[PGT] Canucks at Flames - F*** CBC Edition

[Bure10Kuzmenko96]

6 minutes ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

Beat the Avs 4-1…

 

Yup

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

3 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

There is an odd collective narcissism about the state of our coaching. 
 

There seems to be a general feeling that somehow Tocchet’s book has been found out and he needs to reach into his bag of tricks to shake things up. 
 

I’m sure every other tortured fan base shares these feelings from game to game. But let’s be real - the book is open on every team. They study tape of each team well in advance. The coaching staff have decided on a system that can consistently deliver results with this in mind. That’s why they say we need to get back to our game and not we need to pull a rabbit out of a hat. We have received the benefits in a tangible way - more wins than others.

 

This is the best team we have had in years and we aren’t in that upper echelon of teams just yet so we will see some ups and downs. If our downs are 0.500 hockey at this point then we’re drastically better than last year.

 

Fortunately, we’ve built ourselves a comfortable lead and I suspect we will get rolling again soon here as we get healthier. 
 

But for real, energy vampire CanuckFanForever should be set to ignore. I’m all for different opinions and dialogue but this is someone who revels in the misery of prognostication. 

[RinkonRenfrew]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Garland is eating too much cap for where he fits on our club. If by the good graces of the hockey Gods we could move him out (all of his cap gone) then a guy like pods could play those minutes and we would be better for it. 

Only if we use that cap to improve our club. As it stands, Garland is a very effective 3rd liner. I know you don’t care for him, but he’s part of an effective line right now. 

 

I like him, but yeah, his cap is too high and we could use another bigger body i our top 9.

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

1 minute ago, Bure10Kuzmenko96 said:

Yup

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

Only if we use that cap to improve our club. As it stands, Garland is a very effective 3rd liner. I know you don’t care for him, but he’s part of an effective line right now. 

 

I like him, but yeah, his cap is too high and we could use another bigger body i our top 9.

To be honest Garlsnd is not at all an effective player. He’s a top on the ice. He provides nothing beyond a few seconds of puck control. He can’t pk and he is not a pp guy. At 5’s he’s a liability because he’s so easy to play against. 

[RinkonRenfrew]

4 minutes ago, Alflives said:

To be honest Garlsnd is not at all an effective player. He’s a top on the ice. He provides nothing beyond a few seconds of puck control. He can’t pk and he is not a pp guy. At 5’s he’s a liability because he’s so easy to play against. 

At 5’s his line with Joshua has a significant shot advantage and does a great job. i’m pretty sure he draws quite a few penalties too by being small and spinning with the puck.  Not 5 million worth, and a big guy who can grind down the opposition might be more effective, but he’s a canuck and you’re a homer, so try and like him a little until he’s traded. He’s not what you want, but he’s pretty good.

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

At 5’s his line with Joshua has a significant shot advantage and does a great job. i’m pretty sure he draws quite a few penalties too by being small and spinning with the puck.  Not 5 million worth, and a big guy who can grind down the opposition might be more effective, but he’s a canuck and you’re a homer, so try and like him a little until he’s traded. He’s not what you want, but he’s pretty good.

Garlsnd needs to go. Hard for us to build out a winning supporting cast with him eating up five mil. Not a fan of his game. Sadly I think we are stuck with him. Benning! 

[Alflives]

31 minutes ago, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

Typical - Makar mops the floor with our jersey - and conveniently for LA he’s injured - 

 

well… it’s a long season but…

Makar is great. But he relies on being a puck carrier in high collision areas. He really doesn’t see the ice very well. Those guys, sadly, have shorter careers. Likely another knee for him. Surgery? 

[Gawdzukes]

24 minutes ago, GrammaInTheTub said:

There is an odd collective narcissism about the state of our coaching. 
 

There seems to be a general feeling that somehow Tocchet’s book has been found out and he needs to reach into his bag of tricks to shake things up. 
 

I’m sure every other tortured fan base shares these feelings from game to game. But let’s be real - the book is open on every team. They study tape of each team well in advance. The coaching staff have decided on a system that can consistently deliver results with this in mind. That’s why they say we need to get back to our game and not we need to pull a rabbit out of a hat. We have received the benefits in a tangible way - more wins than others.

