[PGT] Canucks at Flames - F*** CBC Edition

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, aGENT said:

Even when he slides over, normally he remains pretty square to the shooter. He was fucking turned sideways there.

 

we do see goalies do that on a total cross crease push for a one timer though.......makes the saves and then the momentum spins him after.

[DeNiro]

Just now, -dlc- said:

Edition 57 of "What's Myers Doing?"

 

I rarely rag on our players and have earned my homer status quite rightfully. But sometimes I just go "wth is he thinking?". Petey tackle, Highsticking Miller. How many strikes before you're out? I HATE how he tries to play in front of Demko....I feel he's be MUCH more effective clearing guys out front the front of the net rather than....trying to be goaltender #1 with Demko backing him up. He gets in the damn way more than anything.

He’s just not very mobile unless it’s straight line and he often gets caught out too long and looks gassed.

 

He seems more prone to mental gaffes when he’s tired than some.

[-dlc-]

54 minutes ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Again you agree with me the balance has to be struck. Where we disagree is it's not improving it doesn't look like they are working at it. It looks to me the team is regressing. 

It's not improving?

 

We're winning games and that's not regression. No matter what you see on the ice, I see 2 points. They matter in the end. And that was an important divisional game on the road that they took last night. It wasn't picture perfect but grinding out a win is every bit as important (maybe more so). It's not always going to be perfectly executed because you have another team that has a say in that. You have dynamics that DO factor in despite some ignoring them ("excuses" aka facts).

 

I think your expectations are too high and you have to give credit where it's due. This team is winning games they would've lost last year. They're learning new tricks.

 

But sure, let's sell the "they're probably not going to win the cup" story that fast forwards to project the end game and likely is true. For 31 teams. I prefer to live in the moment and enjoy the ride (which I'm very much doing....going to the game on the 14th). 

 

 

[stawns]

6 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

It’s a reaction play, it’s not always gonna be perfect.

 

You could tell at the end of the game he wasn’t happy with his game. I’m sure he’ll work on it.

 

I thought he was more out of position on the first goal than the last one.

[-dlc-]

3 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

He’s just not very mobile unless it’s straight line and he often gets caught out too long and looks gassed.

 

He seems more prone to mental gaffes when he’s tired than some.

That's 100% true. He sort of reminds me of the Tin Man at times.

 

I like him and pull for him to do well...he could be a great asset. But these moments (especially in front of the net) are glaring to me. 

[Silent Man]

On 12/3/2023 at 12:16 PM, CanuckFanForever said:

all it looks like to me is you agree with me the Structure isn't there and the good players are winning despite Tocchet's system. I agree but it is not sustainable long term and that is the big picture 

 

Big Picture,

 

Is making the playoffs but being 1 and done considered success in you mind when we currently have 5 of the top 25 leading scorers

I am not an expert, but what I can see so far regarding system - RT an Co have fixed Canucks "transition defense" if I may use a basketball term here- I can't see so many odd man rushes as in the past years. And the good transitional defense makes it harder for opposition to gain our D-zone

Once opposition in our D-zone, Canucks collapsed and make sure not to overcommit to the puck courier.

Other thing I noticed this season- our break outs are much cleaner and safer, than in the past- if there is no play in place- just off the glass to the neutral zone.

Just mine $0.02 

Edited December 5, 2023 by Silent Man

[coolboarder]

2 minutes ago, CanuckFanForever said:

But it is happening game in game out the Canucks are not showing the compete level of a sustainable playoff team

WE have not even played LA yet and I might understand your concern about Vegas but you haven't counted on is Soucy, Suter, and Z which was not in the line-up against Vegas to really assess on any potential series against them with accuracy so you might want to hold your horse with how Canucks will do until a playoff series is done first.   

 

That is why regular season is all about roster adjustments and evaluations in all facet of your team, including a recall from your farm system to see where they might fit in a case of injury to our star players in a playoff series to see which player you need for each role.  If there is any injury to let's say, Hughes, or Petterson, you need to find someone with some skill to fit in a top 6 role from your own prospect and try them in the regular season whenever. 

