Where do we go from here/ Bear, do we still need him?

[Hammertime]

9 hours ago, Miss Korea said:

 

A power forward, eh?  Those do not grow from trees.  You'd have to find a team that has given up and willing to trade such an asset for picks.  And the price will be significant if he's a good player.

 

There are guys on teams that haven't given up yet.  Evander Kane is likely available.  Lawson Crouse is likely not (but if he is, he will cost an arm and a leg).  Tyler Bertuzzi is likely not available.

 

That leaves with you with free agents and Josh Anderson, who has been hot garbage this season - Tristan Jarry has more goals than him.  You have... Eric Staal who is washed.  You have... Corey Perry!  He is technically available.

 

The cost of power forwards is extremely high.  Ryan O'Reilly cost a 1st, 2nd, 3rd and a prospect (+Hockey Gaud) as a rental.  Tyler Bertuzzi cost a 1st and a 5th as a rental.  Tanner Jeannot cost Tampa their entire draft class.  Just keep that price tag in mind.

I'd settle for prime Tanner Pearson.  We're one 20g 40-50 pt grinder away from being a legitimately good team. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Hammertime

[Biff Tannen]

17 hours ago, aGENT said:

Why would any team sign a guy that can't play yet, and either have unusable cap on their books, or deal with the headache of LTIR... For nothing?

 

I don't actually disagree but since it looks like we're gonna spend the season in LTIR anyway, would it actually be much of a headache? It would also get around the problem of prorating the contract. Makes me think there's probably a rule against it.

 

Did @mll remain on the bridge with @Vintage Canuck? Maybe they were on Franco's payroll too.

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Biff Tannen

[kettlevalley]

15 hours ago, Pears said:

The only thing Anderson has on Garland is size. Their career stats are very similar so to say Anderson is far superior is disingenuous and an incredibly lazy take. 

Comparing their stats is less a lazy take then watch them play?  Anderson does a lot away from the puck and thus why he plays up the line up and Garland plays down the line up. 

 

Personally I think Pods will get called up around the TDL and be our Anderson though.  Much more comparable player.  Bigger, faster, and playing like a PWF in the AHL.  

[IBatch]

37 minutes ago, kettlevalley said:

Comparing their stats is less a lazy take then watch them play?  Anderson does a lot away from the puck and thus why he plays up the line up and Garland plays down the line up. 

 

Personally I think Pods will get called up around the TDL and be our Anderson though.  Much more comparable player.  Bigger, faster, and playing like a PWF in the AHL.  

Garland does draw penalties which creates some balance given we also take penalties going with a bigger, more balanced D.   Agree with the best case ... Next time Podz comes up, let's hope it's the last time - and that's because he forces someone out. 

[EdgarM]

23 hours ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

If we do sign him I think people will be surprised at how poor he is if he's expected to be part of winning hockey team. It was pretty easy last year with no expectations when he was contributing to one of the worst defense's in the history of the NHL.

I think this management group is looking a lot farther then having depth, they are looking at building a team built for the playoffs, this does not include mediocre or smallish players. Sure if we are stuck at the deadline with no other options, but I dont't think we are coveting Bear or Kessel like many are suggesting. 

You look at what we have acquired this year and those two just don't fit the bill.

[Pickly]

Obviously adding a player like Bear mid season is a huge bonus as it not only addresses depth but it pushes guys like Juulsen and Myers further down the depth chart which is a huge plus. Myers is best suited at this point playing sheltered 3rd pair minutes and Juulsen shouldn’t even be out there if this team is to keep pace with the top dogs in the West. 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Pickly

[Gawdzukes]

10 hours ago, EdgarM said:

I think this management group is looking a lot farther then having depth, they are looking at building a team built for the playoffs, this does not include mediocre or smallish players. Sure if we are stuck at the deadline with no other options, but I dont't think we are coveting Bear or Kessel like many are suggesting. 

You look at what we have acquired this year and those two just don't fit the bill.

 

Exactly. Good for depth if nothing else comes along but I don't think he's a key target or piece moving forward. Kessel might be the only upgrade we can afford. It depends on how aggressive they are going to be in regards to this year. Like Bear, 1 year, 1 mil, no expectations or guarantees. Sure, why not, lol?

[IBatch]

Signing Bear really comes down to how he did with his re-hab.   If he's ready to go, for sure use what we've got left.   If he isn't, then maybe wait.   Ferland, Hamonic, Dickinson, Sutters last deal.   Want to avoid any sort of stuff like that (yes all were different...Sutter was a weird one, paying one million just in case he's ok to play).   

 

Can't use a WAR card, and expect him to play with Hughes and Hronek slots down.    With 4 lefties now when healthy, one of those guys will be playing the right side. 

 

QHs, Cole, Soucy, Zadorov.  

 

Hronek ?? (one of them) Myers.  

 

Have no issues with adding Bear as the 7th D, but have no illusions that is exactly where he will go either when healthy.   