 

This is the best team we have had in years and we aren’t in that upper echelon of teams just yet so we will see some ups and downs. If our downs are 0.500 hockey at this point then we’re drastically better than last year.

 

Fortunately, we’ve built ourselves a comfortable lead and I suspect we will get rolling again soon here as we get healthier. 
 

But for real, energy vampire CanuckFanForever should be set to ignore. I’m all for different opinions and dialogue but this is someone who revels in the misery of prognostication. 

 

Totally agree. One great aspect is that Tocchet is not going to give up and just become stale. He's completely dedicated to this team as we've seen and I'm sure he will adapt as it becomes necessary. He's also not a dictator type coach and he relies heavily on and wants input from coaches, players, and even management. After the way we've started he deserves some leeway to work on some things and go from there. I mean, hey we could be 11 points out of a playoff spot like we were at this time last year right?

 

Go Nucks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boo misery of prognostication 

[Alflives]

Just now, Gawdzukes said:

 

Totally agree. One great aspect is that Tocchet is not going to give up and just become stale. He's completely dedicated to this team as we've seen and I'm sure he will adapt as it becomes necessary. He's also not a dictator type coach and he relies heavily on and wants input from coaches, players, and even management. After the way we've started he deserves some leeway to work on some things and go from there. I mean, hey we could be 11 points out of a playoff spot like we were at this time last year right?

 

Go Nucks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boo misery of prognostication 

Tocchet knows it’s up to the leadership group in the room to keep the guys accountable. He will keep his nose out of that kind of stuff as much as possible. Hughes, Petey, Miller, Demko, Hronek, Boeser, will keep the rest of the players accountable for playing the right way. It’s why management moved out Bo, OEL, and Pearson. There needed to be a singular and new voice of leadership in the room. 

[stawns]

3 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Totally agree. One great aspect is that Tocchet is not going to give up and just become stale. He's completely dedicated to this team as we've seen and I'm sure he will adapt as it becomes necessary. He's also not a dictator type coach and he relies heavily on and wants input from coaches, players, and even management. After the way we've started he deserves some leeway to work on some things and go from there. I mean, hey we could be 11 points out of a playoff spot like we were at this time last year right?

 

Go Nucks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boo misery of prognostication 

 

While intend to agree, we've also seen Tocchet stay very static through this very inconsistent, sometimes very poor olsy by the team.  When it was clear that lines were not working and stagnating, he didn't do anything other than sit the occassional player.  

 

That said, that's most likely him trying to let them work things out on their own, but they sacrificed some easier points during this stretch while he did that.  I was very happy to see him mix things up, but his refusal to keep hogz down is baffling to me

[Blue]

4 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Totally agree. One great aspect is that Tocchet is not going to give up and just become stale. He's completely dedicated to this team as we've seen and I'm sure he will adapt as it becomes necessary. He's also not a dictator type coach and he relies heavily on and wants input from coaches, players, and even management. After the way we've started he deserves some leeway to work on some things and go from there. I mean, hey we could be 11 points out of a playoff spot like we were at this time last year right?

 

Go Nucks 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Boo misery of prognostication 

That's not how coaches fizzle out though. They fizzle out when they are dedicated to a certain style of play and it stops working. It's easy to get buy-in on systems and styles when it gets results. But when the results start to wane and the coach keeps harping on about the same shit , it gets stale for the players and they tune it out.

 

I hope Tocchet can have some flexability and stay our coach for awhile. But who knows 

[Gawdzukes]

35 minutes ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

Only if we use that cap to improve our club. As it stands, Garland is a very effective 3rd liner. I know you don’t care for him, but he’s part of an effective line right now. 

 

I like him, but yeah, his cap is too high and we could use another bigger body i our top 9.

 

I've been a big proponent of moving Garland but he's played really well this year I must admit, and has finally found an actual role. Cap is way to much for that role but I agree if we're moving him it should be to improve the team. If we get a decent offer you also have to think about the future though as well. Ultimately I still believe that money will be needed to improve the team in the future unless we move Boeser or something. We are currently a pretty good team but not without some areas that need improvement, like our top/middle 6.

