PGT - Vegas at Vancouver - November 30 2023

[Attila Umbrus]

8 hours ago, Curmudgeon said:

What are you talking about? He is averaging 18:24 a night this season and 18:11 average over his entire career.

I don’t take RU Serious very Serious at all…it’s better that way

[spook007]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

 

Or some people are objective.  Tocchet had them playing well and they definitely snuck up on teams for the first 15 games, but teams are ready for them now and the coaching staff hasn't adjusted, at all. 

 

The even strength scoring is almost gone and the PP has cool down........isn't it up to the coaching staff to make those adjustments?  

 

To me, the negative people are the ones who were oblivious or willfully blind as to what was happening on the ice since the Dallas game and wanted to shout down anyone with a different perspective.

 

I'm one of the people who's been concerned, but objectively and, I believe, rightly so.  Yet, I stay positive about the players and about their playoff chances. 

 

The people who are calling others out for bring negative are the ones trashing the actual players because it's now blatantly obvious that the team isn't who they thought they were

This I don't understand Stawns. 
I think, I'm fairly open minded, but yes probably leaning towards beingp positive, and calling out negative posters. 
I don't get, how I am trashing the actual players?

Last night they laid an egg, no doubt about it, but it happens. If poster said some players were poor its fair, cause they collectively were. 

And yes, they have not had the same kind of jump, as they did from the start of the season, but from there to totally slag off the coach and the management is a joke. 
 

Its the coach job to rectify this, but it doesn't take 5 minutes....

Last night looked like some of the days under Bruce with lazy back tracking, players running into one another, passing to nobody amd in general very little structure... to me at least it looked like a few of the, unfortunately, core players reverted to their old ways. 
 

It's correct, that it is the coach job to rectify this, but he is changing the mindset of them, and it obviously takes time. 
 

Maybe in the long run, the players we have, can't play the kind of hockey Tocchet want, and heads may roll, but we haven't been as bad as yesterdday during the spell of average hockey. 

 

And I have noticed a fair few posters crawling out from under their rocks to start posting, slagging of the team, the coaching staff or senior management. Posters that never posts after a win. 
 

That suggests to me, they are waiting for the team to fail, and I can only speculate, as to why that is. 

 

I personally think its because they either don't like the management, the coaching staff or are blatant trolls, enjoying the misery of a very loyal and tired fan base. 
 

A few people here are still unhappy with Horvat been the guy traded away instead of Miller, but they should all remember, that Horvat was offered a deal after Millers deal, but he said no and moved on. 
I am very greatful, we didn't sign Bo to the deal he got with Islanders, and I am also in general happy with Miller and his contract, as he is often the driver of this train. 
 

The only question slowly developing for me is if Peteys start was a flash in the pan, and he now have found his natural level, or something else is wrong.

He is a shadow of himself just now with little to no confidence. 
This matters, when the future of this team and his contract is being looked upon. 
 

Team was easily man handled yesterday, and lost all over the ice. However, it happens...

 

The fact, we looked like, we were in dire need of a bigger rugged player(s) up front, that could play on either of the two top lines, was nothing new and has been discussed several times here. 
 

Now it remains to be seen if Petey and Co. Can roll up their sleeves and get back to winning in these sort of games.
Otherwise JR/PA won't hessitate making changes. 
Nevertheless they need to be given time to prove if they can hack it or not. 
 

Again it was one game in which they looked really bad. 
 

Fun fact, I remember the team under AV going through the same issues, and there were several Fire AV threads at the time, together with trade the Sedins for chopped liver, Burrows do we need him, Hansen suck, and Fire Gilles...

 

Baby steps and maybe give them some leeway before jumping over the cliff edge or giving them all the knife. 
 

That how I see it, but thats just me... 

Maybe a blind fan, but a fan nevertheless...

[spook007]

5 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

…i’d jump off that ledge, it looks so beautiful…sorry I live up north no water like that up here

 

You should make the ledge scarier…this is way too enticing!! I wanna go to Mexico now spook…thx!