 

Seriously doubt that Bear is going to play with QHs.    He won't.   Unless Hronek goes down, then yes maybe.   Think TO might be desperate enough to sign Bear as well.    

 

Soucy Myers was a good third pairing but didnt get enough sample time either.    Soucy Bear?  Well maybe it could better.   Who knows.   If Allvin and co sign him, that would be a solid move, as long as he's really ready to go. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by IBatch

[Kevin Biestra]

 

[Northern_Nuck]

I’ve been watching now carefully and to tell you the truth, Tyler Myers on a lot of nights has a play that results in a goal against, if not 2/night. Whether it be a give away, going out of position or taking a really bad mindless penalty. 
  If I had the opportunity I’d say trade Myers to maybe a Chicago or something… someone who needs the cap to stay around the floor. And bring in Bear(someone who’s an even player) or someone similar who’s capable of being a reliable 4/5th D man. 

[TheGuardian]

55 minutes ago, Northern_Nuck said:

I’ve been watching now carefully and to tell you the truth, Tyler Myers on a lot of nights has a play that results in a goal against, if not 2/night. Whether it be a give away, going out of position or taking a really bad mindless penalty. 
  If I had the opportunity I’d say trade Myers to maybe a Chicago or something… someone who needs the cap to stay around the floor. And bring in Bear(someone who’s an even player) or someone similar who’s capable of being a reliable 4/5th D man. 

Got the blinders on?

Your math is faulty.

If Myers is on for goals then it is close to 2 FOR for every ONE against.

Tied for the 4th BEST plus minus numbers, 3rd best defence? Best non PP defeneceman!

 

So many posters have drank the koolaid. I get it, most didn't like his cap hit but that is on Benning, not Myers. His play is again on Benning leaving him to have to play beyond his comfort level. Look at the partners he has had, name any of the 22 defencemen.

 

Don't be simple and just follow the herd, look into WHY he might not be the end all, be all, in the position.

 

In the league his numbers are better than half way over the same number of games.

 

Myers started here with some of the media crying out about how he wasn't worth 6 million a year and in defence of Benning they blamed the player.

 

Myers has played an honest game, if posters really looked they would see consistency and a player constantly under negative media, fans upset and being asked to play with multiple different partners of dubious levels of skill.

 

Tall players always end up with more penalties just because they are so much bigger, they have to be even more skilled to not get more just because they are bigger.

 

The true worth of Myers hasn't been seen yet because this team has not made the playoffs where the real season starts.

 

He is a very good skater and very fast playing with teams where he had to be the number one defensive dman all the time.

 

Many here probably think Cole is much better, but he has been on the ice for more goals against, taken more penalties and has a worse plus/minus one quarter the points etc ....

 

Many are convinced the Bear is the golden answer on defence, really? Luke Schenn got 21 points playing with Hughes, Bear got 16 points and they couldn't put Myers there because he HAD to play on the PK and with newbies. 

 

Bear has been replaced with Hronek.

 

The great new coach wants BIG defencemen, BIG!

 

Bear hasn't even declared himself healthy enough.

 

Bear isn't going to sign for peanuts, likely as much as his last contract.

 

Vancouver will not be the only suitor, there are teams with injury problems.

 

Bear Canuck career is 61 games.

 

In 5 years with the Canucks Myers is -5, Hughes is just plus 9, OEL was -19 and after that just a parade of players most matched up with Myers.

 

IMO save the cap space to enhance the team for the playoffs unless the team opens up more cap space before January 4th by trading Boeser and/or Garland. Then sign Bear BUT don't get the coach pi$$ed off by trading away WHAT HE WANTS AND LIKES.

 

Myers will sign for much less if he wants to stay here where his family has grown roots and his minutes will go down making his game easier. If reduced minutes help Hughes and Hronek isn't the same true for him? Only for him this should have happened years ago but BENNING didn't want that because he had become a lightening rod so the media and fans looked at the player and not the Architect. He isn't Erkisson whose production fell off a cliff, his stayed predictable and steady and mentored the most defence players.

 

Save the cap space and get some playoff nastiness. Playoff experience. Playoff size. The team is making the playoffs, build a playoff team. Look at Vegas and Seattle, huge defence. Especially Seattle, no real Pettersson's, Demko's, Hughes' or Hronek's not even Miller's but they had a huge defence. Since they lost Soucy their goals against has gone up and wins gone down. They are/were that closely balanced.

 

Sign a experienced veteran to play a depth role. 

Starting Defence may be done Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Zadorov, Myers, Cole, Brisebios, Wolanin, Irwin, Juulsen, McWard all have played in the NHL, that is the best D depth maybe ever. Even Wilander and Brutz might be available to make an appearance.  

Edited December 4, 2023 by TheGuardian

[EdgarM]

On 12/4/2023 at 9:36 AM, TheGuardian said:

Got the blinders on?

Your math is faulty.

If Myers is on for goals then it is close to 2 FOR for every ONE against.

Tied for the 4th BEST plus minus numbers, 3rd best defence? Best non PP defeneceman!