[PistolPete13]

1 hour ago, RinkonRenfrew said:

Sure, but Garland brushing that guy might later develop in to a pp for us.  Special teams are a consideration, and soucy, myers and zad all take more penalties than they deserve due to being big. The team is a good mix imo and i love the combo of the big nuclear options with the scrappy heart and soul smaller guys.  hits that hurt count for a lot. hits that draw retaliation are pretty great too.

I’m a big fan of Garly and what he brings every night. Would be happy to keep him around at the right price. 

[Gawdzukes]

11 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Tocchet knows it’s up to the leadership group in the room to keep the guys accountable. He will keep his nose out of that kind of stuff as much as possible. Hughes, Petey, Miller, Demko, Hronek, Boeser, will keep the rest of the players accountable for playing the right way. It’s why management moved out Bo, OEL, and Pearson. There needed to be a singular and new voice of leadership in the room. 

 

Yeah he's definitely given the room some responsibility and it's great that it's all part of the team effort.

 

9 minutes ago, stawns said:

 

While intend to agree, we've also seen Tocchet stay very static through this very inconsistent, sometimes very poor olsy by the team.  When it was clear that lines were not working and stagnating, he didn't do anything other than sit the occassional player.  

 

That said, that's most likely him trying to let them work things out on their own, but they sacrificed some easier points during this stretch while he did that.  I was very happy to see him mix things up, but his refusal to keep hogz down is baffling to me

 

Yeah I get what you're saying there but I know you are a coach also. You shouldn't necessarily always have radical change when you first face some adversity. Sometimes you have to let the players work through it, and also try to let the system that worked so well earlier work itself out. I don't think you can keep doing the same thing if the mediocre play continues of course, but I can definitely appreciate not wanting to completely revamp everything after the journey to get here. Of course we'll see how it plays out but I think RT will make some changes if needed depending on how things progress. Kind of like the "if it ain't broke" motto.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep hogz down". Do you mean in the AHL or not playing him higher up in the line-up. I don't really have an opinion on that as I can see it from both angles. He's looked good but maybe there is stuff, like practice stuff that we're not privy too. The team is also full of players in weird positions from PDG, to Garland, Lafferty, etc. I could understand him valuing Hogz contribution in the role he is playing and that's why he stays there. It's not like he can swap him with Kuz.

[stawns]

7 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yeah he's definitely given the room some responsibility and it's great that it's all part of the team effort.

 

 

Yeah I get what you're saying there but I know you are a coach also. You shouldn't necessarily always have radical change when you first face some adversity. Sometimes you have to let the players work through it, and also try to let the system that worked so well earlier work itself out. I don't think you can keep doing the same thing if the mediocre play continues of course, but I can definitely appreciate not wanting to completely revamp everything after the journey to get here. Of course we'll see how it plays out but I think RT will make some changes if needed depending on how things progress. Kind of like the "if it ain't broke" motto.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep hogz down". Do you mean in the AHL or not playing him higher up in the line-up. I don't really have an opinion on that as I can see it from both angles. He's looked good but maybe there is stuff, like practice stuff that we're not privy too. The team is also full of players in weird positions from PDG, to Garland, Lafferty, etc. I could understand him valuing Hogz contribution in the role he is playing and that's why he stays there. It's not like he can swap him with Kuz.

Playing him higher in the lineup.  For a team who is struggling to score 5v5 to limit the opportunity of the one guy scoring regularly 5v5, seems strange.  I like Lafferty and, while he looks good on that line, has been significantly outplayed by hogz, imo 

 

I understand why RT is letting them work things out and it's definitely the opposite end of the spectrum from Green, but I'd like to see a little more proactive approach to it.  Letting it fester for 10-12 games was a little too hands off I think 

 

Still, they've managed to play .500 hockey through it, which is a nice change from the last couple years 

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, Gawdzukes said:

 

Yeah he's definitely given the room some responsibility and it's great that it's all part of the team effort.

 

 

Yeah I get what you're saying there but I know you are a coach also. You shouldn't necessarily always have radical change when you first face some adversity. Sometimes you have to let the players work through it, and also try to let the system that worked so well earlier work itself out. I don't think you can keep doing the same thing if the mediocre play continues of course, but I can definitely appreciate not wanting to completely revamp everything after the journey to get here. Of course we'll see how it plays out but I think RT will make some changes if needed depending on how things progress. Kind of like the "if it ain't broke" motto.

