Friedman. 

Nice to know we have some depth on D with Z coming in and Soucy returning in a few weeks. 

Hogz has been great. 

So has Joshua. 

We're really close to turning it around again. 

Thank goodness we built a good record the first 15 games. It allows us to go through a rough patch like this and push through. 

 

 

Double well said Jay

 

cheers

[Ghostsof1915]

58 minutes ago, -dlc- said:

"I just go with the internet comments section, they're over there...."

 

I'm avoiding this place after a loss because it just falls apart. I appreciate the opinions but every loss it's the same.  Just get behind the damn team. 

 

 

 

I'm actually getting turned off by the comments during the games as well. I get we are all upset when the guys don't play well. I will make the odd comment out of frustration. But that's more to the game, than the long term look of the club. Folks are too eager to want to rub it  into other teams when we're winning. Then statement games come up, and it shows we're still learning, and trying to get better. But as mentioned by another poster. It is a process. The team has to learn to handle adversity and be able to play against teams like Vegas, and Colorado, Edmonton, Toronto. Respect will come when the Canucks start doing well in the Playoffs. That's where rivalries happen. The team has made great strides, being top 5 in the standings so far.

 

We just need to learn and reach that next level. The team has to be razor sharp, and focused, and get back to dictating play. There's going to be bad games. It's how you bounce back from them, and hopefully learn from them. One bright spot is Tocc put Hogs with Miller and Boeser. At least he's rewarding strong play.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ghostsof1915

[Attila Umbrus]

8 hours ago, spook007 said:

Step away from the ledge folks...

its 1 game...

 

…i’d jump off that ledge, it looks so beautiful…sorry I live up north no water like that up here

 

You should make the ledge scarier…this is way too enticing!! I wanna go to Mexico now spook…thx!