 

So many posters have drank the koolaid. I get it, most didn't like his cap hit but that is on Benning, not Myers. His play is again on Benning leaving him to have to play beyond his comfort level. Look at the partners he has had, name any of the 22 defencemen.

 

Don't be simple and just follow the herd, look into WHY he might not be the end all, be all, in the position.

 

In the league his numbers are better than half way over the same number of games.

 

Myers started here with some of the media crying out about how he wasn't worth 6 million a year and in defence of Benning they blamed the player.

 

Myers has played an honest game, if posters really looked they would see consistency and a player constantly under negative media, fans upset and being asked to play with multiple different partners of dubious levels of skill.

 

Tall players always end up with more penalties just because they are so much bigger, they have to be even more skilled to not get more just because they are bigger.

 

The true worth of Myers hasn't been seen yet because this team has not made the playoffs where the real season starts.

 

He is a very good skater and very fast playing with teams where he had to be the number one defensive dman all the time.

 

Many here probably think Cole is much better, but he has been on the ice for more goals against, taken more penalties and has a worse plus/minus one quarter the points etc ....

 

Many are convinced the Bear is the golden answer on defence, really? Luke Schenn got 21 points playing with Hughes, Bear got 16 points and they couldn't put Myers there because he HAD to play on the PK and with newbies. 

 

Bear has been replaced with Hronek.

 

The great new coach wants BIG defencemen, BIG!

 

Bear hasn't even declared himself healthy enough.

 

Bear isn't going to sign for peanuts, likely as much as his last contract.

 

Vancouver will not be the only suitor, there are teams with injury problems.

 

Bear Canuck career is 61 games.

 

In 5 years with the Canucks Myers is -5, Hughes is just plus 9, OEL was -19 and after that just a parade of players most matched up with Myers.

 

IMO save the cap space to enhance the team for the playoffs unless the team opens up more cap space before January 4th by trading Boeser and/or Garland. Then sign Bear BUT don't get the coach pi$$ed off by trading away WHAT HE WANTS AND LIKES.

 

Myers will sign for much less if he wants to stay here where his family has grown roots and his minutes will go down making his game easier. If reduced minutes help Hughes and Hronek isn't the same true for him? Only for him this should have happened years ago but BENNING didn't want that because he had become a lightening rod so the media and fans looked at the player and not the Architect. He isn't Erkisson whose production fell off a cliff, his stayed predictable and steady and mentored the most defence players.

 

Save the cap space and get some playoff nastiness. Playoff experience. Playoff size. The team is making the playoffs, build a playoff team. Look at Vegas and Seattle, huge defence. Especially Seattle, no real Pettersson's, Demko's, Hughes' or Hronek's not even Miller's but they had a huge defence. Since they lost Soucy their goals against has gone up and wins gone down. They are/were that closely balanced.

 

Sign a experienced veteran to play a depth role. 

Starting Defence may be done Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Zadorov, Myers, Cole, Brisebios, Wolanin, Irwin, Juulsen, McWard all have played in the NHL, that is the best D depth maybe ever. Even Wilander and Brutz might be available to make an appearance.  

Finally! someone who gets it.Thanks Guardian. I was going to explain how we are building a defense like Vegas but Bear's name keeps popping up. I noticed at the end of last season player interviews that Bear didn't look too happy. I am pretty sure they told him back then he was not in the plans moving forward.

[CanucksJay]

I'm not sure about Bear. We have a ton of 4-5D.

Cole, Soucy, Myers, Zadorov. 

Bear would be 7D with Friedman and Juulsen being 8 and 9.

We're missing a bonafide 3D the can move up to top pairing sometimes. 

If they can unload Myers with no cap retention and use the remaining cap to get a true high end talent on D, would we see more success this playoffs? 

Friedman, Juulsen and Wolanin then can then be the black aces heading into the playoffs. 

Alternative is we pull a Tonya Harding on Myers and put him on LTIR and acquire another D with 8-9m cap space. Myers then comes back for playoffs and we have amazing depth. 

[Reznor]

Bear is a decent player, but doesn't move the yardsticks in any given direction. Given his play this year and obvious cap savings aside, I think I'd rather play Myers over Bear.

 

Here are our mainstays:

Hughes, Hronek, Soucy, Zadorov, Cole. With Myers, that's all 6. The rest of the guys like Wolanin, Friedman, Juulsen, Hirose and McWard are depth options to fill in for injuries. We really don't near Bear once Soucy comes back, though he could be a decent fill-in in the meantime and would bolster our depth just that much more for the playoffs. I imagine for a partial season and the unknown after returning from injury, he'd likely come cheap - especially on a simple remainder-of-the-year contract. That may be the most prudent move.

Next season though, I do believe there is still work to do. I feel we still need a higher profile defenseman to round out the top 4 - preferably one who maybe has limited time left in his contract. Reason being that by maturity, we should have at least one of Willander, D-Petey, or even Brzustewicz who should be able to slot in and contribute at a solid rate, while sporting a low cap hit. Maybe even Hirose or Mcward for that matter...