Cheers amigo. 
 

Couldn't find a scarier one , and yes the waters around Mexico are beautiful. 

[Attila Umbrus]

2 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Somebody has to take 5 minutes of their time and explain to me how Blueger isn't a waste of a contract spot right now. He has been noticeable in the worst way for me for quite some time. 

He’s a 4th line center playing in a 3rd line center spot…and looking like it.

 

But I do think he’s keeping his head above water for the most part. He just isn’t very dynamic with the puck. Once Sutr is back he will start to loom better

[Attila Umbrus]

1 hour ago, AmyTheGma said:

Silver lining in this stretch is it gives management a lot of leverage in the Pettersson negotiations.  There is no way he is worth anywhere close to 12 million per year if this lasts much longer.  I almost think this play could be a the stress of worrying about that contract.  Sometimes when you gamble you lose.  Maybe he settles for  8.5 million Miller sort of contract and then he can be the good guy and relax and just play.  

Agreed, if he settles into a 8.5-9 mil contract then we have more room to surround him with better players. There is no way he is worth more than Miller right now. 
 

Petey needs a power forward on his line. That will take some of the physical load off of him. Mik isn’t physical but is defensively sound. Kuz just looks like a passenger. We have too many small skilled forwards, one of Garland, Hoglander, or Kuz need to go. And I’m honestly leaning towards Kuz because at least Hogs and Garland can play lower down on the line up. Kuz is a waste of a line up spot if he can’t play in the top 6.

 

I love his personality, but business is business. With his contract he’s definitely the easiest to trade and he has the most trade value as well to land a bigger forward.

[Tank]

back to squre one. we can't beat the strong team....

[AmyTheGma]

1 minute ago, Attila Umbrus said:

Agreed, if he settles into a 8.5-9 mil contract then we have more room to surround him with better players. There is no way he is worth more than Miller right now. 
 

Petey needs a power forward on his line. That will take some of the physical load off of him. Mik isn’t physical but is defensively sound. Kuz just looks like a passenger. We have too many small skilled forwards, one of Garland, Hoglander, or Kuz need to go. And I’m honestly leaning towards Kuz because at least Hogs and Garland can play lower down on the line up. Kuz is a waste of a line up spot if he can’t play in the top 6.

 

I love his personality, but business is business. With his contract he’s definitely the easiest to trade and he has the most trade value as well to land a bigger forward.

Well said, I agree with all of this!

[spook007]

9 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

That is a losers mentality 

All your negative posts after a piss poor game is a loser mentality. 
 

You just show up, when the team is losing, and I have a hard time believing you are actually a Canucks fan. 
 

I don't remember ever seeing a positive post from you. Not sure why, and I may be wrong, but thats how you 500 posts here in the PGT feels. 

[stawns]

1 hour ago, Bob Long said:

 

Omg that's some hilarious revisionist history there. 

How so?

[higgyfan]

Canucks were in way over their heads last night playing against the SC Champs, who

had their best game in the last 10.  Vegas schooled our team in every positive aspect

in the game.

 

I can understand the huge disappointment for fans who have been hanging onto the notion

that the Canucks are a contender.  The original plan (still the current plan), was for

the team to grow into a contender in 2-3yrs.  The management wanted the team to make

the playoffs this season (and next), so they can get the much-needed playoff experience.

 

Over this timeframe, the management has added significant changes to the roster and will

continue this process moving forward.  So far, I think they are doing a good job; especially

considering the salary cap issues throughout the league.  I believe this management and

coaching team are well aware of what it takes to be a contender and have a clear vision

of how to get there.

 

I still think this team will make the playoffs this year and if they stay relatively healthy, might

even get into the 2nd round (depending on the competition).

 

Take yourself back to last March.   If we were told that the Canucks would have a solid chance

to make the playoffs in 2024.  I think we would have been ecstatic.

 

 

[PhillipBlunt]

Just now, higgyfan said:

Canucks were in way over their heads last night playing against the SC Champs, who

had their best game in the last 10.  Vegas schooled our team in every positive aspect

in the game.