 

There always a chance of someone in the farm system might be ready for big league and we don't even know yet until they are called up and play in a few games and do really break out of his potential and stay on the team.  That is why we play games.  Some player on the farm don't even have their potential due to many factors, lack of skilled players on his line and if they get a chance to play with skilled players and break out and it's a win by itself.  Burrows is one good example of it, once he get a chance to play with Sedin twins and do break out, it is an improvement by itself. 

 

When you say sustainable, believe it or not, it is sustainable because we do have top scorer and top goaltending and top D pairing on this team and do we really want to show them our hand this early or else they make their adjustment against us in a playoff series and we struggle?   That is why there is 82 games to ensure that right teams are in the playoffs while not showing our hands this early might be a wise move.  There are cases in the past where a team had upper hand in regular season only for them to lose in a playoff series.  Think about it.  Time for you to be optimism about this team.

[kilgore]

3 minutes ago, CanuckFanForever said:

I don;t think the structure was ever taught to them.

 

The team just preformed offensively higher in Oct then anyone one would have expected and that any team could maintain. Nov showed to be more reality for the Canucks and there. Is 2 parts of every season. Before Christmas and after Christmas. Less penalties will be called there for less opportunities for our PP to outscore their problems. Even our PP is coming back to reality. But the PK is still as bad as it always was 

 

So what has Tocc been doing this whole time? And Foote and Gonchar?

 

Why did Tocchet bench Kuz for two games and was working with him one on one?  On what? Why is he always talking about it?

 

And there is no reason to worry about less penalties called in the second half of the season (I'd love to see where you get that stat). But more about each individual game, and the degree of hard nosed forechecking you keep up through those games. In other words, its relative to the team you are playing that night, and you earn your penalty calls for the most part.

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

1 minute ago, kilgore said:

 

So what has Tocc been doing this whole time? And Foote and Gonchar?

 

Why did Tocchet bench Kuz for two games and was working with him one on one?  On what? Why is he always talking about it?

 

And there is no reason to worry about less penalties called in the second half of the season (I'd love to see where you get that stat). But more about each individual game, and the degree of hard nosed forechecking you keep up through those games. In other words, its relative to the team you are playing that night, and you earn your penalty calls for the most part.

That was the topic in my Tread what has Tocchet done for this team. For me it is nothing

[Gurn]

5 minutes ago, CanuckFanForever said:

 

Not going to quote you, but will say I disagree on 2 points

1- regards to Rick not having them ready to play- I think that is more on the team, than the coach. Probably about 80% team 20 % coach.

2- The P.k. is way better than it has been, just a few short months ago.

 

I'm hoping a bit more time off between games and less travel for a couple of weeks can get everyone healthy and back into better play.

So much better to have games 'in the bank' as a buffer for a slump; than to be games behind, and still slumping.

 

End of the season, the Canucks will, imo, end up either 3rd in the division, or in the top wild card spot.

 

ps- please feel free to keep posting, all opinions should be welcome here; despite those that only want to see their opinion, repeated back to them.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

8 hours ago, Crimson JH said:

Yep… that Devil…

 

[Gurn]

11 minutes ago, DeNiro said:

He seems more prone to mental gaffes when he’s tired than some.

His brain is a looonnnggg way from his heart.

Oxygen deprivation is an actual thing.-And the O2 levels are less to start with, at his elevation.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

3 hours ago, Sargon said:

Casablanca 

[stawns]

1 minute ago, CanuckFanForever said:

That was the topic in my Tread what has Tocchet done for this team. For me it is nothing

 

He's defintely brought structure and some discipline, in the first 15 games, for sure.  Somce the Dallas game, he's mostly been talk and maintaining the status quo, regardless of what was happening on the ice........bot of a one trick poiny, with sitting guys as his main tool.  However, I was happy to see him switch up lines and try some different things.  He got by on a hot start, but now he needs to dig deeper into his coach's bag of tricks as the team returns to their expected normal.

[Tocchet.A.Hockey.God]

2 minutes ago, Gurn said:

Not going to quote you, but will say I disagree on 2 points

1- regards to Rick not having them ready to play- I think that is more on the team, than the coach. Probably about 80% team 20 % coach.

2- The P.k. is way better than it has been, just a few short months ago.

 

I'm hoping a bit more time off between games and less travel for a couple of weeks can get everyone healthy and back into better play.