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "keep hogz down". Do you mean in the AHL or not playing him higher up in the line-up. I don't really have an opinion on that as I can see it from both angles. He's looked good but maybe there is stuff, like practice stuff that we're not privy too. The team is also full of players in weird positions from PDG, to Garland, Lafferty, etc. I could understand him valuing Hogz contribution in the role he is playing and that's why he stays there. It's not like he can swap him with Kuz.

If I could interject. Hogs makes a lot of mental errors. He’s slow to react to his defensive responsibilities. With the puck (in the o zone) he’s great. But that’s only 5% of his time in the ice. What’s he doing the other 95% of the time? IMHAO Tocchet loves Hogs’ potential and is trying to get the player to that ceiling. And that means Hogs must play smart and the right way to get more ice time, including moving up in the lineup. it’s really hard watching games online (TV) and evaluating what a playing is doing off the puck. The camera follows the puck. 

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

55 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Makar is great. But he relies on being a puck carrier in high collision areas. He really doesn’t see the ice very well. Those guys, sadly, have shorter careers. Likely another knee for him. Surgery? 

Yowzers - has he already have knee problems… reminds me of Bure - his knees got bashed a lot and ended his career

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

10 minutes ago, Alflives said:

If I could interject. Hogs makes a lot of mental errors. He’s slow to react to his defensive responsibilities. With the puck (in the o zone) he’s great. But that’s only 5% of his time in the ice. What’s he doing the other 95% of the time? IMHAO Tocchet loves Hogs’ potential and is trying to get the player to that ceiling. And that means Hogs must play smart and the right way to get more ice time, including moving up in the lineup. it’s really hard watching games online (TV) and evaluating what a playing is doing off the puck. The camera follows the puck. 

A very astute observation…

[Alflives]

Just now, I.AM.THE.WALRUS said:

Yowzers - has he already have knee problems… reminds me of Bure - his knees got bashed a lot and ended his career

Phenomenal player with puck on stick. Best there is right now. But it’s just a recipe for a shortened and injury prone career. And once the knees are gone and the skating is no longer dynamic these guys aren’t passers so they are done. 

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

F - just want us to win a cup ffs…

 

sigh…

 

before I croak 

 

said 
 

every Canuck fan since 1970

Edited December 4, 2023 by I.AM.THE.WALRUS

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

Phenomenal player with puck on stick. Best there is right now. But it’s just a recipe for a shortened and injury prone career. And once the knees are gone and the skating is no longer dynamic these guys aren’t passers so they are done. 

[Taphouse Canuck]

8 hours ago, DeNiro said:

OED: Niggling , adjective: trivial, petty or inconsequential

[I.AM.THE.WALRUS]

29 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Phenomenal player with puck on stick. Best there is right now. But it’s just a recipe for a shortened and injury prone career. And once the knees are gone and the skating is no longer dynamic these guys aren’t passers so they are done. 

Yeah to prolong your career you have to adapt and modify your game for sure… develop your skills and expand your repertoire 

[Gawdzukes]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

Playing him higher in the lineup.  For a team who is struggling to score 5v5 to limit the opportunity of the one guy scoring regularly 5v5, seems strange.  I like Lafferty and, while he looks good on that line, has been significantly outplayed by hogz, imo 

 

I understand why RT is letting them work things out and it's definitely the opposite end of the spectrum from Green, but I'd like to see a little more proactive approach to it.  Letting it fester for 10-12 games was a little too hands off I think 

 

Still, they've managed to play .500 hockey through it, which is a nice change from the last couple years 

 

Ah yeah. Hogs has played well but I think maybe RT sees some things he still needs to work on. Or he could just be bringing him along slowly ... perhaps he doesn't want all the good intensity and forechecking undone by moving him to a goalscoring role. I can understand that he should maybe get a chance but I'm not sure there isn't some reasoning behind it either. Like I said it's not the easiest roster to assemble into a line-up as the parts don't all quite match up correctly.

 

I think we sat through a perfect start of 10ish games and now 10ish that haven't been quite as good. In that sense I understand the approach. I wouldn't have started messing around too much either. The proof will be in the next set of 10 now that we've set a standard and seen both sides of our game. We're still in a real good spot.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Gawdzukes