 

I can understand the huge disappointment for fans who have been hanging onto the notion

that the Canucks are a contender.  The original plan (still the current plan), was for

the team to grow into a contender in 2-3yrs.  The management wanted the team to make

the playoffs this season (and next), so they can get the much-needed playoff experience.

 

Over this timeframe, the management has added significant changes to the roster and will

continue this process moving forward.  So far, I think they are doing a good job; especially

considering the salary cap issues throughout the league.  I believe this management and

coaching team are well aware of what it takes to be a contender and have a clear vision

of how to get there.

 

I still think this team will make the playoffs this year and if they stay relatively healthy, might

even get into the 2nd round (depending on the competition).

 

Take yourself back to last March.   If we were told that the Canucks would have a solid chance

to make the playoffs in 2024.  I think we would have been ecstatic.

 

 

Good perspective. I liken it to that the Canucks have all the ability and tools but now need to learn how to wield it properly. They'll get there. Maybe not everyone, but they'll get there.

[Rip The Mesh]

9 hours ago, Jaimito said:

 

Good day for bonding, figuring what went wrong and making sure they realize, home games are generally, just as difficult as when you're on the road.

Vegas just isn't all that good. They've been looking ordinary of late, not including last night, where we handed them one. there are more game with them later,

hope a major lesson was learned. 

[TheGuardian]

2 hours ago, Boudrias said:

he boys struggled, mostly thru the neutral zone. The Meyers penalty and resulting PP goal was a killer. I thought the Canucks were building early in the 3rd. There are different ways of looking at this loss. I think it sends a message to the players that RT can verbalize but self analysis probably confirms. Miller's post game was really aware and bang on

Myers penalty was a bull shite call. Vegas player leaned into and fell against him. Myers didn't even initiate contact.

[Rip The Mesh]

4 minutes ago, Rip The Mesh said:

9 hours ago, Jaimito said:

 

Good day for bonding, figuring what went wrong and making sure they realize, home games are generally, just as difficult as when you're on the road.

Vegas just isn't all that good. They've been looking ordinary of late, not including last night, where we handed them one. there are more game with them later,

hope a major lesson was learned. 

Expand  

Good day for bonding, figuring what went wrong and making sure they realize, home games are generally, just as difficult as when you're on the road.

Vegas just isn't all that good. They've been looking ordinary of late, not including last night, where we handed them one. there are more game with them later,

hope a major lesson was learned. 

[PhillipBlunt]

While I found the game......let's call it.....lacking, I'm looking forward to seeing how Tocchet adjusts the roster for Calgary and beyond. It'll help that Zadorov will be playing, which will strengthen the defense, and make Demko's net and its surrounding environs a very hostile place. Myers seems to be slipping into his more boneheaded self lately, so being able to potentially replace his size, and then some, is helpful. 

[coolboarder]

Be happy that we get to scout and see what is working and not working and improve at that, maybe a tinkering here and there.  The biggest issue that the Canucks have is slow start to every game and this is a step into a learning process of not taking the game for granted.  Maybe manage their tense emotion into positive one.  Playoff games will be very tense and the Canucks was so tense that they weren't themselves.  Expect the struggles come playoff time.  If they get loose come playoff game, watch out.  It will be a good understanding on how they handle the pressure.   I thought they passed the Rangers and Stars game and I can see them getting back to that type of game sooner rather than later.

[HorvatToBaertschi]

30 minutes ago, Attila Umbrus said:

He’s a 4th line center playing in a 3rd line center spot…and looking like it.

 

But I do think he’s keeping his head above water for the most part. He just isn’t very dynamic with the puck. Once Sutr is back he will start to loom better

So why aren't we playing Lafferty or Aman in that spot instead? Seems a bit odd to force Blueger into a role that he clearly is not fit for. Garland and Joshua have shown enough chemistry together that who the C is doesn't really matter. Blueger is bringing that line down heavily in the offensive zone, and I'm constantly shaking my head at his decision making when on attack. Aman and Joshua have great chemistry already, they were terrific together last year.  You can easily shake up the lines that aren't working by applying the following;

 

Hoglander-Pettersson-Mikheyev

Kuzmenko-Miller-Boeser

Joshua-Aman-Garland

PDG-Blueger-Lafferty

 

This just seems too obvious for me...