So much better to have games 'in the bank' as a buffer for a slump; than to be games behind, and still slumping.

 

End of the season, the Canucks will, imo, end up either 3rd in the division, or in the top wild card spot.

 

ps- please feel free to keep posting, all opinions should be welcome here; despite those that only want to see their opinion, repeated back to them.

Our Pk is 75% 22nd over all. If it is better it is not due to the Structure it is due to better personnel. Half our defense was AHLers last year. 

 

75% for a team that is 4th or 5th in the league is a joke

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

12 hours ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Don't get me wrong Tocchet could win a Jack Adams trophy.

 

But is 1 and done ok with this fan base in the playoffs. 

[Hairy Kneel]

Losing two good defensive players in Soucy and Suter sent us in a little energy slump. But adding Zeke pumped us back up some and I can't wait to get both Soucy and Suter back. I think as a team we can play better. Tocchet is mixing up lines and Foote and Gonchar are mixing up pairings, so the coaches ate trying to find the right chemistry without Soucy and Suter. They have also been benching guys to find a reset for our players too, which is effective. 

ps I would play DeSmith next game giving Demko 4 days to rest and work with the goal tending coach. Demko will have 3 or 4 tough games coming up, playing every other day.

 

 

 

Edited December 3, 2023 by Hairy Kneel

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

7 minutes ago, CanuckFanForever said:

That was the topic in my Tread what has Tocchet done for this team. For me it is nothing

[Gurn]

8 minutes ago, CanuckFanForever said:

Our Pk is 75% 22nd over all. If it is better it is not due to the Structure it is due to better personnel. Half our defense was AHLers last year. 

 

75% for a team that is 4th or 5th in the league is a joke

So I looked that up, and you are right      https://www.nhl.com/stats/teams?report=penaltykill&reportType=season&seasonFrom=20232024&seasonTo=20232024&gameType=2&filter=gamesPlayed,gte,1&sort=penaltyKillPct&page=0&pageSize=50

24th in the league at 75%

 

I guess the shorthanded goals they've been scoring kind of masked that for me.

Edited December 3, 2023 by Gurn

[-dlc-]

 

[Bob Long]

1 hour ago, Mordekai said:

Yes 

you said trade Myers after signing bear and I said that would leave only bear and hronek as legit rhd. Juulsen and friedman would be other rhd but they aren’t top 6 nhl defenders for a playoff team. Unless I am misunderstanding something here

 

You are forgetting about the 6 mil in cap space 

[kilgore]

3 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

He's defintely brought structure and some discipline, in the first 15 games, for sure.  Somce the Dallas game, he's mostly been talk and maintaining the status quo, regardless of what was happening on the ice........bot of a one trick poiny, with sitting guys as his main tool.  However, I was happy to see him switch up lines and try some different things.  He got by on a hot start, but now he needs to dig deeper into his coach's bag of tricks as the team returns to their expected normal.

It could also be that other teams also have smart coaches, and have studied the way the team operates Tocchet's system, and made their own adjustments.  I could see that Vegas, more than once, intercepted cross ice passes, and anticipated other plays.

 

You are right in that our coaches now need to adapt to the other teams adaptions on us.  They can't sit on their laurels. I think we have a smart enough team of coaches to get ahead of the ball once again.

[Taphouse Canuck]

15 hours ago, Barnstorm said:

Yikes LA with 5 games in hand

[Steamer4GM]

3 minutes ago, Taphouse Canuck said:

Yikes LA with 5 games in hand

No biggie. They win 3/5 and they're 3 points up on us. Nowhere near a stranglehold on the spot. All the guys can do is focus on their own play and getting more wins than losses. We'll be fine

[stawns]

17 minutes ago, kilgore said:

It could also be that other teams also have smart coaches, and have studied the way the team operates Tocchet's system, and made their own adjustments.  I could see that Vegas, more than once, intercepted cross ice passes, and anticipated other plays.

 

You are right in that our coaches now need to adapt to the other teams adaptions on us.  They can't sit on their laurels. I think we have a smart enough team of coaches to get ahead of the ball once again.

 

I think that's the biggest factor in their return to normality for them.  Teams are getting ready for them now