Edited December 1, 2023 by HorvatToBaertschi

[Gurn]

Putting Petey with Miller would be disastrous for this team.

We no longer have Horvat to be the #2 center.

running a 'super line' with  only 3rd and 4rth/5th line centers would get the team slaughtered.

 

Things gone wrong, imo.

Too much ice time- and mainly it is the type of 'too much time' to Hughes and Hronek. I'm still in favour of splitting those two up, so more minutes are covered by the pair of them apart, than together.

Petey has a wrist injury, I believe. Saw footage of him adjusting some tape on his wrist a couple games back.

Miller was not great over the last few games, and was poor defensively last night.

PDG-nice story, but unfortunately he is a short book and he's reaching the concluding pages. Not his fault- he is what he is, a 4rth liner that can play 3rd line for a bit.

Still too many passes from behind our net, to in front of our net, expecting a Canuck to make a clearance pas from there.

5 Canucks at our net- not one turns around to check the Vegas player- cranial cramps happen; but the better teams bury those types of mistakes.

Kuzemenko- back to being occasionally benched; and his shooting percentage, as expected, has returned to a more normal rate.

 

Things going right.

Demko is healthy and playing well, maybe had 2 'rough' games all season

De Smith has been a very good back up.

Hog is playing well, looks like a solid 3rd liner with possible 1st line up side.

For the most part the over all D, by al the team has been better- but the screw ups are killers against elite teams.

Still giving up too many 'high danger' chances.

 

Over all- wildcard team-fighting for a wildcard spot, with the advantage of those banked points from the hot streak.

Brock is having a great season, scoring wise, and has been better, over his whole game.

[Attila Umbrus]

1 minute ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

So why aren't we playing Lafferty or Aman in that spot instead? Seems a bit odd to force Blueger into a role that he clearly is not fit for. Garland and Joshua have shown enough chemistry together that who the C is doesn't really matter. Blueger is bringing that line down heavily in the offensive zone, and I'm constantly shaking my head at his decision making when on attack. Aman and Joshua have great chemistry already, they were terrific together last year.  You can easily shake up the lines that aren't working but doing this;

 

Hoglander-Pettersson-Mikheyev

Kuzmenko-Miller-Boeser

Joshua-Aman-Garland

PDG-Blueger-Lafferty

 

This just seems too obvious for me...

I don’t think Aman has looked great since his 1st game. Pretty invisible out there. Lafferty isn’t great at faceoffs either. So I wouldn’t want him in the 3c spot. They’re kinda stuck with Blueger as 3c till Sutr gets back. He’s the best bad option they got…imo

[Ballisticsports]

3 hours ago, HorvatToBaertschi said:

Somebody has to take 5 minutes of their time and explain to me how Blueger isn't a waste of a contract spot right now. He has been noticeable in the worst way for me for quite some time. 

I could tell you the real stars for Vancouver against the Golden Knights were their third line of Dakota Joshua, Teddy Bleuger and Conor Garland. During their 9:40 of ice time together, the Canucks held a 10-4 advantage in scoring chances and a 5-2 advantage in high-danger scoring chances. The only problem is that, once again, they couldn't convert those chances into goals

 

[Belmont]

Think we need to put the Hronek + Hughes experiment on the PP to rest for a while.

 

Our PP hasn’t looked as agile as it used to do with four forwards… please go back 

[CanucksJay]

2 hours ago, JayDangles said:

I'm one of the people whose being labeled as "negative". But I'm saying the same thing you are about pk, pp and 5on5 issues. The only difference is I'm pointing these things out during the game, when other people's emotions are high so they get upset easier.

I admit I post less when the team wins or plays well... but lately that's not happening so I guess I'm posting more.

 

I feel that I'm being very objective. I'm not hating on the team or players because I'm emotionally unstable. I'm pointing out issues I'm seeing, and the same issues are showing up night after night unfixed. Mostly to do with the teams lack of compete and energy in games like last night.

It's also because I believe this team can be, and should be better.

To me it's the folks being blindly positive that seem out of touch. Refusing to acknowledge the issues with this team doesn't make them better fans, and getting upset with posters for being frustrated with poor play lately also doesn't help.

 

Fact. Canucks are clearly struggling to get back to their winning ways. Their goals for average has plummeted, their pk has plummeted, their pp has plummeted. We are 4-6 in the last 10. 

 

I think posters have a right to be concerned because we all want playoffs, but are trending quickly in the wrong direction, and the teams chasing us are doing the opposite.

 

 

This was very well written. 

As most cases, arguments probably occur due to communications issues. It's further complicated when it's written on a messaged board because sometimes, things get misconstrued when we are reading and the emotional side of us takes over without giving others the benefit of the doubt in their character or intent. 

I think everything you said is very accurate. 

It should be apparent that the quality of hockey this team has been playing has not been good the past 10 or so games. 

I think this is where different perspectives kick in though. 

Some ppl say, we were never really good and just happened to beat up on weaker teams and took advantage of a soft schedule in the first 15 games. They say we are a wild card team at best. 

Ppl like me say this team Is actually good when healthy but the lack of depth is why we are seeing the current rut. When healthy, we can run with anybody. Is it a coincidence that our slide started when Soucy went down?  We needed to dress both Juulsen and Friedman in our top 6? That means Hughes had to play 28+min a night? 

Myers and Cole started to have to carry their pairings and we're seeing them make more and more mistakes? 

Am I being a blind homer if I think the trade for Zadorov as well as Soucy and Suter coming back will bring us back into our old form? 

 

I think lack of depth on D is what killed us recently. Maybe it's semantics. If lack of depth is the reason why some people say this isn't a good team, maybe they have a point. 

We needed every player to be healthy because as soon as there was an injury, all the ugly holes were exposed. 

Adding Z was a much needed move. 

 

However , I'm reading things like we only won our first 15 games because we "snuck up" on other teams and now they are ready for us. 

Well you know what? It'll be interesting to see what happens when we inject Zadorov into the mix and Soucy, Suter return from injuries. 

 

We can no longer "sneak up" on other teams so I guess the scoreboard will speak for itself. 

 

If they are who I think they are, I think they'll go on another run soon. 

 

Soon, we'll find out which side is correct about this team. 

 

 

[CanucksJay]

5 minutes ago, Ballisticsports said:

I could tell you the real stars for Vancouver against the Golden Knights were their third line of Dakota Joshua, Teddy Bleuger and Conor Garland. During their 9:40 of ice time together, the Canucks held a 10-4 advantage in scoring chances and a 5-2 advantage in high-danger scoring chances. The only problem is that, once again, they couldn't convert those chances into goals

 

Suter hopefully comes back soon. I feel like he has better finish than Bleuger and as a result, the line will probably covert more goals on the chances they create. 

[higgyfan]

3 minutes ago, CanucksJay said:

Suter hopefully comes back soon. I feel like he has better finish than Bleuger and as a result, the line will probably covert more goals on the chances they create. 

 

He is also a huge part of the PK.  Losing Suter and Soucy has been tough on the defensive aspects

of the team.  Z will help for now, but the team really need the 2 injured players back on the ice.

[CanucksJay]

3 minutes ago, higgyfan said:

 

He is also a huge part of the PK.  Losing Suter and Soucy has been tough on the defensive aspects

of the team.  Z will help for now, but the team really need the 2 injured players back on the ice.

Yeah 

 

If anything, the recent injuries and the resulting losses showed that we are a pretty fragile team. We lost a 4D and a 3C. I think really good teams still find a way to win when missing those pieces. 

Imagine Hughes got hurt. We'd be a basement team.